Official Discussion Thread for "Battlegrounds for All & Morrowind Moving to Crown Store"

VaranisArano

RMerlin wrote: »

It's called a business model, not a cash grab. ESO doesn't get developed for free, and the yearly amount of content this game adds is quite significant. The same thing exists for pretty much everything else: new games are always more expensive at launch than a year later. Hardware go down in price later on. Or are you guys complaining every time something goes down in price after a while?

I've been used to other MMOs also charging me a monthly fee + a more or less yearly expansion. I guess the younger players here are more used to getting pretty much everything for free or for dirt cheap, having grown on the microtransaction model introduced by mobile games. ESO isn't a mobile game. It needs a different business model.

In terms of the volume of content, Morrowind contains more than any other DLCs (with the exception of Wrothgar, which could probably have been sold as a chapter at the time). A typical DLC for most games contains a few hours of content. Morrowind and Wrothgar contains many tens of hours of playable content, voiced quests, and so on.

While I find the chapter are priced a bit high, it's still not enough for me to consider it a major issue. I could understand however if some players felt that it was indeed an issue for their own budget.

Including them in the newly purchased base game (replacing One Tamriel) makes sense, because otherwise the entry level for a new player would be very frustrating, if they had to buy the game, then to discover that large areas require paying for a chapter, and then dungeon/quest lines would require paying for DLCs. Rolling Chapters (or expansions as called in other games) is also common practice in MMO. When you bought the latest EQ2 box, it came with the latest expansion.

And once they include it in the "new" base game, adding it to ESO+ is only logical.

I'm not complaining that the price went down.

I'm complaining that last year, ZOS bundled Morrowind/Battlegrounds/Warden together and called it bigger and better than a DLC so subscribers had to pay for it.

This year, ZOS is breaking up Morrowind/Battlegrounds/Warden into component parts and making Morrowind into a DLC (which it always was) which pretty much proves what I already knew: that the "Chapters" are bundled DLC so ZOS can make subscribers pay for content they'd get free if it was released separately,

jaws343

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'll be honest.

I wasn't going to wait a year to get Morrowind and Battlegrounds for free.

But this only reinforces what I already knew, that this "Chapter" stuff was just a blatant cash grab.

Blatant cash grab? Hardly. A blatant cash grab would be to continue selling Morrowind separately at the same price and force players to pay for Morrowind and Summerset as individual items for the the life of the game. If anything, they are going to be losing out on the potential revenue of future players paying for Morrowind to get Battlegrounds.

Smart move. A move that, as mentioned, falls in line with video game industry practices over the last 2 decades.

VaranisArano

jaws343 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'll be honest.

I wasn't going to wait a year to get Morrowind and Battlegrounds for free.

But this only reinforces what I already knew, that this "Chapter" stuff was just a blatant cash grab.

Blatant cash grab? Hardly. A blatant cash grab would be to continue selling Morrowind separately at the same price and force players to pay for Morrowind and Summerset as individual items for the the life of the game. If anything, they are going to be losing out on the potential revenue of future players paying for Morrowind to get Battlegrounds.

Smart move. A move that, as mentioned, falls in line with video game industry practices over the last 2 decades.

I agree its a smart move. Its the move they should have done from the beginning. If they'd released Morrowind zone as the DLC it always was, Battlegrounds as a PVP DLC and Warden as a DLC/Upgrade, we would have all thought we'd been well rewarded for our crowns/subscriptions. We'd all have paid for it -except the subscribers who would have gotten the DLC for free...which is a little awkward now that Morrowind (zone) turnes out to be a DLC after all.

Anotherone773

Ankael07 wrote: »

They seperate Morrowind from ESO+ people rage. Then they listen to people and merge Morrowind with ESO+ but people still rage. Make your minds up y'all

Approximately 12 months ago...

ZOS: Guys great news! We are bringing Morrowind to ESO!

Players: Thats awesome!. What is the crown price on it though?

ZOS: Oh, you cant buy it for crowns and it doesnt come with ESO+. Its a chapter!

Players: A chapter??? WTF is a chapter? You told us that all DLC was free with ESO+!

ZOS: No... no, chapters are different. Morrowind is by far the biggest expansion we have added to the game. You have the big island of Morrowind... you guys remember that dont you? Its full of swampy coast line and has this big beautiful mountain right in the middle. It even comes with a new class called a Warden! There will be a lot of new stuff. New zone, storyline quests, dailies, motifs, exclusive crown store content.

Players: So a DLC then?

ZOS: NOOO!. Its better than a DLC!

Players: It sounds like a DLC. Is it downloadable or do we have to buy a physical copy?

ZOS: It will be downloadable.

Players: So its a Downloadable Content Pack then.

ZOS: NO! Its a chapter! Completely different because its bigger and better and you guys will love it!

Players: I dont think we should have to pay for it with ESO+. You told us that ESO+ members would always get DLCs free. This sounds like a DLC your calling something else, so you can charge us extra for it.

ZOS: No no, that is not the case! Its bigger and better. Like Vivec City.... you guys remember Vivec City from Morrowind right? Well, remember how big it was....yeah, ours isnt like that. We made our city tiny. And all those doors....so many doors in Vivec City in ES3, we got rid of those. And the ones we left in, only about half work. Its so much easier to navigate without all those places to go. It will be better, you will see. Better than ES3.

Players:*sigh* I guess we have no choice but to buy it. You said this how things are going to be going forward?

ZOS: Yes Yes! You will still get DLCs every quarter except one which will be a chapter you have to buy. You will NEVER be able to buy the chapter with crowns or get it with an ESO+ sub

Players: Ok*sigh* i guess we will have to buy a chapter once a year plus our sub to have semi functional inventories. Sounds a lot like Blizzard to me, double dipping in my pockets.


.....Fast forward 12 months


ZOS: We are making Morrowind part of the base game and free to all ESO plus members if you dont already have it. It will also be available in the crown store.

Players: WTF, you said this would never be available for crowns or part of ESO+

ZOS: We changed our mind. We can get more new players if we include it as part of the game. And we dont think many people will buy it, when the next chapter comes out, at least not for cash. So we are just going to go ahead and make it a draw of buying crowns and buying a sub, to see if we can get a few more dollars out of it that way.

Players: WTF WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

........Any questions?

Brother_Numsie

So yes this is a smart move on their part and I'm glad that battlegrounds is now going to be open for all those who wish to play it (should have been from the start), but as an ESO+ member and pre-orderer of Morrowind I do feel a bit stung by this.
Now I don't hate that they are doing this, I just wish they had been truthful with us in the first place and told us when they release the next chapter the previous one would then be available for free to ESO+ and available in the crown store.
I mean damn, I would have still pre-ordered Morrowind, it's Morrowind.
My knee-jerk reaction is to cancel my pre-order for Summerset, but you know what I'm not going to cause Summerset.
Please in the future ZOS, try to be a little more transparent with stuff like this.

MisterBigglesworth

ESO Plus Perks:

• A 10% bonus to XP, gold, crafting research and crafting inspiration earned.
• Exclusive ability to dye costumes.
• Access to all DLC game packs for the duration of your membership unless it's the newest DLC, in which case you can wait 1 year or you can give us more money for what is essentially "early access".
• Unlimited storage for crafting materials.

Strider__Roshin

Okay I'm coming back when this chapter goes live, but I really would like the ability to choose team death match. The grab bag makes not want to queue because I truthfully do not like the way you guys do objective games. You will do worse if you fight players rather than play the objective. Because of this battlegrounds isn't small scale PvP unless it's team death match. And truthfully even that's not done well because there are three teams.

The original thought behind three teams was that the two weaker teams team up against the stronger team, but what actually happens is that the weakest team gets farmed for easy points/kills. A 6v6 format is better than the current 4v4v4.

Acrolas

Giraffon

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

They seperate Morrowind from ESO+ people rage. Then they listen to people and merge Morrowind with ESO+ but people still rage. Make your minds up y'all

Approximately 12 months ago...

ZOS: Guys great news! We are bringing Morrowind to ESO!

Players: Thats awesome!. What is the crown price on it though?

ZOS: Oh, you cant buy it for crowns and it doesnt come with ESO+. Its a chapter!

Players: A chapter??? WTF is a chapter? You told us that all DLC was free with ESO+!

ZOS: No... no, chapters are different. Morrowind is by far the biggest expansion we have added to the game. You have the big island of Morrowind... you guys remember that dont you? Its full of swampy coast line and has this big beautiful mountain right in the middle. It even comes with a new class called a Warden! There will be a lot of new stuff. New zone, storyline quests, dailies, motifs, exclusive crown store content.

Players: So a DLC then?

ZOS: NOOO!. Its better than a DLC!

Players: It sounds like a DLC. Is it downloadable or do we have to buy a physical copy?

ZOS: It will be downloadable.

Players: So its a Downloadable Content Pack then.

ZOS: NO! Its a chapter! Completely different because its bigger and better and you guys will love it!

Players: I dont think we should have to pay for it with ESO+. You told us that ESO+ members would always get DLCs free. This sounds like a DLC your calling something else, so you can charge us extra for it.

ZOS: No no, that is not the case! Its bigger and better. Like Vivec City.... you guys remember Vivec City from Morrowind right? Well, remember how big it was....yeah, ours isnt like that. We made our city tiny. And all those doors....so many doors in Vivec City in ES3, we got rid of those. And the ones we left in, only about half work. Its so much easier to navigate without all those places to go. It will be better, you will see. Better than ES3.

Players:*sigh* I guess we have no choice but to buy it. You said this how things are going to be going forward?

ZOS: Yes Yes! You will still get DLCs every quarter except one which will be a chapter you have to buy. You will NEVER be able to buy the chapter with crowns or get it with an ESO+ sub

Players: Ok*sigh* i guess we will have to buy a chapter once a year plus our sub to have semi functional inventories. Sounds a lot like Blizzard to me, double dipping in my pockets.


.....Fast forward 12 months


ZOS: We are making Morrowind part of the base game and free to all ESO plus members if you dont already have it. It will also be available in the crown store.

Players: WTF, you said this would never be available for crowns or part of ESO+

ZOS: We changed our mind. We can get more new players if we include it as part of the game. And we dont think many people will buy it, when the next chapter comes out, at least not for cash. So we are just going to go ahead and make it a draw of buying crowns and buying a sub, to see if we can get a few more dollars out of it that way.

Players: WTF WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

........Any questions?

This is a very accurate representation. Also very funny!

Starlight_Knight

Feeling more and more punished being an ESO+ member and having to buy "chapters"

So we just wait no until next year when Summerset becomes free to?

Also giving away the grey warden bear skin and the warden costume we got for pre-ordering it?

By that logic - i want the monkey and the senche loyalty rewards before it went "F2P"

Lets face it "chapters" are just DLCs they want to force ESO+ members to pay for (or now wait a year to get for free)

Nelson_Rebel

@ZOS_GinaBruno


So is all NEW dlc now a "chapter" that we pay extra for, for a full year before you make it a DLC again?


Just trying to clarify why if Morrowind is a "chapter" and is now a base game zone part of ESO plus, then exactly why is Summerset a "chapter" just the zone itself not ALSO part of ESO plus?



This a legitimate question



I'm content with the purchase I made but it does puzzle me why if a Chapter zone is being included in ESO plus, why is the next chapter exempt? Like is it a Premium chapter?

Clarification is always best

Cuthceol

wow, you entice players without morrowind to pre-order summerset by giving them morrowind for free in the full knowledge half it's feature are becoming base game and morrowind will be accessible to eso+ users, are there no limit to the tactits ZO$ will employ?

DiteHart

On one side, as someone who would have waited the year to buy it if I had known it would become available to the Crown Store, (I didn't pre-order it; i bought it when I saw it half off, and then it ended up being part of the Summerset preorder anyway), I'm a bit irritated that it happened, but that's more because we didn't know it was going to happen and that's a personal thing.


Assuming that you keep this trend (where the last Chapter gets more accessible when the new Chapter is released), this new plan is good, though. Especially, with people worried about Jewelry-Crafting being pay-locked (assuming that it would be the part added to the base game next year), it's more pay for early access. People that are truly interested in the Chapter (or people that are just impatient to access parts of it) can buy the chapter, and if you aren't interested, you know you can just wait (and possibly save up crowns).

If ZOS even continues the trend of providing the latest chapter free with the digital preorder of the upcoming Chapter, then it can save us even more.

I'm also glad to see that we'll have access to all achievements outside of the "DLC" and "Morrowind" sections again. I usually liked getting the Holiday Event achievements (I always tried to get them all on my main), but didn't care at all about the Midyear Mayhem ones once I found out you had to have Morrowind to get them all (and not just some "bonus" achievement--it was required to get the main achievement.)
I would've been able to get it this year anyway, but I'm glad that that's not an issue anymore.

MarrazzMist

Great news! Keep it simple: only one chapter on the market at a time.

...but now I do need to think again, can I wait a year for Summerset? Waiting a year would get me all new content free (kinda) with eso+

smacx250

I hope it can be gifted through the crown-gifting program (I've gifted other DLCs in the past)!

RMerlin

WasteOfTime wrote: »

wow, you entice players without morrowind to pre-order summerset by giving them morrowind for free in the full knowledge half it's feature are becoming base game and morrowind will be accessible to eso+ users, are there no limit to the tactits ZO$ will employ?

On this I agree the timing was poorly executed.

RMerlin

Has anyone done the math to see how much it will cost buying everything today through the crown store, to compare pricing?

Esutick

The whole fact they say this “We want everybody to enjoy everything Tamriel has to offer in The Elder Scrolls Online, and we believe that these changes best reflect what our players want from the game.” and don’t even try to compensate the people who bought morrowind for full price...And seem to leave jewelry crafting behind the summerset isles paywall

RMerlin

Esutick wrote: »

” and don’t even try to compensate the people who bought morrowind for full price...

You've been playing for a whole year. Compensation for what exactly? For old products losing value over time, which is a normal thing?

You paid what the product was worth at an X point in time, and been enjoying it since then. There's nothing to be compensated for there. You didn't lose anything. That past year spent playing wasn't erased.

Nihility42

All the angry people in this thread make me laugh. So if you sub to Netflix then go see a movie when it is first released, do you demand compensation if that same movie is added to Netflix a year later? If you buy an Xbox, do you get made when the next generation is released and your model becomes much cheaper? Do you sent Microsoft an angry letter telling them that they're greedy and owe you?

This is how products work. Older products get cheaper the longer they are out. And it's basically required with games like this. If they didn't include old chapters after a time, the cost of entry for new players would get too high and the game would have a very hard time maintaining a population.

For reference, I bought Morrowind around the start of the year, so I've had it for even less time than a lot of you. And I have subbed to ESO+ since I started playing in October. So I'm not just saying all of this because I get something free. Quit whining.

Alaztor91

While I kinda expected this, ZOS could atleast give some kind of cosmetic ''loyalty'' reward to the people that kept their ESO+ sub and bought Morrowind a year ago. This is like the 4th time they change their payment model.

Rosveen

RMerlin wrote: »

Has anyone done the math to see how much it will cost buying everything today through the crown store, to compare pricing?

Impossible to check, Morrowind isn't available in the crown store yet.

RMerlin

Rosveen wrote: »

RMerlin wrote: »

Has anyone done the math to see how much it will cost buying everything today through the crown store, to compare pricing?

Impossible to check, Morrowind isn't available in the crown store yet.

Will be interesting to see the price. If it ends up costing the same or even more than the game last year, then some of the complains will look a bit silly by then...

RMerlin

Alaztor91 wrote: »

While I kinda expected this, ZOS could atleast give some kind of cosmetic ''loyalty'' reward to the people that kept their ESO+ sub and bought Morrowind a year ago. This is like the 4th time they change their payment model.

My personal opinion? When they offer any kind of bonus for pre-order or collector's edition, these should stay exclusive bonuses, and not be sold separately later on.

MajesticHaruki

Ankael07 wrote: »

They seperate Morrowind from ESO+ people rage. Then they listen to people and merge Morrowind with ESO+ but people still rage. Make your minds up y'all

That's not the case and you know it. If they really had decided to change the way chapters become available, Summerset would be added to eso+ subs from day one.

Nelson_Rebel

If morrowind is a chapter and It's zone (by itself) is now part of ESO plus


Then why is summerset (just the zone by itself) not ALSO part of eso plus?


They are both chapters, No?

Nelson_Rebel

We need some clarification on what constitutes "DLC" and what constitutes a "chapter"


Because as of now this doesn't make any sense


@ZOS_GinaBruno could we get Clarification on what is a DLC and what is a chapter?


Or are chapters from now on going to be several DLC's exempt fom ESO plus but released as regular DLC that is then re-released to ESO plus in the future?

Nelson_Rebel

By the standards currently in place, then shouldn't thieves guild and dark brotherhood have been a chapter's as well? Minus land mass?

VaranisArano

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

By the standars currently in place, the shouldn't thieves guild have been a chapter as well? Minus land mass?

The ESO marketing team is kicking themselves for not thinking of the Chapter system when they released Orsinium. Because we know that would have been a Chapter under the current system.

Nelson_Rebel

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

By the standars currently in place, the shouldn't thieves guild have been a chapter as well? Minus land mass?

The ESO marketing team is kicking themselves for not thinking of the Chapter system when they released Orsinium. Because we know that would have been a Chapter under the current system.

Damn forgot about that yeah lol.


Honestly I wouldn't care if they outright said "hey everyone, we weren't making enough money to make profits with current market and expenses and employee upkeep/development. Our new DLC /chapter is part of our system now to help cover rising expenses"


I can definitely live with that. But it's confusing when these things pop up and frustrate everyone