Reasons for playing a underpowered class when you have better alternatives?

victoriana-blue

rustic_potato wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

This is something that has intrigued me for a while. ZOS balancing of the game seems to be cyclical where one particular class gets uberbuffed and performs significantly better than other classes. I typically figure out which class performs best for a patch based on my PTS testing and main that class for the period of that patch for both PVE and PVP.

For example in PVE I used to main a magplar from Thieves guild to Homestead. mSorcs became uber strong in Homestead and I switched to those. In Morrowind it became clear that mNB would be the best performing magika class after PTS testing and have enjoyed playing the class since then.

However I see players who continue to play classes that are underpowered and clearly not the best for that patch and then complain a lot on the forums. I don't really understand why people stick to these classes. Wouldn't the game be more fun if you have a variety of options to choose from and choose the best of those?

can you be sure that your testing applies to every possible situation? (real question, not baiting or whatever the young people do.)

My testing applies to only my play style. For PVE DD my requirements are: has to be magika, has to be able to run vMA is less than 40 mins and do high DPS. I choose which ever class meets those requirements consistently. I could do more DPS if I play stam but that is not my play style.

I think you inadvertently answered your original question

Well part of my question is that why continue to play on a class when it doesn't meet your requirements? I guess attachment to a character is the primary reason from what i can infer from this discussion.

The forums are filled with complaints about how people find that they are not having fun because their class cant do certain things while other classes can do it. Why not play those other classes instead?

Speaking as someone who hasn't been back to vMA since Morrowind dropped, my requirements are that the gameplay be fun, not that I get top tier results. I'm quite happy playing viable-but-not-optimal builds, viable being the operative word. I really like nightblades, my main is a Breton stamblade because I love Bretons and stamblades, and having the option to cloak past mobs instead of engaging in combat is a godsend in open world stuff; on the other hand, before Homestead I promised myself never to run a DK or Warden because I'm stubborn and petty about retcons.

When my characters aren't viable for X content anymore, it feels like someone pulled the rug out from under me and I hate it. Failing at things I used to be able to do & enjoy is awful, especially when it's not that I got worse, it's that my fun is collateral damage in a bigger plan. It's the difference between my experiences of Homestead and Morrowind: after Homestead being a stamina dps in a normal trial group was doable, if unusual, but when Morrowind dropped my NB tank went from maintanking nMoL & learning vDSA to having trouble with vet DLC dungeons, and going from CP350 to CP750 hasn't really helped because I still don't have the resources to provide the group support people expect while staying alive.

On the other hand, making a new character? Boring as ***. I rolled a magsorc.. six months ago, I think? Maybe nine? And I only got him to lvl 50 this past weekend. One Tamriel made this so much better than before, since I can go adventure in any zone instead of being restricted to the same zones every time, but still. I like novelty, and doing the same delves and quests and world bosses over again is boring. At least mat farming has novelty in which route I take and how many mats drop.

rustic_potato wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

I wasn't clear enough. I was just explaining my reasoning behind choosing what to play. Different people have different reasons. However they stick to a particular class even when that reason or requirement is not met. Which is strange.

I have 4 mains that i have been plying since PC launch, each of which can solo most group dungeons on vet and has cleared vMA.

I'm not going to change how they are setup just because someone on the internet decided to proclaim that the current flavor of the month has changed.

Fair enough. Now say in an extreme situation your 4 mains are nerfed to obvilion that you cannot clear first stage of vMA and there is this new class that could do it. Would you still stick to your 4 mains or would you try this new class?

Me, I'd probably quit the game. Considering all the different builds people have taken through vMA, if something can't pass the first stage the class is probably dead anyway.

victoriana-blue

DoctorESO wrote: »

It has been written that "the overpowered shall become the underpowered, and the underpowered shall become the overpowered."

The Wheel of Balance turns, and Metas come and pass, leaving parses that become legendary. Discussion fades to rumour, and even rumour is long forgotten when the Meta that gave it birth comes again.

DoctorESO

victoriana-blue wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

It has been written that "the overpowered shall become the underpowered, and the underpowered shall become the overpowered."

The Wheel of Balance turns, and Metas come and pass, leaving parses that become legendary. Discussion fades to rumour, and even rumour is long forgotten when the Meta that gave it birth comes again.

Nice!!!

GeorgeBlack

Some people prefer to play what they like.
Others cannot play if they cannot win 10/10

Anotherone773

I play whatever i want, i dont really care what is FOTM or what everyone else is playing. To each their own. The only real retooling im going to do is when Summerset comes out, ill probably switch up gear. I also like using sets that arent meta. Its fun to use something different.

Cage_Lizardman

Following the meta never worked that well for me. I can try to copy some meta build and rotation, but I don't get the same results anyway. So I find other ways that I like to play.

Drdeath20

The questing in this game was bad enough the 1st time. Leveling up undaunted, your horse, mages guild and roaming around for skyshards it all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

People say they can do it in a few months but thats a long slow grind for me.

RavenSworn

Fun, because that's why I play games.

Odnoc

I play for fun, and though I’m not a big rper, also for the rpg aspect of an mmoRPG so I don’t do meta, and not for a high dps epeen

Xvorg

rustic_potato wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Perhaps their enjoyment of a class isn't based on "currently most powerful"?

That was just an example on how I choose my class. They should have a criteria for choosing a class to play and if that criteria is not met why continue playing that class?

Because you can be the one that breaks the meta?

AverageJo3Gam3r

Achievements and pvp ranks

Daimmyo

#0-***-given-about-the-meta

I play what I want and how I want, not in the way somebody else thinks I need to play.

I mean I can check and test for the ideas - but it's hard I'm going to submit to that.

Narvuntien

Have you heard of the gamer psychological profiles?
Achiever, Explorer, Killer, Socialiser.

The meta followers, particularly for PVP but I think it also fits for PVE, are Killers. They derive achievement in a game from winning, from being better than other players. They would never settle for less than the best. They compete for the highest DPS. I am more familiar with the MTG archetype "Spike"

Achiever, obviously they are those achievement chasers. But they derive enjoyment by achieving things. They aren't comparing themselves to others only about their own personal growth as a player. They will follow the meta but only as a way to achieve their goals and they would never begrudge another for not following meta (Unless they are standing in their way of an achievement).

Explorer, These are the people that are playing the off meta picks. They like exploring systems and trying to make things that shouldn't work work. Being unique and creative is where they find enjoyment. It is the nature of Elder Scrolls games that actually attracts these kinds of players, because exploration is such a big part of these games.

Socialisers, They are the Rpers, the Guild Masters and the people in Zone chat. They find enjoyment in playing with other people. They'd rather casually overland quest than run a vet dungeon... unless someone asks them. They will play whatever they want.

I think in reality people aren't one dimensional and are always a mix of these.

You have your Killer Achievers gunning for Emperor. You have your Explorer Socialisers that just like being out in the overland zones exploring.

The Explorer Killers.... they are the ones that will take a concept and push it to the extreme. They will take something off meta and push it to the best it can possibly be, to prove how good and clever they are and how everyone else is wrong about the class/role/race combination. Socialisers may want to do things with their killer or achiever friends but feel like they are letting them down when they can't perform.

Where we get friction however is the Achiever Explorers. Explorers that want to achieve things that they set for themselves say like tanking a Vet trail as a Templar tank. If the game mechanics don't let them do that then its super frustrating for them. And as I said this game has a lot of explorers and MMOs become very achievement focused. This game kind of pushes the explorers in that direction. Okay so I have seen every zone, done all the quests, completed all the dungeons on normal... whats next?.... whats that I can't do that with this character? What why can't I that sucks! I spent all this time and effort on making this character "perfect"

Ragnarock41

Because this isn't a competitive game. This isn't a game you play to be the best, because it always was, and always will be ridicilously unbalanced.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Because I’m lazy, got my bottom *** magsorc and current main stamknight. Stamknight’s never been in any vet content (cp720+)

Vahrokh

rustic_potato wrote: »

This is something that has intrigued me for a while. ZOS balancing of the game seems to be cyclical where one particular class gets uberbuffed and performs significantly better than other classes. I typically figure out which class performs best for a patch based on my PTS testing and main that class for the period of that patch for both PVE and PVP.

For example in PVE I used to main a magplar from Thieves guild to Homestead. mSorcs became uber strong in Homestead and I switched to those. In Morrowind it became clear that mNB would be the best performing magika class after PTS testing and have enjoyed playing the class since then.

However I see players who continue to play classes that are underpowered and clearly not the best for that patch and then complain a lot on the forums. I don't really understand why people stick to these classes. Wouldn't the game be more fun if you have a variety of options to choose from and choose the best of those?

You did not mention the other option, which is very powerful and - when done massively - would force ZOS to balance classes better.

When my class has been totally gutted, I quit ESO for 2 years. 360 euros loss for ZOS just from one player.

Crom_CCCXVI

Because only a pansy switches their class everytime the META changes by .000001%. That is pathetic

rustic_potato

[

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Because only a pansy switches their class everytime the META changes by .000001%. That is pathetic

Lol. Well good for you. Seeing from your post history how you whine a lot about balance changes it kinda is hypocritical. Whatever floats your boat.

MerlinPendragon

If you're trying to break records in trials or be an uberGod in PVP, perhaps changing to the flavor of the month Meta build makes sense. Otherwise, pick a class or build you enjoy.

Likewise, there are enough character slots for you to have a diversified line up of uberMeta characters and fun ones. Anyone suggesting that people quit en masses to stick it to Zos because one or two abilities get nerfed probably doesn't belong in ESO in the first place.

Zordrage

If necromancer would be a Class

i would NEVER EVER switch off from it even if its the worst class in the game for both tanking and DPS....

Its all about the Class Theme and feel of playing it then the Actual Power of the class.. Allot of people sadly never understands it and the same people allot of the times also Shoot down good ideas because of ignoring this Big fat Thing...
Like wanting a Necro class for example...

Sparr0w

It's just long mate...

DaveMoeDee

A lot of use don't even know when our class is suboptimal. And we are enjoying the game quite fine while ignorant. Most people don't even know their DPS.

Mr_Nobody

You just like it and stick with it no matter what. Except for Magicka templars, these are dead. Magwardens got better heals now. Idk whats their place

Purdomination33

Time. Period. Takes hours upon hours to create alts and gather enough Skyshards, gear and so on. A lot of adults play this game when they can find time. Multi hour gaming sessions are in the rear view mirror for many of us.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Well i started out as a woodelf (I Grahtwood ) nightblade since i played that since Oblivion) as i played more and more open with more confidence, I found myself more and more realizing that i died in situations where i would have survived as a stam dk. So i made my argonian Tank(i played him as a stam dk in the “Black RoseTime“ ) into a “woodorc“ stam dk (Hey i gotta stick to the lore with my house in greenshade :-P
Same playstyle and armor sets but it feels as if my build got pumped full with steroids. Same armor sets and Playstile just different class and race. Who cares stam dk isn't best for open worldPvP but it's soooo much fun.

Aknunsus

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well part of my question is that why continue to play on a class when it doesn't meet your requirements? I guess attachment to a character is the primary reason from what i can infer from this discussion.

The forums are filled with complaints about how people find that they are not having fun because their class cant do certain things while other classes can do it. Why not play those other classes instead?

Certainly, attachment to a character goes a long way in explaining why people won't switch to the class that is considered the best for the current game build. I'm glad for this, imagine a game where everyone plays the same class (the current "best" class) -- *yawn* boring.

Time investment is another reason, not everyone has the time to level multiple characters up to the point the can just switch back and forth, whenever a certain class becomes the "best" class. This is tied in with character attachment, the more you play that character the more attached you will become.

Style is perhaps the third most relevant reason for sticking with a character, mmorpgs are about more than getting to the top rung and hammering out vet content. While not everyone dives into the full depths of role-playing in mmorpgs, there is still the role-playing element -- some people just have an affinity towards one class or another.

I would have to agree, to a certain extent, that complaining about not being able to do what another class can do is fairly ridiculous, in terms of skills, etc. But, there is at least some merit to a complaint that one class appears to have been elevated above the others for DPS, or [insert role]. Players crave equity, so that they can play the character/class they love, and still keep up with the activities they want to engage in.

Sorry this became more winded that I expected...

TLDR: Three reasons for not changing classes (1) attachment to character, (2) time investment, (3) Style/RP-element. And, generally, players complain because they crave equity where they see inequity.

VonSwaego

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

For the fun of it. I'm not one for BiS or FoTM stuff. I like to explore, experiment, try things instead of marching along with the crowd.

This

jerj6925

rustic_potato wrote: »

This is something that has intrigued me for a while. ZOS balancing of the game seems to be cyclical where one particular class gets uberbuffed and performs significantly better than other classes. I typically figure out which class performs best for a patch based on my PTS testing and main that class for the period of that patch for both PVE and PVP.

For example in PVE I used to main a magplar from Thieves guild to Homestead. mSorcs became uber strong in Homestead and I switched to those. In Morrowind it became clear that mNB would be the best performing magika class after PTS testing and have enjoyed playing the class since then.

However I see players who continue to play classes that are underpowered and clearly not the best for that patch and then complain a lot on the forums. I don't really understand why people stick to these classes. Wouldn't the game be more fun if you have a variety of options to choose from and choose the best of those?

This is not an insult but You are every game developers dream customer, just pull out the carrot on the stick and you will carry them anywhere.

Story quests are fun once... just once..
finding shards is fun once... just once..
finding books to unlock mage skill line is fun once.. just once
running dungeons is fun a hand full of times ... not as a full time job day after day after day to level up a skill line...

MinarasLaure

As a magden I'm a pretty good healer and a loldps.
The reason why I still play also as a dps is because with the right gear you can be a very good healer even without investing cp which means I get to choose what I want to play just gear swapping.

Aesthier

Like you stated above OP, class nerfs and adjustments are cyclical. Sometimes that falls the following week sometimes it falls the following month or even year.


Some people find following the FotM fun and exciting. However, I do not. Even if I did enjoy chasing the FotM due to my schedule I am not able to effectively create and focus on a toon of every class and possible build.

For me I find it more challenging to be able to see if I can make something effective out of the nerfs ZoS has doled onto my class or skill set up than to bounce from toon to toon chasing whatever class seems to be OP at the moment. This also allows me the opportunity to become more familiar with the abilities available to my chosen class than those who tend to bounce from class to class when adjustments are applied.

Because nerfs and tweaks are cyclical, I can trust that eventually ZoS will either nerf all other classes or tweak my own until the one I enjoy is back within the balance of the others, at which time I can apply the greater knowledge I have gathered by sticking with it.

There is nothing wrong with chasing the FotM; it is just a different playstyle with a different set of rewards.


As far as complaining on the forums I completely understand why someone would not want an ability they have come to rely upon nerfed; when it has not been changed "in years" but only now looked at (or nerfed) because some new set or tweak to another class has opened the possibility of imbalance.

I am a strong advocate for adding to content rather than removing from it. ZoS's issue has been that they did not in the beginning properly balance the skill lines and individual skills appropriately and this led to "rebalance issues" which are magnified most of the time they try to come up with new content and causes old stuff to face possible redesign.

It is what it is I suppose.