Magicka supremacy returns with summerset

Abysswarrior45

Cadbury wrote: »

Plus, add in the fact that Sorc and NB are possibly getting nerfs. I suspect SSI will make alot of players happy

Sorcs, WARDENS, and magplars were buffed... can someone explain this logic? Really... what the hell? Mag classes have access to a mobility tool too which is supposed to be a stam strength. Lol!!!

NyassaV

magic is more powerful than smacking someone with a sharp metal bar

dodgehopper_ESO

Brrrofski wrote: »

The changes to sunder and nmg makes me think.... Are they going to give medium a pen passive?

Medium needs love. Especially that stealth passive. It's useless for 4/5 of medium players. Take it out, add it to nb passives somewhere.

Also, why does 5 piece medium give less crit than 5 light? I've been running medium in PvP and my crit if I don't use a set which grants crit, is like 29.5%. I get 22% in heavy.... Magica gives 32% . Medium gets 12% WD, but there's heavy sets that proc a lot higher WD, hence the massive heavy armour meta in PvP. Make heavy armour reduce WD and SD by 20% while wearing 5 heavy. It'll encourage people to make a more difficult decision.

This isn't bias either, I play all classes, both stam and mag. Just an observation.

You mean give it to Thieves Guild maybe. Giving it to just NB would mean that other classes would be even worse at all things sneaky.

Brrrofski

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The changes to sunder and nmg makes me think.... Are they going to give medium a pen passive?

Medium needs love. Especially that stealth passive. It's useless for 4/5 of medium players. Take it out, add it to nb passives somewhere.

Also, why does 5 piece medium give less crit than 5 light? I've been running medium in PvP and my crit if I don't use a set which grants crit, is like 29.5%. I get 22% in heavy.... Magica gives 32% . Medium gets 12% WD, but there's heavy sets that proc a lot higher WD, hence the massive heavy armour meta in PvP. Make heavy armour reduce WD and SD by 20% while wearing 5 heavy. It'll encourage people to make a more difficult decision.

This isn't bias either, I play all classes, both stam and mag. Just an observation.

You mean give it to Thieves Guild maybe. Giving it to just NB would mean that other classes would be even worse at all things sneaky.

Yeh, that's even better.

Just not in medium. It's useless for all other classes in PvP (for the most part) and useless to everyone in dungeons/trials

Kanar

NyassaV wrote: »

magic is more powerful than smacking someone with a sharp metal bar

I agree, realistically magic should be more powerful. It's a videogame though so let's pretend you guys are only capable of casting cantrips. True magic lies outside your ability.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Wonder if they’ll re-balance the one piece 2H/Bow/Staves bonuses (maelstrom, asylum, masters) to account for the change

HoloYoitsu

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Wonder if they’ll re-balance the one piece 2H/Bow/Staves bonuses (maelstrom, asylum, masters) to account for the change

There's really a quite simple solution for that, ZOS could just add back the base stat boost component those weps used to have before they were redesigned. Those boosts were equivalent to 1 set bonus, so it would seem pretty sensible now that the special 2hand weps mean losing out on 2 set slots rather than just 1.

Like so

MLGProPlayer

Kanar wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Except magicka warden. Still utterly useless.

Hah yeah I was let down by the list of warden changes. Seemed smaller than every other class.

ZOS logic: don't buff the worst class in the game (in fact, nerf them instead).

SaintSubwayy

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

2H and Bow can now have 5-5-2. That's can be a huge benefit.

In testing they were getting some parses for 2H/Bow which were close to DW/Bow. Not quite there but it was closing the gap and that is with limited time for testing.

Well not really since the vma, vas 2h and vma bow outperform 4th pcs and 5th pcs setbonis.

It can helps ppl who do t have those weapons, bjt if you have them you still use them, simply cause they are better

karekiz

To all the talk about AS/VMA bows/ two hander weps as a reason to not bother with this change.

Do you REALLY want to farm those over and over for each alt or go through the hassle of handing between different characters? I don't. I welcome this change.

sinxsader

What's better in pvp stam dk or mag dk? I'm returning after a year and would really like to know...thanks!

Iskras

ZOS, nerf stam wardens!

ccfeeling

552 with bow front bar, Vma back bar
U still get benefit,why dont?

Baconlad

Guys...magplar got a slight buff to burning light...let's not forget that. Nerf empower for us...force us into staves which require a destroy skill to get the 8% buff and in which we have to choose between single target and aoe....


For God's sake can we please just separate the staff lines? Give us completely different skills for fire/ lightning/ frost...so sad that this....

Is there BIG BALANCE UPDATE. I can't wait to find out more info so I can continue to be more dissatisfied.

Oh and say hello to stam builds being even faster that you are this patch.

Nelson_Rebel

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Mister_DMC

karekiz wrote: »

To all the talk about AS/VMA bows/ two hander weps as a reason to not bother with this change.

Do you REALLY want to farm those over and over for each alt or go through the hassle of handing between different characters? I don't. I welcome this change.

Absolutely, all 4 of my Stam characters has a gold VMA bow and multiple gold DPS sets, all 4 of my magic toons has a gold VMA staff and multiple gold sets. Swapping is for casuals

Kova

"I don't like math and things like empirical evidence, so I use my own perception and feelings as my argument. If I say it frequently and with increased amplification, it has to be true." - Meta players (honestly, most people.)

Seriously, coming to the forums is like watching people argue over who the best superhero is. No matter how OP superman is, or how stupidly underwhelming Batman actually is, it's the same conditional arguments over and over with no numbers to back up claims.

Oh wait, the forums are worse because we have the resources and ability to test things readily available but just decide to not do that because of the above sarcastic quote.

Shadowmaster

Complete gear/skill game rewrite with every patch.

Fully regear, fully respec, probably re-race, blah blah blah

this game is an endless grind/microtransaction fest already, did we really need every class skill/spell being rewritten on top of the new paywalled BIS stuff

great for business, crap for enjoyability as a player

5 update from now I will have every %*#%^&%^ gear set in full YELLOW because nothing retains between patches.

Its like diablo3 but 500x the price

RIP

Shadowmaster

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Swapping is for casuals

LOL thats like me saying having no DLC is for the poors

what a ridiculously asinine statement

Shadowmaster

Baconlad wrote: »

Is there BIG BALANCE UPDATE. I can't wait to find out more info so I can continue to be more dissatisfied.
.

All I see is changes, but no "hey we did this because X was overperforming" guidance behind them.

Any chance we could get some reasoning behind all these changes @ZOS_GinaBruno ? I tried to tag @ZOS_robgarrett but all I can see in the list is @ZOS_RobertCordero who left years ago

Runefang

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Is there BIG BALANCE UPDATE. I can't wait to find out more info so I can continue to be more dissatisfied.
.

All I see is changes, but no "hey we did this because X was overperforming" guidance behind them.

Any chance we could get some reasoning behind all these changes @ZOS_GinaBruno ? I tried to tag @ZOS_robgarrett but all I can see in the list is @ZOS_RobertCordero who left years ago

To be fair, ZOS haven't said anything. It's only the playtesters so far who have listed the changes.

Kanar

ZoS just seems to be randomly making changes now with no clear design or plan.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I guess for stamina classes it wont make too much difference, a nerf for everyone using a trial 2h weapon (5-5-1 or 5-3-2-1) and a buff for anyone using dropped or crafted sets (5-4-2). Noone uses 2H/bow setups in PvE anyway (without ridicule and group kicks).

Irylia

Before you all start babbling about mag classes getting stronger just know that magsorc and magblade, to an extent, are semi pigeon holed into asylum or master destro neither of which will take advantage of the change.

That means you drop either staff to run the extra 5x at the expense of a higher costing reach spammable (+ lower dmg), a skill slot taken to run reach and crushing, or you use prison which isn’t optimal for open world pvp outside of meteor bombing. (Magblade no longer has its class stun)

Not to mention a lot of dk and templar classes already used a sb which provides them with what this new change now allows. Sb also provides higher dmg mitigation and fits their niche styles much easier.

Now that mag warden lost its only class stun on shalk they are forced into reach with a master staff or vamp drain which is clunky for setting up any burst potential.

Use the brain that god gave you.

Edziu

Beardimus wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Summerset is putting magicka back on top, where the game designers have always wanted it.

2h changes: no benefit for 2handers or bow, but clear benefit for staff users.
Sunder/nmg: clear nerf to organized stamina.
Psijic: magicka now gets minor force

My prediction: stamina will be far behind magicka when summerset arrives. Would love to be proven wrong.

Edit: also light/heavy attacks scaling better with max attribute: bigger buff for magicka than Stam.

Huh, why won't 2H or DW gain for stamina lol. Anyway stam has been dominant too long, a welcome change if your predictions are accurate

just lol, stam maybe is domination up to 1 last year but wasnt then magica domination nonstop since beta so over 3 years?

Apache_Kid

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Heka Cain

Wow! Really? Amazing! Super-duper! Fantabulous! Spectacular! Sublime! Bollox!!!

Nelson_Rebel

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

Apache_Kid

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You mean magicka PARITY with stam.



Dont forget stamina has been 15k higher than mag toons in DPS parses across the board.


The only difference is the gap will be closes and Magic has relevance in pvp agaisnt OP stam classes


So sorry you dont have the 15k advantage over cloth wearing stave people anymore

Don't forget that stam has higher DPS because they have to stop their full rotations for many different mechanics while ranged mag DPS can keep up full rotations during mechanics and due to being at range have better surviviability AND have shields for even more survivabiltiy while also being at range.

Well depending on what content you are talking about This is partially true. For Vet Maw the mechanics do favor magic to a certain degree for the Twins and Last boss, bar execute phase for Rakhat.

But for vSO It heavily encourages and favors Stam, for Last boss especially. Not to mention Ozara and The Troll. Matikora is tricky for both specs


vAA Is definitely heavier on the magic favor and the only boss that is favorable to stam is the Atronach


vHel Ra easily managed by both specs due to mechanics not favoring either

In the newer trials Halls of fabrication and vet asylum the Trials do not favor Either class specs, it is Mechanic heavy but not punishing to either spec unless you count vampirism for magic specs a detriment.


In all other content the mechanics vary but are easily managed by both.


The only difference up till now is that stamina toons had a clear advantage for damage capacity with the extra 5/5/2 setup. This was especially prevalent in pvp for burst damage

You didnt mention vAS which groups bring about 0 stam characters on usually, except maybe 1 stamplar. Also on the last boss of vHoF there is like 1 little spot where stam can stand on the side and actually hit the boss with all of their moves. And lets not even start on the new dungeons. Fang Lair and Scalecaller both heavily favor magicka builds as well. Vet Falkreath? When the boss pushes everyone out of the arena for 15-20 seconds? Stamina loses full rotation Magicka can keep up full-rotation. Seems to me like most content in the game favors magicka. Not only that, The last two dungeon DLCs and the last trial ALL favored magicka over stamina. I bet the new cloudrest Trial will be the same way. Every time a boss has a mechanic in which an aoe appears underneath the boss, a stam DPS has to roll dodge and get out of it or stop and block it or what have you.

This is tons of lost DPS.

Magicka can DPS throughout that entire mechanic. That is why stam should hit higher. Being able to DPS from full-range and have shields is a big advantage and you're downplaying it entirely.

Kanar

For all saying that stam is dominant, how many trial runs have you been in where all the DDs are Stam? I thought it was still a pretty even match of ranged and melee DDs because of mechanics.