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Why auction house is bad
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dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The OP is worried that if a global AH became a thing guild stores would fail- and he's right, they would because AH is far far superior, if we had one nobody would bother with the terrible system we currently are all forced to use.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.5 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭I don't like the current system because it requires being in a guild and I don't want to be in one. Some weeks I just don't feel like playing ESO, I'll read (books, manga etc) or draw or Watch shows or play other games. Even if you think a 20 k week commitment is small it's still more than I want to put up with. I just want to sell a few things occassionally, I don't want my time in ESO to feel like a part-time job. As things are now, if I have excess of something I can't or don't want to use I just destroy it instead.
I don't particularly want to current system to disappear, I just want an option (besides trying to sell in the chatt) for those of us who don't want to join a guild.
I whole heartedly agree.
For some time I was checking my bank character every single day.. it became a chore, in order to not get kicked from the guild. I understand the guild completely, since it's competative. But it doesn't change the fact that I, because of it's nature, caused me to do these "chores" instead of doing something else I'd enjoy more.
I like the base idea of a guild trader-system.. But I think it could be changed and tweaked, in order to prevent an Action House scenario, where Everyone could access something like a trader without being affiliated with a guild.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have thought, for a long time now, that the best solution would be individual stores (guild, or not) for most things (especially crafted things) and then a centralised auction house (or warehouse) for materials.
This is because the bane of other games, with only centralised auction houses, is instant undercutting.
Where an addon cancels and relists items, as soon as those items are undercut.
This is, obviously, horrendous for crafters and so on (who don't use the addons), as they are unable to sell things, most of the time, unless people can see what is happening and don't always buy the cheapest thing.
On the other hand, well-priced materials sell very fast and no one wants to traipse all over the world, searching multiple guild stores for materials which have, very often, already sold by the time they get there.
So, make it like real life (pre the internet).
Have a wholesaler/supplier for mats (and perhaps some other, very basic, things) and then individual stores for everything else.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
ESO trading is the OPPOSITE of realistic in every. possible. way.
Well, no, not in every possible way.
Maybe it is, now - but, not prior to the internet, it's not.
Which, of course, is a relatively recent invention.
Where it differs from buying/selling, even prior to the advent of the internet, is in terms of the supply chain.
There is none...
There are no suppliers, or warehouses, or auctions (selling raw materials, livestock, grains etc.) - there are only retailers (or storeholders) and those retailers are only accessible to sellers, via guilds and those guild stores are only leased temporarily, as you say.
Other than that, it's fairly accurate, in terms of lots of spead-out shops, a few in each town, selling the same items at a variety of different prices.
Where the shops would differ from individual bricks and mortar stores would be in terms of the competition within those stores.
So, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that guild stores are individual markets, with multiple small stallholders selling their wares at varying prices?
You could absolutely implement a magical version of the internet, where you could browse, on your magical device, a central auction house/warehouse and/or multiple online stores.
I wouldn't be against that, personally.
In fact, I would like it, in many ways.
However, I'm assuming they want to stay with a more old fashioned system, to reflect the more old fashioned ESO world?
I don't think the current system is ideal, I'm not really sure why they went with guild stores specifically (rather than individual shops, which were not linked to guilds)?
However, I can absolutely see why they went with an old fashioned, fragmented retail system.
Rather than only a centralised one.
As the latter causes its own issues.
As per my previous post, what I think is needed is a considered combination of both.Edited by Tigerseye on January 6, 2019 2:46PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »
I'm pretty sure this system is in fact very well thought through. For one it is much more realistic than any AH spanning a whole fantasy world/universe/multiverse and for two (:D) it prevents AH bots and all such nonsense that comes with a centralized AH.[...] this mess of a system is the only thing they could come up with, after not thinking trading through and not properly adding it from the start. but oh well.
I applaud ZOS for this system - well done!
Realistic as in people exploiting it since day 1 not getting in trouble for exploiting it constantly every week since day 1, abusing addons to give false PCs, if you think this prevents Bots you are 100% wrong this is Bot heaven compared to an auction house, nonsense of saving everyone's playtime every day is not nonsense.
Well if people are stupid enough to trust a non global price check. That’s their own da-mn fault. I tell people to give ttc price just because there is no point faking it.
People will buy traders with no items listed to prevent competition.1 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeagueTroll wrote: »Yes, this is a ‘I don’t want auction house’ thread. Eso is not a du-mb pay to win korean game. As a game with real lore, eso need to not to copy the system of those games. Guild trader is a great and unique system, location matters, guilds with good trader atract people. Zone buy is enable because of no auction house, players can barter, which is something rare in games with auction house. The only thing good about auction house is easier to code it. I would never support a boring system.
Boring system? AH can be a lot of fun, but boring is not the problem. Price fixing is. People have millions of gold and would simply price fix like WoW and other mmorpgs3 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »LeagueTroll wrote: »Yes, this is a ‘I don’t want auction house’ thread. Eso is not a du-mb pay to win korean game. As a game with real lore, eso need to not to copy the system of those games. Guild trader is a great and unique system, location matters, guilds with good trader atract people. Zone buy is enable because of no auction house, players can barter, which is something rare in games with auction house. The only thing good about auction house is easier to code it. I would never support a boring system.
Boring system? AH can be a lot of fun, but boring is not the problem. Price fixing is. People have millions of gold and would simply price fix like WoW and other mmorpgs
So you agree it’s boring you just don’t mind?
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dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mean if you consider a convenient and rational system for player to player trading bad then yeah.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ESO trading is the OPPOSITE of realistic in every. possible. way.
Well, no, not in every possible way.
Maybe it is, now - but, not prior to the internet, it's not.
Which, of course, is a relatively recent invention.
Where it differs from buying/selling, even prior to the advent of the internet, is in terms of the supply chain.
There is none...
There are no suppliers, or warehouses, or auctions (selling raw materials, livestock, grains etc.) - there are only retailers (or storeholders) and those retailers are only accessible to sellers, via guilds and those guild stores are only leased temporarily, as you say.
Other than that, it's fairly accurate, in terms of lots of spead-out shops, a few in each town, selling the same items at a variety of different prices.
Where the shops would differ from individual bricks and mortar stores would be in terms of the competition within those stores.
So, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that guild stores are individual markets, with multiple small stallholders selling their wares at varying prices?
You could absolutely implement a magical version of the internet, where you could browse, on your magical device, a central auction house/warehouse and/or multiple online stores.
I wouldn't be against that, personally.
In fact, I would like it, in many ways.
However, I'm assuming they want to stay with a more old fashioned system, to reflect the more old fashioned ESO world?
I don't think the current system is ideal, I'm not really sure why they went with guild stores specifically (rather than individual shops, which were not linked to guilds)?
However, I can absolutely see why they went with an old fashioned, fragmented retail system.
Rather than only a centralised one.
As the latter causes its own issues.
As per my previous post, what I think is needed is a considered combination of both.
Okay let's get this straight because I'm having a hard time understanding your logic here lol.
This is a thread based on "internet" not existing during a time of ESO but yet we can create magic javalins cast fire out of our mouth turn back time with psijic order summon demons but yet a auction house is out of the question because internet doesn't exist yet? Lol is that basically what your trying to say? Cause if so and just think about the logic of all this
Now let's think this is a game we play for fun let's make things more accessible already and make it so people don't own markets and prevent solo players or new players from making money. The rich get richer sounds like we are in Merica!2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Main problem with the guild traders is not multiple locations but an lack of search and filters. Something like master merchant but server side. Peraps that you could simple use an item as example like an item in set or motif pages to search for others.I mean if you consider a convenient and rational system for player to player trading bad then yeah.
Without good search an auction house you would get an list of junk 100 times longer before getting the the thing you are interested in.
Second is price fixing and the min maxing who happens.
ESO has just 6 servers not 100 like wow has so the trade volume is much higher.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »
I'd love to know what's so realistic about going to the gaming version of a brick and mortar, except the store mails in-stock purchases to you. That has to be one of the most immersion-shattering "features" I've ever experienced.0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭This is like a 1990 barbaric economy setup tbh, all recent MMO's use a form of global auction house now a days its just much easier to use for those that can't be on more than 2 hours a day
I'm only on about an hour a day, I prefer this system over a cost inflating/undercutting auction house.0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭
I don't think you understand the request for an auction house. This isn't to replace guild stores, it's to allow players to sell items without a guild store.LeagueTroll wrote: »The only thing good about auction house is easier to code it. I would never support a boring system.
In other words: both will exist in the game.
Auctions can be a great place to get items at a fraction of the cost.
As for "easier to code it", clearly you're not a programmer. So, I'll close with this:
public function Oops(int ignoranceLimit) {
return ignoranceLimit / 0;
}
Lol, anyone can write a simple function, a huge difference between a programmer and a developer, and you must not have any experience in the latter. It's pretty obvious to anyone with basic development experience an auction house would be easier than a guild trader system, with a guild trader, you would need at a minimum one extra table and extra key in at least two tables, not to mention MANY fewer objects, and easier optimization.
Significantly easier? Maybe not, but still easier.
Edited by Odnoc on January 8, 2019 4:01AM0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »
ESO trading is the OPPOSITE of realistic in every. possible. way.
Well, no, not in every possible way.
Maybe it is, now - but, not prior to the internet, it's not.
Which, of course, is a relatively recent invention.
Where it differs from buying/selling, even prior to the advent of the internet, is in terms of the supply chain.
There is none...
There are no suppliers, or warehouses, or auctions (selling raw materials, livestock, grains etc.) - there are only retailers (or storeholders) and those retailers are only accessible to sellers, via guilds and those guild stores are only leased temporarily, as you say.
Other than that, it's fairly accurate, in terms of lots of spead-out shops, a few in each town, selling the same items at a variety of different prices.
Where the shops would differ from individual bricks and mortar stores would be in terms of the competition within those stores.
So, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that guild stores are individual markets, with multiple small stallholders selling their wares at varying prices?
You could absolutely implement a magical version of the internet, where you could browse, on your magical device, a central auction house/warehouse and/or multiple online stores.
I wouldn't be against that, personally.
In fact, I would like it, in many ways.
However, I'm assuming they want to stay with a more old fashioned system, to reflect the more old fashioned ESO world?
I don't think the current system is ideal, I'm not really sure why they went with guild stores specifically (rather than individual shops, which were not linked to guilds)?
However, I can absolutely see why they went with an old fashioned, fragmented retail system.
Rather than only a centralised one.
As the latter causes its own issues.
As per my previous post, what I think is needed is a considered combination of both.
Okay let's get this straight because I'm having a hard time understanding your logic here lol.
This is a thread based on "internet" not existing during a time of ESO but yet we can create magic javalins cast fire out of our mouth turn back time with psijic order summon demons but yet a auction house is out of the question because internet doesn't exist yet? Lol is that basically what your trying to say? Cause if so and just think about the logic of all this
Now let's think this is a game we play for fun let's make things more accessible already and make it so people don't own markets and prevent solo players or new players from making money. The rich get richer sounds like we are in Merica!
The point is that it needs to be logical within the context of the world (the elder scrolls series) itself. Getting rid of those boundaries is to rip out the very foundation of the game. I hope it clears up the confusion
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭I'm of two minds on this issue. As a seller in a trading guild, I like the current system.
But as a buyer, I hate shopping. Searching for a specific item can be so painfully tedious that I just don't shop in guild traders much these days. This makes me wonder, how many other players avoid shopping because it's so tedious? Would an improved search function encourage more buying and thus improve sales in the long term?
By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm of two minds on this issue. As a seller in a trading guild, I like the current system.
But as a buyer, I hate shopping. Searching for a specific item can be so painfully tedious that I just don't shop in guild traders much these days. This makes me wonder, how many other players avoid shopping because it's so tedious? Would an improved search function encourage more buying and thus improve sales in the long term?
I certainly do. In the other two MMOs I've played I shopped out of the auction house for everything. I go out of my way to farm or make or collect what I can in ESO instead, or post WTB in zone chat, because shopping is such a huge PITA. I'm not going to go from trader to trader to trader looking for something, that's absurd.0 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭Simple. Zeni adds an auction house to the game, i buy 1 year sub and a lot of stuff in the eso store. win/win
Playing the AH in mmorpgs is one of the funnest features (imo) of an mmorpg. Collecting your items, posting them for people to buy and seeing "a buyer has been found for your "insert item name"" in the chat is a great feeling. I do not want to be FORCED into being in a guild of people i could not give a crap about just to sell me stuff. i hate forced social interactions, yes this is an MMO and i will do what's needed with other people but i draw the line at being in a mainstream guild, listeining to people complain and insult each other just to have the small ability to post a few things in an npc who is most likely in a backwater zone no one goes to, and i REFUSE to PAY guild "fees"
If there is one thing ESO fails at it is the refusal to ad in a REAL auction house system. So i am not playing until they do. Simple. Zeni loses money (and i cannot be the only one) and they gain nothing.
EDIT: Before the PC master race idiots get here. i play on Xbox One, i do NOT have access to your wonderful addons/mods to fix the garbage guild trader ui. i should not be forced to use addons to fix something the devs could easily fix (instead of thinking about what reskin to put in the store for 2000 crowns..)
EDIT 2: Just bought the 100$ Black Desert Online (XB1) pre order and will be playing that from now on, gotta love that auction house Edited by Neoicelord on January 8, 2019 7:20AM0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »Simple. Zeni adds an auction house to the game, i buy 1 year sub and a lot of stuff in the eso store. win/win
Playing the AH in mmorpgs is one of the funnest features (imo) of an mmorpg. Collecting your items, posting them for people to buy and seeing "a buyer has been found for your "insert item name"" in the chat is a great feeling. I do not want to be FORCED into being in a guild of people i could not give a crap about just to sell me stuff. i hate forced social interactions, yes this is an MMO and i will do what's needed with other people but i draw the line at being in a mainstream guild, listeining to people complain and insult each other just to have the small ability to post a few things in an npc who is most likely in a backwater zone no one goes to, and i REFUSE to PAY guild "fees"
If there is one thing ESO fails at it is the refusal to ad in a REAL auction house system. So i am not playing until they do. Simple. Zeni loses money (and i cannot be the only one) and they gain nothing.
EDIT: Before the PC master race idiots get here. i play on Xbox One, i do NOT have access to your wonderful addons/mods to fix the garbage guild trader ui. i should not be forced to use addons to fix something the devs could easily fix (instead of thinking about what reskin to put in the store for 2000 crowns..)
EDIT 2: Just bought the 100$ Black Desert Online (XB1) pre order and will be playing that from now on, gotta love that auction house
And an auction house would likely make many people, including myself, who already does a year sub and spend several hundred each year on crown store quit. So lose someone who doesn’t pay or lose someone who does, what would cost them more?
It’s already been said, they likely have metrics’s they use to figure this stuff out, just because people who likely don’t pay are threatening to quit doesn’t mean they’re losing money.Edited by Odnoc on January 8, 2019 12:40PM0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »LeagueTroll wrote: »
I'd love to know what's so realistic about going to the gaming version of a brick and mortar, except the store mails in-stock purchases to you. That has to be one of the most immersion-shattering "features" I've ever experienced.
The delivery when in stock is something could be improved. But auction house can have same issue. It’s independent from the auction house vs hired trader debate.
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