guild trader system

knaveofengland

i think we have had just about every suggestion on the trader system , but i do think there is room for more thought on this , its so frustrating haveing the slow me down addons to help , and then spending shed loads of time and effort trying to find and buy stuff , never mind selling stuff .

as it stands only the very rich guilds have the most benefits , example 1 trade guild i am in have spend god know how much to have a better location , omg i am selling tons of stuff i have been sitting on for years , so i have to help them now.

most dont like changes , but the system dont work for everyone , its like any nerf thats actually a balance , many players start throwing thier dummys out of the pram posts like we still get.

so i say to all of you stop thinging of your self and think of the game and help eso find a better solution , to a frustrating system .

i will say a overall eve online system would benefit all and beyond , because now we just have traders , in eve you have just about every know system in banking , investements / loans , contracts haulage , the list goes on .

example 1 eve online player has been trusted with trillions of deals with other players , buying and selling , investements , loans ,just to name a few on the transactions he has handled , we could in eso have the same sort of thing ,

Turelus

I think the idea behind the system is fine, but it needs to have some passes to clean it up.

I like the idea guilds have to compete for traders and trade guilds can make a name for themselves, I like that we can market trade by putting in the legwork and moving around the world.

However the system needs to be less stressful (bidding on traders) and more user friendly (UI, data tracking etc. without add-ons).

As for that EVE player (Chribba!) he made that name for himself whilst EVE still had a regional market and trade system (which is the closest to ESO of MMO's currently going). There is nothing stopping someone from becoming a third party trader to circumvent fees of traders (the sales tax in EVE) but Chribba also managed it because of niches like Super Caps not being able to be sold on the market. He also does charge a fee which if you wanted to do in ESO would be need to be almost worthless as we don't often sell items where the tax matters.

Flaminir

Its not just the trader system... the whole guild system and mechanics / support / functionality needs a balance pass tbh.

I like guild trader system as an idea... but its got some real sharp edges that need smoothing off.

The idea has been beaten to death on the forums now... wonder if ZoS would ever get a bunch of GM's together in the way they do for combat balance updates, but to have a look at the guild system (Inc traders)?

knaveofengland

i do feel sorry for the guild leaders the amount they actually spent to keep this all going , never mind the gold the effort they give alone is huge , i do think a combined effort from the guild leaders should get together and see what they come up with .

do belive thier needs a gold sink and the form of competition ,would come from the prices them selves , but also think where any guild trader location is it should be a fixed fee .

really do need ideas from the guild leaders who run the small medium and large guilds to have a brain storming sessions .

maybe even have traders more in each area but not central in the towns , but have limited selling slots like 10/15 slots .

wish you all well

Beardimus

Honestly how many threads do we need on this.

No thank you to any form of Auction House. You don't need Add Ons just use the current system efficiently.

A search option for things like Motifs for sure would be good, but right now if people use the current system efficiently it works a treat.

Having 4-5 guilds with traders gives you access to them all from every guild bank. Sure you might only have 1 or 2 premium trading guilds and rest side guilds but if you sell appropriate stuff for the level of trader the guild gets you will still sell. I.e. Gold PvP stuff to PvP focused guilds, beginner stuff / leveling gear to guilds with traders in stater zones. And then the big ticket stuff for capital city traders.

Craft all the basics, or have a guildor do it for you. SO MANY AH threads AH wanters talk about daily treks to traders, that's not efficient. Stockpile stuff, craft your food, potions etc. You only need traders for rare items / sets etc you can't just make.

Then any trekking around to buy stuff is a luxury I.e. To find a cool deal at a far out trader or buy low sell high. It's fun aspect to the game.

Anyway its wasted breath as opinion on AH is like marmite, but thank fully ZOS havent plans to ruin trading aspect of this game yet.

Jaeysa

Not going to bother finding better ideas for ZoS because, 1, I've done so before. and 2, Others have also done so and came up with better ideas. That being said, the traders are very annoying to use without an addon.

1, You can't search by name or word
2, Certain things(Mast Writs) are hard to figure out where they go.
3, It'd be nice to be able to refine your search by style/recipes and motifs unknown.

Yes, AwesomeGuildStore is awesome, but it lags my computer at times and console can't use it.

Kodrac

It is a lot of work to keep a consistent trader location, not to mention a good one. I like the idea of competition too but if you lose a bid you're pretty much hosed. It puts a huge burden on the GM and it gets passed down to the members. You know the saying: *** rolls downhill. Then you get the people ignorant of how the system works and their reaction to being kicked from a guild is to get butthurt and claim fraud. That just adds to the stress. So even just being in a trade guild can be stressful and puts people off. That does't help the system either. All that being said, I still think it's a better system than a global auction house. The only positive to a global trade system is convenience.

knaveofengland

reason for threads every week because thier are problems with the current system , players will keep on banging on about it till its fixed , so all can reap the rewards .

its no good being a emu , the overall point is players spend wads of time trying to buy stuff and cant find it , i have some addons but get major lag so the mm and awsome guild one is not a option .

i pay a sub for the convience of the bag and content , last thing i want is the amount of wasted time looking for stuff to buy and sell .

not all know where the main trade hubs are , so its clear we havent enough hubs and a biding system that works for the wealthy , so with that in mind perhaps with smaller guids in other areas to create more trade hubs .

the main point should be keeping players happy . like pvp more happy players more to kill , the more unhappy players less to kill .

with this in mind it looks to me 50/50 so there is a need for some change .

Narvuntien

You create this world its big and expansive but then your players never leave Rawl'kha.

The problem is not the the system the problem is that there is such a limit on good spots.

I think they should just pull all the pointless wilderness traders and push them towards more central and busy locations.

Then the base game needs a big update, where you are encouraged to visit more out of the way places. The new holiday events are actually good examples of this, I want more of this... but always all the time. I imagine that the Ebonheart traders suddenly saw a big bump in sales during the jesters event.

I have heard that they are talking about log in rewards and I know people were talking about wanting to make people earn that log in loot. imagine, every day you'll get a random new quest that sends you off somewhere you wouldn't normally go. There would be a limit before you repeat them of course.

ZoS knows where the game traffic is, they would have heat maps of character locations and where people gather and travel through,they need to put traders where people actually are. they wouldn't of known when they made the game but they definitely do now.

xbobx

its an idiotic system locking out people that do not want to be part of a guild.

pauli133

xbobx wrote: »

its an idiotic system locking out people that do not want to be part of a guild.

The only people who are locked out are those who refuse to make even a minimal effort to get in. One of my trade guilds has maintained a trader for years while requiring only three things: make at least one sale a week, log in at least once a week, and be civil. People who cannot reach these... lofty peaks... aren't going to get to participate, that's true, but I'm hardly going to feel bad for them.

xbobx

pauli133 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

its an idiotic system locking out people that do not want to be part of a guild.

The only people who are locked out are those who refuse to make even a minimal effort to get in. One of my trade guilds has maintained a trader for years while requiring only three things: make at least one sale a week, log in at least once a week, and be civil. People who cannot reach these... lofty peaks... aren't going to get to participate, that's true, but I'm hardly going to feel bad for them.

some people don't want to be forced into one and most force you to pay a weekly rate. Casual players don't want that. They want to be able to sell the odd thing they find. One guild i saw forced you to always have 30 things on the guild store. Casual players don't want that either

pauli133

xbobx wrote: »

pauli133 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

its an idiotic system locking out people that do not want to be part of a guild.

The only people who are locked out are those who refuse to make even a minimal effort to get in. One of my trade guilds has maintained a trader for years while requiring only three things: make at least one sale a week, log in at least once a week, and be civil. People who cannot reach these... lofty peaks... aren't going to get to participate, that's true, but I'm hardly going to feel bad for them.

some people don't want to be forced into one and most force you to pay a weekly rate. Casual players don't want that. They want to be able to sell the odd thing they find. One guild i saw forced you to always have 30 things on the guild store. Casual players don't want that either

absolutely nobody is forced into anything. there are legitimate trade guilds for all levels of interest.

sylviermoone

The system plays a vital role in the ESO economy. The competition derived from trade guilds trying to move up to better locations coupled with the blind bid process acts as THE SINGLE biggest gold sink in the game.

Gold sinks are crucial in a game where gold basically comes out of thin air. Without them, the prices of goods would continue on an upward trajectory as the value of a gold piece drops. While there has been some fluctuation since the kiosk system was introduced, the value of most things has stayed pretty constant, at least in PC land. This is a DIRECT result of efficient gold sinks.

I can not speak on information across all platforms, but I would estimate roughly 150 MILLION GOLD is being sunk every week in capital city bids ALONE on PC-NA. I'm talking Wayrest, Elden Root, Mournhold, Rawl'kha. This is massive, and no conversation about alternatives to the guild system that I've seen takes this into account.

The competition that creates this effective gold sink is DIRECTLY related to the blind bid process. Is it stressful? Yes. Trade Guild GM's are not lying when they say this is the single most stressful part of running a guild, but it is such a crucial piece of the overall health of the economy.

Most of the gold sinks currently in ESO are one-and-done sort of gold sinks.
- Horse training: Once you've maxed out your horse, you no longer participate in this gold sink. Total cost to max out a horse: 45K
- Bag Space Upgrades: Once your bag is fully upgraded, you no longer participate in this gold sink. Total cost to max out bag space: 38,500 per character. For the standard 8 characters: 308K.
- Bank Upgrades: Once your bank is fully upgraded, ....well, I'm sure you get the point. Total cost to upgrade your bank fully: 768,500. This is a once PER ACCOUNT sink.

Housing: While there are many that have bought multiple homes, I'm sure there are also those that buy a home or two and then no longer participate in that gold sink. There are also people that don't participate in the Outfit system, either, and thus are not participating in that gold sink.

There are definitely ways that the functionality of the Guild Trader system could be improved. The search functionality of Awesome Guild Store and Advanced Filters should be a part of the base UI. Console Guild Leaders have a really hard time, as they don't have access to Master Merchant to check sales information for their guilds. They have access to the same information through the guild history, but Master Merchant gathers it and displays it nicely for PC GM's *cough cough PC master race cough cough*. And yes, I can absolutely understand that people don't want to spend all damn day running around looking for a gold Ring of Vicous Money Making, or whatever.

I suggest that we start by enhancing the system we have, by including search features in the guild stores, by giving GM's better tools by which to manage their guilds, and by potentially even adding a bulletin board in the main city of each zone where a player could go to check what is listed in that zone. These changes would allow for greater functionality of the Guild Trader system while preserving the spirit in which the system was created: to act as a massive gold sink to keep inflation levels low in the ESO economy.

knaveofengland

we do need the areas to be expanded , and more stress free for the traders , with the bidding just ahve a set fee 3 tiers .
maybe a search feature think that be good ,

do think with the crafting writs could be moved to smaller places/towns/villages and have more trader places there .

jedtb16_ESO

the system works well if you use it properly... funny that.

but i agree the ui/search function needs a major overhaul.

finding master writs.... all, legendary then put a price range in. would be so much better just to be able to select master writs, either all or by category.

Raraaku

I'm a supporter of creating a tariff system that allows Trade Guilds to let non-guild members to sell their goods at their stores, which essentially creates an Auction House system within the existing system.

Allow non-guild members to trade at Guild Stores for a % tariff that the current Trade Guild that owns that Store can set as well as inventory control over non-members i.e. take off items that are underselling members which are returned to the original seller. Prime trading hubs can sell a higher tariff % due to location and traffic while lesser locations can set smaller tariff % to balance out higher profit for the sellers at the expense of a less popular trading location. I also think that a tariff system would help inventory control as non-guild members might set their prices higher to account for the tariff (particularly if they want to sell in a primary trading hub).

This way, the Trade Guild system can be virtually untouched and non-trade guild players have a way to trade their wares in an Auction House while also providing an incentive to join trade guilds (no tariffs on items sold).

This would also help smaller trader guilds become more competitive for more active trade spots as they garner a larger volume of independent trade transactions due to the non-guild player making more money due to lower tariffs.

LKane

Stop the whine already.
Guild Trader system is what makes guilds unique. It allows ppl with natural abilities or experience to excel, not just reward mediocrity and polished (|)s.

As a GM you actually have to work to maintain you guild rep and income.
As a guild member you need to make sure your services are actually needed and try to get the best outcome from every trading space used.

That really makes it much more interesting. Market reacts quickly on supply/demand changes, while in other games (EVE including) prices are changed only when new content is released by developers.

Still remember a time when some letplayer advertises mana poison. Price for bugloss moved from 40g to 150g in about 20 hours.

NewBlacksmurf

The whole point of it now is that some places are more popular than others. Part 2 is the game wasn’t suppose to be faction unlocked or open at level 1 to all areas.

I don’t believe part 2 begs that we need some AH concept, just that the Guild setup is what needed to change drastically with all the other changes.

knaveofengland

there are many things things eso can do to help ,.

more trader locations in large places medium and small places .

with the advent of many more traders locations/places have a set fee and maybe the amount of slots as well , this would help lesser populated areas .

the gold sink would be what ever the cost to hire the stall and tax on listing and selling like ebay for example .

maybe a search function , this would make life easier to find stuff you want , but maybe limit the search to areas on that map rather than whole world .

i would love a total system like runescape or eve online eve being just about good for everything , runescape good for buy and sell , the system we have does need some attention , why its frustrating for the leaders bidding process , and also not selling being kicked from trader guilds .

its quite simple to fix more trader stalls , fixed bidding fees .

Peekachu99

I assume that all the advocates of the current system don’t use MM, TTC or Awesomeguildstore, right? Right? Cause the current vanilla system fulfills all your needs and is 100% user-friendly and efficient? Any of those addons on your PC makes you a bunch of hypocrites otherwise.

Peekachu99

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The whole point of it now is that some places are more popular than others. Part 2 is the game wasn’t suppose to be faction unlocked or open at level 1 to all areas.

I don’t believe part 2 begs that we need some AH concept, just that the Guild setup is what needed to change drastically with all the other changes.

“More popular” is a gross understatement. Reaper’s March (Rawl) and the capital cities have been prime territory since day one of 1T. The current crisis with kiosk trolls and inflation could be seen coming years ago. A Guild store in any other location is essentially selling to its guild members and that’s it.

At the very least the QoL features of the most popular merchant addons should be rolled into the base game.

jedtb16_ESO

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I assume that all the advocates of the current system don’t use MM, TTC or Awesomeguildstore, right? Right? Cause the current vanilla system fulfills all your needs and is 100% user-friendly and efficient? Any of those addons on your PC makes you a bunch of hypocrites otherwise.

no it doesn't.

no one is saying the system is perfect, but it does work if you work with it.

Drachenfier

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I assume that all the advocates of the current system don’t use MM, TTC or Awesomeguildstore, right? Right? Cause the current vanilla system fulfills all your needs and is 100% user-friendly and efficient? Any of those addons on your PC makes you a bunch of hypocrites otherwise.

Have an awesome for speaking so much truth.

AlnilamE

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I assume that all the advocates of the current system don’t use MM, TTC or Awesomeguildstore, right? Right? Cause the current vanilla system fulfills all your needs and is 100% user-friendly and efficient? Any of those addons on your PC makes you a bunch of hypocrites otherwise.

I don't think anyone who used the vanilla trade UI and then tried AwesomeGuildStore disagrees that AGS should be integrated into the UI.

There are definitely improvements that can be made, such as saving searches and keyword search that still work within the current guild trader framework.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The whole point of it now is that some places are more popular than others. Part 2 is the game wasn’t suppose to be faction unlocked or open at level 1 to all areas.

I don’t believe part 2 begs that we need some AH concept, just that the Guild setup is what needed to change drastically with all the other changes.

One Tamriel didn't change anything regarding guild traders. Every trader was accessible in all three instances of the game (AD,EP and DC).

I really don't understand the fascination with Rawl'kha, but that's just me. It must be that rock.

IcyDeadPeople

knaveofengland wrote: »

as it stands only the very rich guilds have the most benefits , example 1 trade guild i am in have spend god know how much to have a better location , omg i am selling tons of stuff i have been sitting on for years , so i have to help them now.

When you say "only the very rich guilds have the most benefits," I believe you are referring to the fact there are about 5 towns which are very good for trading, each with only a few trader npc spots, and then there are dozens of other trader kiosks with low to moderate traffic, including the other towns and lonely remote traders which almost never get traffic unless people are coming from tamrieltradecentre website.

In my view there are several steps that could be taken to quickly remedy this situation

• Move all the remote traders in each zone to the capital city of that zone
• Relocate the trader NPCs in Skywatch and Ebonheart wayshrine to the AD and EP starting towns (Vukhel Guard and Davon's Watch). These starting towns are excellent traffic spots, just need more trader kiosks like Daggerfall.
• Add 2 additional trader NPCs to outlaw refuge in capital city of each zone. Even in high traffic spots with outlaw refuge entrance nearby, most players don't shop at outlaw refuge trader because it's only one trader inside.
• Make sure all the trader kiosks in each town are very close to wayshrine (if far away, move wayshrine or traders to be closer)
• Require guild store unlock to claim keep in Cyrodiil, just as it is already required to hire any trader
• Add guild store dialogue to every quartermaster in Cyrodiil including resources, outposts and towns
• Improve search UI similar to what Awesome Guild Store search does

sylviermoone

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

knaveofengland wrote: »

as it stands only the very rich guilds have the most benefits , example 1 trade guild i am in have spend god know how much to have a better location , omg i am selling tons of stuff i have been sitting on for years , so i have to help them now.

When you say "only the very rich guilds have the most benefits," I believe you are referring to the fact there are about 5 towns which are very good for trading, each with only a few trader npc spots, and then there are dozens of other trader kiosks with low to moderate traffic, including the other towns and lonely remote traders which almost never get traffic unless people are coming from tamrieltradecentre website.

In my view there are several steps that could be taken to quickly remedy this situation

• Move all the remote traders in each zone to the capital city of that zone
• Relocate the trader NPCs in Skywatch and Ebonheart wayshrine to the AD and EP starting towns (Vukhel Guard and Davon's Watch). These starting towns are excellent traffic spots, just need more trader kiosks like Daggerfall.
• Add 2 additional trader NPCs to outlaw refuge in capital city of each zone. Even in high traffic spots with outlaw refuge entrance nearby, most players don't shop at outlaw refuge trader because it's only one trader inside.
• Make sure all the trader kiosks in each town are very close to wayshrine (if far away, move wayshrine or traders to be closer)
• Require guild store unlock to claim keep in Cyrodiil, just as it is already required to hire any trader
• Add guild store dialogue to every quartermaster in Cyrodiil including resources, outposts and towns
• Improve search UI similar to what Awesome Guild Store search does

Davon's Watch and Vulkhel Guard are quest instanced cities, which is why there are not kiosk hubs there.

Motherball

I’ve lost faith in the developers/producers on this one. I don’t think they care about it at all. Finding new trading guilds (or rejoining old ones) after long breaks is so annoying, I just stopped looting anything I can’t sell to a vendor. Is that how the economy is supposed to work, just make it so annoying that nobody wants to participate so that supply dwindles and prices spike so it can be another gold sink?

Maybe they do it to make sure players keep logging in just to maintain a spot, but if I get bored with a game, I stop playing it for awhile. I dont log in to feed my horse or maintain a guild spot. I dont expect the game to change to suit me, but I’m not alone in being a little upset that a feature of MMOs I have enjoyed for years is so convoluted and inaccessable in this game that I refuse to participate in it. Its depressing and makes we want to play it even less.

sylviermoone

knaveofengland wrote: »

there are many things things eso can do to help ,.

more trader locations in large places medium and small places .

with the advent of many more traders locations/places have a set fee and maybe the amount of slots as well , this would help lesser populated areas .

the gold sink would be what ever the cost to hire the stall and tax on listing and selling like ebay for example .

maybe a search function , this would make life easier to find stuff you want , but maybe limit the search to areas on that map rather than whole world .

i would love a total system like runescape or eve online eve being just about good for everything , runescape good for buy and sell , the system we have does need some attention , why its frustrating for the leaders bidding process , and also not selling being kicked from trader guilds .

its quite simple to fix more trader stalls , fixed bidding fees .

The gold sink you propose is simply NOT ENOUGH to keep inflation low. Each week, 150 MILLION gold + leaves the PC-NA economy in capital city bids ALONE. This is absolutely critical to the health of the economy, and is THE reason that prices on goods have stayed relatively stable.

The competition derived from the blind bid system is what makes kiosk bids such an effective gold sink.

SugaComa

I think the trader system should be changed completely ...

I think you shouldn't be allowed to donate gold ... Instead you can only claim taxes from purchases ...

To start with you can only trade with guild member once you earn so many taxes you get a choice X number of guild traders ... You can choose to hire one or bank your taxes until you have more to ascend to the next tier of traders ...

Every 90 days if you haven't bought a trader each member of the guild gets a tax return based on their own sales

This means more money back to the seller and less money into that stupid gold sink

What happens then is instead of a world economy you start to see guild economy.

You will more diverse guilds and need for PvP and pvers to mix together instead of staying anonymous behind 1million gold paywalls

This game should be about making friends not gold

Jaeysa

SugaComa wrote: »

I think the trader system should be changed completely ...

I think you shouldn't be allowed to donate gold ... Instead you can only claim taxes from purchases ...

To start with you can only trade with guild member once you earn so many taxes you get a choice X number of guild traders ... You can choose to hire one or bank your taxes until you have more to ascend to the next tier of traders ...

Every 90 days if you haven't bought a trader each member of the guild gets a tax return based on their own sales

This means more money back to the seller and less money into that stupid gold sink

What happens then is instead of a world economy you start to see guild economy.

You will more diverse guilds and need for PvP and pvers to mix together instead of staying anonymous behind 1million gold paywalls

This game should be about making friends not gold

This is a terrible idea. For one thing, trading only with guild members is how we started out and it sucked.

* That's how you get 5 trading guilds not just to sell but also to buy, because it lessons the chance of a guild actually getting a trader.
* It will make it even harder for new trading guilds to start. Maybe it shouldn't easy peasy to start a guild, but what you're proposing will make it so that trade guilds are virtually impossible to start.
* It won't mean more diverse guilds, it will mean less guilds because people will have a harder time giving up their trade guild. Getting in and keeping a spot in said guild will be even harder, with sale requirments going up simply to keep the trader.
* Allowing people to donate money at least adds options to the system, so instead of requiring a certain amount of sales, you can give people the option to pay dues(especially if they're going to be gone a week or two).
* "This game should be about making friends not gold" - Why are they mutually exclusive? And exactly where do your proposals encourage this? If anything, your suggestions will instead drive up dues and take away options.