increasing dps on magblade ? pls help

Noctus

https://imgur.com/a/422yM
https://imgur.com/a/25Svo

this is my bad dps even tho i know i do a good rotation with my dots beeing up 100 % while the guy i got inspired by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1PrVjlEZGg deals more than twice as much which is confusing im also using julianos btw. im using no pots or ult with ult it would be around 24 k i guess which is still laughable. what astonishes me is that his dots seem to do most dmg and hit way harder than mine. highest hitting dot for me is 4 k while his is 7 k even if u consider no pots and lacking cp thats still alot im missing something and i cant figure it out can someone with experience pls help me

Update:

https://imgur.com/a/Lrzs6
https://imgur.com/a/OaT1s

even if u increase the result by 20 % becouse of the lacking cp u still dont even come close to 50 k dmg on assassins will so whats wrong there. eledrain was applied by the way

Sixty5

Firstly, you are missing 300-ish champion points, which is going to be a big DPS loss.

If you aren't using pots, then you are also missing out on major sorcery, the 20% from major sorcery is pretty big, and is multiplicative with your CP.

Apart from that your sustain is low, which also means that you aren't going to be keeping up a light attack rotation, and therfore your spectral bow procs are going to be off as well. Getting off three shots per cast is a pretty decent indication of a good rotaion.

It also looks like you are missing a Maelstrom Staff, which is also going to add another 2k or so DPS once you get your rotation down.

Apart from that, gold weapons, gold jewellery enchants, and nirn front bar.

Beyond that, it's all rotation.

Noctus

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Noctus wrote: »

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

No they wont. It's your rotation; I promise. It's really hard to go off that parse you gave because its only 40 seconds long and not a full pull. The first thing to do is to actually do a full parse with Potions, Ultimates, and Major Breech (are you running ele drain?). Until you post that, there is just no good way to compare the data.

A few general rules for a "near perfect" NB parse. If you can hit 40k on a 3 million, your time will be right around 75 seconds. In that time frame, most good nightblades will get 11-12 bow procs and 70 or so light attacks. Looking at your short parse, you frankly arent on pace for either, which means your weave and management of merciless resolve probably need work. No shame there, its what separates good players from bad/new players and what makes NB the toughest class to play.

As to DOT uptimes, again, hard to know without a complete parse, but remember just because you have a 100% uptime, doesnt mean its optimal. Only a handful of players in the game can effectively keep all their DOTs even close to that high, no offense, but you arent doing that. It is also certainly possible that you are actually over casting your DOTs. I wish my German was better because I am not totally sure what I am seeing with some of the stuff on our recap.

TLDR: A picture of a full parse would be really helpful, and a video of your rotation wouldnt hurt either. Nightblade is far an away the hardest class to play. It has a very high ceiling in the right hands, but a pretty low floor in others.

aero

Noctus wrote: »

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

The difference between 300 and 550-600 is huge for DD's, you'll gain A LOT of damage just by leveling up. I made the same experience with my first character (stam sorc). My rotation was almost perfect at CP 250 but I only dealt like 23-25K DPS. CP 720 added more than 15K DPS with the same gear including gold rings. Just keep leveling, you'll notice a massive damage increase once you hit 500+. Apart from this, are you sure that your rotation works properly? Mag blades have one of the most stressful rotations. How many spectral bows do you shoot?

Checkmath

a huge point also is, that nobody provides elemental drain for you, right?. that skill provides more penetration, so again a huge damage increase and resource return, which makes it easier to sustain.
the other point already were said: you should use spellpower pots on cooldown (you need the passives from alchemy to increasy the pot duration too), because they buff your regeneration, your spelldamage by 20% and gives 10% more crit as long you dont have mage light slotted. also the maehlstrom staff adds again a lot of damage to your light and heavy attacks. also you dont weave very much i think, light attacks between all skills are a huge damage part of the best dps parses.

Noctus

aero wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

The difference between 300 and 550-600 is huge for DD's, you'll gain A LOT of damage just by leveling up. I made the same experience with my first character (stam sorc). My rotation was almost perfect at CP 250 but I only dealt like 23-25K DPS. CP 720 added more than 15K DPS with the same gear including gold rings. Just keep leveling, you'll notice a massive damage increase once you hit 500+. Apart from this, are you sure that your rotation works properly? Mag blades have one of the most stressful rotations. How many spectral bows do you shoot?

thanks that cheers me up. its not just general dps but the dmg numbers the dots and spectral bow. its allmost twice the dmg on each ability while he have same magicdmg and same gear and thats what shocking me here. i also aplied debuff its just i didnt use potion thats the only difference here. but i dont think a potion would push my spectral bow from 28 k to 55 k ( atleast it seems unlikely )

Noctus

Checkmath wrote: »

a huge point also is, that nobody provides elemental drain for you, right?. that skill provides more penetration, so again a huge damage increase and resource return, which makes it easier to sustain.
the other point already were said: you should use spellpower pots on cooldown (you need the passives from alchemy to increasy the pot duration too), because they buff your regeneration, your spelldamage by 20% and gives 10% more crit as long you dont have mage light slotted. also the maehlstrom staff adds again a lot of damage to your light and heavy attacks. also you dont weave very much i think, light attacks between all skills are a huge damage part of the best dps parses.

pls check out my reply on aero and thank u for ur advice. i aplied elemental drain myself during testing dmg. yes i lack the spelldmg but is it rly 20 % ? still wouldnt be a huge increase thats from 28 k to 33 k for my spectral bow. yes i have magelight slotted btw

Checkmath

major sorcery buffs your spelldamage by 20%, not your damage done by 20%, thats not the same since ablities do not only scale with spelldamage, but also with max magicka (in the case of magicka abilities).
about the ele drain, sry didnt pay enough attention to combat metrics...

Noctus

Checkmath wrote: »

major sorcery buffs your spelldamage by 20%, not your damage done by 20%, thats not the same since ablities do not only scale with spelldamage, but also with max magicka (in the case of magicka abilities).
about the ele drain, sry didnt pay enough attention to combat metrics...

does that mean it wouldnt increase 20 % dmg wise but actually less ?

Septimus_Magna

The magblade rotation is difficult to get right, its a dynamic rotation which means you dont cast skills in the exact same order but when they almost run out. Most important dps skill is Merciless, you want to shoot at least 2 bow procs for each time you cast the buff. The best players manage to get off 3 bow procs but its very difficult.

A good add-on to track skill durations is Action Duration Timer. Without this its really hard to keep track of the DoTs and buffs while weaving Funnels and shooting spectral bows.

CP and gear is also a big factor. Gold infused fire staff with fire enchant on the front bar and gold infused fire staff with berserker enchant on the back bar are probably most important. Besides that, 3x gold spell dmg enchant on jewelry and at least purple gear quality in all divines.

A lot of it is plain and simple practice, you might think you nailed your rotation but there’s still room for improvement.

This is best magblades I know, just look at that rotation. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCpOMD3ttkb6aBMZCg43ykEQ

Checkmath

i never actually tested how much major sorcery makes a difference percentage wise. but i can swear on it, that it is a crucial component for proper dpsing and you will really feel the difference.

Noctus

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The magblade rotation is difficult to get right, its a dynamic rotation which means you dont cast skills in the exact same order but when they almost run out. Most important dps skill is Merciless, you want to shoot at least 2 bow procs for each time you cast the buff. The best players manage to get off 3 bow procs but its very difficult.

A good add-on to track skill durations is Action Duration Timer. Without this its really hard to keep track of the DoTs and buffs while weaving Funnels and shooting spectral bows.

CP and gear is also a big factor. Gold infused fire staff with fire enchant on the front bar and gold infused fire staff with berserker enchant on the back bar are probably most important. Besides that, 3x gold spell dmg enchant on jewelry and at least purple gear quality in all divines.

A lot of it is plain and simple practice, you might think you nailed your rotation but there’s still room for improvement.

This is best magblades I know, just look at that rotation. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCpOMD3ttkb6aBMZCg43ykEQ

look at the dmg of each skill thats the problem if the damage would be on par with the guy in the video i could reach 40 k or atleast come very close to it but his skills deal twice as much as mine compare his spectral bow or highest dots to mine the difference is mindblowing while he have the same equipment. i have gold infused staffs and 3-4 pieces of my gear are gold too. so i rly didnt expect the dmg gap to be that big its not the dps but skill dmg itself even tho he have same magicka dmg.

---

his skills compared to mine do 80% more damage that have nothing to do with rotation

---

Noctus

ill fire my spectral bow for u with all i got look at spell dmg value https://imgur.com/a/OaT1s

thats 4375

https://imgur.com/a/Lrzs6

36 k while target was debuffed and i was on my peak 4375 spell dmg

Sixty5

Noctus wrote: »

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

300 CP isn't going to be all of it, but it will help.

These are the stats that you are competing against

You can see that your spell damage is about 1k lower than his. When added up with all your damage amps, this is probably the key difference between your damage ticks.

I'm assuming you have eledrain up based on your regen, but not 100% on that. Adding it in would be a pretty decent DPS boost.

As for your parse:

First big issue is that your light weaving is bad.
You hit 21 light attacks in a 46 second parse, that number should be above 40.
Light weaves are massive on Magblade because of how strong Spectral Bow procs are.
You had 4/4 Spectral Bow procs, for a total of 2700 DPS. If you had better weaving, you'd have been able to double the number of procs, and potentially your DPS from the skill.

Noctus

Sixty5 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

300 cp would put my 4 k dot to 7 k ? thats allmost twice as much 0.0

These are the stats that you are competing against
.

check out my last post im allmost 700 higher than him. firing my spectral bow with 4375 and elemental drain on target gives me 36 k as result

https://imgur.com/a/Lrzs6
https://imgur.com/a/OaT1s

even if u increase the result by 20 % becouse of the lacking cp u still dont even come close to 50 k

besides alcast do 35 light attacks in 85 seconds u can look it up

Noctus

thought there is a bug with skills counting as rank 1 or smthing but my lightattacks suffer low dmg too so that cant be it. remember guys my staves are gold infused

Rair.Kitani

I'm in the same boat, I'm trying to use Alcasts Azure build and I'd like to improve my dps. I have a few ideas where to start. Nevertheless I would really appreciate if some of the magblade experts could take a look at my parse, to see if I'm on the right direction.

(full res picture is linked)

This wars on a 6m dummy, a guildemate provided ele drain. My approach to improve would be the following:

• Get more CP. Improve CP distribution (Was farming Armiger motif recently, did unlokc treasure hunter for that reason)
• Improve rotation.
  Although Light Attacks deal the most damage in this parse (12.2% fire + 5.4% shock) I feel that I'm missing out some. I'm also curios why I'm having 92% uptime on minor berserk, but two entries with 74% and 66% on merciless resolve. I get 2 progs per cast of merciless most of the time, but never three. Usually it runs out with 2 light attacks after second cast.
  I noticed I have only 63% uptime on major sorcery, I'm not used to dps with pots on cooldown tbh. For everyday dungeons runs its not really needed and to expensive in my opinion. Definetly need improvement here.
• Get better gear. I'm wearing Zaan, 5 pcs julianos, willpower jewlery all purple and golded maelstrom lightning staff nirnhoned backbar as well as random golded fire staff on front bar. Plan to get infallible aether or if I manage to find some trial group master architect. Once I get that, I plan to switch from Julianos to mechanical acuity.

Despite some telling that every dps with sub-optimal rotation and gear can get 30k easyly, I'm not quite there. Still I have the feeling that I'm not staight out bad. Even in the better premade groups I run with I usually get around 45% dps, In the few trials I've been yet, I got around 11%-13% on boss encounters. I feel that I'm a bit lacking aoe dps with the shadow path - elemental wall - shock HA combo I'm running.
Looking forward to your comments.

Noctus

Rair.Kitani wrote: »

the question here is how do ur skills do generaly more dmg with lower magicka and spelldmg ? can u share ur cp distribution?

Rair.Kitani

I really can't say out of the parse. Please note, that I indeed had a wrong glyph on my hat at this parse. Just transmuted the Zaan set, but still had a stamina glyph in
From your screenshot I noticed that we're in the same guild actually (Die Geruchsneutralen). We can talk on Teamspeak this afternoon if you like and compare our CPs. I'm planning to redistribute them anyway today, I'll try Alcasts 720CP distribution scaled down to my CPs.

FrancisCrawford

Some thoughts/questions/confirmations:

1. The usual formula is that damage is proportional to

(Spell Power) + 10.5 * (Max Magcka) for most skills

but

(Spell Power) + 40 * (Max Magicka) for basic (i.e. light or heavy attacks).

I'm not aware of any exceptions in a magblade rotation.

So it's straightforward to calculate a presumptive damage increase caused by an increase in Spell Power.

Are there any booby traps in that logic?

2. The formula for basic attack damage will change with Summerset. The new formula, to my knowledge, is not yet known.

3. Am I correct in assuming that

(# of light attacks) + 2 * (# of heavy attacks)

should be very close to the number of seconds in the parse?

If not, what would be a better formula?

4. Am I correct in assuming that the following are all additive to each other, rather than multiplicative?

• Each applicable damage buff from CP?
• Minor Berserk?
• Destro staff passive boosts to AoE (if lightning) or single target (if fire) damage?
• Any racial (Altmer or Dunmer) boosts to elemental damage?
• Maelstrom destro staff buff, if relevant?

5. What controls when the Maelstrom destro staff buff procs:

• Whether you cast Elemental Blockade from that bar?
• Whether you're on that bar at the moment?

I"m guessing it's the first, given all the fuss about the staff.

Rair.Kitani

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Some thoughts/questions/confirmations:
....
3. Am I correct in assuming that

(# of light attacks) + 2 * (# of heavy attacks)

should be very close to the number of seconds in the parse?
....

This is basically what most of us are aiming for, one of Alcasts 40k dps parses.
From that video, where he has 122 light attacks on a 142 seconds fight (1.2 sec per light attack), I assume that 1 LA per second is a bit high, or at least just happens with zero flaws and robot like timings.
https://youtu.be/BtYsxeVmGao?t=370
I got 102 fire LA and 50 lightning LA which equals to 1.6 sec per light attack. Could be worse, but still I see a ton of improvement to be done here.

Noctus

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

well the thing that destroys all logic here is that the guy who recently posted his parse here hits harder than me.

im at almost 44k magicka and 4375 spell dmg. he have 600 less spell dmg and 4 k less magicka becouse my gear is gold infused. yet he hits harder . my light attack 7 k his is 11 k my spectral bow is 36 his is 41. cmon mate there must be a logical answer to this

check out the updated dmg tests i did in which i buff up for assassins will and also try light attack dmg ull see its ridiculously low for such high stats

Rair.Kitani

Just have an idea! Did you use Soul Harvest Ult?
Edit: And for light attack damage, also Maelstrom buff comes in place

Noctus

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

well the thing that destroys all logic here is that the guy who recently posted his parse here hits harder than me.

im at almost 44k magicka and 4375 spell dmg. he have 600 less spell dmg and 4 k l

Rair.Kitani wrote: »

Just have an idea! Did you use Soul Harvest Ult?
Edit: And for light attack damage, also Maelstrom buff comes in place

look at the pictures
https://imgur.com/a/Lrzs6
https://imgur.com/a/OaT1s

thats the most i can get as for skilldmg without considering dps. lets just look at the general dmg my skills do with 4375 spelldmg and 43,6 k magicka. i used eledrain before i used spectral bow. light attacks also hitted the dummy with same buffs applied.

lets ignore dps and just concentrate on the dmg that skills and light attacks do. you see something cant be right here.

Rair.Kitani

You just can't isolate ability damage and compare our parses. Soul Harvest increases your damage to target by 20% for 8s, thats where the increase in absolute values come from.
Really, do a parse on a full fight, with full rotation and let's compare this.

Noctus

Rair.Kitani wrote: »

You just can't isolate ability damage and compare our parses. Soul Harvest increases your damage to target by 20% for 8s, thats where the increase in absolute values come from.
Really, do a parse on a full fight, with full rotation and let's compare this.

wait i looked into that soulharvest is a good point that atleast gives me 20 % but yet again while i tested it i used keena to further buff my spelldmg for the most possible dmg outcome of the skill and i have 600 more than alcast there. 20 % overall dmg is still more worth than the 600 spelldmg .that would boost my spectral bow from 36 k to 43 k but keep in mind thats still with 4375 spell dmg and 43,6 k magicka.
i record dps parse today when i have time. but it rly doesnt help me at all with my problem when the skills dont do enough dmg how am i suppose to do good dps

Rair.Kitani

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Some thoughts/questions/confirmations:
(Spell Power) + 40 * (Max Magicka) for basic (i.e. light or heavy attacks).

@FrancisCrawford
Just out of curiosity, I think this formula is off, especialle the 40* Max Magicka. It equates to 3832 + 40 * 39196. 40k Dps would be no problem then

For me, Max Magicka / 40 makes much more sense.
I did a quick calculation and the numbers doesn't seem too be to wrong:
Spellpwr + Magicka/40 = 3832 + 39196/40 = 4811,9
4812 + Maelstrom = 4812 + 1341 = 6153
With crit: 6153 + 6153*78% = 10952
With Soul Harvest: 10952 + 10952*0,2 = 13142 (actuall biggest LA: 11944 ~10% less than calculated)
This is where the penetration takes place, as far as I now The dummy has 18k def and I have only 11k pen, so not full damage will be applied. But I' really have no idea how this equates.

For @Noctus
Spellpwr + Magicka/40 = 4375 + 436056/40 = 4375 + 1090 = 5465
With Crit: 5465+5465*0,75 = 9563 (actuall biggest LA: 7665 ~24% less than calculated)
This makes me wonder if your biggest LA actually happend with major sorcery and spellpower glyph active.
If I take your average spelldmg instead of max, I get 8746 which is only about 14% off


At alcasts parse, I also see minor force buff from fighters guild burning trap (+ 10% crit dmg) + Minor Slayer (+5% damage in dungeons, but I don't know if this applies). He also uses the Lover mundus instead of apprentice, which is better for target dummies.
Stacking multipliers is at least as benefical as stacking stats.

But enough with number crunching. I would love so see a 6m parse from a magblade in the 30k-35k range.

Noctus

ok i need to experiment myself a little now i think i know where the problem is

The_Saint

Solution from german forum for the others here ;-)

20% major Sorcery (pots) Spelldamage
20% soul harvest
10% exploiter passiv (cwc parse from alcast is with offbalance)
8% Minor Vulnerability (lightning enchant frontbar)

+ cps, penetration, etc etc

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The_Saint wrote: »

Solution from german forum for the others here ;-)

20% major Sorcery (pots)
20% soul harvest
10% exploiter passiv (cwc parse from alcast is with offbalance)
8% Minor Vulnerability (lightning enchant frontbar)
=
58%
+ cps, penetration, etc etc

not how that buff works bucko.