Open letter to ZOS (Starting locations, questlines)

Radinyn

First of all, as probably everyone knows after Morrowind we started in other location than before. Here's my suggeston, it's very simple, just let us choose starting location. It shouldn't take too long, just simple UI change in the character creation screen.

And second, with new starting locations player can really be confused, because some parts of the story wouldn't make much sense without those made before. It could be something simple, like one pop-up just informing player how to complete zones to get into plot.
Simple version:

In my opinion those really small changes would affect the game much and help new players with understanding the plot.

Turelus

I fully support this and do hope ZOS adds it in.

Especially considering that chapters are a progressive story and not isolated. The events of Summerset come after Morrowind and Clockwork City no?

I know it's just a little thing but the ability to make a new character in the base game and do the story in order again without the hassle of starting in the future and getting on a boat to go backwards would be nice.

essi2

In-game dialogue will most likely be written in such a way that you can do the Chapters in any order, hopefully this will mean that certain NPCs won't even show up if you do it in the 'wrong' order.

Radinyn

essi2 wrote: »

In-game dialogue will most likely be written in such a way that you can do the Chapters in any order, hopefully this will mean that certain NPCs won't even show up if you do it in the 'wrong' order.

But still, the story makes most sense when it's done original way.

AdamSC

This change has been what has kept me from buying Morrowwind and Summerset. Would like to experience the other 2 alliance stories. So I will wait until I have I have done that to buy.

logarifmik

You have my full support in this. Long time ago I made a thread on similar regard as well.

Though, I have a weird feeling, that this new Daedric plot (Mephala, Nocturnal, Clavicus Vile) is a prequel for Molag Bal invasion. If so, then when the plot will be finished, I assume devs will give us an ability to choose starting location, providing two main quests at once: the old one, and the three Daedras plot. However, I don't have a clue, how they'll substantiate Vestige's ability to use wayshrines considering hir soul is intact, before Molag Bal's realm is violently visited. It's only my speculation on how one can make the whole storyline at least tolerable, but I fear that devs can leave it in the state of loosely connected narratives without any significant relation to the player's character.

ZeroXFF

Also please don't lock old players out of getting the new skill point again.

VaranisArano

logarifmik wrote: »

You have my full support in this. Long time ago I made a thread on similar regard as well.

Though, I have a weird feeling, that this new Daedric plot (Mephala, Nocturnal, Clavicus Vile) is a prequel for Molag Bal invasion. If so, then when the plot will be finished, I assume devs will give us an ability to choose starting location, providing two main quests at once: the old one, and the three Daedras plot. However, I don't have a clue, how they'll substantiate Vestige's ability to use wayshrines considering hir soul is intact, before Molag Bal's realm is violently visited. It's only my speculation on how one can make the whole storyline at least tolerable, but I fear that devs can leave it in the state of loosely connected narratives without any significant relation to the player's character.

Time wise, it happens after the Planemeld. How?

Orsinium takes place after the Planemeld. In the library, we find

Darien's note explaining what's been happening to him after the end of the Coldharbor finale and are visited by, for me anyway, the ghost of the Prophet warning us about the Daedra wars and the return of Clockwork City.

That follows up well on Molag Bal's comments at the end of the Main Quest.

Therefore, Clockwork City, at least, takes place after Orsinium, which takes place after the Coldharbor questline that ends the Planemeld and the final Battle with Molag Bal.


Now, I'm in full agreement that the devs should have kept the original tutorial and just changed where we washed ashore so the story would make some semblance of sense, but I'm not on the dev team.

logarifmik

VaranisArano wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

You have my full support in this. Long time ago I made a thread on similar regard as well.

Though, I have a weird feeling, that this new Daedric plot (Mephala, Nocturnal, Clavicus Vile) is a prequel for Molag Bal invasion. If so, then when the plot will be finished, I assume devs will give us an ability to choose starting location, providing two main quests at once: the old one, and the three Daedras plot. However, I don't have a clue, how they'll substantiate Vestige's ability to use wayshrines considering hir soul is intact, before Molag Bal's realm is violently visited. It's only my speculation on how one can make the whole storyline at least tolerable, but I fear that devs can leave it in the state of loosely connected narratives without any significant relation to the player's character.

Time wise, it happens after the Planemeld. How?

So why with the new chapters any new character starts with intact soul, before The Wailing Prison, huh?

And yeah, the story is a mess now.

feyii

I fully support this! Narrative wise having a new starting point every now and then doesn't make sense at all.
For people who've been playing this game for long and know the narrative order of DLCs, it's a smaller problem, but still there. But new players? How are they supposed to know how the story was originally told? For me it just wouldn't feel right, the way it is now.

An alternative would be (also for the base game) not to offer a region's main quest (not the prophet quests), until the previous region's main quest is completed. The same goes for the intro quests for Morrowind (should activate after completing tthe main quests of all regions of one alliance), CWC (should activate after Morrowind main quest) and Summerset (should activate after Morrowind). An exception could be Imperial City and the two guild DLCs, since they don't seem to be too tightly fit into the complete narrative. That way, people could explore most regions to their hearts desire and still experience the story in the right order.

VaranisArano

logarifmik wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

You have my full support in this. Long time ago I made a thread on similar regard as well.

Though, I have a weird feeling, that this new Daedric plot (Mephala, Nocturnal, Clavicus Vile) is a prequel for Molag Bal invasion. If so, then when the plot will be finished, I assume devs will give us an ability to choose starting location, providing two main quests at once: the old one, and the three Daedras plot. However, I don't have a clue, how they'll substantiate Vestige's ability to use wayshrines considering hir soul is intact, before Molag Bal's realm is violently visited. It's only my speculation on how one can make the whole storyline at least tolerable, but I fear that devs can leave it in the state of loosely connected narratives without any significant relation to the player's character.

Time wise, it happens after the Planemeld. How?

So why with the new chapters any new character starts with intact soul, before The Wailing Prison, huh?

And yeah, the story is a mess now.

Because ZOS elected to screw up their player experience timeline by letting people skip The Wailing Prison.

Actually the zones themselves are locked in time, so technically, the player goes back in time to Stonefalls (or wherever) to do the tutorial, just like how Grahtwood always happens before Greenshade regardless of the order you do the zones in, but that's getting into story order rather than player-experience-order.

The story order of Molag Bal's Planemeld -> Daedric Wars Arc is pretty clear from the story logic and the chronology of events in the game. Like the Orsinium evidence and Molag BAl's comments I pointed out.

The Player-experience-order is now all messed up thanks to ZOS' unwillingness retain a coherent introduction to the story.

logarifmik

VaranisArano wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

You have my full support in this. Long time ago I made a thread on similar regard as well.

Though, I have a weird feeling, that this new Daedric plot (Mephala, Nocturnal, Clavicus Vile) is a prequel for Molag Bal invasion. If so, then when the plot will be finished, I assume devs will give us an ability to choose starting location, providing two main quests at once: the old one, and the three Daedras plot. However, I don't have a clue, how they'll substantiate Vestige's ability to use wayshrines considering hir soul is intact, before Molag Bal's realm is violently visited. It's only my speculation on how one can make the whole storyline at least tolerable, but I fear that devs can leave it in the state of loosely connected narratives without any significant relation to the player's character.

Time wise, it happens after the Planemeld. How?

So why with the new chapters any new character starts with intact soul, before The Wailing Prison, huh?

And yeah, the story is a mess now.

Because ZOS elected to screw up their player experience timeline by letting people skip The Wailing Prison.

Actually the zones themselves are locked in time, so technically, the player goes back in time to Stonefalls (or wherever) to do the tutorial, just like how Grahtwood always happens before Greenshade regardless of the order you do the zones in, but that's getting into story order rather than player-experience-order.

The story order of Molag Bal's Planemeld -> Daedric Wars Arc is pretty clear from the story logic and the chronology of events in the game. Like the Orsinium evidence and Molag BAl's comments I pointed out.

The Player-experience-order is now all messed up thanks to ZOS' unwillingness retain a coherent introduction to the story.

I agree with you, and I don't like how it was done either. My humble suggestion regarding reverse order of the events (Planemeld -> Daedric Wars) was just an attempt to fix this intricate narrative. No legitimate way to justify last devs decisions regarding plot and lore, I guess.

Soul_Marrow

In before someone with a mod complex closes the thread.
As far as the OP goes, it sounds good. Especially with the possibility of other chapters to keep coming in the future.

I'm honestly more concerned with why we all don't get a SEPARATE CODE to unlock Morrowind with Summerset instead of the very stingy account unlock they plan on using. If I already purchased it once, and it is being given away for free with the purchase, then I deserve to get a free copy just like someone who NEVER BOUGHT IT TO BEGIN WITH so that the other person who also lives in my home and plays/supports the game can enjoy Morrowind. My money/purchase isn't worth less than someone else's...please fix this. What kind of backwards logic is this? If you buy it, you CAN'T have it for free. If you don't cough up the money to buy it, you CAN have it for free.

Radinyn

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

In before someone with a mod complex closes the thread.
As far as the OP goes, it sounds good. Especially with the possibility of other chapters to keep coming in the future.

I'm honestly more concerned with why we all don't get a SEPARATE CODE to unlock Morrowind with Summerset instead of the very stingy account unlock they plan on using. If I already purchased it once, and it is being given away for free with the purchase, then I deserve to get a free copy just like someone who NEVER BOUGHT IT TO BEGIN WITH so that the other person who also lives in my home and plays/supports the game can enjoy Morrowind. My money/purchase isn't worth less than someone else's...please fix this. What kind of backwards logic is this? If you buy it, you CAN'T have it for free. If you don't cough up the money to buy it, you CAN have it for free.

That's a little bit offtopic.

nooblox85

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Also please don't lock old players out of getting the new skill point again.

yea i'm tired of leveling all again

AlnilamE

OP, I think this is a great idea.

But am going to nitpick your map because you reversed Stros-M'Kai and Bethnik as well as Bleakrock Isle and Bal Foyen.

Kodrac

I don't like starting in Morrowind. Not for the story or the "has a soul/doesn't have a soul" inconsistencies later on. But because of the distances required when travelling and having 0 speed mounts. I enjoy the zone and the quests/story on vet characters with 60 speed mounts but it's an awful experience on a brand new mount. The old zones were small and getting around didn't feel like a chore. And you know Zo$ won't do anything about mount account sharing since they can milk it for cash in the Crown Store. So when I make a new toon I always get off the boat in Seyda Neen and go straight to the boat to take me to the old starter zones. Well, after grabbing that skyshard.

Radinyn

AlnilamE wrote: »

OP, I think this is a great idea.

But am going to nitpick your map because you reversed Stros-M'Kai and Bethnik as well as Bleakrock Isle and Bal Foyen.

1/2 means one half

srfrogg23

It would be nice to at least have some sort of zone quest road map other than the achievements or Cadwell’s. Maybe a way to pick up where left off.

I was working my way through the AD zone stories, and for some reason I abandoned the questline a long time ago. Now I have no idea where I was or which NPC to talk to in order to continue with those quests. Since I’m in the AD, I can’t use Cadwell’s.

Radinyn

Maybe ZOS will hear us this time!

A_Silverius

I agree with this, don't waste the effort you put into the morrowind intro zenimax!

JadedJade

Radinyn wrote: »

First of all, as probably everyone knows after Morrowind we started in other location than before. Here's my suggeston, it's very simple, just let us choose starting location. It shouldn't take too long, just simple UI change in the character creation screen.

And second, with new starting locations player can really be confused, because some parts of the story wouldn't make much sense without those made before. It could be something simple, like one pop-up just informing player how to complete zones to get into plot.
Simple version:

In my opinion those really small changes would affect the game much and help new players with understanding the plot.

Almost a year later, still no option. Is it time for a reminder, ZOS? I don't think we need the map part, you can Google the original order if you have to, but I do think being able to choose starting location would be wonderful. I'm an original beta player and the story makes most sense from a soul shriven point of view for me.

AcadianPaladin

Agree. As an experienced player, I can comfortably manage holding my nose, doing the 'Intro de jour' in whatever new zone ZOS wants to hype, then instantly porting to my house, taking a shower to wash the new zone off, stepping outside, finding the 'hooded figure', going to the Wailing Prison in Cold Harbour. In my head my game begins - as it should - by saying 'Hi, Lyris!'.

If I was a new player, the current starting situation would leave me underwhelmed, unimpressed and confused. Not a good first impression I'd imagine.

An option to start the game in the Wailing Prison seems like an important no brainer for both old and new players.

Siohwenoeht

Right on board with this one. Although I do like having the option now of when to start the main harbourage quests. My last 3-50 toon went through the alliance quests completely then was kidnapped and soul stolen. It actually made a little more sense in my head canon that mannimarco would target my character because she'd already done some things to thwart his plans.

JadedJade

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Right on board with this one. Although I do like having the option now of when to start the main harbourage quests. My last 3-50 toon went through the alliance quests completely then was kidnapped and soul stolen. It actually made a little more sense in my head canon that mannimarco would target my character because she'd already done some things to thwart his plans.

Maybe so on Mannimarco's part, but how do you explain how a hardened battle veteran--who's seen a lot of plotting--is naive enough to go along with some hooded stranger who is in no way suspicious...
Not criticising you, but wow sometimes our characters can be derp.

Nerouyn

essi2 wrote: »

In-game dialogue will most likely be written in such a way that you can do the Chapters in any order, hopefully this will mean that certain NPCs won't even show up if you do it in the 'wrong' order.

Dialogue has been written with variations for players who do things out of order.

Eg. if you start in Summerset - like one of my characters - and do it's main story quest without doing the base game's story quest first, one of the characters from the base game's story shows up (as he does for everyone) to say hi, but makes some little quip about you not having met them yet.

I think Sotha Sil has a similar comment about events being experienced by the player out of order.

There are also less central NPCs with dialogue like this. Eg. Eoki in Sadrith Mora who is supposed to recognise the player if they did the Morrowind tutorial and greet them as someone familiar. But he's presently bugged and treats Summerset starters as familiar.

Nerouyn

JadedJade wrote: »

Maybe so on Mannimarco's part, but how do you explain how a hardened battle veteran--who's seen a lot of plotting--is naive enough to go along with some hooded stranger who is in no way suspicious...
Not criticising you, but wow sometimes our characters can be derp.

Like how any of us could participate in PvP after completing the main story.

Siohwenoeht

JadedJade wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Right on board with this one. Although I do like having the option now of when to start the main harbourage quests. My last 3-50 toon went through the alliance quests completely then was kidnapped and soul stolen. It actually made a little more sense in my head canon that mannimarco would target my character because she'd already done some things to thwart his plans.

Maybe so on Mannimarco's part, but how do you explain how a hardened battle veteran--who's seen a lot of plotting--is naive enough to go along with some hooded stranger who is in no way suspicious...
Not criticising you, but wow sometimes our characters can be derp.

@JadedJade ROFL! I hadn't considered that... Well hero archetypes tend to jump at opportunity when someone says "Nirn is in peril! Step into this dark house so we can save it together!". Hahahahaha!

JadedJade

@Nerouyn Everyone knows all other players are evil and must die or be ruled with an iron fist! Who needs those alliance leaders to be united against a common threat...
@Siohwenoeht Right? Haha.