DK defense for openworld. Make Wings Great Again.

NyassaV

reflect 2-3 projectivles per person lasts for 8 seconds... It's already pretty strong, way to strong in a 1v1

Vaoh

NyassaV wrote: »

reflect 2-3 projectivles per person lasts for 8 seconds... It's already pretty strong, way to strong in a 1v1

It’s currently set at 4 projectiles. That’s strong in a 1v1 and a hard counter to ranged builds. Lowering the projectile count makes it much more fair. Making it per target allows it to be the powerful utility it once was vs groups (anything more than 1 player).

Biro123

Can we reduce hardened ward size by 25% but have it so it creates a ward per attacker?

A nerf for 1v1 but a much needed boost Vs multiple opponents.

Just pointing out how much of a buff you're asking for.

Vaoh

Biro123 wrote: »

Can we reduce hardened ward size by 25% but have it so it creates a ward per attacker?

A nerf for 1v1 but a much needed boost Vs multiple opponents.

Just pointing out how much of a buff you're asking for.

The general idea atm is that NB is ridiculously strong, and has absolutely everything going for them. Even past nerfs are being reverted like Shadow Image needing a target. Now we all want other classes to have past nerfs reverted and lots of buffs to be brought on that level..... or else Cyro is gonna be at least 50% NBs next patch.

Reflective Scales is class-defining DK ability that is trash outside of 1v1s. It should be useful against groups like it used to be. Reflecting 2-3 projectiles per enemy makes sense (used to be infinite, which was OP) and doesn’t provide nearly as much of a hard counter toward ranged builds.

Think about it. 1x Light Attack + 1x ranged cast already removes the reflect effect if set at two projectiles. That takes 1 second. Against a zerg which just spam projectiles from afar, it has great use. Against smart players, it is easy enough to deal with. Currently the only use for wings is to have unfair 1v1s. Time to buff this skill.

Sorcerer needs to have Streak’s penalty drastically reduced or outright removed. Also their sustain is *horrible* without 1-2 full 5-piece sustain sets - needs fixing. Damage shields should probably have duration increased, and cost reduced. They are no longer even remotely powerful as they once were. As for your idea of making damage shields calculate per target... just no lol. Maybe Conjured Ward could increase by 5% per target within 8m, but that could potentially be too OP. Not going into huge specifics regarding Sorc atm.

TLDR: Classes need to be brought up to the level of NB. Theoretically there should be 20-25% of any given class within Cyrodiil - due to the superiority of NBs that is not the case. Either NB is nerfed, or everyone else buffed. I prefer buffs and this is a sensible buff DK thread.

Kilandros

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

Vaoh

Kilandros wrote: »

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

Then it becomes just another % to throw into the mix, while removing a class-defining ability. That’s something I hope Wrobel avoids doing. Even if it’s more effective it’s just.... boring.

Plus that’d be great for DK tanks (not needed), ridiculously OP in PvE fights (Rakkhat, etc), and overall you’d make like every DK rage for changing the core functionality of one of their class-defining skills.

Kilandros

Vaoh wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

Then it becomes just another % to throw into the mix, while removing a class-defining ability. That’s something I hope Wrobel avoids doing. Even if it’s more effective it’s just.... boring.

Plus that’d be great for DK tanks (not needed), ridiculously OP in PvE fights (Rakkhat, etc), and overall you’d make like every DK rage for changing the core functionality of one of their class-defining skills.

Eh, I dunno. A lot of the DKs I know have stopped running Wings in open-world PvP and only run it in duels. In open world it kinda sucks and in duels it's really OP against certain builds. I think it should be changed to make it more viable open world and less of a hard counter in duels, but that's just me.

ak_pvp

Biro123 wrote: »

Can we reduce hardened ward size by 25% but have it so it creates a ward per attacker?

A nerf for 1v1 but a much needed boost Vs multiple opponents.

Just pointing out how much of a buff you're asking for.

To be honest I would take it. But it goes against the original point of the Sorc, which wasn't really shield spam.

It'd also be a nightmare. Since shields are not a discreet protection. You wouldn't know who broke through or not. An ability could not break through in 5 hits, wheras it could break through in 1 hit, or with dots.

Wings is projectile only. So everything else can hit to your health. And you can see how many projectiles come from each source.

Vaoh

Kilandros wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

Then it becomes just another % to throw into the mix, while removing a class-defining ability. That’s something I hope Wrobel avoids doing. Even if it’s more effective it’s just.... boring.

Plus that’d be great for DK tanks (not needed), ridiculously OP in PvE fights (Rakkhat, etc), and overall you’d make like every DK rage for changing the core functionality of one of their class-defining skills.

Eh, I dunno. A lot of the DKs I know have stopped running Wings in open-world PvP and only run it in duels. In open world it kinda sucks and in duels it's really OP against certain builds. I think it should be changed to make it more viable open world and less of a hard counter in duels, but that's just me.

Well, yes. I agree. That would be the point of this thread ._.

Make it reflect 2-3 projectiles for probably slightly increased cost but per target - great in open world and follows the original intention of this skill, while not being an OP 1v1 hard counter.

Subversus

Vaoh wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

Then it becomes just another % to throw into the mix, while removing a class-defining ability. That’s something I hope Wrobel avoids doing. Even if it’s more effective it’s just.... boring.

Plus that’d be great for DK tanks (not needed), ridiculously OP in PvE fights (Rakkhat, etc), and overall you’d make like every DK rage for changing the core functionality of one of their class-defining skills.

Eh, I dunno. A lot of the DKs I know have stopped running Wings in open-world PvP and only run it in duels. In open world it kinda sucks and in duels it's really OP against certain builds. I think it should be changed to make it more viable open world and less of a hard counter in duels, but that's just me.

Well, yes. I agree. That would be the point of this thread ._.

Make it reflect 2-3 projectiles for probably slightly increased cost but per target - great in open world and follows the original intention of this skill, while not being an OP 1v1 hard counter.

This is something they need imo. Make wings 3 reflects per person (idk how that would be coded but yeah w/e) and also give them a small 2-3s snare immunity, not just purge. I don’t even play magdk and I feel like the really need this.

f047ys3v3n

NBrookus wrote: »

I agree a major overhaul and nerf to snares would be the better course of action. But Zeni just loves to put a snare on every ability.

The snares are ridiculous. The fact that almost all abilities aimed at either mobility or cleansing do not remove them (think refreshing path or mutagen) have no effect on snares is even crazier. To remove the millions of snares you have on you you must:

If magica be vamp and batform. Sorry you can't attack while active.
If stamina have a 2H bar and use that snare remove and immunity duration. (This is really the only good anti-snare tool)
(Purge and rapids also work but you cannot attack or heal on rapids and purge has no immunity duration so you are probably already snared by an ambient ground snare when you use it making it basically useless against snares)

The snare thing is ridiculous.

Kadoin

Honestly, I'm not even sure if buffing wings would make me slot them. The way I see it, it's a waste of a GCD on live. Why? It costs nearly as much as harness magicka and healing ward which would prevent damage PERIOD, and there is no reason I wouldn't simply roll or block incoming projectiles instead. I honestly can't see the use of the skill besides a negligible amount of resistance OR negligible amount of damage returned to the enemy (assuming they don't roll or block their returned projectile. I know I block it 100% of the time). I don't slot them now in PvP on my DK, and likely won't slot them later unless its substantially buffed. A snare removal? Not enough to get it on my bar.

Ragnarock41

Kilandros wrote: »

Just make Wings a 15 second buff that reduces incoming projectile damage for the caster and for group members within 5m by 20%. Voila. Still a strong buff, gives mDK group utility, and doesn't give mDK a hard counter to ranged builds in 1v1s.

but that is exactly the opposite of what ZOS wants. They want people to be able to shut down ball groups from range. Such an utility on wings would help the opposite. Not saying I disagree or agree, just letting you remember how ZOS thinks about it.

lucky_Sage

Vaoh wrote: »

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Wings are strong, already shuts down every ranged build.

I’ve been having some fun on Mag DK recently and it wasn’t even worth slotting. Maybe in a duel.... but elsewhere? If fighting multiple targets, wings become useless. An absolute waste of a gcd. Any other skill would be more useful on my bar.

The OP’s suggestion makes it less punishing vs a single target (only 3 projectiles reflected, less of a hard counter to ranged builds) but it becomes per target, so it fulfills the role it was originally intended to and becomes good again. Reflective 4 out of 10+ projectiles coming your way is nothing. A Stam build could just dodge roll. Mag DK needs to be able to reflect tons of projectiles, which was a class-defining feature they once had.

I got a good idea why not just change wings into a magicka dodge roll and has the some punishment as dodging spamming it cost more each time.( I'm joking on this one but stll seems cool)

for stamdk just turn that crappy ability stone giant into a stam melee spamable.

searing strikes should have a range buff it is really clunky to hit any mobile target.

fiery breathe range is fine it should have a wider cone clunky to hit in pvp.

magdks dmg is fine (if dots are not purged) there problem is if you want the survivability of other classes have you have to perma block, and if dots keep getting purged they lose almost all there dmg in AvA its every fight. which is why in duels and BG's they do a lot better.

and for roots you shoulnt be able to cloak. but you can while rooted and they can heal a lot before you can pull them out since all heals crit.