Arctic Wind on life support atm

mb10

A 4500 cost for what will be between 1800-3000 heal on most builds is really really bad.
When you take PVP into consideration that becomes between 900-1500 health restored for 4500 magicka lol.

To make that even worse every TWO seconds, you would receive between 180 - 300 health from this skill. Absolutely unbelievable. The numbers are in serious serious need for change for this skill.

I read from players who visited ZOS HQ that this will be buffed by 20% which is cool but Im hoping this works like coagulating blood and has the ability to crit. Is this already happening?



The morph that deals damage, Arctic Blast, deals damage every 2 seconds based on your maximum health. I'm hoping this can be changed to be based on your maximum magicka and spell damage, whilst hitting every 1 second as oppose to 2.

Magicka Wardens could really do with this buff and would work towards them having their own unique style of frost damage and protection abilities.

What do you think?

Jade1986

mb10 wrote: »

A 4500 cost for what will be between 1800-3000 heal on most builds is really really bad.
When you take PVP into consideration that becomes between 900-1500 health restored for 4500 magicka lol.

To make that even worse every TWO seconds, you would receive between 180 - 300 health from this skill. Absolutely unbelievable. The numbers are in serious serious need for change for this skill.

I read from players who visited ZOS HQ that this will be buffed by 20% which is cool but Im hoping this works like coagulating blood and has the ability to crit. Is this already happening?



The morph that deals damage, Arctic Blast, deals damage every 2 seconds based on your maximum health. I'm hoping this can be changed to be based on your maximum magicka and spell damage, whilst hitting every 1 second as oppose to 2.

Magicka Wardens could really do with this buff and would work towards them having their own unique style of frost damage and protection abilities.

What do you think?

I totally agree, I have a magicka warden tank and she is just being shelved for the time being, which saddens me, but until I see what is coming and what has been improved, i cant do it anymore. My Shadow nb tank performs better literally in -every- aspect. And dk tanking is just a snooze fest for me.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

first off, the skill costs 4k, not 4.5k http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arctic_Wind, (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoSkills?&id=86155&level=66&health=8744&magicka=7958&stamina=7958&spelldamage=1037&weapondamage=1037&showall=1) you people need to stop using that crappy wiki and start using uesp more.

second, if you are only hitting 3.5k with the main heal on a tank build, you have something wrong with your build, with my warden tank, i get consistent 10k heal with this. on myself and with polar wind, on another player. i only have around 33k health too, put more points into blessed and quick recovery. with the 8% from heavy armor, i get 30% more, making the 10% come up to 13% and more with crit and elfborn crit hit damage increase. the 2% ticks after for ~1.2k for me as well. just enough to keep Maturation up on my permanently, which makes the skill even stronger.

all this is mute anyway, they are increaseing the base heal to 20% of your max health in Summerset.

mb10

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

4K 4.5k what's the difference?

Who said I'm a tank lol? Stop assuming we're all tanks and the skill line is only there for tanks. Healers and DDs will need the skill as well.

Tanking isn't about stacking max health anyway lol you should know better

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mb10 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

4K 4.5k what's the difference?

the difference is 500 magic, or 12%. that is huge.

Who said I'm a tank lol? Stop assuming we're all tanks and the skill line is only there for tanks. Healers and DDs will need the skill as well.

if you want a great self heal, use enchanted growth. that is the burst heal for mag toons and healers, hell even stam dps can use it. Arctic Wind and its morphs are 100% tanking, even if polar blast does damage, it is only to get aggro and apply chilled. something you are totally not being right now.

Tanking isn't about stacking max health anyway lol you should know better

if your tank does not have at least 30k health, you are a bad tank. 30k health is not stacking health, it is large enough to avoid 1 hits. lol you ought to know better haha hehe hoho lmao roflcopter lulz kek and so on.

mb10

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

4K 4.5k what's the difference?

the difference is 500 magic, or 12%. that is huge.

Who said I'm a tank lol? Stop assuming we're all tanks and the skill line is only there for tanks. Healers and DDs will need the skill as well.

if you want a great self heal, use enchanted growth. that is the burst heal for mag toons and healers, hell even stam dps can use it. Arctic Wind and its morphs are 100% tanking, even if polar blast does damage, it is only to get aggro and apply chilled. something you are totally not being right now.

Tanking isn't about stacking max health anyway lol you should know better

if your tank does not have at least 30k health, you are a bad tank. 30k health is not stacking health, it is large enough to avoid 1 hits. lol you ought to know better haha hehe hoho lmao roflcopter lulz kek and so on.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Okay so let's say a 50k tank uses it, he spends 4K of his magicka for 5k health then 2k health every 2 seconds

LOL in pvp that's 2.5k heal for a 50k tank and 1k health every 2 seconds.

How on Earth you're defending this skill is completely beyond me and why the hell you slot it if you even do is a bigger mystery.

Toast_STS

Mine crits for like 3.5k in pvp. I like the damage morph for procing iceheart and winterborn. I welcome any buffs to this skill.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@mb10 Okay so let's say a 50k tank uses it, he spends 4K of his magicka for 5k health then 2k health every 2 seconds

that is not how the skill works though, have you ever used it on an actual tank, i literally explained i get 10k ticks from the first heal on my 30k tank, go read my other comments broksi.

LOL in pvp that's 2.5k heal for a 50k tank and 1k health every 2 seconds.

i dont care about pvp.

How on Earth you're defending this skill is completely beyond me and why the hell you slot it if you even do is a bigger mystery.

i am defending it because you misrepresenting it and want it to be something it is not, a tank self heal.

@Toast_STS Mine crits for like 3.5k in pvp. I like the damage morph for procing iceheart and winterborn. I welcome any buffs to this skill.

you are in luck, ZOS has it buffed to 20% for the main heal coming in summerset, as i already pointed out and you would know if you guys paid any attention the forums.

mb10

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@mb10 Okay so let's say a 50k tank uses it, he spends 4K of his magicka for 5k health then 2k health every 2 seconds

that is not how the skill works though, have you ever used it on an actual tank, i literally explained i get 10k ticks from the first heal on my 30k tank, go read my other comments broksi.

LOL in pvp that's 2.5k heal for a 50k tank and 1k health every 2 seconds.

i dont care about pvp.

How on Earth you're defending this skill is completely beyond me and why the hell you slot it if you even do is a bigger mystery.

i am defending it because you misrepresenting it and want it to be something it is not, a tank self heal.

@Toast_STS Mine crits for like 3.5k in pvp. I like the damage morph for procing iceheart and winterborn. I welcome any buffs to this skill.

you are in luck, ZOS has it buffed to 20% for the main heal coming in summerset, as i already pointed out and you would know if you guys paid any attention the forums.

You dont care about PVP because you get thrown around like a rag doll in it as you try to heal yourself using arctic wind lmao
Whether or not YOU care about it is completely irrelevant. The skill is severely underperforming.

You said it does 10k heals but thats with EVERYTHING stacked into it and hoping for the crit. Lol like I said, not every warden is a tank and for a skill to only be suited to those who stack everything into HP and healing is just stupid and pointless.

IxSTALKERxI

Looking forward to this buff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilvOt7PzxCk

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mb10 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@mb10 Okay so let's say a 50k tank uses it, he spends 4K of his magicka for 5k health then 2k health every 2 seconds

that is not how the skill works though, have you ever used it on an actual tank, i literally explained i get 10k ticks from the first heal on my 30k tank, go read my other comments broksi.

LOL in pvp that's 2.5k heal for a 50k tank and 1k health every 2 seconds.

i dont care about pvp.

How on Earth you're defending this skill is completely beyond me and why the hell you slot it if you even do is a bigger mystery.

i am defending it because you misrepresenting it and want it to be something it is not, a tank self heal.

@Toast_STS Mine crits for like 3.5k in pvp. I like the damage morph for procing iceheart and winterborn. I welcome any buffs to this skill.

you are in luck, ZOS has it buffed to 20% for the main heal coming in summerset, as i already pointed out and you would know if you guys paid any attention the forums.

You dont care about PVP because you get thrown around like a rag doll in it as you try to heal yourself using arctic wind lmao
Whether or not YOU care about it is completely irrelevant. The skill is severely underperforming.

You said it does 10k heals but thats with EVERYTHING stacked into it and hoping for the crit. Lol like I said, not every warden is a tank and for a skill to only be suited to those who stack everything into HP and healing is just stupid and pointless.

K.

GrumpyDuckling

I'd be very interested in seeing how one of the morphs, probably Arctic Blast, would operate as a toggle (with a couple small tweaks, such as reducing the tick from every 2 seconds to every second).

Currently
- Envelop yourself in winter winds, healing for 10% of Max Health instantly and an additional 2% Health every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
- Enemies in the area will take Frost Damage every 2 seconds over 10 seconds.
- Deals Frost Damage to nearby enemies.

As a Toggle
- Envelop yourself in winter winds to heal for 2% Health every second.
- Enemies in the area will take Frost Damage every second.
- Deals Frost Damage to nearby enemies.

This would create a heal over time for about 800 health per second on a 40K health build, as well as provide a little damage to nearby enemies (the cost would be that it now performs as a toggle).

Vaoh

Oh believe me, most people understand how bad this skill is. It’s not the only thing from the Warden skill trees that is in dire need of big buffs though. Just one of them

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

Oh believe me, most people understand how bad this skill is. It’s not the only thing from the Warden skill trees that is in dire need of big buffs though. Just one of them

It is getting a buff with Summerset, up to 20% on the initial heal, can't wait to burst my health up on my warden with 20k+ initial hits and with polar wind, 20k+, that is more then enough to save any dps or healer that I might need to.


Come to think of it, every class will have a skill as a tank build that restores ~30% of the tanks health, with the new cloak that heals ~30% orver 3 seconds, the clanfear for sorcs and dks gdb and igneous shields. Only temps won't have a percentage based heal, only sunsheild is based on health, all other temp heals are based on magic. Kind of weird.

josiahva

mb10 wrote: »

A 4500 cost for what will be between 1800-3000 heal on most builds is really really bad.
When you take PVP into consideration that becomes between 900-1500 health restored for 4500 magicka lol.

To make that even worse every TWO seconds, you would receive between 180 - 300 health from this skill. Absolutely unbelievable. The numbers are in serious serious need for change for this skill.

I read from players who visited ZOS HQ that this will be buffed by 20% which is cool but Im hoping this works like coagulating blood and has the ability to crit. Is this already happening?



The morph that deals damage, Arctic Blast, deals damage every 2 seconds based on your maximum health. I'm hoping this can be changed to be based on your maximum magicka and spell damage, whilst hitting every 1 second as oppose to 2.

Magicka Wardens could really do with this buff and would work towards them having their own unique style of frost damage and protection abilities.

What do you think?

I agree on the heal...but it is interesting to me that there is a spell that scales off of max health...so I really dont think that should change...it could allow for some interesting tank builds. I dont think I have ever seen a Warden tank try to take advantage of this...never seen a Warden health tank....been ages since I have seen even a Templar health tank. Come to think of it...my DK tank at 50k health is the highest I have seen in awhile, ever since they nerfed shield spamming into the ground(how dare a tank actually extend his tankiness to the rest of the group!)

Blackmoon777

My ideas:
- scale all cold dmg from max. HP , also ultimates and light/hvy frost staff attacks
- Increas arctic wind heal to 20% and 4% every 2sec for 6 sec also increas Arctic Blast dmg to deal instant 20% HP as damage or 4% HP as dmg for 6sec
- increas Impaling Shards and morphs radius to 10m (from 6) and duration to 15 sec

Skander

CALM


Next patch they gonna buff it to a useful 30% inital tick. Which is nice

Zippy81

I'm a fan of the spell as it is. I'm running a curious wards stacking build where this spell helps a lot. I don't like too many oh *** buttons, abilities that work over time need planning and are often more powerful in the long run when they trigger passives, like maturation. I'd only change the tick to every 1 second. With iceheart monster set and combat physician as the 2nd set, it actually triggers both giving me huge protection.

DeadlyRecluse

If HP-scaling skills become balanced around non-HP stacking classes, they end up overpowered on the niche builds that do stack HP.

IMO, that's why they're kind of a terrible design for the current game. If you make blazing shield useful in PvP on your average, 26k health magplar, it becomes insanely OP on a 70k HP magplar. If you balance around the 70k dude, it becomes useless for every other spec.

Arctic wind suffers from the same problem.

mb10

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If HP-scaling skills become balanced around non-HP stacking classes, they end up overpowered on the niche builds that do stack HP.

IMO, that's why they're kind of a terrible design for the current game. If you make blazing shield useful in PvP on your average, 26k health magplar, it becomes insanely OP on a 70k HP magplar. If you balance around the 70k dude, it becomes useless for every other spec.

Arctic wind suffers from the same problem.

@DeadlyRecluse

Worst thing is, even at 70k health, you get 7k heal in PVE and 3.5k in PVP lol it's like the developers gave this skill ZERO thought when they made it

Lmao how on Earth can you get a 3.5k with a 70k hp build in a place like Pvp?

No idea if it can crit or not but either way it's dreadful

Solariken

Yep that skill is total garbage in its current state. The damaging morph should absolutely scale on magicka & spell dmg (as should the "offensive" morph of Crystallized Shield).

jypcy

The buff as reported by the zos invitees is welcome for sure, but a reminder that testing skills before critiquing them is good practice. So you know, the skill can crit and is decent— not great, but decent— for tanks as is. And yes I know, not everyone tanks on a warden, but imo of any class they have the clearest divide in class skill trees of a damage tree, a tanking tree, and a healing tree. Wanting an über dps heal from the tank tree seems.... idk, off? Like, there’s a whole tree dedicated to healing of which most skills scale off of spell dmg/magicka, so it’s not like mag wardens just don’t have access to heals. And generally skills have a fair usability crossover between pve and pvp, but there are exceptions. Petrify is a great skill for pvp. I would probably cry-laugh if I saw someone use it in pve. It’s just knowing the skills that will be effective for which builds in which contexts.

mb10 wrote: »

Magicka Wardens could really do with this buff and would work towards them having their own unique style of frost damage and protection abilities.

I mean, as far as protection abilities go, that’s like... what the whole tree does already. Then, winters revenge is a fairly strong ice aoe and, particularly for pvp, permafrost is imo one of the strongest ultimates in the game rn. If you want frost damage to be on par with lightning or fire, tho, improving the dot on a skill is not gonna be the answer. The whole principle that zos has implemented behind how frost damage works would need to change.

xaraan

From a tank perspective, this skill is horrible. I get better burst healing from other skills that aren't even supposed to be built for straight burst healing like this health based self heal. (Skills that don't even scale off health and still hit better off a tanks weaker magicka and spell damage pool).

At this point, with NB getting the self heal, putting it in league with DK and Sorc for tanking self heals, this leaves the two classes thought of as 'healers' more often than not in the dust in this department. There are a lot of other tools for my Warden in both healing and other areas that leave my Templar tank in the dust at least, so he's not as pitiful as my Templar tank, but every class should have a solid health based self heal for tanking and Polar Wind is not it.

Seems odd that everyone thinks of my Warden tank as the healy tank when I feel the weakest personally on it healing wise.

If they buffed this ability TO 20%, not by 20%, it would at least be worth using, even if not quite as strong as other burst heals, the following HoT would add something to make up for that. But 10 to 12% is frankly... 'meh'.

And I'm sure the thought that it (one morph) can also heal an ally, but you could still have that heal hit half as hard as the self heal, or just have the HoT apply and not the burst to an ally. Heck, I'd even give that up completely just to have a better self heal as I'd never use this skill to heal someone else.

And anyone using a crit heal as an example is fooling themselves and cherry picking. On a tank build, your crits are 25% on the good end on average if you look at combat metrics. You don't base a heal on having to crit to be good and at it happening only a quarter of the time just doubles the craziness in acting like the crit heal is the normal heal.

Ragnarock41

Its almost as garbage as green dragon blood lol. That being said these abilities are meant for tanks with high hp.

Gargath

It's not entirely a garbage but should be buffed, eg the tick 1 sec instead of 2 secs, also the cost is way too high, no idea why so much magicka.
My low lvl frosty mag warden dd use it mainly for an additional aoe. Even with high cost it's still usefull. I use purple frost staff with charged trait, most mobs are immobilized from the first tick of Wall of Frost, then Winter's Revenge and run to them with Arctic Wind.
Maybe not the most efficient way but I wanted to make a pure frost warden fun build.

StoicSunbro

This does a measly 4k instant heal on a 30k hp tank. I just slot Enchanted growth since it heals for more and usually the group is in front of me.

Tanking is largely about resource management. DKs can actively funnel surplus Magicka into Stamina via procing the Helping Hands passive with Igneous Shield spam.

I'd like to see this skill give a moderate amount of Stamina on-cast in addition to more health (20%) to fill a gap in the kit and making the skill more invaluable to tanks.

This may be too much, but the mostly unused frost damage morph could also apply Minor Magickasteal to target it hits, with the damage then proccing that debuff.

KingShocker

I run a max health warden just to test and see how effective these health based skills can be (which isn't very much even at 70K+ health). The skills should be as cheap to use as there effects are weak or effects buffed, however, buffing the health based element of these skills could easily tip these skills into OP. maybe add a non health based component or buff to them, so that their floor is raised more than their ceiling (I hope that makes sense).

mb10

How a frost magic spell HEALS you is totally beyond me, its never happened in Elder Scrolls before and ZO have tried to implement it and have failed.

Make it a damage dealing spell, we have green balance for heals.

xaraan

I have found this ability to be one of the least useful ways to heal myself on my warden tank and being that that is its main purpose, that really tells you something. Going from 10-12% on the heal won't change its usefulness.

Vaoh

xaraan wrote: »

I have found this ability to be one of the least useful ways to heal myself on my warden tank and being that that is its main purpose, that really tells you something. Going from 10-12% on the heal won't change its usefulness.

It was pretty hilarious how they phrased the “buff” before it happened. Pretty much all Wardens were lead to believe it would become a 20% initial heal since ZOS has hyped up the buff so much...... but instead they actually meant a 20% buff to the initial heal value.... aka 10% initial heal increased to 12%. I legit felt like I had been trolled

VilniusNastavnik

Honestly, I'm with @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on this.

I run a 35K HP Healz tank. I use this skill as an initial taunt. I can proc it and stand in trash on vet dungeons and the tick will keep me alive easily.

What I am annoyed about is the Gripping shards skill. You require 48 Health to deal 1200 damage per tick, but only 21K Magicka for the other morph. So as a Mag tank (30K Magicka), damage wise, it is better for me to run the Gripping shards morph if I want to deal damage, however as a Tank, I need that snare from Winter's revenge.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=23813