Why aren't magblades getting the snare removal?

Ectheliontnacil

PVP discussion.

So let me get this straight. Magblades, an underdog class (Don't dispute me on this, there's less than 5 truly successful magblades on EU, it's the class with the most hardcounters in game, it has the weakest defense outside of cloak etc.), have their spammable nerfed into uselessness, while most other classes receive moderate to huge buffs. Magdk is among the heavily buffed classes, even though it has always been strong in 1v1 scenarios and in openworld pvp too. Now I would be able to accept all of that, however there is one change that I simply cannot comprehend: Magdk is getting snare removal!

Why is a class that is designed to "protect it's house" getting snare removal (best means to increase mobility) added to their toolkit? And why aren't magblades, an already weak class, getting snare removal instead. Magblades need this buff sorely, as they aren't a defensive class and lack mobility in the current snare meta. Besides snare removal would be the best way of buffing magblades in pvp and not in pve!

I am really disappointed about this change. I have been hoping that magblade gets snare removal for ages now.

NOTE: Don't get triggered...shadow image buff is nice, as is the 2h change. Still feel like magblades are being passively nerfed (by buffing everything else unnecessarily) and the unwarranted strife cost increase.

Koolio

They kinda are

They are removing the 70% snare and giving us a 40% one.

Snare removal lmao

Kadoin

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

PVP discussion.

Magblades, an underdog class (Don't dispute me on this, there's less than 5 truly successful magblades on EU, it's the class with the most hardcounters in game, it has the weakest defense outside of cloak etc.), have their spammable nerfed into uselessness, while most other classes receive moderate to huge buffs. Magdk is among the heavily buffed classes, even though it has always been strong in 1v1 scenarios and in openworld pvp too. Now I would be able to accept all of that, however there is one change that I simply cannot comprehend: Magdk is getting snare removal!

Why is a class that is designed to "protect it's house" getting snare removal (best means to increase mobility) added to their toolkit? And why aren't magblades, an already weak class, getting snare removal instead. Magblades need this buff sorely, as they aren't a defensive class and lack mobility in the current snare meta. Besides snare removal would be the best way of buffing magblades in pvp and not in pve!

I am really disappointed about this change. I have been hoping that magblade gets snare removal for ages now.

NOTE: Don't get triggered...shadow image buff is nice, as is the 2h change. Still feel like magblades are being passively nerfed (by buffing everything else unnecessarily) and the unwarranted strife cost increase.

Sorry, not sure if trolling or serious. You're saying magblades need snare removal...in addition to being able to cloak, have better passive healing, have good damage, have access to major expedition longer tied to a DoT skill, have access to shades, have fear, have a ranged execute, access to major evasion without having to wear medium armor... AND have better sustain? W h a t ? Let's not even get into how cloak apparently gives you a window where damage is 100% dropped. Sounds like you don't want a weakness AT all.

Either that or its a troll post.

xeNNNNN

@Kadoin lets be real here, nobody in pvp likes snares at all. XD

Kadoin

xeNNNNN wrote: »

@Kadoin lets be real here, nobody in pvp likes snares at all. XD

I do, but only when I'm that person in the back of a zerg spamming ice clench with cost increase/drain stam poisons

To be honest, I don't even notice them anymore since I'm always snared...I just hold up block until it wears off on my DK, cleanse on my templar, or on mag NB wear Stendarr and cloak until it or mutagen procs and cleans off the snares (actually a reliable way of doing this is to cloak and use healthy offering with mutagen on, with enough healing your hp will be topped in 1-2 seconds and mutagen will clean the snare off before your cloak is broken. Keep that top-secret). I don't ever slot purge in PvP.

Sixty5

How can a magblade mitigate snares:

Cloak plus Shadow Image to break combat and heal up because of forced crit heals.

Mist form, which does have the magicka drawback, but is somewhat mitigated by having acces to a magicka return skill.

Going 2h and running forward momentum, which also gives a spell damage buff, and has almost no drawback as nightblade has a plethora of offensive class skills, and has no need for Rally heal.


Yep, magblade definitely needs snare removal in their kit.
We should add it to cloak, because it's not like that skill is very good or anything.

brandonv516

Agreed. We should not be forced into using Mist Form.

The REAL compromise should have been:

Shadowy Disguise
Stealth + Guaranteed Critical Direct Attack

Dark Cloak
Minor Protection + Snare Removal (NO STEALTH)

Ectheliontnacil

Kadoin wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

@Kadoin lets be real here, nobody in pvp likes snares at all. XD

I do, but only when I'm that person in the back of a zerg spamming ice clench with cost increase/drain stam poisons

To be honest, I don't even notice them anymore since I'm always snared...I just hold up block until it wears off on my DK, cleanse on my templar, or on mag NB wear Stendarr and cloak until it or mutagen procs and cleans off the snares (actually a reliable way of doing this is to cloak and use healthy offering with mutagen on, with enough healing your hp will be topped in 1-2 seconds and mutagen will clean the snare off before your cloak is broken. Keep that top-secret). I don't ever slot purge in PvP.

I find it very hard to take you seriously after what you just said.

1. Confirmed zerger, snare spammer and poison abuser.
2. You hold block until it wears off? How is that helping you with snares? Besides most snares don't wear off as they are constantly recast.
3. Stendarrs embrace is a unique set option and I respect your choice to use it, but it's no viable counter to snares.
4. Mutagen removes 1 effect, realistically you've got 5+ debuffs applied to you in most fights. Also your malevolent offering trick will bring you dangerously low on health...just to remove 1 effect that will prolly be reapplied immediately.

Ectheliontnacil

Sixty5 wrote: »

How can a magblade mitigate snares:

Cloak plus Shadow Image to break combat and heal up because of forced crit heals.

Mist form, which does have the magicka drawback, but is somewhat mitigated by having acces to a magicka return skill.

Going 2h and running forward momentum, which also gives a spell damage buff, and has almost no drawback as nightblade has a plethora of offensive class skills, and has no need for Rally heal.


Yep, magblade definitely needs snare removal in their kit.
We should add it to cloak, because it's not like that skill is very good or anything.

1. Cloak has several hardcounters and when snared it's almost impossible to escape with cloak as the enemy can predict your location and use aoe to pull you out.
2. Shadow image is a great skill but you can only get 1 teleport out of it when you're snared massively (because you'd need to move away again, which you can't...cuz snares). If you don't pull of the escape with one teleport, then shadow image won't help you much (again only if snared).
3. Mistform's main drawback isn't the magicka regen. It's stage 4 vampirism which makes you susceptible to magdks and dawnbreaker (which everyone runs). Also you only get snare immunity while in mistform, it will be imbossible for you to deal dmg/enter cloak at the same time... forward momentum is far superior.
4. With the massive light attack buffs I don't know how viable 2h sword will be. You will lose out on a lot of dmg for sure. Besides you know that something's wrong, when magicka classes are forced to run stamina weapons.

So yes, we should give nightblade snare immunity/remival.

Sarjako

Purge? Oh but the resource cost! Efficient PURGE!

Kadoin

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

@Kadoin lets be real here, nobody in pvp likes snares at all. XD

I do, but only when I'm that person in the back of a zerg spamming ice clench with cost increase/drain stam poisons

To be honest, I don't even notice them anymore since I'm always snared...I just hold up block until it wears off on my DK, cleanse on my templar, or on mag NB wear Stendarr and cloak until it or mutagen procs and cleans off the snares (actually a reliable way of doing this is to cloak and use healthy offering with mutagen on, with enough healing your hp will be topped in 1-2 seconds and mutagen will clean the snare off before your cloak is broken. Keep that top-secret). I don't ever slot purge in PvP.

I find it very hard to take you seriously after what you just said.

1. Confirmed zerger, snare spammer and poison abuser.
2. You hold block until it wears off? How is that helping you with snares? Besides most snares don't wear off as they are constantly recast.
3. Stendarrs embrace is a unique set option and I respect your choice to use it, but it's no viable counter to snares.
4. Mutagen removes 1 effect, realistically you've got 5+ debuffs applied to you in most fights. Also your malevolent offering trick will bring you dangerously low on health...just to remove 1 effect that will prolly be reapplied immediately.

1. Can't take a joke? Lighten up, it might help you actually enjoy the game or do you take losing so hard it breaks your spirit?

2. Actually, to be specific, I have enough stam to block and roll on my mag NB; I cut my damage to do so. The result? Snares are no real issue for me and neither are stuns. With the bonuses that mag NB get to magicka and the sustain, the mag loss is not even noticeable to me.

3-4. It's not just Stendarr that is the counter. The real counter is mutagen. With both mutagen and healthy offering on, even if a zerg drops my health low, they will clean the snares off for me because I will spam mutagen and get that heal and debuff removal repeatedly. Also, healthy offering is not really all that dangerous behind a damage shield when its first tick with mutagen is giving you back more hp than you put in. Healthy offering is nowhere near dangerous to use if you have mutagen on you, and I find it useful for saving magicka in a prolonged pvp fight that I have to shield up in anyway.

What if there is a huge zerg? Well, that's when you know you are dead anyway unless you have access to roll and block. I do, and that's exactly what I use to escape and cloak. Even if I'm snared or otherwise CC'd, with 2 HoTs on me Stendarr will proc anytime its off its cooldown and give me a window to escape. That's also assuming I don't just out tank the zerg if they cannot overcome my current HoTs (takes more than 5 focusing and max defile to overcome it with block and roll available). That's excluding the use of resto ult or bolstering darkness.

I honestly rarely die to a zerg and usually escape. In the case that I do, it's no situation where I wouldn't have died snared or not anyway (like being chased by 20+ spamming undodgeable skills and of course the execute spam). The amount of healing on NB is that ridiculous and that might be why NBs are losing crit heals from hemorrhage Templar just so happens to be the other class I do the SAME exact thing on in light armor, and its no surprise to me here that both are getting that crit healing nerfed.

5. Although I primarily function as a healer and spam healthy offering and mutagen on a group when I'm around them (the TRUE use of Stendarr is here), alone in a 1v1, 1v2, 1v3,1v4,1v5, ..., it turns out that by being a part-time healer I am virtually unkillable and can still use soul harvest and burst them down one by one thanks in large part to the direct damage CP star and a large magicka pool. And no, I don't run and hide behind rocks or play tower whack-a-mole, I play on the open field.

Does that mean I always win? Nope, the enemies can kill me every time when they do damage equal to my HP at any instant in time. This seems to be a matter of pure coincidence, so I honestly don't really take it too seriously when I die from these instances. Most of the time they don't and can't do it not matter how much they spam snares and CC, and yes this is in light armor.

Now you know why I say mag NB is overpowered, guess the user makes the difference after all.

brandonv516

Sarjako wrote: »

Purge? Oh but the resource cost! Efficient PURGE!

Not very efficient. No guarantees for the cost.

Joshuagm1991

Has anyone seen the original movie Willy Wonka and the Chocolatw Factory?
I can hear the spoiled chick singing now: "I want the wooorrrld. I want tomorrrrowwww."

Just be happy you're thinking about silly snare mechanics than things much worse.

Ectheliontnacil

Kadoin wrote: »

1. Can't take a joke? Lighten up, it might help you actually enjoy the game or do you take losing so hard it breaks your spirit?

2. Actually, to be specific, I have enough stam to block and roll on my mag NB; I cut my damage to do so. The result? Snares are no real issue for me and neither are stuns. With the bonuses that mag NB get to magicka and the sustain, the mag loss is not even noticeable to me.

Haha you did make me light up! You have enough stam to block on your magblade? Dude I'd like to see you stand there holding block while the zerg jumps on you. In fact I don't think you could sustain block for any period of time unless you're using 1h/s or the frost staff (both of which are questionable decisions for nbs).

3-4. It's not just Stendarr that is the counter. The real counter is mutagen. With both mutagen and healthy offering on, even if a zerg drops my health low, they will clean the snares off for me because I will spam mutagen and get that heal and debuff removal repeatedly. Also, healthy offering is not really all that dangerous behind a damage shield when its first tick with mutagen is giving you back more hp than you put in. Healthy offering is nowhere near dangerous to use if you have mutagen on you, and I find it useful for saving magicka in a prolonged pvp fight that I have to shield up in anyway.

The real counter is mutagen?
You don't just sit at 20% hp conveniently while there's a zerg damaging you. And you think you can just sit there and spam mutagen until you get the snare removed? When there really is a zerg on you, the snares will never get removed, as there's 10+ debuffs being applied to you every second, besides you are dead within moments when spamming mutagen with an actual zerg on you. You would be dead even when spamming shields. The incoming dmg is insane, if a cc hits you even for an instant and you stop pounding those shields you'll be dead, if there's enough ppl on you.

What if there is a huge zerg? Well, that's when you know you are dead anyway unless you have access to roll and block. I do, and that's exactly what I use to escape and cloak. Even if I'm snared or otherwise CC'd, with 2 HoTs on me Stendarr will proc anytime its off its cooldown and give me a window to escape. That's also assuming I don't just out tank the zerg if they cannot overcome my current HoTs (takes more than 5 focusing and max defile to overcome it with block and roll available). That's excluding the use of resto ult or bolstering darkness.

So you're telling me that you can effortlessly tank up to five people, without using any ultimates at all and not even minding the defile (since you said it had to be 5+ and defile). Either you're using a complete turtle build that does 0 dmg, you're confusing the word "tank" with "kite" or you're simply lying. There is no way you can easily facetank 5 ppl without even ulting on a dmg spec. I don't know any magblade who can do that and I know the best.

I honestly rarely die to a zerg and usually escape. In the case that I do, it's no situation where I wouldn't have died snared or not anyway (like being chased by 20+ spamming undodgeable skills and of course the execute spam). The amount of healing on NB is that ridiculous and that might be why NBs are losing crit heals from hemorrhage Templar just so happens to be the other class I do the SAME exact thing on in light armor, and its no surprise to me here that both are getting that crit healing nerfed.

5. Although I primarily function as a healer and spam healthy offering and mutagen on a group when I'm around them (the TRUE use of Stendarr is here), alone in a 1v1, 1v2, 1v3,1v4,1v5, ..., it turns out that by being a part-time healer I am virtually unkillable and can still use soul harvest and burst them down one by one thanks in large part to the direct damage CP star and a large magicka pool. And no, I don't run and hide behind rocks or play tower whack-a-mole, I play on the open field.

You function as a healer? Spam healthy offering on your grp? Sounds like a zergling to me after all. And you play in the open field while effortlessly tanking 5 people and bursting them down with ease. You do realise that this makes you prolly the best player in eso. There's very few people who can facetank 5 players without having to LoS on the "open field" and kill all of them consistently. Even less ppl can do that on a magblade.

Does that mean I always win? Nope, the enemies can kill me every time when they do damage equal to my HP at any instant in time. This seems to be a matter of pure coincidence, so I honestly don't really take it too seriously when I die from these instances. Most of the time they don't and can't do it not matter how much they spam snares and CC, and yes this is in light armor.

Now you know why I say mag NB is overpowered, guess the user makes the difference after all.

Haha so you're saying that I'm the noob here? I am not. Based on what I've heard, you're very inexperienced or you just happen to be fighting lvl 10 players all the time. I'm guessing you're from console !

If you're not from console and want to prove me wrong, we can duel any time you like.

MrDenimChicken

Kadoin wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

PVP discussion.

Magblades, an underdog class (Don't dispute me on this, there's less than 5 truly successful magblades on EU, it's the class with the most hardcounters in game, it has the weakest defense outside of cloak etc.), have their spammable nerfed into uselessness, while most other classes receive moderate to huge buffs. Magdk is among the heavily buffed classes, even though it has always been strong in 1v1 scenarios and in openworld pvp too. Now I would be able to accept all of that, however there is one change that I simply cannot comprehend: Magdk is getting snare removal!

Why is a class that is designed to "protect it's house" getting snare removal (best means to increase mobility) added to their toolkit? And why aren't magblades, an already weak class, getting snare removal instead. Magblades need this buff sorely, as they aren't a defensive class and lack mobility in the current snare meta. Besides snare removal would be the best way of buffing magblades in pvp and not in pve!

I am really disappointed about this change. I have been hoping that magblade gets snare removal for ages now.

NOTE: Don't get triggered...shadow image buff is nice, as is the 2h change. Still feel like magblades are being passively nerfed (by buffing everything else unnecessarily) and the unwarranted strife cost increase.

Sorry, not sure if trolling or serious. You're saying magblades need snare removal...in addition to being able to cloak, have better passive healing, have good damage, have access to major expedition longer tied to a DoT skill, have access to shades, have fear, have a ranged execute, access to major evasion without having to wear medium armor... AND have better sustain? W h a t ? Let's not even get into how cloak apparently gives you a window where damage is 100% dropped. Sounds like you don't want a weakness AT all.

Either that or its a troll post.

uhhh mag blades are squishy as ***. If you think stuff like major evasion is some crazy OP thing on a mag blade than you are crazy man. It's barely worth running over just using the light armor shield + resto staff ward...most people actually just run those 2 shields. Most mag NB's also don't use the ranged execute in PVP.

The defense from mag NB's comes from stacking 2 weak shields, heal over time, and shade. Stealth is awesome but if you get snared before the stealth than it can be really hard to stay in stealth once people just start aoe'ing in the area you stealthed.

I play Magblade a lot and I've switched to 2h just for the access to snare removal. But's it's pretty silly that I have to run a 2hander just for that reason. And I feel like in the next patch, light attacks will be way stronger, so having a 2hander just for the snare removal will end up costing a lot of dps from using staff and light/swallow soul weaving. With on demand shadow image, mag NB is probably going to become a teleport in + Burst + get out instantly type of class. I foresee most MagNBs being relegated to bomber NB's with this patch, and StamBlades will continue to be much more effective in PVP overall.

on Xbox, mag NB's are not that common in PVP. They are a minority to be honest. So if they were so OP like you seem to think than I would expect way more of them to be present. Most of the fotm players just play stamblades, magplars, and stamplars.

Knootewoot

Koolio wrote: »

They kinda are

They are removing the 70% snare and giving us a 40% one.

Snare removal lmao

I am a magblade and this made me LOL

LeagueTroll

Magblade is underdog class? Lol then what is magwarden and magplar? Magblade is best mag atm, assassin will burst, hard cc, snare, defile, execute magblade has all. Sorc and dk don’t have defile. Magplar and magwarden barely do any dmg.

Ectheliontnacil

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Magblade is underdog class? Lol then what is magwarden and magplar? Magblade is best mag atm, assassin will burst, hard cc, snare, defile, execute magblade has all. Sorc and dk don’t have defile. Magplar and magwarden barely do any dmg.

Not underdog in duels perhaps but in openworld certainly. It's not all about the dmg output.

For example sorc has better and more easily accessible burst, while being tankier. And most classes apart from sorc have more sustained pressure than magblade and are a lot tankier. Also magblades have the most hardcounters in game. If you're fighting in openworld pvp, you'll encounter these hardcounters quite often, which is frustrating and makes magblades less viable.

Abysswarrior45

I must admit, I'm surprised seeing all the nerfs to magblades and nothing about stamblades being touched. Anyone who's ran a heavy stamblade knows how broken they are. Amazing heals survivability and the ability to absolutely nuke anyone/groups while debuffing their healing almost entirely. Magblades are arguably the best 1v1 class unless paired with a dk using wings, but they're still pretty tough open world. Devs decisions are a little surprising. At least you guys still have your 1 hit KO merciless' right?

LeagueTroll

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Magblade is underdog class? Lol then what is magwarden and magplar? Magblade is best mag atm, assassin will burst, hard cc, snare, defile, execute magblade has all. Sorc and dk don’t have defile. Magplar and magwarden barely do any dmg.

Not underdog in duels perhaps but in openworld certainly. It's not all about the dmg output.

For example sorc has better and more easily accessible burst, while being tankier. And most classes apart from sorc have more sustained pressure than magblade and are a lot tankier. Also magblades have the most hardcounters in game. If you're fighting in openworld pvp, you'll encounter these hardcounters quite often, which is frustrating and makes magblades less viable.

Oh being best in dual among mag (likely stronger than all stam too) is still weak? Magblade has dots, sure dk can do more, sorc can do same amount, but warden dot is not stronger and templar dot can be easily dodged.

ak_pvp

Incorrect on all accounts. Magblade is great for duels and one of the best openworld, solo and group, because of how busted cloak is, and being a bomber. Then add path for some cripple for mobility on demand, that isn't a gap closer, shade which is getting buffed a whole lot. (fair imo) melee magblade will be the best mag class in game. Then sorc, then DK, then mag ward (no stun) and then magplar (awful)

If you think sorc is better, lel, shields are stupid strong 1v1 because of lack of counters, but melt easily. Cloak doesn't and the counters are bad, even good, high ranked players think so If you look at the nb threads prior

DK however is good in duels only. And is the worst nerfed class in ESO. Last patch was power whip nerfs like bad, whilst merciless and NB got a buff. Note: DK mathematically has the worst defense in game. The two tank passives work out less than minor protection overall (5% but only when blocking, which is nerfed to hell, and 4.5% but only spell resist) and wings is worse than cloak by a country mile.

Sustain has been nerfed to hell, and the new passive whilst decent, is still worse than old battle roar, is rng and won't proc on certain races, shields, or cloaked enemies. Even the frag buff was a nerfs overall. Before igneous used to be bigger and 6s shield. No magdk will use it since two casts of blood is better for cost. And don't get me started on many of the other buffs. 2/3 the healer skills are useless, (eruption is lul for PvP it will be moved out of straight away, caurerize is a good solo hot, range changes nothing) and most of the abilities they buffed no one uses nor will use.

No good mobility, and snare removal (not immunity) is useless on a DK that doesn't have something like cloak to stop other attacks hitting and instasnaring

Tl;dr weakest openworld class got some sustain for PvP. Rest remains inconsequential and not worth running. Best openworld mag class got more mobility, but a spammable nerf (welcome to the club)

If you think wings is so good, trade for shade? Stand your ground placement based movement on a DK, and snare remove before cloak for movement for an NB.