Official Discussion Thread for "Battlegrounds for All & Morrowind Moving to Crown Store"

Nelson_Rebel

I mean am I wrong?


By all means if Morrowind does not equate to Summerset.


Then please tell me how the value of one chapter differs from the other and somehow can't be compared to the other chapter, anyone tell me *shrugs*


Does Zone not = Zone in chapter ?

Esutick

RMerlin wrote: »

Esutick wrote: »

” and don’t even try to compensate the people who bought morrowind for full price...

You've been playing for a whole year. Compensation for what exactly? For old products losing value over time, which is a normal thing?

You paid what the product was worth at an X point in time, and been enjoying it since then. There's nothing to be compensated for there. You didn't lose anything. That past year spent playing wasn't erased.

Comensating for lying to us about it being a chapter and never available as DLC, it being 2 complete diffrent things, except one year later when they change their mind.

And im not even expecting money - but even so much as a title saying “I believed in the chalter system I was a fool” would be somewhat of a compensation. And a way of Zenimax saying yeah sorry we lied.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Esutick wrote: »

Comensating for lying to us about it being a chapter and never available as DLC, it being 2 complete diffrent things, except one year later when they change their mind.

And im not even expecting money - but even so much as a title saying “I believed in the chalter system I was a fool” would be somewhat of a compensation. And a way of Zenimax saying yeah sorry we lied.

They never said it would never be available as a DLC.
All they said is that it wasn't available for crowns.
When you get a new shirt or anything in a shop, you have to pay it cash, right ? For the price that's mentioned on it. There's no extra label mentioned "This article will be available on sale at the end of the season", right ? Now do you say the shopkeeper has been lying to you ?

I'm not in the least surprised by this announcement. It was obvious to me that it was going to happen. What surprises me is that it surprises some of us.

xSkullfox

So MW is now a DLC ?

lygerseye

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Esutick wrote: »

Comensating for lying to us about it being a chapter and never available as DLC, it being 2 complete diffrent things, except one year later when they change their mind.

And im not even expecting money - but even so much as a title saying “I believed in the chalter system I was a fool” would be somewhat of a compensation. And a way of Zenimax saying yeah sorry we lied.

They never said it would never be available as a DLC.
All they said is that it wasn't available for crowns.
When you get a new shirt or anything in a shop, you have to pay it cash, right ? For the price that's mentioned on it. There's no extra label mentioned "This article will be available on sale at the end of the season", right ? Now do you say the shopkeeper has been lying to you ?

I'm not in the least surprised by this announcement. It was obvious to me that it was going to happen. What surprises me is that it surprises some of us.

Not the issue.

A better analogy would have been this:

You want to but that new shirt. You go to hand them a $75 gift card you bought previously. No, sorry, cash only. Yeah, I know you bought the gift card with real money, but now it’s a gift card. Yeah, you can use the gift card on other stuff, in fact, you can use it on everything else in the store, just not this new shirt.

Fast forward: Ok, we’ll start accepting purchases of that shirt with gift cards now.

ProfesseurFreder

In the publishing business, a book is issued first in hardcover at a hardcover price.

Eight months to a year later, the same book is issued in paperback at a much lower price.

This is not considered "cheating" the folks who paid more money to get the hardcover edition a year earlier.

Know how the system works, buy according to your desires, and presto! You will not feel "cheated."

Elsonso

xSkullfox wrote: »

So MW is now a DLC ?

No. Vvardenfell will be a DLC. Warden will be a seperate DLC. Battlegrounds will be base game.

SshadowSscale

Its good that battlegrounds are going to be part of the base game and its nice how they try to help new players get a better deal but when will they stop smacking their loyal players in the face with stuff like this

monktoasty

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

Take that into consideration before berating ZoS about this change. (As you do have ground to stand on)

Don't enforce a standard of: Our customers will be happy if we keep things as they're first released.

At the same time though, it would be best for ZoS to prepare a PR statement or action.

Yet..we have summerset..doesn't sound like they learned a thing.

I won't be buying any "chapters" any longer

Zachary_Shadow

Honestly, I'm okay with Morrowind moving to the crown store and ESO Plus; however, this is something that should have been done from the very beginning. Even though I paid full price for it, I'm okay with it finally coming to the crown store and ESO Plus and that Battlegrounds is coming to everyone.

What I'm not okay with is the fact that when Morrowind was first announced, ZOS made it seem like there was no possible way that Morrowind was ever coming to the crown store or that ESO Plus would get it; therefore, everyone eventually gave in and was like, "Ok, this is fine, I'd still rather have it with my ESO Plus subscription, but it's whatever." Now you're telling us, "Oh, by the way, we are now moving it to the crown store and ESO Plus members get it for free! Isn't this what you guys wanted???" No, most of us have already bought the "expansion", so now it's a big slap in the face to those who are ESO Plus subscribers (especially those who are year round subscribers). Essentially what we paid for was early access and although I loved Morrowind and have been enjoying it since it came out, it still is unfair to those who bought the game at full price because we were told this was the only way to buy it.

Again, I'm okay with Morrowind coming out to the crown store and finally being given to those who have ESO Plus; however, it doesn't seem fair to the thousands of people who were told that the expansion was never going to come to the crown store or ESO Plus and ended up buying it for full price (or even much cheaper later on because, again, they were told it was the only way to buying Morrowind) now being told get over it, you wasted your money essentially for getting the game early. At least give those who bought the Morrowind expansion an incentive, such as an exclusive mount, crowns, etc, something that others can't get without having bought the expansion.

To summarize, this was something that should have been done from the beginning, when many were angry over the fact that ZOS made a new type of DLC called Chapters. At the time, I was okay with the new system, I understood it from a game and business sense; however, that was when we were told the only way to get these new Chapters was to buy it separately. Now, you're changing your mind a year after the Chapter came out and basically telling everyone to deal with it? After many people, especially to those who are constant ESO Plus subscribers, have bought it because they were told there was no way it was coming to the crown store or to the Plus subscription? That's what I'm not okay with. This is such a big screw you to those who bought the Chapter. Maybe I'm being greedy as a broke college student, but I believe those who bought the Chapter before the Summerset expansion releases deserve at least some kind of reward for buying it early. This goes especially to the fact that one of the big selling points of Morrowind was that Battlegrounds was a Morrowind exclusive and now this completely gets rid of one of the reasons why some bought the Chapter (although again, I'm okay with it coming to the base game, but this does serve as an argument for many who bought the Chapter and are now being told that they paid more money for nothing now).

anitajoneb17_ESO

lygerseye wrote: »

Not the issue.
A better analogy would have been this:

You want to but that new shirt. You go to hand them a $75 gift card you bought previously. No, sorry, cash only. Yeah, I know you bought the gift card with real money, but now it’s a gift card. Yeah, you can use the gift card on other stuff, in fact, you can use it on everything else in the store, just not this new shirt.

Fast forward: Ok, we’ll start accepting purchases of that shirt with gift cards now.

Then the REAL problem is that Morrowind wasn't purchasable in crowns a year ago. Not that it is available for crowns now.
I get your point, but still the problem is what happened a year ago, not what's happening now.

Nelson_Rebel

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Not the issue.
A better analogy would have been this:

You want to but that new shirt. You go to hand them a $75 gift card you bought previously. No, sorry, cash only. Yeah, I know you bought the gift card with real money, but now it’s a gift card. Yeah, you can use the gift card on other stuff, in fact, you can use it on everything else in the store, just not this new shirt.

Fast forward: Ok, we’ll start accepting purchases of that shirt with gift cards now.

Then the REAL problem is that Morrowind wasn't purchasable in crowns a year ago. Not that it is available for crowns now.
I get your point, but still the problem is what happened a year ago, not what's happening now.

So summerset is available for crowns and the zone is part of ESO plus too then?


Chapter = Chapter?


Or is it a premium chapter and isnt really a chapter

lygerseye

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

Not the issue.
A better analogy would have been this:

You want to but that new shirt. You go to hand them a $75 gift card you bought previously. No, sorry, cash only. Yeah, I know you bought the gift card with real money, but now it’s a gift card. Yeah, you can use the gift card on other stuff, in fact, you can use it on everything else in the store, just not this new shirt.

Fast forward: Ok, we’ll start accepting purchases of that shirt with gift cards now.

Then the REAL problem is that Morrowind wasn't purchasable in crowns a year ago. Not that it is available for crowns now.
I get your point, but still the problem is what happened a year ago, not what's happening now.

You are correct... What’s happening now is an added slap in the face/salt in the wound/added insult to injury after we called them on it for last year’s announcement. The fact that they made ESO+ pay for it only bothered me momentarily. Telling me I couldn’t purchase it using the THEIR OWN CURRENCY is what still bothers me today.

MacCait

WOW... just WOW...

I just bought Morrowind after a year of resisting the whole 'its a chapter' thing, and now this announcement...

Kinda feel ripped off and have to be honest ZOS, that really doesn't feel good.

I'm very happy for all new players with ESO+ and do not begrudge that, but I feel you ripped us off with the whole chapter thing.

So what you seem to have communicated here is 'its a chapter!... until we say it isn't... then its a dlc that you'll get as a ESO+ member after all.'

VaranisArano

MacCait wrote: »

So what you seem to have communicated here is 'its a chapter!... until we say it isn't... then its a dlc that you'll get as a ESO+ member after all.'

This is exactly what ZOS did. Morrowind (zone) was always a DLC, they just bundled it into a chapter, made ESO+ members pay for it and now are handing it out as the DLC is always was.

They'll do the same thing to Summerset. Summerset Isles (zone) will be a DLC next year, with Jewelry crafting and Psijic Order getting added in somehow. After making ESO+ members pay for the Summerset (zone) DLC they should have gotten for free.

Nelson_Rebel

I just want to reiterate.


I do not regret my purchase. But I feel strong clarification on what is a chapter and what is a DLC is neccesary here for very obvious reasons listed in this thread. @ZOS_GinaBruno


Are the "Chapter" zones all DLC and included in ESO plus? Or is it considered an "early access" DLC. At least that what it looks like. And is just released in the crown store for every chapter hereafter

The_Protagonist

So in this case Summerset is the last chapter that I will buy. Lesson Learned: Be patient and don't go buying collector packs ever again. Just wait for a year and ZOS will hand it out soon enough.
Oh yeah, note to self, learn to live without craft bag too, there is no real incentive to ESO+ anymore as I always buy every DLC that comes out.
Final thought, tired of getting milked like a cow for being loyal. This addiction is not fun anymore.

EvilKiwi

I have to admit I feel ripped off. Being a eso+ member for years now, brought MW because we were told it would not be available for crowns or with eso+ and now it is?! ZOS kinda just kicked all its eso+ members in the teeth. If this happens a year from now with summerset, I will not be purchasing anymore chapters.

Elsonso

EvilKiwi wrote: »

I have to admit I feel ripped off. Being a eso+ member for years now, brought MW because we were told it would not be available for crowns or with eso+ and now it is?! ZOS kinda just kicked all its eso+ members in the teeth. If this happens a year from now with summerset, I will not be purchasing anymore chapters.

It will happen with Summerset. You can pretty much count on it. If you are feeling ripped off, your best move is to wait until Summer 2019 to get Summerset. Demand a refund of any Summerset pre-order, if necessary, and possible.

Me? I don't feel that this is a deliberate scheme to rip people off. I sense no malice here. I think that they originally intended for Morrowind to always be a cash sale, but had not yet worked out how they wanted to handle multiple Chapters. Now they have, and this is it. Since I already own all the copies of Morrowind that I want, and have played it for a year, I really don't care. They can give it all away for free, or double the price.

Summerset is a new calculation. I pre-ordered it for PC. I want to play the content, and that is the deal. I will probably not buy it right away for PS4. I will wait a year to see what they do with it. If they do the same thing, I will decide if it is cheaper to pick up Summerset for cash, while I still can, or pay Crowns to get equivalency.

ktdotexe

[deleted]

Skullstachio

Disclaimer: some paragraphs may be mildly off-topic, but

What's to bet ZOS does something with the Elder Scrolls Online which "Could" have consequences, I'd wager that something along the road, they end up pulling off something that will end up creating a problem that is either equally or bigger than the Electronic Arts Outrage (you know, because they were monetising Star Wars Battlefront II in a way that it caused a huge outrage amongst an entire fanbase & more, and then there's Bungie, they are equally far worse than EA so really, don't get me started there...)

In short: Pray Zenimax & Bethesda do not become like them as it can easily become their greatest downfall, not to mention that I do not want to see a great game like the Elder Scrolls Online fall into ruin, because not only is it a good way of passing the time & expanding ones mental capacity, but it is literally a perfect game where ones imagination can run "Almost" Free, to see so many happy tamrielian faces.

Nelson_Rebel

I mean either way, I'm still purchasing Summerset because of all the content and systems added. And mostly because I can afford to do so to support ESO's development.


I am by no means blind to the fact that ZoS employee's have families too and they have to
make a large enough profit in order to maintain their jobs with the company.


But we do have rights as consumers to be given correct information about the Products we are purchasing.


No one will be angry in the slightest if we at least knew what the plan is for the "Chapters" and how we will be able to get said purchase


If you are going to let Morrowind be a purchasable item with Crowns, you should allow the same for Summerset. Is my ONLY gripe. I'm still paying you money ZoS and this would allow me to help gift my friends Summerset if they are struggling


Letting Morrowind become part of ESO plus, after a years time, does make sense to prevent The games population from being paywall segregated. So I am actually okay with this. Its better for the game and I thoroughly enjoyed Morrowind

WhiteCoatSyndrome

VaranisArano wrote: »

They'll do the same thing to Summerset. Summerset Isles (zone) will be a DLC next year, with Jewelry crafting and Psijic Order getting added in somehow. After making ESO+ members pay for the Summerset (zone) DLC they should have gotten for free.

Minor point of order: ~$15/month (or equivalent) is not free. I say this as a non-subscriber.

VaranisArano

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

They'll do the same thing to Summerset. Summerset Isles (zone) will be a DLC next year, with Jewelry crafting and Psijic Order getting added in somehow. After making ESO+ members pay for the Summerset (zone) DLC they should have gotten for free.

Minor point of order: ~$15/month (or equivalent) is not free. I say this as a non-subscriber.

Sigh. For free with their subscription, as opposed to subscribing AND having to pay for DLC. I would have thought that was clear, given that's the terms of the ESO+ subscription - and shall I point out that the $15 is basically paying for the monthly crowns at non-sale price?

You pay the subscription, you get access to the DLC, crowns (worth $15), and other benefits. It's not you pay the subscription, you get access to crowns, other benefits, and all the DLC (except the DLC we bundled into chapters, those you can have a year later but if you want them now you have to pay cash even though a year from now its totally a DLC after all) except that's exactly what ZOS just did.

My point is that Morrowind (zone) is a DLC. ESO+ subscribers get access to DLC through their subscriptions (nitpicking about "free" aside). ESO+ subscribers were instead made to pay cash for Morrowind (zone) since it was bundled as part of a "totally not bundled DLC" Chapter, when they should have received access to a zone ZOS is clearly admitting to be a DLC after all a year later - having not been remotely upfront about the whole - "its a DLC after a year" thing they just pulled.

So if/when Summerset Isles (zone) "becomes" a DLC next year, it should have always been a DLC for the purposes of ESO+ subscribers, who once again, have to pay extra cash for a DLC zone they should have gotten included with their subscription.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

VaranisArano wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

They'll do the same thing to Summerset. Summerset Isles (zone) will be a DLC next year, with Jewelry crafting and Psijic Order getting added in somehow. After making ESO+ members pay for the Summerset (zone) DLC they should have gotten for free.

Minor point of order: ~$15/month (or equivalent) is not free. I say this as a non-subscriber.

Sigh. For free with their subscription, as opposed to subscribing AND having to pay for DLC.

I called it out because otherwise it comes off as 'I want the new content for free' which is not what you're arguing. You don't want to have to pay for it twice, which is perfectly reasonable, but the distinction is important.

VaranisArano

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

They'll do the same thing to Summerset. Summerset Isles (zone) will be a DLC next year, with Jewelry crafting and Psijic Order getting added in somehow. After making ESO+ members pay for the Summerset (zone) DLC they should have gotten for free.

Minor point of order: ~$15/month (or equivalent) is not free. I say this as a non-subscriber.

Sigh. For free with their subscription, as opposed to subscribing AND having to pay for DLC.

I called it out because otherwise it comes off as 'I want the new content for free' which is not what you're arguing. You don't want to have to pay for it twice, which is perfectly reasonable, but the distinction is important.

Fair enough.

Zachary_Shadow

Nihility42 wrote: »

All the angry people in this thread make me laugh. So if you sub to Netflix then go see a movie when it is first released, do you demand compensation if that same movie is added to Netflix a year later? If you buy an Xbox, do you get made when the next generation is released and your model becomes much cheaper? Do you sent Microsoft an angry letter telling them that they're greedy and owe you?

This is how products work. Older products get cheaper the longer they are out. And it's basically required with games like this. If they didn't include old chapters after a time, the cost of entry for new players would get too high and the game would have a very hard time maintaining a population.

For reference, I bought Morrowind around the start of the year, so I've had it for even less time than a lot of you. And I have subbed to ESO+ since I started playing in October. So I'm not just saying all of this because I get something free. Quit whining.

That's not the reason why people are upset. It was expected that Morrowind would become cheaper and cheaper as time went on, that's just common sense. It makes sense to release it now to ESO+ and to the crown store as 3 separate DLC's; however, this is something many people were arguing about since the beginning. Your analogy isn't what we are upset about. It's what ZOS told us: that these "Chapters" would never be automatically given to those who have ESO+ and it will not be provided on the crown store, instead we all had to buy it as a separate entity away from the game. Now they are going back on that after many ESO+ subscribers bought the expansion because they were told that they could never get it through ESO+ or the crown store.

Imagine this, taking from your old analogy: Imagine you sub to Netflix year round and see there's a movie in theaters. Imagine the company behind the movie essentially promising it's consumers that it will never be on Netflix; therefore, you decide that you will go see that movie in theaters because they said that it will never go to Netflix. You go see the movie early, you really enjoyed it and it was great; however, soon after that, the company announced the movie is coming to Netflix! Great right!? No, because you feel lied and cheated because they told you that it would never come to Netflix, yet they now brought it. Now imagine that, but instead it's $60-70 and knowing that you could have waited for it to become what is essentially free to you is such a slap in the face.

I'm happy that ZOS is finally making this decision, but I feel lied and cheated to. They specifically told us it would never come to ESO+ and the crown store, that's what we are upset about because we wanted that since the beginning. We eventually caved in and said, "Fine, if this is how Chapters work, alright, I'm okay with that. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I will still buy it." I don't even have ESO+ most of the time, but I can imagine the anger and deceit others are feeling after being subscribed year round.

Anthony_Arndt

Edited to add that I overall support this move. I have looked at B2P MMOs in the past and if games charged money for every existing expansion, every year would keep raising the bar to entry for new players and it really seemed to hurt growth and retention. My family will continue to only buy content through the website with real money, the in-game store is only for cosmetic fluff.

benjamindjb wrote: »

How does this change impact players who play on multiple servers? As it currently stands zone access and the Warden class are account-wide upgrades and therefore carry over between EU/NA servers on the same platform.

Would a new player (or existing account) need to purchase access individually through the crown store to gain access to this content or will it also be available as an account upgrade for a single purchase per platform?

It depends on where you buy it:
Anything you buy through the In-Game Crown Store is only unlocked on that server (even if it says "account-wide" it's still just "server-wide".)
Anything that you buy on the ESO Website Crown Store is actually unlocked account-wide.

So if you are a new player, if it's available on the web (ESO site, Amazon, etc.) I always recommend that. I never thought I'd want to play on the EU servers... then I moved to Germany... now I play almost exclusively on the EU server and had to re-buy everything released in the first three years. (I didn't have enough crowns after buying all the DLC on the NA servers when I was still ESO+. Instead of buying crowns for the unlocks, it was cheaper to buy the ESO Gold Edition for cash online). If you play on the NA and EU servers, In-Game Crown Store prices are actually going to be double for you.

RMerlin wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

RMerlin wrote: »

Has anyone done the math to see how much it will cost buying everything today through the crown store, to compare pricing?

Impossible to check, Morrowind isn't available in the crown store yet.

Will be interesting to see the price. If it ends up costing the same or even more than the game last year, then some of the complains will look a bit silly by then...

Since in-game unlocks are only per-server, I have no doubt that for anyone who plays on both NA and EU servers, the price with be considerably higher to buy them for crowns. Since my family plays on both, we only buy cosmetic fluff through the in-game store. All content (DLCs, expansions, etc.) is bought with real money only.

EvilKiwi

lordrichter wrote: »

EvilKiwi wrote: »

I have to admit I feel ripped off. Being a eso+ member for years now, brought MW because we were told it would not be available for crowns or with eso+ and now it is?! ZOS kinda just kicked all its eso+ members in the teeth. If this happens a year from now with summerset, I will not be purchasing anymore chapters.

It will happen with Summerset. You can pretty much count on it. If you are feeling ripped off, your best move is to wait until Summer 2019 to get Summerset. Demand a refund of any Summerset pre-order, if necessary, and possible.

Me? I don't feel that this is a deliberate scheme to rip people off. I sense no malice here. I think that they originally intended for Morrowind to always be a cash sale, but had not yet worked out how they wanted to handle multiple Chapters. Now they have, and this is it. Since I already own all the copies of Morrowind that I want, and have played it for a year, I really don't care. They can give it all away for free, or double the price.

Summerset is a new calculation. I pre-ordered it for PC. I want to play the content, and that is the deal. I will probably not buy it right away for PS4. I will wait a year to see what they do with it. If they do the same thing, I will decide if it is cheaper to pick up Summerset for cash, while I still can, or pay Crowns to get equivalency.

I agree, I don't think it was deliberate. I will keep my summerset pre-order, its already paid for might as well enjoy it when it goes live

VaranisArano

EvilKiwi wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

EvilKiwi wrote: »

I have to admit I feel ripped off. Being a eso+ member for years now, brought MW because we were told it would not be available for crowns or with eso+ and now it is?! ZOS kinda just kicked all its eso+ members in the teeth. If this happens a year from now with summerset, I will not be purchasing anymore chapters.

It will happen with Summerset. You can pretty much count on it. If you are feeling ripped off, your best move is to wait until Summer 2019 to get Summerset. Demand a refund of any Summerset pre-order, if necessary, and possible.

Me? I don't feel that this is a deliberate scheme to rip people off. I sense no malice here. I think that they originally intended for Morrowind to always be a cash sale, but had not yet worked out how they wanted to handle multiple Chapters. Now they have, and this is it. Since I already own all the copies of Morrowind that I want, and have played it for a year, I really don't care. They can give it all away for free, or double the price.

Summerset is a new calculation. I pre-ordered it for PC. I want to play the content, and that is the deal. I will probably not buy it right away for PS4. I will wait a year to see what they do with it. If they do the same thing, I will decide if it is cheaper to pick up Summerset for cash, while I still can, or pay Crowns to get equivalency.

I agree, I don't think it was deliberate. I will keep my summerset pre-order, its already paid for might as well enjoy it when it goes live

It wasn't deliberate to bundle Morrowind (zone) DLC in with Warden and Battlegrounds to justify making ESO+ subscribers pay cash for it instead of getting Morrowind (zone) DLC included with their subscriptions?

Pull the other one. Its got bells on it.