Why the strife nerf is a bad idea!

Ectheliontnacil

In short: Because it *** over nightblades in Pvp.

The cost increase to strife and its morphs is one of the largest nerfs to any skill in a long while. Now that it costs roughly the same as force pulse/crushing shock, there is very little reason to continue using it. While spamcasting strife, you will lose out on approximately 1000-1400 regen (don't know the exact cost increase) and even while using a normal pvp/pve rotation I would estimate a recovery loss of about 300-500. These numbers are huge! And bear in mind that these massive nerfs hit a class that was never op in openworld pvp. And if you wanted to nerf bomblades, this didn't affect them at all.

It's the brute force approach to balancing magblades in PvE...you don't simply nerf a skill, on which the class heavily depends, into the ground because the class is slightly overperforming in PvE.
I really hope they revert these changes and adjust magblade dps by making it impossible to fire the spectral bow after 4 light attacks (by weaving before the bow proc) or something else. But don't nerf a class severely that is already weaker than other classes in pvp.

Magblade sustain wasn't great as it was. Their spammable shield costs 4k, for sorcs it's not even 3k.

And lastly I ask you to consider this. Even if the nerf is not that bad, even if you can make it work with force pulse instead of strife, why do they need to rob us of a unique and cool looking class ability and replace it with a generic weapon skill. I thought this patch was meant to increase class diversity...and they're already failing before the pts even goes live.

Yakidafi

Why did you make a 2nd topic that is less readable than your first one?

Your first topic was actually good.

TheUndeadAmulet

You gotta admit strife was pretty op... Cheap costing spammable damage ability that also heals for a portion of the damage dealt? It also provided ultimate in form of passives...

Skander

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

You gotta admit strife was pretty op... Cheap costing spammable damage ability that also heals for a portion of the damage dealt? It also provided ultimate in form of passives...

Strife is the only reason a magblade lives. Becouse dampen and Hardened ward aren't enough for tanking, and in heavy....you don't even have hardened ward.

Ectheliontnacil

@Mannix1958

I one thread I was talking about changes to magicka nighblade in general. In this thread I am addressing solely the strife nerf.

ccfeeling

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

You gotta admit strife was pretty op... Cheap costing spammable damage ability that also heals for a portion of the damage dealt? It also provided ultimate in form of passives...

NB skills link each other, Ultimate regen passive so what? All classes have special passive,
DK Combustion
Increases the damage of your Burning and Poisoned status effects by 50%
Sorc Energized
Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.

We all weaving our class perk skills, dont u?

Strife nerfing will destroy this class, weaving force pulse? Hell no

Marabornwingrion

100% agree.
Read your players feedback, ZOS.
@ZOS_Wrobel
@ZOS_MattFiror

Narvuntien

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

pieratsos

Players: NBs are OP. Incap and cloak need some adjustments.
ZOS: Ok we got it. We are going to nerf strife for the 45982301th time cause why the hell not.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

PLEASE RETHINK THE STRIFE NERF. PLEASE.

NERFS TO STAMBLADES ARE NEEDED, NOT MAGBLADES THAT ARE ALREADY UNDERDOG IN CYRODIIL

Ectheliontnacil

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

PLEASE RETHINK THE STRIFE NERF. PLEASE.

NERFS TO STAMBLADES ARE NEEDED, NOT MAGBLADES THAT ARE ALREADY UNDERDOG IN CYRODIIL

THANK YOU!!!

It's so true though. It is as if someone were to nerf magden to the ground while leaving stamden completely untouched.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we removed some baiting comments. This is a friendly remind to stay on topic and not derail the thread with non-constructive comments or personal insults. If the thread derails we will consider closing it. Feel free to read through our forum rules if you have any questions. Thank you for your understanding.

Ectheliontnacil

@ZOS_JesC

Thank you!

Sadly so many threads that seek to discuss class balance are derailed by people who want to troll or don't agree with your views. Insults are often confused with valid arguments, I guess that's a problem on many forums.

Ectheliontnacil

@itzTJ

Care to elaborate?

Perhaps it has escaped my attention but I don't think you're the only ESO player to achieve omniscience, thus being able to render judgement that cannot be questioned and does not have to be explained.

MehrunesFlagon

Real reason it is a bad idea is because less than a year ago most were forced into builds that required more heavy attacks.While it may not be 100% free of heavy attacks atm, it is a hell of alot better than other classes. You would think after all the people saying they hate using heavy attacks/they suck zos would get it.

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO

I'm tired of just changing the class NB.
All the time nerf and nerf. I really want to say a lot to the bad people who invented it from the developers. VERY MUCH BAD! Have you forgotten what YOU did with the dragon knight a long time ago? Now the queue is NB? Enough already to listen to whiners from PvP. Is it because of their complaints? These people did not bring anything good in the game in all 4 years. Only nagging and the destruction of classes. Separate PvP from PvE. Nothing is common with them and there will be no whining. And strange! Why do you make the sorcerer's class even stronger ????? You ZOS play them ?? I saw that your team can not go through content that they themselves did. You will not help more power from the sorcerer! Do not touch NB, then what you want to do will break this class. Who invented this?!!
P.S -
I hope the program-translator provided a readable text.

MrDenimChicken

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

in group PVP (everything except dueling really) magNBs don't perform nearly as well. Their burst entirely relies on incap + assasin's will and that is not on demand, whereas StamBlades have the burst to take people down with their on demand skills (poison inject + cloak + heavy/incap + surprise + execute is enough). And in a group setting magNBs are always focused first since cloak is not reliable when multiple people are on you and shield stacking isn't enough against multiple people. Shadow image is pretty much a necessity to get out of there. But magNB isn't effective at just weaving dmg from a distance when there are multiple people overlapping each other and your weaving is just hitting different people every time. So essentially MagNB's become useless in BG's and that's why you see very little of them.

Stam NB's can roll around on the outskirts of fights, quickly go in, get a nice incap/surprise/execute combo in and take someone down, quickly get out, and keep taking out targets individually. Their burst within that 3 second window of coming out of stealth is massively better than a mag NB's, and that allows them to be great in small scale group fights.

Silver_Strider

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO wrote: »

I'm tired of just changing the class NB.
All the time nerf and nerf. I really want to say a lot to the bad people who invented it from the developers. VERY MUCH BAD! Have you forgotten what YOU did with the dragon knight a long time ago? Now the queue is NB? Enough already to listen to whiners from PvP. Is it because of their complaints? These people did not bring anything good in the game in all 4 years. Only nagging and the destruction of classes. Separate PvP from PvE. Nothing is common with them and there will be no whining. And strange! Why do you make the sorcerer's class even stronger ????? You ZOS play them ?? I saw that your team can not go through content that they themselves did. You will not help more power from the sorcerer! Do not touch NB, then what you want to do will break this class. Who invented this?!!
P.S -
I hope the program-translator provided a readable text.

Let's get one thing very clear; The Strife and Twisting Path nerf were made solely on the basis that Magblade is currently overperforming in PvE content in comparison to other magic specs there, even Magsorc. The changes to Empower might be detrimental to gank builds in PvP so their might be some fewer complaints in regards to NB but overall, these changes are solely on PvE performance as far as I can tell and while separating PvP and PvE would be better for the game in the long term, this particular instance of nerf doesn't help the argument of separating the 2.

ecru

Breaks in the magblade rotation to heavy attack will lower the dps a tremendous amount due to how reliant the class is on both light attacks and assassin's will, which make up about 35% or more of their dps. Won't be much reason to play magblade if it comes to this.

Ectheliontnacil

@ecru

This is a pvp discussion mostly. But you're absolutely right. If magblades can no longer sustain their light attack rotation, their dps goes from best (by a small margin) to one of the worst of magicka classes.

Nerfing twisting path on the other hand is a great idea. You can adjust the damage as you like until magblades are on par with other classes in pve. This won't affect the rotation however and this won't affect pvp (since nobody uses twisting path).

kyle.wilson

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

in group PVP (everything except dueling really) magNBs don't perform nearly as well. Their burst entirely relies on incap + assasin's will and that is not on demand, whereas StamBlades have the burst to take people down with their on demand skills (poison inject + cloak + heavy/incap + surprise + execute is enough). And in a group setting magNBs are always focused first since cloak is not reliable when multiple people are on you and shield stacking isn't enough against multiple people. Shadow image is pretty much a necessity to get out of there. But magNB isn't effective at just weaving dmg from a distance when there are multiple people overlapping each other and your weaving is just hitting different people every time. So essentially MagNB's become useless in BG's and that's why you see very little of them.

Stam NB's can roll around on the outskirts of fights, quickly go in, get a nice incap/surprise/execute combo in and take someone down, quickly get out, and keep taking out targets individually. Their burst within that 3 second window of coming out of stealth is massively better than a mag NB's, and that allows them to be great in small scale group fights.

If you think magblades don't perform well in groups, you don't pvp.
They are the core dps for almost every ball group on pc/na.

Edziu

kyle.wilson wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

in group PVP (everything except dueling really) magNBs don't perform nearly as well. Their burst entirely relies on incap + assasin's will and that is not on demand, whereas StamBlades have the burst to take people down with their on demand skills (poison inject + cloak + heavy/incap + surprise + execute is enough). And in a group setting magNBs are always focused first since cloak is not reliable when multiple people are on you and shield stacking isn't enough against multiple people. Shadow image is pretty much a necessity to get out of there. But magNB isn't effective at just weaving dmg from a distance when there are multiple people overlapping each other and your weaving is just hitting different people every time. So essentially MagNB's become useless in BG's and that's why you see very little of them.

Stam NB's can roll around on the outskirts of fights, quickly go in, get a nice incap/surprise/execute combo in and take someone down, quickly get out, and keep taking out targets individually. Their burst within that 3 second window of coming out of stealth is massively better than a mag NB's, and that allows them to be great in small scale group fights.

If you think magblades don't perform well in groups, you don't pvp.
They are the core dps for almost every ball group on pc/na.

but let me guess...most of them are somethink like bomber builds so strife at all is isnt used to often

kyle.wilson

Edziu wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

in group PVP (everything except dueling really) magNBs don't perform nearly as well. Their burst entirely relies on incap + assasin's will and that is not on demand, whereas StamBlades have the burst to take people down with their on demand skills (poison inject + cloak + heavy/incap + surprise + execute is enough). And in a group setting magNBs are always focused first since cloak is not reliable when multiple people are on you and shield stacking isn't enough against multiple people. Shadow image is pretty much a necessity to get out of there. But magNB isn't effective at just weaving dmg from a distance when there are multiple people overlapping each other and your weaving is just hitting different people every time. So essentially MagNB's become useless in BG's and that's why you see very little of them.

Stam NB's can roll around on the outskirts of fights, quickly go in, get a nice incap/surprise/execute combo in and take someone down, quickly get out, and keep taking out targets individually. Their burst within that 3 second window of coming out of stealth is massively better than a mag NB's, and that allows them to be great in small scale group fights.

If you think magblades don't perform well in groups, you don't pvp.
They are the core dps for almost every ball group on pc/na.

but let me guess...most of them are somethink like bomber builds so strife at all is isnt used to often

most of them are using strife for the ulti gain between pushes.

Edziu

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

in group PVP (everything except dueling really) magNBs don't perform nearly as well. Their burst entirely relies on incap + assasin's will and that is not on demand, whereas StamBlades have the burst to take people down with their on demand skills (poison inject + cloak + heavy/incap + surprise + execute is enough). And in a group setting magNBs are always focused first since cloak is not reliable when multiple people are on you and shield stacking isn't enough against multiple people. Shadow image is pretty much a necessity to get out of there. But magNB isn't effective at just weaving dmg from a distance when there are multiple people overlapping each other and your weaving is just hitting different people every time. So essentially MagNB's become useless in BG's and that's why you see very little of them.

Stam NB's can roll around on the outskirts of fights, quickly go in, get a nice incap/surprise/execute combo in and take someone down, quickly get out, and keep taking out targets individually. Their burst within that 3 second window of coming out of stealth is massively better than a mag NB's, and that allows them to be great in small scale group fights.

If you think magblades don't perform well in groups, you don't pvp.
They are the core dps for almost every ball group on pc/na.

but let me guess...most of them are somethink like bomber builds so strife at all is isnt used to often

most of them are using strife for the ulti gain between pushes.

same thing can achieve for using sap essence, siphoning strikes or even cripple/debilitate just to root enemies or even malev offering xD (mainly after patch with change to burst heal and dot on caster but current also is fine as for ballgroups with healbots)

Ectheliontnacil

@kyle.wilson

Ballgroups are a separate issue and I don't think the strife nerf will affect those grps. Nbs can just spam siphoning attacks to gain ulti if they really need that 1/4 ulti per sec . And magblade trains are just a symptom of bad pvp balance and not the cause of it. Besides those magblades need support builds so they can destro ulti and proxy det...for solo gameplay and smallscale pvp magblade remains relatively weak.

LittlePinkDot

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

PLEASE RETHINK THE STRIFE NERF. PLEASE.

NERFS TO STAMBLADES ARE NEEDED, NOT MAGBLADES THAT ARE ALREADY UNDERDOG IN CYRODIIL

They base the nerfs according to pve first. Stamblades are more lacking in pve, so they wont nerf certain stamblade skills. But they are changing Dark cloak to a burst heal with no invisibility, this will make tanky stamblades more viable, so they dont have to run away and hide.

Stewart1874

I don't play NB, is strife the invisible strike thing that stuns? If so burn it with *** fire. Every death in PVP has been down to that. Horrific ability.

CatastrophicSuccess

I think magblades could definitely be toned down in PvE and a slight increase in cost to their main spamable would help with that. Having to throw in heavy attacks slightly more consistently, if you're not managing your resources properly, would bring them more in line with other classes.

It would have little impact on merciless resolve, as if you heavy attack into a light attack before your next skill, you're only losing 1 light attack to count towards your next bow. It could also encourage more thoughtful decisions with timing the use of popular sets like mechanical acuity and master architect.

That being said, it shouldn't be increased to match the cost of force pulse. It would kill magblade sustain on anything bigger than a 3 mill dummy. Heavy attacks shouldn't have to be a significant part of every rotation as this simplifies gameplay as dps. However I think heavy attacks can make the gameplay more engaging with double resource return on off-balance targets and other mechanics that provide good opportunities to heavy attack. It's a delicate balance but it seems like the current pre pts change is overkill.

As someone who already doesn't normally use it in PvP it would be even less appealing.

Abstraqt

The strife nerf is so dumb, on a class which already sucks to sustain on any further sustain nerf is just insanely bad

TheUndeadAmulet

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

You gotta admit strife was pretty op... Cheap costing spammable damage ability that also heals for a portion of the damage dealt? It also provided ultimate in form of passives...

To continue on with this I would like to add that although strife by itself is very strong the massive increase in cost by itself will create more problems than it solves. It would make more sense to instead nerf an ability that is only used by mb in PvE as mb is only overperforming in PvE dps.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Narvuntien wrote: »

Right now magblade has both the best sustain and the highest dps. Thats straight up op.

Wheter or not this is the right nerf is a different arguement.

I have to agree with others that its probably too much but a cost increase is definately a good idea.

In PVP they are perma invis and have constant self healing. The mag blades do have a lot less burst than stamblades but they make up for it with healing based off thier damage dealing.

@Narvuntien can you please provide backup to your claims? thank you as for the others who saying nigthblades are op due to certain facts that are clearly personal views and inability to properly play the class, please go away and hug your petsorcs.