Magicka supremacy returns with summerset

Feanor

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Yeah. Poor stam boys. The argument of being "harder to play" isn't really one on the top end, and that's where the DPS differences only really matter. Nobody cares if you bring a stam or mag char into a vet dungeon, not even a DLC one (unless you are going for no death and specific mechanics are really easier on one spec). Nobody cares if you're doing 70k or 50k on Domihaus or Valkyn Skoria or Zaan or the Earthgore Amalgam. Range and shields aren't really as powerful as they were because cloak from the DW line has been buffed quite a bit. So in the end, the very substantial DPS lead stam has isn't really justified.

Still, for the vast majority of players and almost all content it's meaningless. What's not meaningless is that stam still retains superior burst and awesome mobility in PvP. That's not going to change with the changes we can see so far. Cyrodiil still is going to be stam land.

Nelson_Rebel

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

The 2h Change helps DPS with this though. You can actually pull good dps from range with the new changes allowing your backbar to maintain a 5th piece bonus for those phases where stam is generally closer. In some of the newer content.


I'm not downplaying it, its's just I have my stam DK toon and this is generally my experience in how I do the trials and up to this point the only time where the mechanics hurt my rotation is when I don't already know the mechanics are coming and at what health percentage the more complicated parts kick in.

The loss is only for a handful of seconds if I didnt lay down my dots beforehand


I dont disagree for Vet HoF though, they do need to change some of the trials mechanics to not force everyone to run like chickens everywhere.


But that also hurts mag too since if we dodge 1 to many times and hit a snage we are dead lol.


But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

Apache_Kid

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Yeah. Poor stam boys. The argument of being "harder to play" isn't really one on the top end, and that's where the DPS differences only really matter. Nobody cares if you bring a stam or mag char into a vet dungeon, not even a DLC one (unless you are going for no death and specific mechanics are really easier on one spec). Nobody cares if you're doing 70k or 50k on Domihaus or Valkyn Skoria or Zaan or the Earthgore Amalgam. Range and shields aren't really as powerful as they were because cloak from the DW line has been buffed quite a bit. So in the end, the very substantial DPS lead stam has isn't really justified.

Still, for the vast majority of players and almost all content it's meaningless. What's not meaningless is that stam still retains superior burst and awesome mobility in PvP. That's not going to change with the changes we can see so far. Cyrodiil still s going to ba stam land.

People do very much care about what character you bring into content. Many trials guilds are very strict about the team composition of a raid group so you are way off there.

Furthermore, the no death run/hardmode and other achievements are the main reason to do the content in the DLC dungeons for the great cosmetic rewards, why should the mechanics favor one spec over the other? Magicka ranged builds have infinitely more survivability and this new change will allow them to have even better DPS with this survivability.

Also, i strongly disagree that stam overperforms in PvP. I have played PvP on just about everything except a stamDK and feel that every build and class has strengths and weaknesses. I utterly destroy stam players on my magsorc. They can't even get through my shields most of the time and my health bar never gets touched. My MagDK? Mobility is fine, mistform, empowering chains is fantastic, No one gets away from my Zaan without beeing cooked with empowering chains. Magplar? Pressure I can keep up is insane and the heals are better than any class in the game. Magicka is fantastic in PvP. I have so many more deaths on my stamina toons compared to the magic ones. Yeah my stam ones might rack up more kills but thats the trade off i accept. Not all magicka classes have bad mobility. I do not see more stam or magicka but on my platform but a healthy balance.

PvP is alot more balanced in this game than people give it credit for.

Apache_Kid

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

The 2h Change helps DPS with this though. You can actually pull good dps from range with the new changes allowing your backbar to maintain a 5th piece bonus for those phases where stam is generally closer. In some of the newer content.


I'm not downplaying it, its's just I have my stam DK toon and this is generally my experience in how I do the trials and up to this point the only time where the mechanics hurt my rotation is when I don't already know the mechanics are coming and at what health percentage the more complicated parts kick in.

The loss is only for a handful of seconds if I didnt lay down my dots beforehand


I dont disagree for Vet HoF though, they do need to change some of the trials mechanics to not force everyone to run like chickens everywhere.


But that also hurts mag too since if we dodge 1 to many times and hit a snage we are dead lol.


But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

I mean, yeah I agree that the sky is not falling and stamina is not dead. I think that the loss of the stam support sets, sunderflame and NMG is going to hurt them worse, We will not see the effects until we see what trials guilds are doing with Team composition after the changes. I fear it will only be a couple stam characters now per raid. Guess we have to wait and see. PTS hasn't even come out yet so we are still so far in the unknown here.

Kanar

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

Wait, I said magicka supremecy returns. Not sure what killing stamina means, I agree it does sound like an exaggeration! Glad I didn't say it!

What I find a bit annoying is people rushing in and saying how good this is for 2h/bow and bow/bow when they never played those combos. Does every config benefit (dps-wise) from the changes? Yes. Do the changes give what was needed to bring these configurations up to par with dw/bow so that they are welcomed into raids? NO not really.

Here's a shocker: 2h/bow dps is good on live server! Yep! AND it has unique advantages over DW. Why isn't it in more trial groups? Cause all the online builds say DW. Someone puts out a sorc 2h build and all of a sudden we're seeing 2h sorc running around in trials!

Another one: bow/bow dps is already doing alright on live! Why isn't in trials? They die easily and they offer no unique benefit to the group, plus the stigma.

Can both configs benefit from more dps? Yes. But there are also some other hurdles to overcome esp for bow.

It doesn't matter how much more dps stam melee does if there is only room for 4 melee in a trials group due to mechanics. However once stam melee loses its dps advantage, why not bring all ranged DDs?

Nelson_Rebel

Kanar wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

Wait, I said magicka supremecy returns. Not sure what killing stamina means, I agree it does sound like an exaggeration! Glad I didn't say it!

What I find a bit annoying is people rushing in and saying how good this is for 2h/bow and bow/bow when they never played those combos. Does every config benefit (dps-wise) from the changes? Yes. Do the changes give what was needed to bring these configurations up to par with dw/bow so that they are welcomed into raids? NO not really.

Here's a shocker: 2h/bow dps is good on live server! Yep! AND it has unique advantages over DW. Why isn't it in more trial groups? Cause all the online builds say DW. Someone puts out a sorc 2h build and all of a sudden we're seeing 2h sorc running around in trials!

Another one: bow/bow dps is already doing alright on live! Why isn't in trials? They die easily and they offer no unique benefit to the group, plus the stigma.

Can both configs benefit from more dps? Yes. But there are also some other hurdles to overcome esp for bow.

It doesn't matter how much more dps stam melee does if there is only room for 4 melee in a trials group due to mechanics. However once stam melee loses its dps advantage, why not bring all ranged DDs?

You ignored my entire post so I guess I'll
ignore yours as well.



You realize in PvE trials that DW/BoW is the GO TO stam dps setup right?


Stam DPS is going up this patch ALONG with magicka, if you knew anything this would be GLARINGLY obvious to anyone who put 30 seconds of thought into their post. You however just said (oh no magicka can wear 5/5/2 ALONG with stamina) This also helps healers keep everyone alive INFINITELY easier meaning that close range combat is going to be favorable to healer setups with monster sets EARTHGORE being a huge factor, which means stamina will be Very much wanted since they can stand still more often without having to run with MORE powerful close range AoE heals going out now.


This patch is bringing PARITY. EVERYONE is being buffed both stam and magic, stamina is not getting nerfed here

klowdy1

Kanar wrote: »

Summerset is putting magicka back on top, where the game designers have always wanted it.

2h changes: no benefit for 2handers or bow, but clear benefit for staff users.
Sunder/nmg: clear nerf to organized stamina.
Psijic: magicka now gets minor force

My prediction: stamina will be far behind magicka when summerset arrives. Would love to be proven wrong.

Edit: also light/heavy attacks scaling better with max attribute: bigger buff for magicka than Stam.

Being as stam builds are using a bow half of the time, keeping set bonus for and five is going to be an obvious boost to those builds. I wouldn't say no benefit.

Kanar wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

2H and Bow can now have 5-5-2. That's can be a huge benefit.

In testing they were getting some parses for 2H/Bow which were close to DW/Bow.

No, because 2h/bow uses asylum 2hander and vMA bow, so there's no benefit. I already get close to dw/bow on live with 2h/bow...

You are assuming that will still be the best after the changes. Even if you go DW, you can still benefit from a set bow. There has been too little testing to say how this will end.

Kanar

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

Wait, I said magicka supremecy returns. Not sure what killing stamina means, I agree it does sound like an exaggeration! Glad I didn't say it!

What I find a bit annoying is people rushing in and saying how good this is for 2h/bow and bow/bow when they never played those combos. Does every config benefit (dps-wise) from the changes? Yes. Do the changes give what was needed to bring these configurations up to par with dw/bow so that they are welcomed into raids? NO not really.

Here's a shocker: 2h/bow dps is good on live server! Yep! AND it has unique advantages over DW. Why isn't it in more trial groups? Cause all the online builds say DW. Someone puts out a sorc 2h build and all of a sudden we're seeing 2h sorc running around in trials!

Another one: bow/bow dps is already doing alright on live! Why isn't in trials? They die easily and they offer no unique benefit to the group, plus the stigma.

Can both configs benefit from more dps? Yes. But there are also some other hurdles to overcome esp for bow.

It doesn't matter how much more dps stam melee does if there is only room for 4 melee in a trials group due to mechanics. However once stam melee loses its dps advantage, why not bring all ranged DDs?

You ignored my entire post so I guess I'll
ignore yours as well.



You realize in PvE trials that DW/BoW is the GO TO stam dps setup right?


Stam DPS is going up this patch ALONG with magicka, if you knew anything this would be GLARINGLY obvious to anyone who put 30 seconds of thought into their post. You however just said (oh no magicka can wear 5/5/2 ALONG with stamina) This also helps healers keep everyone alive INFINITELY easier meaning that close range combat is going to be favorable to healer setups with monster sets EARTHGORE being a huge factor, which means stamina will be Very much wanted since they can stand still more often without having to run with MORE powerful close range AoE heals going out now.


This patch is bringing PARITY. EVERYONE is being buffed both stam and magic, stamina is not getting nerfed here

You're all over the place. Build up something coherent before posting.

Kanar

klowdy1 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Summerset is putting magicka back on top, where the game designers have always wanted it.

2h changes: no benefit for 2handers or bow, but clear benefit for staff users.
Sunder/nmg: clear nerf to organized stamina.
Psijic: magicka now gets minor force

My prediction: stamina will be far behind magicka when summerset arrives. Would love to be proven wrong.

Edit: also light/heavy attacks scaling better with max attribute: bigger buff for magicka than Stam.

Being as stam builds are using a bow half of the time, keeping set bonus for and five is going to be an obvious boost to those builds. I wouldn't say no benefit.

Kanar wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

2H and Bow can now have 5-5-2. That's can be a huge benefit.

In testing they were getting some parses for 2H/Bow which were close to DW/Bow.

No, because 2h/bow uses asylum 2hander and vMA bow, so there's no benefit. I already get close to dw/bow on live with 2h/bow...

You are assuming that will still be the best after the changes. Even if you go DW, you can still benefit from a set bow. There has been too little testing to say how this will end.

I agree if you don't have a vMA bow it will be a benefit. I doubt we will be able to replace vMA bow though with a better 4+5 pc bonus bow, so the top end won't change. It will close the gap between those who are capable and incapable of finishing vMA.

SugaComa

Im hoping the game gives better balance by making stam and magica builds work together

I'd like to see less DoTs and AoE from stamina builds and less single target damage from magica builds so that in 4 man content your looking at tank, healer magica crowd damage dealer and stamina single target damage dealer

And obviously expanding on this into 12 man trials so all builds become viable

Nelson_Rebel

Kanar wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

But my point is that the OP is saying this kills stamina which is a grossly overexaggerated when all it is doing is helping everyone both mag and stam. Bows are getting a substantial buff with this

Wait, I said magicka supremecy returns. Not sure what killing stamina means, I agree it does sound like an exaggeration! Glad I didn't say it!

What I find a bit annoying is people rushing in and saying how good this is for 2h/bow and bow/bow when they never played those combos. Does every config benefit (dps-wise) from the changes? Yes. Do the changes give what was needed to bring these configurations up to par with dw/bow so that they are welcomed into raids? NO not really.

Here's a shocker: 2h/bow dps is good on live server! Yep! AND it has unique advantages over DW. Why isn't it in more trial groups? Cause all the online builds say DW. Someone puts out a sorc 2h build and all of a sudden we're seeing 2h sorc running around in trials!

Another one: bow/bow dps is already doing alright on live! Why isn't in trials? They die easily and they offer no unique benefit to the group, plus the stigma.

Can both configs benefit from more dps? Yes. But there are also some other hurdles to overcome esp for bow.

It doesn't matter how much more dps stam melee does if there is only room for 4 melee in a trials group due to mechanics. However once stam melee loses its dps advantage, why not bring all ranged DDs?

You ignored my entire post so I guess I'll
ignore yours as well.



You realize in PvE trials that DW/BoW is the GO TO stam dps setup right?


Stam DPS is going up this patch ALONG with magicka, if you knew anything this would be GLARINGLY obvious to anyone who put 30 seconds of thought into their post. You however just said (oh no magicka can wear 5/5/2 ALONG with stamina) This also helps healers keep everyone alive INFINITELY easier meaning that close range combat is going to be favorable to healer setups with monster sets EARTHGORE being a huge factor, which means stamina will be Very much wanted since they can stand still more often without having to run with MORE powerful close range AoE heals going out now.


This patch is bringing PARITY. EVERYONE is being buffed both stam and magic, stamina is not getting nerfed here

You're all over the place. Build up something coherent before posting.

No, it's clearly obvious what I'm saying.


Just because you hate points that prove you wrong doesn't mean they arent there.


Stamina is being buffed no matter what way you look at it, in PvP and PvE their damage and survivability is going to increase.


And so are magic toons, the 5th piece bonus being given to them buffs their damage to be on par with stamina.


You say why bring stamina if they are both going to do similar damage? Because stamina still brings unique damage modifiers and burst capabilities outside the scope of magic toons regardless what 5 piece set they put on. Stamina will be even more survivable because healers will be able to use those monster sets now that have insane heals, and guess how those heals are applied? In a short range favoring...you guessed it stamina.


Stamina is going to be just fine there chicken little and I will be playing my Stam Dk all through this chapter lmao

Ragnaroek93

Needs to be tested on PTS before we can make a judgement. I'm worried too that magicka might become too strong but in general I think the changes are good. If magicka turns out to be too strong (they already have the upper hand in duels in my opinion) it would be the best to boost the defense stamina has (make one Vigor morph a selfheal only but buff it) instead of nerfing magicka.

Edit: Threads like these are funny because you can see arguing a couple of fools who know nothing about the patch yet

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Kanar wrote: »

Summerset is putting magicka back on top, where the game designers have always wanted it.

2h changes: no benefit for 2handers or bow, but clear benefit for staff users.
Sunder/nmg: clear nerf to organized stamina.
Psijic: magicka now gets minor force

My prediction: stamina will be far behind magicka when summerset arrives. Would love to be proven wrong.

Edit: also light/heavy attacks scaling better with max attribute: bigger buff for magicka than Stam.

2 handers and bows have also two slots now right. But you wont swap out the maelstorm bow because is too OP

sunder/nmg deserved a nerf as they were overperforming in an organized group. Do you see such group magicka penetration alternatives? And if you say that magicka have spell pen passive in light armor, then why doent it have spell damage passive or stacking spell crit for each piece like medium armor does?

Stamina deserved a nerf. I have seen over 70k DPS from stamina charateres in trial groups.

I dont run in the best trial groups but in general stamina characters were doing about 25% more damage in trials compared to magicka toons (except for a few magicka mains that are just not people to me).

jssriot

I'm legitly tired of this. I have often wondered why they don't just remove stam from the game. I love my stam builds but am so tired of reworking them from top to bottom. This is not how I want to spend my time in-game--re-working build ZOS went and broke. Stam builds have always been more interesting and challenging, and thus more rewarding. If we get good, it's because we've invested ourselves into getting there, rather than double bar a couple pets or run around with 40k+ resource pools and triple stacked shields. And all ZOS does give us stam players reason to leave the game.

Also, not all of us who play stam builds are male players or people interested in being dps gods. So please leave your irrational high school resentment for stam players at the door. We just want to be able to play a build we like and enjoy and not be forced to play X build because it's what viable at the time for the content we want to do. I already had to do that with vMA and it makes vMA more of a chore, which disinclines me to spend a lot of time doing that content and is why I haven't' gotten the weapons I need yet.

But if the whole game becomes a chore, yeah. There's a reason I've been slowly disinvesting myself from certain aspects of the game and making sure I complete all the content I've paid for--I've felt this was coming for a while now and when the time comes for me to leave, i want to feel free to go.

WillhelmBlack

You mean Mag Sorc, Stamblade and stam Warden as they have and always will be.

Kodrac

Geroken777 wrote: »

Stamina keeps getting slapped in the face, counting the upcoming spell crafting as well. Stamina chars need love, ZOS.

The upcoming spell crafting you say... And it's hurting your stamina build already...

Kanar

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Summerset is putting magicka back on top, where the game designers have always wanted it.

2h changes: no benefit for 2handers or bow, but clear benefit for staff users.
Sunder/nmg: clear nerf to organized stamina.
Psijic: magicka now gets minor force

My prediction: stamina will be far behind magicka when summerset arrives. Would love to be proven wrong.

Edit: also light/heavy attacks scaling better with max attribute: bigger buff for magicka than Stam.

2 handers and bows have also two slots now right. But you wont swap out the maelstorm bow because is too OP

sunder/nmg deserved a nerf as they were overperforming in an organized group. Do you see such group magicka penetration alternatives? And if you say that magicka have spell pen passive in light armor, then why doent it have spell damage passive or stacking spell crit for each piece like medium armor does?

Stamina deserved a nerf. I have seen over 70k DPS from stamina charateres in trial groups.

I dont run in the best trial groups but in general stamina characters were doing about 25% more damage in trials compared to magicka toons (except for a few magicka mains that are just not people to me).

Sounds like you have good amount of trials experience. Do any of your groups bring more than half stamina melee DDs? Re:sunder I would have preferred them giving magicka a similar option; I always thought it was cool that there could be that level of teamwork amongst DDs.

TheHsN

Geroken777 wrote: »

Stamina keeps getting slapped in the face, counting the upcoming spell crafting as well. Stamina chars need love, ZOS.

Stamina NEED LOVE!!! REALLY u are all far atleast 10 k DPS from magicka... you want worshiping:D:D:D

jaws343

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

2H and Bow can now have 5-5-2. That's can be a huge benefit.

In testing they were getting some parses for 2H/Bow which were close to DW/Bow. Not quite there but it was closing the gap and that is with limited time for testing.

Well not really since the vma, vas 2h and vma bow outperform 4th pcs and 5th pcs setbonis.

It can helps ppl who do t have those weapons, bjt if you have them you still use them, simply cause they are better

DW/Bow setups may be unchanged since you can run two 5 piece and a monster set on the front bar already and the VMA bow is going to give a lot of damage in that setup, assuming the 2 5 piece sets are some combination of VO and a penetration set. This may remain true. But there is zero way to actually test this right now. It could end up being that the extra sustain you get from running VO and a pen set on both bars outweighs the damage gain from the VMA bow. Being able to run a 5th piece of VO on the back bar instead of the VMA bow could be better. But we won't know until it can actually be tested.

Also, there is zero way to know if running 2h/bow in Summerset will be more beneficial or less beneficial to running Asylum and VMA with only 1 5 piece set. You say that the VMA/VAS 2 hand and the VMA bow outperform the extra set pieces but you have zero data available to actually prove that, it's just baseless speculation since we cannot test it yet.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I guess for stamina classes it wont make too much difference, a nerf for everyone using a trial 2h weapon (5-5-1 or 5-3-2-1) and a buff for anyone using dropped or crafted sets (5-4-2). Noone uses 2H/bow setups in PvE anyway (without ridicule and group kicks).

It isn't a nerf for current 2-handed weapon builds. They should perform exactly like they perform now. A nerf would mean they perform worse than they do now. If you don't change your build to incorporate the set changes, your dps will most likely remain unchanged according to what has been reported so far. People need to stop calling everything a nerf.

Edited to say, the set update has zero effect on any current builds. Whatever DPS you get from them now you should get from them after the update. (Balance/skill changes aside, but those have little to do with this conversation)

Kanar

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Needs to be tested on PTS before we can make a judgement. I'm worried too that magicka might become too strong but in general I think the changes are good. If magicka turns out to be too strong (they already have the upper hand in duels in my opinion) it would be the best to boost the defense stamina has (make one Vigor morph a selfheal only but buff it) instead of nerfing magicka.

Edit: Threads like these are funny because you can see arguing a couple of fools who know nothing about the patch yet

I should have clearly stated that my post is about PvE to avoid confusion. But yes your point about it all being speculation right now is valid regardless.

Minalan

IV_Deity wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

2H and Bow can now have 5-5-2. That's can be a huge benefit.

In testing they were getting some parses for 2H/Bow which were close to DW/Bow.

No, because 2h/bow uses asylum 2hander and vMA bow, so there's no benefit. I already get close to dw/bow on live with 2h/bow...

Not all people who use 2H weapons, use vMA or Asylum weapons....this does benefit 2H users actually.

Some of the stamina crybabies are mad that ZOS made other gear choices viable than all of their end game raid garbage.

This is a good change, my master staff isn’t an instant win over someone who can only afford a willpower staff. I might need to, you know... Use skill to win?

Mindcr0w

Stamina keeps getting slapped in the face, counting the upcoming spell crafting as well

Wait...do people really think that if spell crafting ever goes live it won't come with the ability to craft stam based skills...?

Kanar

LaMagrank wrote: »

Stamina keeps getting slapped in the face, counting the upcoming spell crafting as well

Wait...do people really think that if spell crafting ever goes live it won't come with the ability to craft stam based skills...?

That was a joke post...

Mindcr0w

Aw. I really wanted someone to be that clueless. Oh well.

Kanar

I hope everyone is enjoying Elder Staves Online!
If you play stam, have fun trying to get perfected versions of Relequen . Probably better to make a mag alt to do the trial, to get your gear.
I've already started my break and will be back sometime in the future.

Heimpai

So I’ve been playing this game for about a month, only stamblade and it’s cp230..I’ve been wanting a magblade but don’t want to start over again (once is enough for me)..

Should i respec and go magblade or force myself to start a new char?