Compensation culture

Varidian

Guys it's high time to accept that Zen are not obliged to give anything away... Be it tangible or digital. Yea it is a complete joke that we have lost so much play time and my god you couldn't make it up. But it is just a video game.

I pay for eso plus and I buy 5k crowns almost each week or two before anyone tries that "you don't pay" card

The cold truth is that Zen are not interested in taking time to do this. Especially in light of the fact other servers and platforms will as a result demand equal privileges.

The more you demand that they spend time creating cute little apology hampers for us lot detracts from the time and resources directed at maintaining the already unstable server... Would be nice if they homed in on that issue before anything else.

Turelus

I think people asking about compensation is fine (even if until last night I felt it was a bit premature) my main issue is how people do it.

Being passive aggressive, insulting and rude isn't the way to have a good conversation about if ZOS should be considering compensating us for the lost game time.

At this point I would be placated with just a day or two more of then event as we've had two peak time downtimes now, one I could forgive two (on top of non-peak times) is getting a little towards the frustrating side.

I'll still be respectful in my posting though, because that's how everyone should be.

yiasemi

Yeah, I never complain about the regular peak time maintenances (Hong Kong) but two days in a row in an event week has left me sleepwalking at work with very little sleep, just to get some dailies done at least when the servers finally came back up. I need some panda eyes cream pls, or maybe a nice desk pillow.

Nermy

I'm pretty sure if you read through the T&C we all signed up to there is some clause that ZoS reserve the right to take the servers down whenever they please for a 'reasonable' time.

I think it will probably then go on to define what a 'reasonable' time is.

I remember, back in the mists of time, LoTRO going down for 5 days! Imagine what the forums where like demanding compensation, and you know what? They did. All subbers got 5 days free added to their accounts.

Taking the server down for a few hours os nothing.

Also, I agree with @Turelus, the way people DEMAND compensation is pathetic.

exiars10

Varidian wrote: »

I pay for eso plus and I buy 5k crowns almost each week or two before anyone tries that "you don't pay" card

But that's the problem - as long as people buy ESO Plus and crowns nothing will change.

After all, ZeniMax Media is business as every other public gaming corp and their Board of Directors is full of non-gaming people. Those people only care about balance sheet and income statement and nothing else. It's business as usual. They will only care if revenues are starting to decline i.e. for corporation only money talks.

Ragnarock41

nothing wrong about asking for compensation, though how you ask for it is the problem.

Chaos2088

I do not want compensation happy with what I have got to be honest.

I however would like more time with the event so I can have the opportunity to farm the worm cult motif. As had a few times where I feel like there has been a barrier, disconnections etc getting in the way of me getting it. Would be ace if the event was extended just a couple of days.

Tavore1138

The unhelpful snark not withstanding - consumers, like us, have rights when we fight for them. All the protections we have right now not to be ripped off is because less kool aid drinking generations actually stood up for themselves rather than saying 'oh dear, there is small print, I must obey'. If everyone had your attitude we'd have no laws or protections from anything.... just saying.

Anyway....

For the first time in a while I actually feel ZoS are crossing that line where I am becoming angry not only at the constant flakiness of the EU servers which has been exhibited for several months of 'double patching downtime' leading up to this last couple of weeks but also by the tedious refusal to offer any explanation or any real communication (a long term failing of this company).

A company that demonstrates it's eternal willingness to design cosmetic fluff but a similar unwillingness to fix the ability to even access the game is one that has questionable priorities.

If I can't log in to enjoy my cosmetic fluff then I am unlikely to spend money to buy more.

If I can't log in reliably day to day I am unlikely to renew my sub when it next comes up.

Do they have any legal requirement to compensate me for the annoyance? No. Do they have anything to gain by offering me some sort of compensation to keep me sweet as a customer while they get their service in order? Very possibly.

Operating a company, or a personal life, on the basis of minimum legal responsibility might stand up in legal court but it won't gain you many supporters in the real world.

Asardes

I won't ask for compensation, but bringing down the server for maintenance 3 times within 36 hours during an in game event is kinda lame. ZoS should definitely clean up their act.

bongtokin420insd16

Being a member of a large Tech Enterprise division myself, i see the issue as more of poor planning on their part. They didn't test their setup to make sure it could handle the large influx of users that have occurred as a result of the event. Peak times are seeing 2-3x the norm, and off peak are seeing what peak usually does id imagine, and they didn't plan for it appropriately.

This type of thing happens in business too often, but i doubt we will see any sort of compensation for it. Especially considering its not across all the platforms. Imagine how much us PS4 NA users will cry if EU gets more time in the event and we dont

Aesthier

I agree that yeah this has been a rough week and the way in which people are bringing about their requests for compensation is really overly harsh.

To be honest I feel those on the EU servers have a much better leg to stand on regarding compensation than those of us on the NA server due to the fact that the times they were down for maintenance were during their prime hours.

Now don't get me wrong, even though I am on NA and I play in the wee hours of the morning when NA maintenance is going on, the reality is those wee hours are not NA primetime and I accept that.

All in all, I agree with the OP but also wouldn't be upset if our European brothers were to receive compensation that we may not.

Nermy

Oh, look what I found in the T&C:

'ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You.'

Also:

'ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time.'

Aesthier

Tavore1138 wrote: »

A company that demonstrates it's eternal willingness to design cosmetic fluff but a similar unwillingness to fix the ability to even access the game is one that has questionable priorities.

If I can't log in to enjoy my cosmetic fluff then I am unlikely to spend money to buy more.

If I can't log in reliably day to day I am unlikely to renew my sub when it next comes up.

Do they have any legal requirement to compensate me for the annoyance? No. Do they have anything to gain by offering me some sort of compensation to keep me sweet as a customer while they get their service in order? Very possibly.

Operating a company, or a personal life, on the basis of minimum legal responsibility might stand up in legal court but it won't gain you many supporters in the real world.

And they did compensate you!


They took down the servers to provide fixes for the very reasons you listed above instead of waiting to implement those fixes at a later date.

That sir was compensation!

Tavore1138

Aesthier wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

A company that demonstrates it's eternal willingness to design cosmetic fluff but a similar unwillingness to fix the ability to even access the game is one that has questionable priorities.

If I can't log in to enjoy my cosmetic fluff then I am unlikely to spend money to buy more.

If I can't log in reliably day to day I am unlikely to renew my sub when it next comes up.

Do they have any legal requirement to compensate me for the annoyance? No. Do they have anything to gain by offering me some sort of compensation to keep me sweet as a customer while they get their service in order? Very possibly.

Operating a company, or a personal life, on the basis of minimum legal responsibility might stand up in legal court but it won't gain you many supporters in the real world.

And they did compensate you!


They took down the servers to provide fixes for the very reasons you listed above instead of waiting to implement those fixes at a later date.

That sir was compensation!

Hmmm, I think we may have different views on the meaning of 'compensation'

And we have yet to see if this resolves the issues or not since they seem unwilling to share what they have done assuming it was more than just another reboot of the farm.

@bongtokin420insd16 - gotta say since these latest set of issues started early this year (although peaking on events) I did wonder if they'd patched against Spectre/Meltdown and were seeing performance hits as a result. Perhaps looking to source the right level of hardware needed to plug the performance gap without over speccing. Eqaully depdning on their hardware cycle they could be nearing a renewal point with all the challenges that can present.

BlueViolet

I'd like the event to go a little longer, just for the outages, but not "compensation" as such.These things happen to MMO games, it's a simple fact. No one can forsee everything.

Kalante

Nermy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if you read through the T&C we all signed up to there is some clause that ZoS reserve the right to take the servers down whenever they please for a 'reasonable' time.

I think it will probably then go on to define what a 'reasonable' time is.

I remember, back in the mists of time, LoTRO going down for 5 days! Imagine what the forums where like demanding compensation, and you know what? They did. All subbers got 5 days free added to their accounts.

Taking the server down for a few hours os nothing.

Also, I agree with @Turelus, the way people DEMAND compensation is pathetic.

or how about when psn went down for a month in 2011.

Avalon

There is a major difference between “obligated to do something” and “does it because it is the right thing to do” or “does it because it costs you next to nothing, but builds customer loyalty”. If compensation is not provided, it risks the customer starting to think they are nothing but numbers on a chart, that the company feels they can lose you, and hundreds or thousands more, and not even flinch... that they feel, “hey, I’ve already gotten plenty of money out of you... you can go whenever, you don’t matter anymore”

They can easily purchase customer loyalty with stupid virtual tokens, like a hat, or a crate, or even 10 of those crown token things. Minor tokens of appreciation and signs of good faith go a LONG ways.

bongtokin420insd16

@Tavore1138 I thought about the cycle too, considering a 2 year cycle is not uncommon, and we would be seeing the end of that second cycle. It would also explain why major releases occur in June, likely coinciding with a new one.

Complete speculation mind you.

Edited cause i cant spell lol ....

Beardimus

Entitlement is a thing, that's growing in this world.

Online anonymity adds to it. Gamers add to it. Angry kids after free stuff add to it.

Stack it all up and here we are.

People entitled about the right to get all the worm cult, people entitled about Cyrodiil town quest boxes, people entitled about downtime. So it continues.

Marabornwingrion

yiasemi wrote: »

I need some panda eyes cream pls, or maybe a nice desk pillow.

I needed to google these things (I live in Central Europe)

ayu_fever

i dont expect, and i am not asking for any compensation.
i am a subber, and i buy crowns often.
i play the game too much as it is haha.

over the weekend i had some stability issues, but i think it was from high server traffic.
i dont ever pvp or do trials, or belong to guilds so i was just doing my own thing with questing and dungeons and skyshard hunting on an alt and still got lagged out quite a few times.

the event itself doesnt interest me. i play a little bit almost daily anyway so the double XP is nice, but i dont grind out dailies for a small chance at some silly motifs and recipes. just from uber casual playing i think i have had 7 or 8 boxes since the event started. they had mostly vegetables, but i wont complain because they were all freebies and i am not trying to get anything specific from the boxes.

i am not one of the entitled children that plays a game expecting it to be “always on” and demand something for free when it isnt. it is just a game. i enjoy it, but its not a big deal really.

Varidian

And there we have it lol someone in a comment above found the TnC that says it in black and white.

I'm gonna take this offline as and when i want, you cant cry about it...

that is what Zen are saying basically ;p

so lads, ladies and non binaries... suck it up and cope with the down time.

I personally have these alternative things called friends, family and hobbies.... they really work well during maintenance periods

NordSwordnBoard

Compensation exists, and has taken place in the past. I got 1500 crowns for reporting info about the never ending pvp load screens a while ago.

The best part was I didn't expect anything in return for giving them the requested info, other than pvp getting fixed.

I wouldn't have a problem if another platform got extra event time if they lost time due to maintenance.

This is an example of a serious consumer rights/compensation issue: https://jalopnik.com/goodyear-asked-a-judge-to-call-jalopnik-and-request-we-1825120219 (TLDR - journalists are trying to see if Goodyear has continued selling a defective tire and covered up the consequences to avoid financial loss)

Just to put things in perspective, I don't agree with consumers getting nickel and dimed by small monetary fees/disadvantages through fine print garbage.

ESO is recreational, and people need to understand that the righteous fervor one goes after a corporation letting people die to save money with isn't really applicable to a video game company.

Aebaradath

The entitlement threads are becoming tiresome.

Priyasekarssk

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

The entitlement threads are becoming tiresome.

Paid trolls . Yes of course.

preevious

Ah, the whiners won .. one full week is added on an already too long event ..
Here I can only hope we get a week-long maintenance ..

xbobx

Varidian wrote: »

Guys it's high time to accept that Zen are not obliged to give anything away... Be it tangible or digital. Yea it is a complete joke that we have lost so much play time and my god you couldn't make it up. But it is just a video game.

I pay for eso plus and I buy 5k crowns almost each week or two before anyone tries that "you don't pay" card

The cold truth is that Zen are not interested in taking time to do this. Especially in light of the fact other servers and platforms will as a result demand equal privileges.

The more you demand that they spend time creating cute little apology hampers for us lot detracts from the time and resources directed at maintaining the already unstable server... Would be nice if they homed in on that issue before anything else.

i hate people like you. Its because of people like you that gaming companies can get away with so much because "its just a video game"

If non video game companies tried to pull the crap that video game companies do they would be fined, and would end up out of business.

there is next to no consumer protections on this market, especially the digital market.

Anotherone773

Compensation is not the solution i look for, fixing the problems that are causing the reasons that people ask for compensation is what i want. I dont feel like i am being cheated because i lost a few hours of ESO plus playtime. I do find the lack of fixes for an ever growing numbers of issues while continuing to pump out shinies for people to buy to be annoying.

karekiz

There is nothing wrong with asking for a refund.

They know that the downtime sucked, that's why they extended the event for those who lost time. I doubt they will give you ZeniBucks, but they did the 2nd best thing honestly.

drmandarin

Varidian wrote: »

Guys it's high time to accept that Zen are not obliged to give anything away...

You may want to consider what "obliged" could mean before making such sweeping statements. They may not have any enforceable commercial obligation, but I think anybody would be hard pressed to defend a position that they don't have an ethical / moral obligation given their failure to deliver an advertised, paid-for service. Consumers are entirely within their rights to demand (and most consumer-rights legislation will explicitly use that word) compensation when they don't receive a service that they have paid for.

Varidian wrote: »

The cold truth is that Zen are not interested in taking time to do this. Especially in light of the fact other servers and platforms will as a result demand equal privileges.

You're clearly right that they're not interested. The reason you quote for that is short-sighted and irrational but nevertheless probably accurate. It's short-sighted and irrational because if they took the time and made the investment, the issues causing the demands would be more readily resolvable.

Varidian wrote: »

The more you demand that they spend time creating cute little apology hampers for us lot detracts from the time and resources directed at maintaining the already unstable server...

Rubbish. The many comments posted on these forums by users have no impact whatsoever on the people who are supposedly working on resolving the issues.

Varidian

xbobx wrote: »

Varidian wrote: »

Guys it's high time to accept that Zen are not obliged to give anything away... Be it tangible or digital. Yea it is a complete joke that we have lost so much play time and my god you couldn't make it up. But it is just a video game.

I pay for eso plus and I buy 5k crowns almost each week or two before anyone tries that "you don't pay" card

The cold truth is that Zen are not interested in taking time to do this. Especially in light of the fact other servers and platforms will as a result demand equal privileges.

The more you demand that they spend time creating cute little apology hampers for us lot detracts from the time and resources directed at maintaining the already unstable server... Would be nice if they homed in on that issue before anything else.

i hate people like you. Its because of people like you that gaming companies can get away with so much because "its just a video game"

If non video game companies tried to pull the crap that video game companies do they would be fined, and would end up out of business.

there is next to no consumer protections on this market, especially the digital market.

hate me all you want. I don't define how a business works, the business does you moron.

The are not obliged to give you jack. its in the terms and conditions they can put servers up down and all around all they want.... you pressed agree.