Vet min req

efduncanub17_ESO

can we not get item lvl and cp level requirements for Vet dungeons? Trying to do randoms and so often people shouldn't even be in the que

Guarlet

No to item level requirements, but I think it would be quite the improvement if 160 CP was required before queuing into a vet dungeon. If not for all vet dungeons, then at the very least, for the DLC and "II" dungeons. If you don't have 160 CP on those, then you are actively dragging down your party.

AlnilamE

Isn't CP 160 already required for queueing for vet?

Guarlet

AlnilamE wrote: »

Isn't CP 160 already required for queueing for vet?

Nope. Just have to reach level 50.

Seri

AlnilamE wrote: »

Isn't CP 160 already required for queueing for vet?

160 is minimum for being given a DLC dungeon if you queue for vet random. You can still get non-DLC vet randoms (which, IMO, is fine).

Pretty sure you can still manually queue for a DLC dungeon below 160 though.

phileunderx2

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Anotherone773

Why shouldnt they be in the queue? Because they cant meet your requirements?

Jameliel

Vet dungeons very clearly have varying degrees of difficulty. They need to be clearly rated and labeled. Fungal Grotto 1 is absolutely doable, even for many who are lower than CP160. SCP, Fang Lair, Falkreath Hold, these dungeons are difficult even at higher xp levels until you learn the mechanics. Even at that, throw in some lag, bar-swapping not going smoothly due to the aforementioned lag along with several other variants, and they are always a wipe waiting to happen.

Someone in charge at ZOS needs to take the initiative, momentarily step away from plotting how to maximize profits, and FIX and CREATE some basic features within the game. The main focus should be on the current grouping tool. It needs to be totally redesigned to include Dragonstar Arena and "Trials"(wth..just call a raid a raid). It needs to include stars or some indicator of difficulty level. It also needs to allow search by class and role. Players should only be allowed to join content appropriate for their level-range.

But......seems unlikely to happen if this basic feature available in most other successful or even now-dead MMOs hasn't been implemented within these 4 years or so the game has been out. The crown store sure looks well-organized though:/

CompM4s

300cp for vet dlcs would be good. 160 is fine for regular vet dungeons.

Nothing against newer players, its just unrealistic considering how difficult the dlc dungeons are.

Anotherone773

Jameliel wrote: »

Vet dungeons very clearly have varying degrees of difficulty. They need to be clearly rated and labeled. Fungal Grotto 1 is absolutely doable, even for many who are lower than CP160. SCP, Fang Lair, Falkreath Hold, these dungeons are difficult even at higher xp levels until you learn the mechanics. Even at that, throw in some lag, bar-swapping not going smoothly due to the aforementioned lag along with several other variants, and they are always a wipe waiting to happen.

Someone in charge at ZOS needs to take the initiative, momentarily step away from plotting how to maximize profits, and FIX and CREATE some basic features within the game. The main focus should be on the current grouping tool. It needs to be totally redesigned to include Dragonstar Arena and "Trials"(wth..just call a raid a raid). It needs to include stars or some indicator of difficulty level. It also needs to allow search by class and role. Players should only be allowed to join content appropriate for their level-range.

But......seems unlikely to happen if this basic feature available in most other successful or even now-dead MMOs hasn't been implemented within these 4 years or so the game has been out. The crown store sure looks well-organized though:/

I kind of like the rating system idea. If you werent here prior to DLCs its hard to separate the harder dungeons from the easier ones until you run them enough. I remember the first time i was put in a DLC dungeon on normal and it had raid mechanics and i was like WTF. i kept checking to make sure i was on normal and didnt somehow get vet. Its weird to see raid mechanics in normal dungeons.

I honestly think normal DLC dungeons are a bit to hard. Normal is to learn basics, not be raid ready. Then you have some dungeons, again normal mode, like scalecallers which is just ridiculous. Damage coming from everywhere, mobs, the environment, corpses. Starting to get a little carried away now.

I think their should be 4 options( or more) in group finder just for dungeons. Separating at least the classic from DLC dungeons. And then one for normal trials and vet trials.

I also think they should use the standard 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps grouping and adjust the dungeons accordingly. This would soak up an extra DPS every run and help with the wait times, i think. Though they should also fix the broken queue. People are waiting 3 hours for a dungeon because they dont know its broken and that if you leave queue and reenter it you can usually get a dungeon in less than 15 minutes( server depending) even as dps.

efduncanub17_ESO

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Why shouldnt they be in the queue? Because they cant meet your requirements?

No but when you cant complete because your dps cant meet the requirements of a boss like Direfrost keep final boss Vet...

temjiu

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Jameliel wrote: »

Vet dungeons very clearly have varying degrees of difficulty. They need to be clearly rated and labeled. Fungal Grotto 1 is absolutely doable, even for many who are lower than CP160. SCP, Fang Lair, Falkreath Hold, these dungeons are difficult even at higher xp levels until you learn the mechanics. Even at that, throw in some lag, bar-swapping not going smoothly due to the aforementioned lag along with several other variants, and they are always a wipe waiting to happen.

Someone in charge at ZOS needs to take the initiative, momentarily step away from plotting how to maximize profits, and FIX and CREATE some basic features within the game. The main focus should be on the current grouping tool. It needs to be totally redesigned to include Dragonstar Arena and "Trials"(wth..just call a raid a raid). It needs to include stars or some indicator of difficulty level. It also needs to allow search by class and role. Players should only be allowed to join content appropriate for their level-range.

But......seems unlikely to happen if this basic feature available in most other successful or even now-dead MMOs hasn't been implemented within these 4 years or so the game has been out. The crown store sure looks well-organized though:/

I kind of like the rating system idea. If you werent here prior to DLCs its hard to separate the harder dungeons from the easier ones until you run them enough. I remember the first time i was put in a DLC dungeon on normal and it had raid mechanics and i was like WTF. i kept checking to make sure i was on normal and didnt somehow get vet. Its weird to see raid mechanics in normal dungeons.

I honestly think normal DLC dungeons are a bit to hard. Normal is to learn basics, not be raid ready. Then you have some dungeons, again normal mode, like scalecallers which is just ridiculous. Damage coming from everywhere, mobs, the environment, corpses. Starting to get a little carried away now.

I think their should be 4 options( or more) in group finder just for dungeons. Separating at least the classic from DLC dungeons. And then one for normal trials and vet trials.

I also think they should use the standard 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps grouping and adjust the dungeons accordingly. This would soak up an extra DPS every run and help with the wait times, i think. Though they should also fix the broken queue. People are waiting 3 hours for a dungeon because they dont know its broken and that if you leave queue and reenter it you can usually get a dungeon in less than 15 minutes( server depending) even as dps.

I agree. As a very proud casual player, I have ran into my share of bad experiences in DLC and Vet runs, and a large part of this is simply ignorance. The other day the guy who queued as a tank was in fact a DPS, and he was apologetic "Sry, this was so much easier on the I version, I could tank it there. II is tough!" Yet there both listed as normal.

We need a classification system. Simply listing something as I and II and DLC vs. Vanilla doesn't cut it from a learning curve perspective. They should set up something like:

Story Mode: basic normal I dungeons. Play what you want how you want, no one cares.
Challenge Mode: Normal II/DLC. You need to understand your role in the group (DD, Heals, Tank), and how to play it, as well as mechanics.

and perhaps even a third mode to separate II and DLC. Something like HardCore Challenge Mode: must know role well and be able to learn raid style mechanics in a small group setting.

Requirements...not sure. I do get why people want them though. as someone stated earlier...prior to cp160, running anything vet is a waste of time. you place an unhealthy burden on the group, AND the gear is literally wasted...you'll wear it for about 45m longer, perhaps a few hours at the most before a green or blue random drop outperforms it. and that also means that piece of gear is unusable for the rest of the group, even if they needed the set item. So I could see cp160 for Vet.

I also wouldn't mind some training elements to easy people into the harder tiers. quest lines that allow you to play a role, as an example, with a group of AI controlled NPC's as the rest of your "group" or something like that. quest markers are based on doing certain behaviors...rezzing an ally, meeting a damage threshold, holding threat so teammates don't die, avoiding red spots, etc.

Another idea that I've seen in other MMO's is to lock higher tiers behind completion objectives: need to finish the lower tier version first. This obviously wouldn't work for the DLC dungeons, but it would work great for Normal I, II and Vet.

badmojo

You do realize these dungeons were being done before champion points even existed?

BloodMagicLord

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

can we not get item lvl and cp level requirements for Vet dungeons? Trying to do randoms and so often people shouldn't even be in the que

Just no. What gives you the right to dictate who "shouldn't" be in the queue?
Dungeon finder is for everyone. If you don't want to play with noobs, don't use group finder and find a more organized group yourself.

This attitude is such cancer honestly, I have seen raiders being accused of being elitist, but in my experience that isn't true at all, it's the dungeon "community" that is the source of most elitism in ESO. I've seen people being kicked from extremely easy veteran dungeons by players who are absolutely awful themselves, just because they're not a high enough CP level. People have to wait for like 40 minutes to get a group sometimes, and then for you to just kick them out because you couldn't be bothered to make a group yourself is plain selfish.

ZOS really needs to take another look at the dungeon finder system in my opinion because at present it punishes newer players who decide to try out dungeons for the first time with an absolutely awful experience, and their impression of higher CP players must be pretty terrible as a result.

Soleya

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

Guarlet

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

PlagueSD

This has already been done. Per clockwork City patch notes. You DO read the patch notes, right??? (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376895/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-2-5-clockwork-city#latest)

Dungeons & Group Content:

General:
Adjusted the minimum level for the following Normal Difficulty dungeons to Level 45 for the purposes of using the Dungeon Finder

• Banished Cells 2
• Bloodroot Forge
• City of Ash 2
• Cradle of Shadows
• Crypt of Hearts 2
• Darkshade Caverns 2
• Elden Hollow 2
• Falkreath Hold
• Fungal Grotto 2
• Imperial City Prison
• Ruins of Mazzatun
• Spindleclutch 2
• Wayrest Sewers 2
• White-Gold Tower

Adjusted the minimum level for the following Veteran Difficulty dungeons to CP160 for the purposes of using the Dungeon Finder:

• Veteran Bloodroot Forge
• Veteran City of Ash 2
• Veteran Cradle of Shadows
• Veteran Crypt of Hearts 2
• Veteran Falkreath Hold
• Veteran Imperial City Prison
• Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun
• Veteran White-Gold Tower

Soleya

Guarlet wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

I've seen plenty of CP 700 players dragging down teams, and plenty of level 20's who can pull 20k dps, which is more than enough to beat vet dungeons.

swirve

Yeah had a CP10 in a PuG earlier.

Anotherone773

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

can we not get item lvl and cp level requirements for Vet dungeons? Trying to do randoms and so often people shouldn't even be in the que

Just no. What gives you the right to dictate who "shouldn't" be in the queue?
Dungeon finder is for everyone. If you don't want to play with noobs, don't use group finder and find a more organized group yourself.

This attitude is such cancer honestly, I have seen raiders being accused of being elitist, but in my experience that isn't true at all, it's the dungeon "community" that is the source of most elitism in ESO. I've seen people being kicked from extremely easy veteran dungeons by players who are absolutely awful themselves, just because they're not a high enough CP level. People have to wait for like 40 minutes to get a group sometimes, and then for you to just kick them out because you couldn't be bothered to make a group yourself is plain selfish.

ZOS really needs to take another look at the dungeon finder system in my opinion because at present it punishes newer players who decide to try out dungeons for the first time with an absolutely awful experience, and their impression of higher CP players must be pretty terrible as a result.

I 100% agree and the only reason i think their should be more separation is so that newer players can make more informed decisions on what to run.

I do see a lot of elitism in dungeons and group content and as an anti elitist, it irks me. If you want to only run with players that pass your requirements, that is what guilds are for. If i dont want to run with a group because they are really bad, really slow, or we/they die a lot. I leave. I dont blame them for being bad or wanting to run it on super casual. Sometimes i need to get through the dungeon more quickly. I dont belittle people for it. Im the one with the special need, so i drop and try to get a different group.

Anotherone773

Guarlet wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

Depending on your playtime/style. If you only play 1 or 2 hours a night and mat farm for an hour or socialize or what have you then it can take quite a long time. And running a single random queue below CP100 with a purple reward can net you 5-10 CP per run. So random queue at that level is the fastest way to level.

PlagueSD

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

Depending on your playtime/style. If you only play 1 or 2 hours a night and mat farm for an hour or socialize or what have you then it can take quite a long time. And running a single random queue below CP100 with a purple reward can net you 5-10 CP per run. So random queue at that level is the fastest way to level.

Yep, as soon as I was able to start random dungeons (Level 10, I think) I basically leveled to 50 exclusively via dungeon finder. Since I was a tank, this was actually faster than leveling since it takes FOREVER on a tank spec to kill anything.

efduncanub17_ESO

badmojo wrote: »

You do realize these dungeons were being done before champion points even existed?

Yes we had VR rank lol

efduncanub17_ESO

I'm in no way trying to be elitist I was a top raider in wow and couldn't stand it there and don't want it here...it just if you cant do the content the their should be a barrier...If your a dps waiting 30 min to an hour for a random and u get a lvl 50 dps with no gear in say Fang Lair vet its back to the que for more time

Seri

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm in no way trying to be elitist I was a top raider in wow and couldn't stand it there and don't want it here...it just if you cant do the content the their should be a barrier...If your a dps waiting 30 min to an hour for a random and u get a lvl 50 dps with no gear in say Fang Lair vet its back to the que for more time

Fortunately that shouldn't happen (and if it does, it's a bug) since from CWC, the DLC dungeons _shouldn't_ be able to be obtained via a random vet if you're under CP160.

Soleya wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

I've seen plenty of CP 700 players dragging down teams, and plenty of level 20's who can pull 20k dps, which is more than enough to beat vet dungeons.

Definitely - hence why I don't want sub-160 players prevented from base-game/vanilla vet randoms, since otherwise they hit CP160 and 'boom', no more scaling to boost them up a little, and (still) no experience in any vet dungeon.

zaria

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

It's pointless doing vets before you are cp 160. Any gear you get is soon going to be useless.

Except many new players do dungeons to level undaunted, which is important regardless of level.

It takes like a few days to reach 160 CP from Level 50. It's not hard at all to reach the point where you won't be dragging down everyone around you (as much), and that will make farming Undaunted easier for both yourself and your party. Everybody wins!

Depending on your playtime/style. If you only play 1 or 2 hours a night and mat farm for an hour or socialize or what have you then it can take quite a long time. And running a single random queue below CP100 with a purple reward can net you 5-10 CP per run. So random queue at that level is the fastest way to level.

Yes random dungeons is an fast way to level especially if you have alts, still normals are faster and you don't need the gear anywyay and you have not done all the normal dlc one yet, its not only an cp issue gear is more important here and below cp160 you are still in leveling gear, often very outleveled.
Stopped running random now but it was always normal for random, they and the easier vet are easy to pug, getting into the harder ones its guild only.

LeagueTroll

badmojo wrote: »

You do realize these dungeons were being done before champion points even existed?

Do you realize they buffed it at 1 tam?

badmojo

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

You do realize these dungeons were being done before champion points even existed?

Yes we had VR rank lol

People would regularly clear these dungeons at low veteran ranks. Still do.

badmojo

LeagueTroll wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

You do realize these dungeons were being done before champion points even existed?

Do you realize they buffed it at 1 tam?

We have also been buffed since release. Softcaps, 64 attribute points at level50, skill improvements, passive buffs, stamina overhaul, new abilities and skill lines, new consumables, new sets, easier to find jewelry.

Are you suggesting that a group of 4 skilled players on CP10 characters would have difficulty clearing these dungeons at this point in time?

I have played with max CP players who drag down the group and low CP players who performed excellent in a DLC dungeon. Judging players on CP alone is flawed.

red_emu

Basically what the OP is saying "LFM DD 6.8mil DPS +CP690 or GTFO"

Because newer players should not be doing any content and grind dolmens for 6 to 8 months before they are 'good enough'.

josiahva

Anyone CP160 can already complete any vet dungeon. The problem is NOT CP level, or gear level, the problem is simply skill level...and there will never be any filter for that.