Perfected item sets

starkerealm

thomas1970b16_ESO wrote: »

I am a little worried that the game will turn out to be for a very small percentage of people who have access to the best gear. Will it be perhaps 1% of the players? The skin and title should be enough incentive to do hard modes and achievements in trials . Zos said early on that crafted gear would be as good as dropped gear. I feel cheated out of that.

I can't speak to the new sets, but the difference between normal and perfected weapons in game right now is marginal. We're talking about effects lasting for 30 seconds instead of 27, or returning 15 ultimate instead of 14. The big difference between normal and perfected AS weapons was the color (and resulting bragging rights,) not the stats.

MehrunesFlagon

thomas1970b16_ESO wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

@Bbsample197 why should the already powerful become even more powerful? Do they need it?

Why should the already 'doing good' get better gear when they don't need it for the content they're doing?

Leaderboard scores.

Well if noone had perfected versions the playing field for score runs would be much more even, and skill would be what seperates people?

It already does.With the perfected weapons etc... the effect is increased is all.

veloSylraptor

Bbsample197 wrote: »

so you want every best items to be handed to with little effort? ye no, wheres the fun in that?
so youre pointing that coordinating and practicing with people on a harder content on an MMO isnt fun?

there are alot of alternatives for players who couldnt do it like myself the difference in power is minimal, is that just alot of ppl wants what they dont have

EDIT: no one is forcing you to do the harder content, "play the way you like", not "get the BiS items the way you like" theres a big difference

When has anyone asked for the best items to be handed with little effort? The only points being raised in this thread merely states concern over being artificially crippled because of their playstyles.

Again, those challenging content can have their unique things, so long as the effective power difference is minimized by the availability of perfectly viable alternatives elsewhere. The way things currently are, and with the Summerset update closing the gap between Trial weapons and other setups, I'm sure a lot of people find reasonable. The main concern being raised is to not make those an absolute insurmountable BiS.

Lets not be disingenuous here, if those items are made into a clear BiS without roughly equal alternatives, then yeah, you are effectively being forced into doing it. The structural facts of grouping (in Dungeons), where players may punish you for not having BiS items (again, if the disparity is large enough) and PvP will make your gameplay experience a lot worse without the clear BiS items. To say you can play the way you like with the existence of such systems conveniently ignores the structural and systemic pressures that will coerce people to do it.

Bbsample197

veloSylraptor wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

so you want every best items to be handed to with little effort? ye no, wheres the fun in that?
so youre pointing that coordinating and practicing with people on a harder content on an MMO isnt fun?

there are alot of alternatives for players who couldnt do it like myself the difference in power is minimal, is that just alot of ppl wants what they dont have

EDIT: no one is forcing you to do the harder content, "play the way you like", not "get the BiS items the way you like" theres a big difference

When has anyone asked for the best items to be handed with little effort? The only points being raised in this thread merely states concern over being artificially crippled because of their playstyles.

Again, those challenging content can have their unique things, so long as the effective power difference is minimized by the availability of perfectly viable alternatives elsewhere. The way things currently are, and with the Summerset update closing the gap between Trial weapons and other setups, I'm sure a lot of people find reasonable. The main concern being raised is to not make those an absolute insurmountable BiS.

Lets not be disingenuous here, if those items are made into a clear BiS without roughly equal alternatives, then yeah, you are effectively being forced into doing it. The structural facts of grouping (in Dungeons), where players may punish you for not having BiS items (again, if the disparity is large enough) and PvP will make your gameplay experience a lot worse without the clear BiS items. To say you can play the way you like with the existence of such systems conveniently ignores the structural and systemic pressures that will coerce people to do it.

theres really no point on acquiring better gears if the power is too minimal as what you said, the game will dry out too fast, thats the problem were currently having right now, most ppl wont do harder content like vAS hm if the difference in power are so minimal, why even bother creating Hard mode if everything would just have a minimal differences

esoRevan

I do understand/support good items being locked behind difficult content. Getting rewarded after working really hard is satisfying and keeps me motivated (e.g. finishing vMA for the first time). Now there is always a threshould where there are people that can complete the content and that cant. For vMA its low - based on the whole playerbase. What i do have problems with is with the rewarding system in vAS. I like the system of perfected and unperfected weapons but i think there should be a chance of them dropping in vAS+1. Now that can be low (5-10%) but it would be at least rewarding for groups who want to work for vAS+2.

veloSylraptor

Bbsample197 wrote: »

theres really no point on acquiring better gears if the power is too minimal as what you said, the game will dry out too fast, thats the problem were currently having right now, most ppl wont do harder content like vAS hm if the difference in power are so minimal, why even bother creating Hard mode if everything would just have a minimal differences

Well, as I previously mentioned, the point of creating difficult content is to make it available for the people who want to enjoy difficult content, to be challenged, meet the challenge and overcome it. Is this not the point being raised by the people who usually call for difficult content? They want the struggle and the satisfaction of overcoming that struggle? In this way, challenge is its own reward. Now, you can add more stuff like titles, costumes, and even unique weapon (with unique effects) like the game already does to further incentivize other players to try it.

If we go back to the opening post, the main concern being raised, is whether or not the system marginalizes players who don't participate in those activities, by way of group content ostracizing (because they don't have the so called "BiS" gear) or PvP (obviously, by making them noticeably weaker than those who do.) That is where my earlier arguments (and probably the concerns of some people) against overpowering BiS gear comes from. A concern for the consequences of such a system.

Personally though, given that they seem to be reducing the disparity between trial weapons and other sets with the new two handed weapon changes, I don't think we need to worry that much. At this point, we can probably wait for the PTS and see from there what merits further discussion.

xaraan

The main problem with the "Perfected" thing is that they either make the content so hard that only 1% of the players get the gear, which means it isn't made that much stronger and therefore not really worth the effort. Or they make the HM's easier and the weapons more worthwhile so a decent number of players can attain them.

At this point you are essentially doing vAS HM for the skin and titles, because the weapons really aren't all that (and you can get them from leaderboard placing as well, even if you don't do HM).

As for the 'locking gear behind pvp or pve' crying I always see. I don't care. This is not a pvp game, it's not a pve game. It's both. If you choose to only do one thing, that's on you, not ZoS.

However, I do think locking content behind a 12 man trial can make it much harder. It's not asking much for someone that loves pvp to have to do 4 man dungeons or MA or some questing; however I've always said the hardest thing about trials is just getting a group of 12 people together at the same time, willing to do something over and over failing each week and getting nothing from it to eventually get a run down. So expecting a pvp'er to be able to jump in and get that done is asking a lot more especially since that's hard even for someone that PvEs all the time.

But if the perfected item is going to be a "meh" upgrade from non, then who cares. I have perfected and non perfect of Asylum gear and it literally makes no noticeable difference in any of them except for maybe the destro if you are running a Force Pulse build. At this point it isn't much more than a skin to say you have a perfected version, they may as well take them out if they aren't going to be worth the effort.

Ectheliontnacil

glavius wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

best items should be rewarded to the best players even if its just 1% of the playerbase


You dont need a perfected item sets if youre just playing casuals, you dont need gold items if your just doing normal content in the game


if you want to get a perfected item then be ready to put an effort to it, if not then be happy from what you get, i dont get why alot of players are complaining about that best items being locked on harder content ie vMA or vAS HM (heck the perfected verions of asylum isnt that far to the imperfected ones)

Yea let's put the best pvp weapons (in some cases) behind 100s of hours of pve

OMG YES!!!

Back in the day I knew players who had to do like 200+ vMA runs just so they could get that sharpened 2h, which would make their build viable.
The vAS staff is similarly op for magicka classes and it's even harder to obtain. Pvp players, even hardcore ones, don't want to join top tier raiding guilds with weekly run requirements and farm completely dull content for months just to get the asylum staff.
It's not about casuals wanting BiS gear, that they don't need. It's about forcing top tier pvp players, to spend most of their time in pve just to get the BiS weapons for a specific build. Just imagine the riots we'd have if BiS pve sets were only available to players with the grand overlord rank.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Bbsample197 wrote: »

veloSylraptor wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

you know why the best gear are locked in harder content?? it not for the top players only

its for everyone to continually achieve that goal! i myself is still trying hard to succeed on vMA and other DLC dgn content on the game, if the rewards on those harder content will be worth it then im sure going to strive harder for it!!

this game isnt giving best items to TOP players to make them more powerful, theyre still learning the mechanics on every new content like us!!

what differs the TOP players from others is their dedication and their persistent practice on the said content! theyre no better than us really they just practice more and more!

someone argues that they dont have much time to play, and so be it! dont chase with the high end gears!! you dont have that time to play after all, im an example on this im to busy on my studies and my ping is too high to go through those hard content. i dont have the time to do vMoL or vHoF but i just sucked it up knowing i wouldnt get it.

i love games who reward their players through their efforts and devotion and not through their wallets

So the point is to coerce people into doing something they may not enjoy? yeah, no.

Like I said, I don't mind a little bit of incentive being given to complete those content, but there is a difference between incentives and coercion. Making unique builds that perform a bit better than gear obtained outside of those difficult content, yeah sure that's an incentive (kinda). But to make those items a definite BiS and then hold them hostage to certain content is no other than coercion.

That's not even considering pvp yet, where power disparity enforced by a totally unrelated system is a bad idea.

Which is still not even considering players which may for whatever reason are not able to complete the content.

so yeah, you can argue that its not being done to give content to the top players, but that is the effective consequence of this, so it really doesn't matter whether or not that is why its being done, only that it is being done this way, and it is having this consequence.

Again just to clarify, I don't mind those content having some special items for them, so long as there are perfectly viable alternatives for players who cannot or just don't want to complete them.

so you want every best items to be handed to with little effort? ye no, wheres the fun in that?
so youre pointing that coordinating and practicing with people on a harder content on an MMO isnt fun?

there are alot of alternatives for players who couldnt do it like myself the difference in power is minimal, is that just alot of ppl wants what they dont have

EDIT: no one is forcing you to do the harder content, "play the way you like", not "get the BiS items the way you like" theres a big difference

Your idea of fun is not my idea of fun.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Bbsample197 wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

@Bbsample197 why should the already powerful become even more powerful? Do they need it?

well theyve deserved to get it, theres really no point on complaining if you would just do the harder content isnt that right?? im not saying its easy to obtain them thats why there should be more incentive on harder conten to actually do them, lets be honest here the perfected items on vAS is not that far on the imperfect ones so theres no point on doing it aside from score runs but after that no point in grinding.

same question goes for casuals like me or the majority of the player do we really need those perfected items?

They can have a skin or some other vanity item to show off. That should be enough.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Bbsample197 wrote: »

you know why the best gear are locked in harder content?? it not for the top players only

its for everyone to continually achieve that goal! i myself is still trying hard to succeed on vMA and other DLC dgn content on the game, if the rewards on those harder content will be worth it then im sure going to strive harder for it!!

this game isnt giving best items to TOP players to make them more powerful, theyre still learning the mechanics on every new content like us!!

what differs the TOP players from others is their dedication and their persistent practice on the said content! theyre no better than us really they just practice more and more!

someone argues that they dont have much time to play, and so be it! dont chase with the high end gears!! you dont have that time to play after all, im an example on this im to busy on my studies and my ping is too high to go through those hard content. i dont have the time to do vMoL or vHoF but i just sucked it up knowing i wouldnt get it.

i love games who reward their players through their efforts and devotion and not through their wallets

You assume that what drives you is the same thing as what drives other people. I do not agree.

thomas1970b16_ESO

Bbsample197 wrote: »

theres really no point on acquiring better gears if the power is too minimal as what you said, the game will dry out too fast, thats the problem were currently having right now, most ppl wont do harder content like vAS hm if the difference in power are so minimal, why even bother creating Hard mode if everything would just have a minimal differences

Dry out for whom? The 1% who needs this incentive to continue playing?

SJD_Phoenix

Bottom line is, with jewelry crafting you’ll all have your wish next patch.

You will no longer have to run Vet Anything unless you want perfected asylum weapons, vMA or master weapons, because you’ll be able to upgrade anything you pick up.

I still don’t get why so many feel they require BiS gear. Maybe it’s because BiS gear is a bit of a misnomer, it’s more “absolutely only required for the top 1% of content gear” rather than best for all. People completed vMoL without Alkosh once and people completed vHoF without master architect and war machine once.

BiS gear won’t make you untouchable. If you’re not good enough for that content then no gear will help.

And for the person that keeps talking about different playstyles, I guess it is a difference in playstyle; with the exception that the top 1% have spent hours on end perfecting their “playstyle” vs your one or two hours a week. I’m not judging you for that, that’s fine, but it’s a little insulting suggesting it’s just a playstyle difference when other players work so hard for the top top achievements.

ak_pvp

I heard that the gear this time is directed at PvP since summerset features no PvP content, so they want to sell it via psijic+PvP sets. Note: Only heard in guild chat, no conformations.

VexingArcanist

Bbsample197 wrote: »

best items should be rewarded to the best players

What is your definition of the best player(s)? Those who defeat scripted boss encounters repeatedly?

I have a different take on that.

Tabbycat

If this stuff doesn't already drop BoE, perhaps it should. Then high end players could sell off the pieces they don't want to players that don't want to do the content and make a small fortune in the process. But then why bother to do the content if you could just buy the pieces? Soon no one would do the content so the argument would be irrelevant anyway.

As a casual, I have no problems with getting rewarded for the effort you put into something. Therefore, if there is another way to get it, the alternate method should be just as difficult as doing the trials. Otherwise it's a big middle finger to those who actually worked to earn it.

Aesthier

thomas1970b16_ESO wrote: »

Zos said early on that crafted gear would be as good as dropped gear. I feel cheated out of that.

I am right there with you but in ESO's defense, they never said "when" crafted would be as good as dropped gear.

Bbsample197 wrote: »

i love games who reward their players through their efforts and devotion and not through their wallets

I am right there with you on that statement, however...

What happened to rewarding players who spent countless months researching every single trait and motif on every set of gear...

Oh, that's right they began selling motifs and research scrolls on the crown store and letting crafted gear fall by the wayside.


How enjoyable would your playstyle be if they began selling all the BiS dropped or in-game purchasable gear (keys, AP, Gold etc..) on the crown store?

I get that current BiS is replaced on a rotating basis so why not come out with new equal crafted in that same rotation style.

veloSylraptor

Tabbycat wrote: »

If this stuff doesn't already drop BoE, perhaps it should. Then high end players could sell off the pieces they don't want to players that don't want to do the content and make a small fortune in the process. But then why bother to do the content if you could just buy the pieces? Soon no one would do the content so the argument would be irrelevant anyway.

As a casual, I have no problems with getting rewarded for the effort you put into something. Therefore, if there is another way to get it, the alternate method should be just as difficult as doing the trials. Otherwise it's a big middle finger to those who actually worked to earn it.

Yeah, that would be a great compromise between accessibility and rewarding players who complete difficult content.

Septimus_Magna

First things first, everyone that cannot complete vet trails HM gets a gear buff with Summerset. Blue jewelry can get upgrades to gold.

Second, players who cannot complete vMA get a major gear buff because their back bar weapon counts as two items, losing less dps.

Third, we dont even know what the difference between imperfect and perfected gear sets will be. Personally I think it should be at least 20%. For example, if you look at the Asylum 2H the difference is only 6.7% so there’s no need to get the perfect version.

And finally, we dont know if the item sets will be good. I heard Gilliam say its basically all proc sets so they’re not that strong because they cannot crit.

Merlin13KAGL

Most_Awesome wrote: »

I'm fine with high end PvE gear dropping in hard mode trials aslong as it would have no effect what so ever in PvP, make them like the Marksman set but only against NPC.

Or give us the option to buy them with AP

There needs to be zero option to buy PvE gear with AP. There also needs to be zero option to buy PvP gear with gold.

There should be an option for comparable gear obtainable on both sides by the appropriate method.

If there was a similar PvP equivalent to PvE set X, you wouldn't feel the need to buy PvE set X, nor run the content unless you wanted to. Same goes for PvE'ers trying to obtain certain PvP gear.

Onefrkncrzypope

This thread is going to be locked because it's going down in flames. The reason that perfected gear is there is for the one percent. They need a carrot too guys. Like I understand the hostility when it comes to finding a group for prog and the requests from those groups seeming outrageous and etc but being upset that the endgamers(people who put hours into rotations and millions into CP research (console pleb)) having something to farm is a bit much. Look ZoS wants everyone to be excited about thier expansions so let this go.

ZeroXFF

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

doesn't bother me much,but do think the perfect should drop from vet versions,and not just the hardmode.

This. With JC there is absolutely no point running non-hm vet trials if the perfected items don't drop there. HM has always been about skins and titles and it should stay that way.

MaleAmazon

IMO they got it right with Asylum weapons. I havent done it on vet, but the difference in weapon quality doesnt seem that big and the weapons are tied to specific circumstances.

Maelstrom is a bit worse. I keep getting the stuff I dont want, it takes some time to complete it, and at least one guide recommended that I used Maelstrom weapons to complete Maelstrom arena ... bit of a catch-22 there...

Vet players and minmaxers need a carrot, but you just need to put in a small quality difference rather than only giving stuff in vet.

I mean, people talk about 'utter trash sets' when their DPS goes down 1.32% so...

purple-magicb16_ESO

thomas1970b16_ESO wrote: »

I am a little worried that the game will turn out to be for a very small percentage of people who have access to the best gear. Will it be perhaps 1% of the players? The skin and title should be enough incentive to do hard modes and achievements in trials . Zos said early on that crafted gear would be as good as dropped gear. I feel cheated out of that.

Agree. I was there too and feel the same way. Crafting is so easy and common that I think they're afraid to make it as good or better than drops. They've gone too far now to back up on this. Crafted sets are for those that don't have the time or couldn't be bothered to farm dropped sets. No one pays for crafted gear anymore and the way they flood the market with motifs no one ever will. It's so easy to level up crafting skills that the truely dedicated crafters only hope was style motifs in order to sell their wares. Now that's gone too. Unfortunately I think crafted gear will always be inferior to dropped sets.

badmojo

The PVP factor really messes with this topic. If these 'best' items were PVE only I wouldnt care about them at all. But in PVP we are being damaged by these weapons all the time, we are forced to enagage in DPS races againt these items all the time. They are in some cases the best items for PVP, but they can not be obtained in PVP, to me that is horrible design and it forces players into content they do not enjoy for an extremely long amount of time. Imagine the outrage from PVEers if these items were locked behind Cyrodiil leaderboard position. Being forced to spend every waking moment in Cyrodiil grubbing for every little AP tick you can get for the entire campaign, just to get an RNG chance for a best item to drop in your rewards.

What?!? You dont want to spend months PVPing so your trails guild can place on a leaderboard? That is understandable. I don't want to spend months finding, joining, and training with a trials guild so I can run vAS a couple times to get a weapon, so I can make Cyrodiil a competition of my skill, not my gear.

People might dismiss this post as me just being lazy. So I am going to make an effort to actually join a trials guild with the goal of getting a perfected weapon. I have played thia game since beta, I have 15 characters (only 1 non vet) but I only have a couple PVE builds, and I have never set foot inside a trial, I have never completed vMA, and I have only done a few DLC vet dungeons. Its not that I can't do PVE, I just don't love it, and we only have so much time on this earth and even leas free time to play videogames. Point being, I am far from a desirable recruit for top trials guilds. But, in order to be competitive in the one aspect of this game I enjoy the most (cyrodiil) I am being pushed into the most difficult content which requires me to somehow get myself into a guild that can complete it.

But lets see where this rabbit hole leads me.

Any good trials guilds on PC/NA want to take me in and teach me the ways of PVE? Username is @badmojo420