Alwinarwe- True Veiled Queen?

Vuldovahkriid

So do you think Ayrenn's cousin, Alwinarwe (the Proxy Queen), could secretly have been supplying the Veiled Heritance and or been a part of them? Judging from the letter, she was definitely not for opening the borders at a previous time, so there could be some basis for her to join/support them. Or could maybe even be a secret Mephala follower?!?!

RebornV3x

Its possible she is a secret Mephala follower seeing as this DLC should feature Mephala as the big bad this time around either that or Alwinarwe will be the big hero that sacrifices herself to stop the bad stuffs

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I'm hoping she's not at this point, purely because it would be too obvious.

Vuldovahkriid

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its possible she is a secret Mephala follower seeing as this DLC should feature Mephala as the big bad this time around either that or Alwinarwe will be the big hero that sacrifices herself to stop the bad stuffs

That one picture of the Psijics looking at Mephala wrapping around the city, I really hope we fight her in a giant form(ala Molag Bal in The God of Schemes quest)

Vuldovahkriid

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I'm hoping she's not at this point, purely because it would be too obvious.

True. I am hoping for some twists though, like the Orsinum twist(basically helping the King to wipe out his competition, revealing him as the villain)

BigBadVolk

I dont think so, from the letter its kinda clear that she supports Ayrenn, she just probably know the altmers better then ayrenn, and just knows it wont be good for the dominion
Heavy spoilers:

From the alpha videos they uploaded this week, I'd say she may turn against us, but not because she is Estre 2.0 but because she is controlled by the main villain

also I hope not with my ad char I saved Estre in coldharbour and I hope she appears on Summerset

Korah_Eaglecry

Im banking on her being behind the Court of Bedlam. The entire letter is smothered with Aryenn buttering up Alwinarwe and then finally admitting that it could "break her" when Ayrenn talks of opening up the island. The letter basically lays it out that Alwinarwe has supported Ayrenn on all sorts of matters but this is one issue she might not be willing to support or play a apart of (why mention this being too far if it is not in fact too far?), hence all the buttering up. And considering Ayrenns past issues with close relatives and friends turning on her for her very un-altmer ideas. This would be very in line with what Ayrenn is walking herself into by allowing foreigners to visit the island.

Chaos2088

She is going to have a part yes, we will have to wait and see if it is directly her or someone close to her....mwah ha ha..

Sixty5

She's not the Veiled Queen.

Cannonically the Summerset stuff is taking place after the defeat of Molag Bal, and thus after the Vestige has dealt with the Veiled Heritance. So the Queens letter and appointment of a proxy should be after the Heritance is a thing of the past.

Merlian

I don't think she's the Veiled Queen. The letter indicates she supports Ayrenn, but who knows maybe this is the breaking point for her. Can't wait to find out though.

RavenSworn

Dearest Cousin,

It comforts me a great deal to know that in my absence, my favorite and most-trusted cousin Alwinarwe watches over Summerset and sits upon the Alinor throne. When I was a little girl, you were someone I looked up to and admired. As my older cousin, you taught me so much and inspired me to not only seek perfection, but to do so in the most creative and enlightened manner as possible. When I returned from my travels, you were one of the first of Summerset's nobles to support me and accept my ascension to the throne. You are regal, beautiful, and cultured in ways I can never match. Is it any wonder I made you my surrogate? I have to say this is very childish of Ayrenn, it's a real slap in the face.

I put a lot upon your fair shoulders, dear Alwinarwe. You must stand in for me at every governmental meeting, ceremony, and public event. And the balls and dinner parties, it must be terribly bothersome to have to smile and wave all the time! Frankly, that's the part of my royal duty that I find most tedious. But where I am hard-pressed to hide my true feelings in such matters, you are the consummate professional, capable of pretending you care even in the most excruciating circumstances. I admire that. I really do. this shows how alwinarwe can 'hide' her feelings very well.

I have heard it said that you are old-fashioned and set in your ways. That is true, to an extent, but not so much that you are close-minded when it comes to our people and the betterment of Summerset. When I asked you to serve as my regent and take on the mantle of Proxy Queen while I dealt with important matters in other parts of our kingdom, you agreed without hesitation. I know how much work is involved, but you handle your duties with grace and style and hardly a complaint. I couldn't ask for a better representative. Which brings me to the primary purpose of this letter. an opportunity to lead the altmer in absence of its Queen and basically be able to 'turn' their heads away from her? Sign me up.

I can imagine your stern expression as you read these words. I'm certain you're saying to yourself, “What does Ayrenn want from me now? She always says such nice things right before she asks for the impossible." Oh, cousin, how well you know me!

Alwinarwe, my dearest cousin, I am about to issue a royal decree that directly concerns Summerset Isle. As we have discussed on many occasions, I have finally decided to act upon my inclinations and open our fair and wondrous island to traders, immigrants, and visitors of all descriptions. A copy of the decree is on its way to you in a separate package. I understand that this decision goes against the counsel you have provided me with in the past and probably bends your Altmeri sensibilities nearly to the breaking point, but I need you to stand fast and make sure my wishes are followed to the letter. The Dominion and our place in Tamriel depend on Summerset becoming a free and open land. I know that you will support my wishes and serve me as always in this important endeavor.

I am sending one of my agents, the Eye of the Queen known as Razum-dar, to assist you and act as my eyes and ears among the people. Try not to let past grievances color your perspective. Razum-dar, well, that's just his way. He rarely means anything by it. And he really is good at what he does. Make use of him as you see fit.

So, Alwinarwe, please continue to keep my throne warm and my people safe. Welcome the newcomers with open arms and a friendly smile. We shall all be better because of it.

Queen Ayrenn really needs to employ a better advisor... She just can't see how this will turn out badly for her. Think about it, her brother, her sister in law, her personal advisor all had turn against her. And we don't know how the rumours will spread back to her homeland. A queen that kills her own brother to further her means? To solidify her hold on the throne? Ayrenn might mean well but in all honesty... This is a tragedy in the making.

With all my love, dearest cousin, I remain,

Ayrenn

RaddlemanNumber7

The real reason that Summerset is being opened to outsiders is so that hordes of heroes, including "The" vestige, can come to the island's defence.

How can it be that Ayrenn expects Alinarwe might object to the entry of foreigners to Summerset?

Why does Ayrenn not tell Alinarwe the real reason for opening Summerset, or refer to it in her letter? If Ayrenn has been warned, why is she not passing on this intelligence to the Proxy Queen?

Surely, someone must have warned Ayrenn that Summerset is about to be attacked by Mephala et al. It's not like it's a secret. The vestige knows, Sotha Sil knows, Divayth Fyr knows, the Psijics know.

Are we the players supposed to pretend that the vestige and all these other great personages all lack the gumption to go tell Ayrenn and Alinarwe?

To me, it just looks like an enormous plot hole is in the making.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Surely, someone must have warned Ayrenn that Summerset is about to be attacked by Mephala et al. It's not like it's a secret. The vestige knows, Sotha Sil knows, Divayth Fyr knows, the Psijics know.

This is a good point. Even if the Vestige won't tell her (and I know mine would!) there's an informant in the Clockwork City who is reporting back to Summerset, and the Daedra-related events that occur there would be hard to miss.

RavenSworn

I feel there are layers upon layers here. Ayrenn has been betrayed before, by her own family no less. What if its all been cloak and daggers, trying to root out the heritance / court of bedlam all this while?

She certainly seems to trust non altmer more than altmer at this point, given her track record.. I hope I'm wrong and that she is just clueless in this

DoctorESO

Vuldovahkriid wrote: »

So do you think Ayrenn's cousin, Alwinarwe (the Proxy Queen), could secretly have been supplying the Veiled Heritance and or been a part of them? Judging from the letter, she was definitely not for opening the borders at a previous time, so there could be some basis for her to join/support them. Or could maybe even be a secret Mephala follower?!?!

I hope not.

Ajaxandriel

RavenSworn wrote: »

Queen Ayrenn really needs to employ a better advisor... She just can't see how this will turn out badly for her. Think about it, her brother, her sister in law, her personal advisor all had turn against her. And we don't know how the rumours will spread back to her homeland. A queen that kills her own brother to further her means? To solidify her hold on the throne? Ayrenn might mean well but in all honesty... This is a tragedy in the making.

Ayrenn is like an elephant in a china shop.

Maybe she's truly "benevolent" but ... well, a benevolent warmonger and fratricide.

I understand that this decision goes against the counsel you have provided me with in the past and probably bends your Altmeri sensibilities nearly to the breaking point, but I need you to stand fast and make sure my wishes are followed to the letter. (...) I know that you will support my wishes and serve me as always in this important endeavor.

I am sending one of my agents, the Eye of the Queen known as Razum-dar, to assist you and act as my eyes and ears among the people. Try not to let past grievances color your perspective.

This looks like threats and pressure.

Razum-dar is popular because he's a puss-in-boots-007-badboy, but his role looks like he'll have Alwinarwe hostage.

Oh please, gods of the Holy Plot Armor, keep her away from the "Diabolus-Ex-Machina" daedric allegiance also ...
For lore sake, all the Altmer are not meant to be Dark Elves... Enough with the Estre arc...

and then let me side with the kind, cute and cold-headed Proxy-Queen instead of the dominion leader

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Keep hope my lady, my proxy-queen, I'll defeat the vile BOWSUM-DAR and get you free !!

(Didn't you realize Alwinarwe looks like Zelda? and that Summerset is full of Princess Peach's castles?... Coincidence??)

RavenSworn

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Queen Ayrenn really needs to employ a better advisor... She just can't see how this will turn out badly for her. Think about it, her brother, her sister in law, her personal advisor all had turn against her. And we don't know how the rumours will spread back to her homeland. A queen that kills her own brother to further her means? To solidify her hold on the throne? Ayrenn might mean well but in all honesty... This is a tragedy in the making.

Ayrenn is like an elephant in a china shop.

Maybe she's truly "benevolent" but ... well, a benevolent warmonger and fratricide.

I understand that this decision goes against the counsel you have provided me with in the past and probably bends your Altmeri sensibilities nearly to the breaking point, but I need you to stand fast and make sure my wishes are followed to the letter. (...) I know that you will support my wishes and serve me as always in this important endeavor.

I am sending one of my agents, the Eye of the Queen known as Razum-dar, to assist you and act as my eyes and ears among the people. Try not to let past grievances color your perspective.

This looks like threats and pressure.

Razum-dar is popular because he's a puss-in-boots-007-badboy, but his role looks like he'll have Alwinarwe hostage.

Oh please, gods of the Holy Plot Armor, keep her away from the "Diabolus-Ex-Machina" daedric allegiance also ...
For lore sake, all the Altmer are not meant to be Dark Elves... Enough with the Estre arc...

and then let me side with the kind, cute and cold-headed Proxy-Queen instead of the dominion leader

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Keep hope my lady, my proxy-queen, I'll defeat the vile BOWSUM-DAR and get you free !!

(Didn't you realize Alwinarwe looks like Zelda? and that Summerset is full of Princess Peach's castles?... Coincidence??)

How dare you speak of my queen like that you scum!

Relatively speaking, she is a like a gryphon in a China shop, and she's trying out her wings lol.

Nice catch on the Zelda arc... I don't think it's that much of a coincidence though but a homage.

VaranisArano

Ayrenn is not a fratricide.

I killed Naemon, after he attacked (in context attempting sororicide and regicide under the influence of the artifact or simply his own jealousy and anger run amuck). Which makes it self defense anyway...but just to clear, I'm the one who killed him (I cant find a word killing a member of royalty but not the ruler, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken note of my Google searches, hehe).

Estre was in rebellion and attempting regicide herself so that was killing a traitor.

Korah_Eaglecry

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ayrenn is not a fratricide.

I killed Naemon, after he attacked (in context attempting sororicide and regicide under the influence of the artifact or simply his own jealousy and anger run amuck). Which makes it self defense anyway...but just to clear, I'm the one who killed him (I cant find a word killing a member of royalty but not the ruler, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken note of my Google searches, hehe).

Estre was in rebellion and attempting regicide herself so that was killing a traitor.

For us the players its not fratricide, but for the world she lives in. The reason for why she did what she did is not really important. Many will view her actions as heinous and wrong (Game of Thrones is a good example of the attitude people in these settings would take for someone killing kin or king). Sure many others will understand why it was done and why it had to be done. But its still something very frowned upon.

VaranisArano

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ayrenn is not a fratricide.

I killed Naemon, after he attacked (in context attempting sororicide and regicide under the influence of the artifact or simply his own jealousy and anger run amuck). Which makes it self defense anyway...but just to clear, I'm the one who killed him (I cant find a word killing a member of royalty but not the ruler, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken note of my Google searches, hehe).

Estre was in rebellion and attempting regicide herself so that was killing a traitor.

For us the players its not fratricide, but for the world she lives in. The reason for why she did what she did is not really important. Many will view her actions as heinous and wrong (Game of Thrones is a good example of the attitude people in these settings would take for someone killing kin or king). Sure many others will understand why it was done and why it had to be done. But its still something very frowned upon.

I think you ignore my point that she didn't do it. I did. My character is not related to either of the dead people.

Not to mention that it gets covered up as him dying in her defense instead of Ayrenn going "Yeah he totally tried to kill me, you all saw it, there was no other choice." Because Naemon did, in fact, betray his sister and try to kill her.

So the only person who's like "OMG this is horrible" is Vicereeve Pelidil who was already a Veiled heritance agent and thus not exactly of clean hands himself and who then promptly steals Naemon's body and turns him into a lich. Everyone else like King Camoran is like, "Yeah, Naemon totally tried to murder his sister and we'll keep our mouths shut because she's right that its for the best that we let him officially die a hero. Even though he was a traitor and tried to kill us."

So I think you are wrong about what Ayrenn did - she didn't, I did because I'm the one with Rajiin's cloak to get free - and the interpretation of almost all of the witnesses.

Korah_Eaglecry

VaranisArano wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ayrenn is not a fratricide.

I killed Naemon, after he attacked (in context attempting sororicide and regicide under the influence of the artifact or simply his own jealousy and anger run amuck). Which makes it self defense anyway...but just to clear, I'm the one who killed him (I cant find a word killing a member of royalty but not the ruler, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken note of my Google searches, hehe).

Estre was in rebellion and attempting regicide herself so that was killing a traitor.

For us the players its not fratricide, but for the world she lives in. The reason for why she did what she did is not really important. Many will view her actions as heinous and wrong (Game of Thrones is a good example of the attitude people in these settings would take for someone killing kin or king). Sure many others will understand why it was done and why it had to be done. But its still something very frowned upon.

I think you ignore my point that she didn't do it. I did. My character is not related to either of the dead people.

Not to mention that it gets covered up as him dying in her defense instead of Ayrenn going "Yeah he totally tried to kill me, you all saw it, there was no other choice." Because Naemon did, in fact, betray his sister and try to kill her.

So the only person who's like "OMG this is horrible" is Vicereeve Pelidil who was already a Veiled heritance agent and thus not exactly of clean hands himself and who then promptly steals Naemon's body and turns him into a lich. Everyone else like King Camoran is like, "Yeah, Naemon totally tried to murder his sister and we'll keep our mouths shut because she's right that its for the best that we let him officially die a hero. Even though he was a traitor and tried to kill us."

So I think you are wrong about what Ayrenn did - she didn't, I did because I'm the one with Rajiin's cloak to get free - and the interpretation of almost all of the witnesses.

You acted on her behalf. I think you are wrong that people cant connect the dots and all it requires is being once removed from her brothers death for her to be absolved of her involvement.

VaranisArano

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Ayrenn is not a fratricide.

I killed Naemon, after he attacked (in context attempting sororicide and regicide under the influence of the artifact or simply his own jealousy and anger run amuck). Which makes it self defense anyway...but just to clear, I'm the one who killed him (I cant find a word killing a member of royalty but not the ruler, and I'm pretty sure someone has taken note of my Google searches, hehe).

Estre was in rebellion and attempting regicide herself so that was killing a traitor.

For us the players its not fratricide, but for the world she lives in. The reason for why she did what she did is not really important. Many will view her actions as heinous and wrong (Game of Thrones is a good example of the attitude people in these settings would take for someone killing kin or king). Sure many others will understand why it was done and why it had to be done. But its still something very frowned upon.

I think you ignore my point that she didn't do it. I did. My character is not related to either of the dead people.

Not to mention that it gets covered up as him dying in her defense instead of Ayrenn going "Yeah he totally tried to kill me, you all saw it, there was no other choice." Because Naemon did, in fact, betray his sister and try to kill her.

So the only person who's like "OMG this is horrible" is Vicereeve Pelidil who was already a Veiled heritance agent and thus not exactly of clean hands himself and who then promptly steals Naemon's body and turns him into a lich. Everyone else like King Camoran is like, "Yeah, Naemon totally tried to murder his sister and we'll keep our mouths shut because she's right that its for the best that we let him officially die a hero. Even though he was a traitor and tried to kill us."

So I think you are wrong about what Ayrenn did - she didn't, I did because I'm the one with Rajiin's cloak to get free - and the interpretation of almost all of the witnesses.

You acted on her behalf. I think you are wrong that people cant connect the dots and all it requires is being once removed from her brothers death for her to be absolved of her involvement.

I'm about done, since I'm repeating myself.

I killed Naemon in self-defense and defense of the rightful Queen after he attacked me and Queen Ayrenn. Everyone there knows full well what he tried to pull. Out of graciousness and desire to not shame her brother, Ayrenn gets everyone to agree to pretend that Naemon died a hero instead of a power-hungry traitor who tried and failed to kill his sister and take her crown thanks to my sole intervention.

I mean, if it had been possible, Ayrenn could have had him judicially tried and executed for attempted regicide, but you try doing that with a magically transformed ogre (assuming the game even allowed that though that would have been a nice option, however certainly Estre gets herself killed for attempted regicide among other crimes and no one bats an eyelash.)

You can disagree about her guilt. We're going to disagree about our interpretation of events, that much is clear. I think Ayrenn is clearly not the guilty one in the situation and I don't feel guilty about my part in it either.