So COD mail fraud is still a thing.

Jayman1000

Elsterchen wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

At the risk of beeing scammed = loose everything offered. I think "loosing" 3 days (actually loosing 3 days requires a little more then just waiting for mail but if you think these 3 days are lost, ... ) and a lousy fee is much better then loosing everything.

Riskevaluation (the simple way):
a) 3 days wait + fee
vs
b) everything offered

= if fee < b) then a) is less risky then b)
or
= if fee > b) ... you need better stuff for trade

Really there is no point in argueing, the risk of loosing everything is obviously bigger then the risk of loosing a small fee.

edit: b) and is something fundamentally different

You can't "lose" everything or anything in a direct trade, there is no way for the scammer to cheat you to agree to the trade. You are in complete control. Direct trade is completely safe. One thing it can't prevent though is you agreeing to a trade you don't really agree to. But then just don't click that Submit button....

Beardimus

Spacemonkey wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Always try to do transactions in person via trade, and in the trade always wait until the other player has hit accept on their amount of Gold before you hit accept on your end. If you hit accept first, they can easily remove the gold and accept the trade without paying you. That gets people furious.

If you're buying, I've heard the opposite is true: that you shouldn't lock in the gold until they've locked in the item(s), or else you'll just be throwing away your coin if they decide to scam you by snatching it back. The best way to avoid massive jerks on both sides is to just join a trade guild with a kiosk in a high-traffic area. Sell your things, pay any membership dues that you agreed to, and leave if you don't intend to keep selling/be a productive member.

This is why many people have called for a two tiered agreement for these transactions. First tier both players lock in what they are offering then 2nd tier both accept. If one declines then both sides of the trade are reset.

And just to show that there are some decent people out and about...

I sent an item to a person meaning to COD it for 55K. I instead sent him the 55K and the item. He sent me back 110K without my having to ask.

I thought that was just common sense. Why would I lock in my side without the other having put anything? He could just accept my locked side without putting anything....

The moment something is changed, substracted, removed, added, the locks undo themselves and you have to re-lock. Like the trading window is MADE anti-scam. People that do get scammed are just in too much of a hurry or... [ personal opinion ]

So what if i'm waiting for you to put something in? @Spacemonkey (not trolling, just personally am unsure of the exact sequence - I've seen scammers flick the item in / out / in / out hoping to time you see it and hit submit)

Beardimus

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

but you risk getting scammed of the item / gold.

I'd prefer the chance of losing pocket change to a troll to losing a million gold item i'm afraid. Plus ZOS doesn't refund trade scam items, I've seen the posts before despite evidence given. i'll dig the thread out if I can

Hanokihs

Beardimus wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Always try to do transactions in person via trade, and in the trade always wait until the other player has hit accept on their amount of Gold before you hit accept on your end. If you hit accept first, they can easily remove the gold and accept the trade without paying you. That gets people furious.

If you're buying, I've heard the opposite is true: that you shouldn't lock in the gold until they've locked in the item(s), or else you'll just be throwing away your coin if they decide to scam you by snatching it back. The best way to avoid massive jerks on both sides is to just join a trade guild with a kiosk in a high-traffic area. Sell your things, pay any membership dues that you agreed to, and leave if you don't intend to keep selling/be a productive member.

This is why many people have called for a two tiered agreement for these transactions. First tier both players lock in what they are offering then 2nd tier both accept. If one declines then both sides of the trade are reset.

And just to show that there are some decent people out and about...

I sent an item to a person meaning to COD it for 55K. I instead sent him the 55K and the item. He sent me back 110K without my having to ask.

I thought that was just common sense. Why would I lock in my side without the other having put anything? He could just accept my locked side without putting anything....

The moment something is changed, substracted, removed, added, the locks undo themselves and you have to re-lock. Like the trading window is MADE anti-scam. People that do get scammed are just in too much of a hurry or... [ personal opinion ]

So what if i'm waiting for you to put something in? @Spacemonkey (not trolling, just personally am unsure of the exact sequence - I've seen scammers flick the item in / out / in / out hoping to time you see it and hit submit)

Right, it's like... If we're both waiting, the trade never goes through. And while the person is sometimes an obvious flicker, other times, they've gotten good at it. I agree that a double-lock feature would be great.

Kiralyn2000

The scam isn't losing the COD fee. The scam is that you're preventing the other person from selling their goods for 3 days - it's locked up in the mail system, so they can't sell it to anyone else, either.

edit: which is more trolling/griefing, than scam. Unless you've got some convoluted plot to control the market by trapping everyone elses' <rare item> in limbo while you sell yours.

Cpt_Teemo

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

The scam isn't losing the COD fee. The scam is that you're preventing the other person from selling their goods for 3 days - it's locked up in the mail system, so they can't sell it to anyone else, either.

edit: which is more trolling/griefing, than scam. Unless you've got some convoluted plot to control the market by trapping everyone elses' <rare item> in limbo while you sell yours.

Yeah that's what I hate really wish after 3 hours you had the option on your account to return a CoD'ed item to get it back faster, as an alternative to waiting not getting paid like agreed upon

Spacemonkey

Beardimus wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Always try to do transactions in person via trade, and in the trade always wait until the other player has hit accept on their amount of Gold before you hit accept on your end. If you hit accept first, they can easily remove the gold and accept the trade without paying you. That gets people furious.

If you're buying, I've heard the opposite is true: that you shouldn't lock in the gold until they've locked in the item(s), or else you'll just be throwing away your coin if they decide to scam you by snatching it back. The best way to avoid massive jerks on both sides is to just join a trade guild with a kiosk in a high-traffic area. Sell your things, pay any membership dues that you agreed to, and leave if you don't intend to keep selling/be a productive member.

This is why many people have called for a two tiered agreement for these transactions. First tier both players lock in what they are offering then 2nd tier both accept. If one declines then both sides of the trade are reset.

And just to show that there are some decent people out and about...

I sent an item to a person meaning to COD it for 55K. I instead sent him the 55K and the item. He sent me back 110K without my having to ask.

I thought that was just common sense. Why would I lock in my side without the other having put anything? He could just accept my locked side without putting anything....

The moment something is changed, substracted, removed, added, the locks undo themselves and you have to re-lock. Like the trading window is MADE anti-scam. People that do get scammed are just in too much of a hurry or... [ personal opinion ]

So what if i'm waiting for you to put something in? @Spacemonkey (not trolling, just personally am unsure of the exact sequence - I've seen scammers flick the item in / out / in / out hoping to time you see it and hit submit)

you wait till i put something and do not lock your side.

if i dont put anything and instead tell you to lock first, im trying to scam you.

Locking will unlock the moment any change is made on either side. so if you lock without them putting anything, they can lock with nothing put and run away with your locked side. If instead they input something, you will actually have to relock to complete the transaction.

the trade window really IS made anti-scam. its just a matter of understanding it. its always seemed clear to me but perhaps it isnt that clear and could use some help window on first time uses etc... in game...

jaws343

Spacemonkey wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Always try to do transactions in person via trade, and in the trade always wait until the other player has hit accept on their amount of Gold before you hit accept on your end. If you hit accept first, they can easily remove the gold and accept the trade without paying you. That gets people furious.

If you're buying, I've heard the opposite is true: that you shouldn't lock in the gold until they've locked in the item(s), or else you'll just be throwing away your coin if they decide to scam you by snatching it back. The best way to avoid massive jerks on both sides is to just join a trade guild with a kiosk in a high-traffic area. Sell your things, pay any membership dues that you agreed to, and leave if you don't intend to keep selling/be a productive member.

This is why many people have called for a two tiered agreement for these transactions. First tier both players lock in what they are offering then 2nd tier both accept. If one declines then both sides of the trade are reset.

And just to show that there are some decent people out and about...

I sent an item to a person meaning to COD it for 55K. I instead sent him the 55K and the item. He sent me back 110K without my having to ask.

I thought that was just common sense. Why would I lock in my side without the other having put anything? He could just accept my locked side without putting anything....

The moment something is changed, substracted, removed, added, the locks undo themselves and you have to re-lock. Like the trading window is MADE anti-scam. People that do get scammed are just in too much of a hurry or... [ personal opinion ]

So what if i'm waiting for you to put something in? @Spacemonkey (not trolling, just personally am unsure of the exact sequence - I've seen scammers flick the item in / out / in / out hoping to time you see it and hit submit)

you wait till i put something and do not lock your side.

if i dont put anything and instead tell you to lock first, im trying to scam you.

Locking will unlock the moment any change is made on either side. so if you lock without them putting anything, they can lock with nothing put and run away with your locked side. If instead they input something, you will actually have to relock to complete the transaction.

the trade window really IS made anti-scam. its just a matter of understanding it. its always seemed clear to me but perhaps it isnt that clear and could use some help window on first time uses etc... in game...

Exactly, don't hit lock until they put something in. Put your thing in, they put theirs in, then lock.

And if they are flicking an item in or out or refuse to put an item in until you lock, just leave the trade.

Jayman1000

Beardimus wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

but you risk getting scammed of the item / gold.

I'd prefer the chance of losing pocket change to a troll to losing a million gold item i'm afraid. Plus ZOS doesn't refund trade scam items, I've seen the posts before despite evidence given. i'll dig the thread out if I can

How do you risk getting scammed?? As I just pointed out you are in complete control of when you click that submit button. Please, elaborate exactly how you think you can get scammed out of items and gold in a direct trade??? No one is forcing you to click the Submit button, and you can clearly see which items and how much gold are being traded!?

kargen27

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

but you risk getting scammed of the item / gold.

I'd prefer the chance of losing pocket change to a troll to losing a million gold item i'm afraid. Plus ZOS doesn't refund trade scam items, I've seen the posts before despite evidence given. i'll dig the thread out if I can

How do you risk getting scammed?? As I just pointed out you are in complete control of when you click that submit button. Please, elaborate exactly how you think you can get scammed out of items and gold in a direct trade??? No one is forcing you to click the Submit button, and you can clearly see which items and how much gold are being traded!?

Some players have gotten very good at timing things so you click accept almost instantly after they remove the item/gold. It does happen even when you are paying attention. I always wait a few seconds before hitting the submit and there has been a few times when the other player removes his side of the trade. They then say sorry hit the wrong button and offer to trade again. When that happens it is time to move on. You are right that players can't remove items after you hit submit and that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about people who try to time when they remove the items right before you hit submit. If they hit a little late you never know they tried as the trade goes through. If they hit to early they have a reason planned as to why and if you aren't aware of the scam it sounds legit so again you don't know.

Either way COD or direct trade always check items real close. There are also players that will try and pass off low level gear as top level gear.

Cpt_Teemo

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

but you risk getting scammed of the item / gold.

I'd prefer the chance of losing pocket change to a troll to losing a million gold item i'm afraid. Plus ZOS doesn't refund trade scam items, I've seen the posts before despite evidence given. i'll dig the thread out if I can

How do you risk getting scammed?? As I just pointed out you are in complete control of when you click that submit button. Please, elaborate exactly how you think you can get scammed out of items and gold in a direct trade??? No one is forcing you to click the Submit button, and you can clearly see which items and how much gold are being traded!?

Cause some can run macro clickers behind the scenes happened all the time in GW1, where it would instantly swap out either currency or the item in with something of much lesser value faster than a millisecond so they can literally do it and time it almost perfectly of when your going to accept without knowing

Armatesz

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

COD is the most secure way of direct trade between players, and this is true for both the player offering an item as well as the player buying the item. I wish there was something similar for exchanging items.

This is not true. Direct trade is safer because the deal is made instantly and you don't risk loosing cod fee or precious time if a the receiver doesn't pay.

but you risk getting scammed of the item / gold.

I'd prefer the chance of losing pocket change to a troll to losing a million gold item i'm afraid. Plus ZOS doesn't refund trade scam items, I've seen the posts before despite evidence given. i'll dig the thread out if I can

How do you risk getting scammed?? As I just pointed out you are in complete control of when you click that submit button. Please, elaborate exactly how you think you can get scammed out of items and gold in a direct trade??? No one is forcing you to click the Submit button, and you can clearly see which items and how much gold are being traded!?

Some players have gotten very good at timing things so you click accept almost instantly after they remove the item/gold. It does happen even when you are paying attention. I always wait a few seconds before hitting the submit and there has been a few times when the other player removes his side of the trade. They then say sorry hit the wrong button and offer to trade again. When that happens it is time to move on. You are right that players can't remove items after you hit submit and that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about people who try to time when they remove the items right before you hit submit. If they hit a little late you never know they tried as the trade goes through. If they hit to early they have a reason planned as to why and if you aren't aware of the scam it sounds legit so again you don't know.

Either way COD or direct trade always check items real close. There are also players that will try and pass off low level gear as top level gear.

From what I seen most that do the pass off low level gear are ones that do it intentionally, but rarely are the ones that do it because they think they have something for someone for one of their characters.

Jayman1000

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Cause some can run macro clickers behind the scenes happened all the time in GW1, where it would instantly swap out either currency or the item in with something of much lesser value faster than a millisecond so they can literally do it and time it almost perfectly of when your going to accept without knowing

When items, or gold are removed or added, the submit for both parties are cancelled; so it is clearly visible if that happens. It's not possible to have a submit active, change items, have the submit cancelled, and activate submit again, all in a matter of a millisecond. Maybe that was possible in GW1, but you can't do it that fast in ESO because there is a delay between each of these actions. This means that you can see if the blue submit selection of the other party get removed for a short while. If that happens you will notice it so just check the items again.

Besides the argument that they "try to remove items just before you hit submit". This implies that they know very precisely when you are going to click submit, and of course they have no way of knowing when or if you will click submit. Again, if you just click submit mindlessly, then yeah, you can get scammed. But that's then because you are not paying attention.

But I will admit that the system could and probably should be made better with an extra final confirmation dialogue like: "these are items that will be traded, do you wish to complete the trade?" in this dialogue box the items should then be locked for both parties, and if one of the parties declines, then it goes back to the first trading screen. This would solve your concerns I think. But again, as it has become so very apparent in the course of time, streamlined casual business model being what it is, ZOS will never implement something so elaborate.

Armatesz

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Cause some can run macro clickers behind the scenes happened all the time in GW1, where it would instantly swap out either currency or the item in with something of much lesser value faster than a millisecond so they can literally do it and time it almost perfectly of when your going to accept without knowing

When items, or gold are removed or added, the submit for both parties are cancelled; so it is clearly visible if that happens. It's not possible to have a submit active, change items, have the submit cancelled, and activate submit again, all in a matter of a millisecond. Maybe that was possible in GW1, but you can't do it that fast in ESO because there is a delay between each of these actions. This means that you can see if the blue submit selection of the other party get removed for a short while. If that happens you will notice it so just check the items again.

Besides the argument that they "try to remove items just before you hit submit". This implies that they know very precisely when you are going to click submit, and of course they have no way of knowing when or if you will click submit. Again, if you just click submit mindlessly, then yeah, you can get scammed. But that's then because you are not paying attention.

But I will admit that the system could and probably should be made better with an extra final confirmation dialogue like: "these are items that will be traded, do you wish to complete the trade?" in this dialogue box the items should then be locked for both parties, and if one of the parties declines, then it goes back to the first trading screen. This would solve your concerns I think. But again, as it has become so very apparent in the course of time, streamlined casual business model being what it is, ZOS will never implement something so elaborate.

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

Jayman1000

Armatesz wrote: »

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

You just said it yourself: you can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept. If you can visually see it you can indeed stop yourself from clicking submit. But as I said, I will admit that this whole debacle could quite easily be fixed if ZOS would pull themselves together and just add a second locked confirmation dialogue. But that's probably never going to happen because they're busy maintaining the servers XD sorry, couldn't help myself. Nah as I said, ZOS seems reluctant to change existing systems to solve problems. They are probably super afraid they'll frack something up.

Armatesz

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

You just said it yourself: you can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept. If you can visually see it you can indeed stop yourself from clicking submit. But as I said, I will admit that this whole debacle could quite easily be fixed if ZOS would pull themselves together and just add a second locked confirmation dialogue. But that's probably never going to happen because they're busy maintaining the servers XD sorry, couldn't help myself. Nah as I said, ZOS seems reluctant to change existing systems to solve problems. They are probably super afraid they'll frack something up.

Okay you are not getting it.
You place an item
they place an item
right before you go click confirm they remove the item and then quickly click confirm and take your item
It is a real thing, so try and chill and realize what is being talked about. This whole discussion is literally about treating people justly.

Mureel

Sharee wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Always try to do transactions in person via trade, and in the trade always wait until the other player has hit accept on their amount of Gold before you hit accept on your end. If you hit accept first, they can easily remove the gold and accept the trade without paying you. That gets people furious.

If you're buying, I've heard the opposite is true: that you shouldn't lock in the gold until they've locked in the item(s), or else you'll just be throwing away your coin if they decide to scam you by snatching it back.

Its been a while since i've done a trade this way, but i remember that the "i agree with trade" checkbox auto-unchecked if the other party changed the content of their trade window after i clicked "agree". Meaning noone could "snatch back" their deal, because doing so required the other party to agree again(which they wouldn't, obviously).

If it does not behave like this, it certainly should, because otherwise either party can just wait until the other guy clicks agree, then remove their part of the deal and quickly hit agree, basically stealing stuff.

That's how Archeage (and i guess some other games) does it xD Not Here though.

Mureel

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Callum wrote: »

I honestly didn't know this , i recently came back to the game, haven't touched it in years since it wasn't my thing back then, so ive done all these events the past 2 weeks and gotten some sweet stuff to make me into a small millionaire , players requested something to be sent by COD , i was fine with that the fee was minor, what i didn't know is they can hold onto it for 30 days before i get my *** back, and they do this to sell their own items first or out of pure trollness.

I'm wondering, when will there actually be more swift and harsher punishments for *** like this.

I wouldn't actually call it a scam since the scammer dont get anything out of it (well except pure spite and joy of causing grief). More like trolling, as you pointed out; or griefing.

It's not 30 days, only 3 days. But that is how the current COD system works, the receiver have 3 days to pay or not. What I would like would be to set a custom COD time limit; then you could just set a few hours if you wanted. But streamlined casual business model being what it is you can bet that ZOS will never implement customization like that.

Yeah they did though, if they are trying to sell sam,e item - then they just took one out of the market.

SOME PEOPLE even link the item from the mail they asked to be COD'd and THEN try to flip the very item they've been COD'd and then pay the seller the lower price.

I cod NOTHING but cheap stuff/mats.

FloppyTouch

I would take my stuff missing for 3 days over the lost of the item or gold in a person to person trade any day. I'm on xb1 and people are very fast with trade to trade scams they practice with friends like a/cing. I only do my trades through CoD or guild traders and if the refuse to CoD then I say no ty and move on.

Merlin13KAGL

Armatesz wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

When this debate has come up before its been said you get the fee back when mail is returned. Never tested it myself. @Armatesz

But its still not a scam, trolling perhaps but if you the guy with a 2 million item to sell a few bucks don't matter.

It is still, the only 100% secure way to trade. People still get scammed in trade. You can pull out. You can't once it goes blue, sure but you have to wait. On a 2 million gold item who goes first? I wouldn't.

I will only trade in COD.

Yeah if you put a cod fee it is non refundable. You get no money back if they either don't take it or return it. I've tested it enough times to know that part. Just put a test output mail but don't send and see what higher amounts require and just know you don't get that money back.

@Armatesz @Beardimus
Not entirely true.

If they RTS the mail themselves (deny the COD), you lose the fee.

If the mail times out and returns on its own (3 days), you get a full refund.

Cpt_Teemo

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Cause some can run macro clickers behind the scenes happened all the time in GW1, where it would instantly swap out either currency or the item in with something of much lesser value faster than a millisecond so they can literally do it and time it almost perfectly of when your going to accept without knowing

When items, or gold are removed or added, the submit for both parties are cancelled; so it is clearly visible if that happens. It's not possible to have a submit active, change items, have the submit cancelled, and activate submit again, all in a matter of a millisecond. Maybe that was possible in GW1, but you can't do it that fast in ESO because there is a delay between each of these actions. This means that you can see if the blue submit selection of the other party get removed for a short while. If that happens you will notice it so just check the items again.

Besides the argument that they "try to remove items just before you hit submit". This implies that they know very precisely when you are going to click submit, and of course they have no way of knowing when or if you will click submit. Again, if you just click submit mindlessly, then yeah, you can get scammed. But that's then because you are not paying attention.

But I will admit that the system could and probably should be made better with an extra final confirmation dialogue like: "these are items that will be traded, do you wish to complete the trade?" in this dialogue box the items should then be locked for both parties, and if one of the parties declines, then it goes back to the first trading screen. This would solve your concerns I think. But again, as it has become so very apparent in the course of time, streamlined casual business model being what it is, ZOS will never implement something so elaborate.

They also both cancelled in Gw 1 trade system too but people still fell for it

Callum

Well i finally got my item back.

Would definitely refrain from trading with anyone from the account @purplesnowman185 / Artemisia Enyo

And yes i'd like the option to cancel a COD mail in the future i guess if the person hasn't accepted the COD within 3 hours.

Callum

lol i tried to mail the person afterwards on their ingame name, character has been deleted, so i guess that account is purposedly made for just griefing people with the COD system, now i definitely feel its validated to ban that account and IP ban him , why else make troll characters like that just to grief people.

Sharee

Armatesz wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

You just said it yourself: you can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept. If you can visually see it you can indeed stop yourself from clicking submit. But as I said, I will admit that this whole debacle could quite easily be fixed if ZOS would pull themselves together and just add a second locked confirmation dialogue. But that's probably never going to happen because they're busy maintaining the servers XD sorry, couldn't help myself. Nah as I said, ZOS seems reluctant to change existing systems to solve problems. They are probably super afraid they'll frack something up.

Okay you are not getting it.
You place an item
they place an item
right before you go click confirm they remove the item and then quickly click confirm and take your item
It is a real thing, so try and chill and realize what is being talked about. This whole discussion is literally about treating people justly.

That implies they know exactly when you are going to click confirm(otherwise they cant remove the item "right before").
So all you have to do is wait +-10 seconds after both sides placed their items to make it impossible to guess when you are going to accept. If during that time the other party removes their item, you know they just tried to trick you and cancel the deal.

Cpt_Teemo

Sharee wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

You just said it yourself: you can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept. If you can visually see it you can indeed stop yourself from clicking submit. But as I said, I will admit that this whole debacle could quite easily be fixed if ZOS would pull themselves together and just add a second locked confirmation dialogue. But that's probably never going to happen because they're busy maintaining the servers XD sorry, couldn't help myself. Nah as I said, ZOS seems reluctant to change existing systems to solve problems. They are probably super afraid they'll frack something up.

Okay you are not getting it.
You place an item
they place an item
right before you go click confirm they remove the item and then quickly click confirm and take your item
It is a real thing, so try and chill and realize what is being talked about. This whole discussion is literally about treating people justly.

That implies they know exactly when you are going to click confirm(otherwise they cant remove the item "right before").
So all you have to do is wait +-10 seconds after both sides placed their items to make it impossible to guess when you are going to accept. If during that time the other party removes their item, you know they just tried to trick you and cancel the deal.

Gw1 had a 3rd party program that would literally swap the item your trading to another of way lesser value and accept it as soon as the other person did literally a millisecond earlier

Sharee

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I'm on xbox na and I can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept so you get left with nothing. It is not a fake thing, it is quite real which leaves you a split second to highlight the character and report them.

You just said it yourself: you can visually see how someone can quickly take an item before you accept. If you can visually see it you can indeed stop yourself from clicking submit. But as I said, I will admit that this whole debacle could quite easily be fixed if ZOS would pull themselves together and just add a second locked confirmation dialogue. But that's probably never going to happen because they're busy maintaining the servers XD sorry, couldn't help myself. Nah as I said, ZOS seems reluctant to change existing systems to solve problems. They are probably super afraid they'll frack something up.

Okay you are not getting it.
You place an item
they place an item
right before you go click confirm they remove the item and then quickly click confirm and take your item
It is a real thing, so try and chill and realize what is being talked about. This whole discussion is literally about treating people justly.

That implies they know exactly when you are going to click confirm(otherwise they cant remove the item "right before").
So all you have to do is wait +-10 seconds after both sides placed their items to make it impossible to guess when you are going to accept. If during that time the other party removes their item, you know they just tried to trick you and cancel the deal.

Gw1 had a 3rd party program that would literally swap the item your trading to another of way lesser value and accept it as soon as the other person did literally a millisecond earlier

3rd party program or not, you can not swap item a millisecond earlier than the other party accepts if you do not know *when* the other party is going to accept.

The scam only works because the scammer counts on the victim to click accept as soon as possible. So don't do that. Wait a random amount of time (even a full minute if you want). That makes it impossible for him to guess the exact moment you are going to agree to the deal, and thus impossible for him to swap item "just before".

Saucy_Jack

Mureel wrote: »

Yeah they did though, if they are trying to sell same item - then they just took one out of the market.

SOME PEOPLE even link the item from the mail they asked to be COD'd and THEN try to flip the very item they've been COD'd and then pay the seller the lower price.

It's this. People looking to flip high ticket items will ask you to COD, and then before they accept, they'll go around in zone asking if people want to buy that item for a higher price. If they find someone, then they accept the COD and immediately flip; if they don't find anyone, then the COD just sits in their mail and gets eventually returned, while the original seller is out the postage, and the X number of days lost that they could have sold that item to someone who isn't a prick.

Jayman1000

Armatesz wrote: »

Okay you are not getting it.
You place an item
they place an item
right before you go click confirm they remove the item and then quickly click confirm and take your item
It is a real thing, so try and chill and realize what is being talked about. This whole discussion is literally about treating people justly.

Don't know what you mean with "try and chill", Im perfectly chill but I do like to participate in discussion. And perhaps you are the one not getting it, did you consider that? Your answer seems to assume that the scammer know when you will click Submit, so that they can switch an item out just a fraction of a second before you click. But 1: they don't know when /if you will click submit. 2: when they change out an item and click Submit it is not done instantly, you can visually see it happening.

But as I already acknowledged that ZOS should implement a second trade confirmation dialogue in which both parties were prevented from changing items. That will solve your woes and I have no problem with that, Im all for innovation and improving security and functionality. But I already described this in detail, so why am I repeating myself?

Grabmoore

Armatesz wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Google the meaning of scamming. He eventually just forgot about it. Why would a millionaire even care about a delayed return with small fee. Please only post real issues..... People these days...

The higher the requested gold, the more expensive it can get. Imagine asking for 2 million in cod.

So? Peanuts.

I would happily send a worm book for 2 million via C.O.D., that is, if my trade slots are full. Yes, I like paying taxes. Better safe, than sorry.

Beardimus

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

When this debate has come up before its been said you get the fee back when mail is returned. Never tested it myself. @Armatesz

But its still not a scam, trolling perhaps but if you the guy with a 2 million item to sell a few bucks don't matter.

It is still, the only 100% secure way to trade. People still get scammed in trade. You can pull out. You can't once it goes blue, sure but you have to wait. On a 2 million gold item who goes first? I wouldn't.

I will only trade in COD.

Yeah if you put a cod fee it is non refundable. You get no money back if they either don't take it or return it. I've tested it enough times to know that part. Just put a test output mail but don't send and see what higher amounts require and just know you don't get that money back.

@Armatesz @Beardimus
Not entirely true.

If they RTS the mail themselves (deny the COD), you lose the fee.

If the mail times out and returns on its own (3 days), you get a full refund.

Thanks @Merlin13KAGL that explains people reporting different things.