(Unofficial) Feedback Thread: New Motifs & Outfit Styles

Earrindo

I have been experimenting with the new Motifs/Outfit Styles and wanted to put forward a few thoughts.

First off, the new motifs, including Scalecaller and Fang Lair, seem to actually have been designed to work nicely together, at least moreso than older motifs. This is a good nod at the possibilities with the Outfit system, and I hope going forward new styles and motifs will also be given the same sort of attention.

Secondly, the same problem as I had with the bloodroot forge, dreadhorn, apostle and ebonshadow motifs. Every new motif (save Tsaesci, a gorgeous gem of a motif that is perfect just as it is) is afflicted with the WORST specular maps.
Not a single dye looks good, works well, or is properly saturated because these new motifs, like the previously mentioned ones, are so dang shiny. Colors are washed out at best, and look like saran wrap at worst. I couldn't find a single combination that looked good without using exclusively common dyes, which add the least specularity, but even those can be a toss up.

To be specific;
(I used Ophidian Jade as the test dye. This is a great tester because on leather materials it displays as a lustrous dark teal and on cloth it is a slightly silky looking dark dark green)

Divine Retribution Light:
Channel 1: somewhat washed out, definitely too shiny
Channel 2: Decent saturation, still too shiny
Channel 3: Metal, so looks fine

Divine Retribution Medium:
Channel 1: Washed out and too shiny
Channel 2: Metal
Channel 3: Washed out, shiny, but not too noticeable

Divine Retribution Heavy:
Channel 1: Metal
Channel 2: Very washed out, not too shiny, but looks flat because of the lack of color
Channel 3: Metal

(Note concerning the Sapiarch style overall: The shirts in Light, Medium and Heavy have these gorgeous details around the sleeve cuffs, with built in gloves to boot. The flared sleeves are really well done, yet the Sapiarch gloves hide it, and the gloves, while not terrible, arent as cool as the cuff/glove that displays with no gloves equipped. Please consider reworking the Sapiarch gloves to match the "gloves" that display with nothing equipped in the slot. )
Sapiarch Light:
Channel 1: Very washed out, shinyness seems on par with silk, the lack of saturation makes it look worse than it is
Channel 2: Metal
Channel 3: Also washed out, shinyness is good, just a touch of luster*

Sapiarch Medium:
Channel 1: Same problem as Light Channel 1
Channel 2: Same Problem as Light Channel 3*
Channel 3: Metal

Sapiarch Heavy:
Channel 1: Same Problem as Light Channel 1
Channel 2: Metal
Channel 3: Same problem as Light Channel 3*
*By the end of checking these, the leather material didnt feel quite so washed out. It could definitely be darker, but it isnt awful.

Psijic (are we just doing one i now?) Light:
Channel 1: SUPER shiny, SUPER washed out. Looks like, well, I dont even know. But it looks very bad.
Channel 2: Super shiny for leather, and it almost completely desaturates the green.
Channel 3: Metal, but takes dye horribly. Looks like metal that was covered in colored saran wrap, not good.

Psijic Medium:
Channel 1: A little desaturated, a little shiny, but globally good
Channel 2: Metal. Similar to the Light metal problem, but not as bad
Channel 3: Same as Light Channel 1
Note about the shoulders: The dye channels for the medium shoulders seem...wrong somehow. The elements that would seem to be metal, arent, or dont dye as they seem they should. May be a bug, but they definitely dont appear to be dyeing as intended.

Psijic Heavy:
Channel 1: Metal, same as Medium Channel 2
Channel 2: Same as Light Channel 1
Channel 3: Same as Light Channel 1
Note: There doesnt seem to be a leather channel, as both channel 1 and 2 dye identically (unfortunately it is horrible, saturation is somewhat better than other cloth channels in this style, but the shiny factor is off the charts)

As previously stated, Tsaesci is perfection at every weight. Metal looks like metal, leather is deep and lustrous, cloth is a little on the washed out side, but it looks really nice no matter the dye, and is always mostly matte.

With the dye commentary out of the way...
The aesthetics of the styles are great. Bit concealing, wouldve been nice to see some sleeveless options, but I get it, the Altmer are much more conservative. Hip and crotch flaps are nowhere near as intrusive, and seem to be mostly absent, or at least easily overlooked, so big kudos there!

I am not terribly put off by the direction they are going with outfit styles. It is a bit...irksome that they are separating "Outfit Styles" from motifs. But I can understand why. Cash grabs aside, im interested to see what sorts of styles they make available over time.

Folks are free to comment on what ive posted, or make their own comments, just wanted to get a topic started early so perhaps some of these dye problems can get addressed.

Grimlok_S

Has anyone been able to unlock/obtain the Skyforge Smith Hammer from the achievement Grand Master Crafter?

From the potes:
Completing the "Grand Master Crafter" meta-achievement requires mastery of all tradeskills, including Jewelry Crafting, and will grant you the long-sought-after title, "Grand Master Crafter" as well as a new Outfit Style for one-handed weapons, the Skyforge Smith Hammer.

Carbonised

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Has anyone been able to unlock/obtain the Skyforge Smith Hammer from the achievement Grand Master Crafter?

From the potes:
Completing the "Grand Master Crafter" meta-achievement requires mastery of all tradeskills, including Jewelry Crafting, and will grant you the long-sought-after title, "Grand Master Crafter" as well as a new Outfit Style for one-handed weapons, the Skyforge Smith Hammer.

It's free to preview from your collection. Doesn't look anything special to me, just a regular old steel hammer, rather small. they say you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but this hammer is really just rather "meh".

Incognitius

Heh, was about to create my own thread to show the new motifs, but I might as well drop them here.

Lots of of amazing motif styles coming up this chapter! At least for the looks.
The hip-thingies aren't totally annoying. And the shoulder pieces are firmly attached!
Didn't check how well they dye though, as I mainly used blacks so far.

Psijic

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Sapiarch

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Scalecaller

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Fang Lair

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

And for the people who bought the collectors edition:


Divine Prosecution

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Apparently there is also a 6th secret motif coming with this chapter, though sadly this seems to be locked behind crown crates and chapter distribution.

Mystrius_Archaion

Earrindo wrote: »

Secondly, the same problem as I had with the bloodroot forge, dreadhorn, apostle and ebonshadow motifs. Every new motif (save Tsaesci, a gorgeous gem of a motif that is perfect just as it is) is afflicted with the WORST specular maps.
Not a single dye looks good, works well, or is properly saturated because these new motifs, like the previously mentioned ones, are so dang shiny. Colors are washed out at best, and look like saran wrap at worst. I couldn't find a single combination that looked good without using exclusively common dyes, which add the least specularity, but even those can be a toss up.

First, it's not the original shininess that is the issue with dyes being washed out. Look at the "Holiday in Balmora" costume for an example. It isn't shiny. It's just default darker colored and seems to have had something done to it to make the outfit mostly a "brushed leather". No color looks the same due to the dark color on it and the shiny dyes can't look shiny.

Also, you may not be using the right dyes. I, for one, got the ebonshadow light armor chest to look amazing with Nightshade Purple. It's not a perfect purple because the default color of the armor is darker, but it looks great. I can usually dye the same items with that purple a very decent shiny dark red with the Daedric Red dye, but that dye is washed out to a pink likely due to the default coloring of the armor.
I like the shine Nightshade Purple applies so it only enhanced the look for me.


I really wish they would have made a default blank white mesh for every armor for the dyes to be applied to. That would make the dyes all look right. They could still add shine to those also.


Edit:
FYI, lighting is everything. The lighting around every dye station is different and usually sucks. The clockwork city outfit station is the worst for washing out lighting. The best lighting is in the shade during the day or at night, as I have found. Also, don't forget to turn your graphics up for colors and armor to look right.

Incognitius

A point of criticism on the Crown Dungeon Boss styles, particularly Molag Kena.



If you look at the staff in my characters hand, and the staff in Molag Kena's hand, totally not the same staff!
Also dissapointing, whereas the Illambris weapon pieces have fire effect, and the Shadowrend armour pieces have a dark glow effect. Why do the Molag Kena pieces have no effect at all. It should come with tons of electricity.

Mystrius_Archaion

By the way, your opinions don't help us see what you mean.
This thread demands pictures of that dye on the default items you first mentioned that look good to you as well as pictures of it applied to the new motifs.

This is all just your opinion only until that is done. We can't also compare easily.

MLGProPlayer

I love the way Fang Lair dyes.

Sure some colours are washed out, but golds and silvers look dope as ***.

Asha_Mar

Any word on the common clothing (added as part of the Justice System) being included as outfit styles? Was half-expecting it to be included in Summerset but saw no mention.

Earrindo

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

By the way, your opinions don't help us see what you mean.
This thread demands pictures of that dye on the default items you first mentioned that look good to you as well as pictures of it applied to the new motifs.

This is all just your opinion only until that is done. We can't also compare easily.

While somewhat antagonistic in its phrasing, you have a good point. I am posting some comparison shots now.

Earrindo

Psijic Light Robe vs Ebony Light Robe.
I chose these two as they both have cloth, leather and metal elements easily visible.

All dyes used in all screenshots are Ophidian Jade, Birch White and Starlight Gold.

The first screenshot comparison is for the cloth elements, and how they display Ophidian Jade
Psijic:

Ebony:

The next screenshot comparison is for the leather elements, and how they display Ophidian Jade
Psijic:

Ebony:

Clearly, the cloth elements on Ebony display the dye in a deep, rich color, without losing any decorative elements.
The Psijic robe just looks ridiculous by comparison.

And I of course will conclude that these are my opinions. I don't expect everyone to share my aesthetic preferences.
My own commentary goes more to the fact that of 6 motifs being released in spitting distance of each other, only one of them doesnt turn outrageously shiny when using rare or uncommon dyes on the cloth and leather elements.

Mystrius_Archaion

Incognitius wrote: »

A point of criticism on the Crown Dungeon Boss styles, particularly Molag Kena.



If you look at the staff in my characters hand, and the staff in Molag Kena's hand, totally not the same staff!
Also dissapointing, whereas the Illambris weapon pieces have fire effect, and the Shadowrend armour pieces have a dark glow effect. Why do the Molag Kena pieces have no effect at all. It should come with tons of electricity.

1) Molag Kena in the picture is holding a Xivkyn Staff. That is obviously nothing special. So this is better when not matching.

2) I think the end of the patch notes said something about enchantments not showing when a weapon is used as part of an outfit, meaning the outfit hides all enchantment effects. That also reminds me of when the Maw weapons got re-enchanted that they lost their special glow.
This could be a symptom of both of those things.

LittlePumpkin030

the Motif Pyandonean is hopefully not what it seems to be.

I really hope this is nothing you are going to plan @ZOS_GinaBruno

Crown Store exclusive motifs... ok. but having Crown crates exclusive motif PAGES? This is one step to much.

If you are planning to really set this up like this, you either have to drop crown crate prices or sell the crown packages for way less money than you do now.
I am not willing to pay 200 Euro just to (maybe) get a Crafting Motif out of crates.

Mystrius_Archaion

Earrindo wrote: »

Psijic Light Robe vs Ebony Light Robe.
I chose these two as they both have cloth, leather and metal elements easily visible.

All dyes used in all screenshots are Ophidian Jade, Birch White and Starlight Gold.

The first screenshot comparison is for the cloth elements, and how they display Ophidian Jade
Psijic:

Ebony:

The next screenshot comparison is for the leather elements, and how they display Ophidian Jade
Psijic:

Ebony:

Clearly, the cloth elements on Ebony display the dye in a deep, rich color, without losing any decorative elements.
The Psijic robe just looks ridiculous by comparison.

And I of course will conclude that these are my opinions. I don't expect everyone to share my aesthetic preferences.
My own commentary goes more to the fact that of 6 motifs being released in spitting distance of each other, only one of them doesnt turn outrageously shiny when using rare or uncommon dyes on the cloth and leather elements.

I actually like how that green looks on the cloth for the psijic motif, but to each their own. Also, the Ebony motif seems to have washed out the green, especially on the gloves, while the dark green on the main cloth looks black due to the default color of the armor as well.

The problem seems to be that you chose a shiny dye while their may be a non-shiny dye you can use for a similar green.
For example, I love Nightshade Purple for the color and the shine, but if I want the same color without the shine then I go to Pillager Purple.


Though, the system is definitely not perfect. I prefer the completely hex coded system from DC Universe Online that is free to use wherever you are, not tied to a station or costing any currency. We work with what we got and provide feedback to make it better.

jcaceresw

LittlePumpkin030 wrote: »

the Motif Pyandonean is hopefully not what it seems to be.

I really hope this is nothing you are going to plan @ZOS_GinaBruno

Crown Store exclusive motifs... ok. but having Crown crates exclusive motif PAGES? This is one step to much.

If you are planning to really set this up like this, you either have to drop crown crate prices or sell the crown packages for way less money than you do now.
I am not willing to pay 200 Euro just to (maybe) get a Crafting Motif out of crates.

I got the Pyandonean chest motif part on my Crown Crate! What the **** ZOS? This is unacceptable. Either sell the whole book like the previous Crown Motifs or implement some form of getting such motif in-game with a moderate probability to get them.

jypcy

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Incognitius wrote: »

A point of criticism on the Crown Dungeon Boss styles, particularly Molag Kena.



If you look at the staff in my characters hand, and the staff in Molag Kena's hand, totally not the same staff!
Also dissapointing, whereas the Illambris weapon pieces have fire effect, and the Shadowrend armour pieces have a dark glow effect. Why do the Molag Kena pieces have no effect at all. It should come with tons of electricity.

1) Molag Kena in the picture is holding a Xivkyn Staff. That is obviously nothing special. So this is better when not matching.

2) I think the end of the patch notes said something about enchantments not showing when a weapon is used as part of an outfit, meaning the outfit hides all enchantment effects. That also reminds me of when the Maw weapons got re-enchanted that they lost their special glow.
This could be a symptom of both of those things.

Yes, the staff in the image is xivkyn style (such as Molag Kena’s Touch unique drop from that dungeon) and already available in game.

As for the sfx, I’m guessing it’s just a bug right now. When checking out all the new styles yesterday, I heard a crackle of electricity when switching to the Kena styles, just like there’s a small roar of fire when switching to Ilambris. Only thing is Ilambris actually has fiery visuals and Kena lacks the zap. Like said, guessing (hoping) it’s just a visual bug that will be corrected.

Incognitius

jypcy wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Incognitius wrote: »

A point of criticism on the Crown Dungeon Boss styles, particularly Molag Kena.



If you look at the staff in my characters hand, and the staff in Molag Kena's hand, totally not the same staff!
Also dissapointing, whereas the Illambris weapon pieces have fire effect, and the Shadowrend armour pieces have a dark glow effect. Why do the Molag Kena pieces have no effect at all. It should come with tons of electricity.

1) Molag Kena in the picture is holding a Xivkyn Staff. That is obviously nothing special. So this is better when not matching.

2) I think the end of the patch notes said something about enchantments not showing when a weapon is used as part of an outfit, meaning the outfit hides all enchantment effects. That also reminds me of when the Maw weapons got re-enchanted that they lost their special glow.
This could be a symptom of both of those things.

Yes, the staff in the image is xivkyn style (such as Molag Kena’s Touch unique drop from that dungeon) and already available in game.

As for the sfx, I’m guessing it’s just a bug right now. When checking out all the new styles yesterday, I heard a crackle of electricity when switching to the Kena styles, just like there’s a small roar of fire when switching to Ilambris. Only thing is Ilambris actually has fiery visuals and Kena lacks the zap. Like said, guessing (hoping) it’s just a visual bug that will be corrected.

Hmmm... good point. Thought that Kena had a trident at first. But yeah, the staff that she drops Molag Ken'as Touch, is definately Xivkyn. >.>

And yeah, also hoping for a bug.

Grimlok_S

Carbonised wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Has anyone been able to unlock/obtain the Skyforge Smith Hammer from the achievement Grand Master Crafter?

From the potes:
Completing the "Grand Master Crafter" meta-achievement requires mastery of all tradeskills, including Jewelry Crafting, and will grant you the long-sought-after title, "Grand Master Crafter" as well as a new Outfit Style for one-handed weapons, the Skyforge Smith Hammer.

It's free to preview from your collection. Doesn't look anything special to me, just a regular old steel hammer, rather small. they say you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but this hammer is really just rather "meh".

Would you be able to post a screenshot?
It will be a while until I can get on the pts.

Appreciated!

Franieck

With coldharbor ash black all of them dye horibly. You get colors from brown to silver. Channels are completely washed out

Aliyavana

Incognitius wrote: »

Heh, was about to create my own thread to show the new motifs, but I might as well drop them here.

Lots of of amazing motif styles coming up this chapter! At least for the looks.
The hip-thingies aren't totally annoying. And the shoulder pieces are firmly attached!
Didn't check how well they dye though, as I mainly used blacks so far.

Psijic

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Sapiarch

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Scalecaller

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Fang Lair

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

And for the people who bought the collectors edition:


Divine Prosecution

Light with Jerkin


Light with Robe


Medium


Heavy

Apparently there is also a 6th secret motif coming with this chapter, though sadly this seems to be locked behind crown crates and chapter distribution.

Awww, so smol