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So Summerset's been out for a while. What do you guys think of the environment?
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psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
Vvardenfell is covered in ash and has an active volcano , summerset is supposed to be a paradise. Which is what it is, it should be this fugly mushroom covered thing like vvardenfell.
Who said Summerset should be volcanic, or be like Vvardenfell? There’s a million miles between a place with a single environment and a place specifically like Vvardenfellpsychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
An island doesn't typically cover more than one climate.
Really?
https://huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/13/big-island-climate-zones_n_6866828.html
I'm putting this in my OP. The notion that an island should only have one environment is laughable. Take a look at Japan as well.
@shadelon @Kodrac Take a look at that article. It's actually got some really beautiful pics too.
Islands in tropical regions generally have one climate. Warm and tropical. Yeesh, ppl will complain about anything.
Wrong. Ever been to Hawaii? Also, have you seen Summerset in this expansion? It’s not even tropical. Like...at all. So your argument doesn’t even work on that level, though you make a good point that it probably should be tropical. Yet another bizarre choice Zenimax made to make this place as generic as possible.Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Is that really your excuse? Because of course Tamriel is not the same as our universe. That doesn’t mean ZOS had to go with a generic pretty forest for their environment. If anything, this means they should have gone with something more outlandish and creative, since as you say TES universe =/= our universe. Or does that excuse only hold when it justifies mundane worldbuilding?psychotrip wrote: »Here's some new gameplay footage. God, it looks even blander in action. Ignore the cool stuff at the beginning. It's "all just a dream" of course:
https://youtu.be/uU-fq3T-eow?t=404
It looks so bland because ZOS favors the bland look everwhere. Seriously, without the Nvidia Freestyle filters I fall asleep on this game cuz its so gray. Use a filter, everything looks better. This is not exclusive to Summerset. Literally EVERY province in cyrodiil is like that.
This is the equivalent of saying “mods will fix it” in the singleplayer games. That isn’t a valid excuse, and color filters will only make the environment more colorful (which admittedly is welcome) not more diverse and interesting
I feel like we’re just accepting mediocrity here. Most MMOs with similar popularity and budgets as ESO go far beyond providing a single environment that’s ultimately indistinguishable from anything we’d find in the base game. ESO is slacking.
I havent seen it yet in person, and its still in pts. I will save my critique till then. I really dont like saying it looks horrible till it does look horrible. And the filters are a must for me, the whole game has this gray filter going on, and its like, just kill me now. lol. Auridon with the freestyle filters looks phenomenal. Without....bleh.
Buddy...they’re not gonna redesign environments or add anything new this late in the game. No point waiting. What we see is what we get.No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
Vvardenfell is covered in ash and has an active volcano , summerset is supposed to be a paradise. Which is what it is, it should be this fugly mushroom covered thing like vvardenfell.
Who said Summerset should be volcanic, or be like Vvardenfell? There’s a million miles between a place with a single environment and a place specifically like Vvardenfellpsychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
An island doesn't typically cover more than one climate.
Really?
https://huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/13/big-island-climate-zones_n_6866828.html
I'm putting this in my OP. The notion that an island should only have one environment is laughable. Take a look at Japan as well.
@shadelon @Kodrac Take a look at that article. It's actually got some really beautiful pics too.
Islands in tropical regions generally have one climate. Warm and tropical. Yeesh, ppl will complain about anything.
Wrong. Ever been to Hawaii? Also, have you seen Summerset in this expansion? It’s not even tropical. Like...at all. So your argument doesn’t even work on that level, though you make a good point that it probably should be tropical. Yet another bizarre choice Zenimax made to make this place as generic as possible.Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Is that really your excuse? Because of course Tamriel is not the same as our universe. That doesn’t mean ZOS had to go with a generic pretty forest for their environment. If anything, this means they should have gone with something more outlandish and creative, since as you say TES universe =/= our universe. Or does that excuse only hold when it justifies mundane worldbuilding?psychotrip wrote: »Here's some new gameplay footage. God, it looks even blander in action. Ignore the cool stuff at the beginning. It's "all just a dream" of course:https://youtu.be/uU-fq3T-eow?t=404
It looks so bland because ZOS favors the bland look everwhere. Seriously, without the Nvidia Freestyle filters I fall asleep on this game cuz its so gray. Use a filter, everything looks better. This is not exclusive to Summerset. Literally EVERY province in cyrodiil is like that.
This is the equivalent of saying “mods will fix it” in the singleplayer games. That isn’t a valid excuse, and color filters will only make the environment more colorful (which admittedly is welcome) not more diverse and interesting
I feel like we’re just accepting mediocrity here. Most MMOs with similar popularity and budgets as ESO go far beyond providing a single environment that’s ultimately indistinguishable from anything we’d find in the base game. ESO is slacking.
I havent seen it yet in person, and its still in pts. I will save my critique till then. I really dont like saying it looks horrible till it does look horrible. And the filters are a must for me, the whole game has this gray filter going on, and its like, just kill me now. lol. Auridon with the freestyle filters looks phenomenal. Without....bleh.
Buddy...they’re not gonna redesign environments or add anything new this late in the game. No point waiting. What we see is what we get.
But im not experiencing it myself. It was the same with morrowind for me. I wasnt impressed by the vids but was pretty impressed with it myself. Which is why, as for environmental things, i wait to judge.0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This seems like a very over priced DLC not an expansion, seems i wasted my money again.2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Fellow Numenera fans! I'd kill for more short stories set in that world.psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
I did too, and I have since I was a kid. Tired of always being disappointed by developers who insist on using the “unreliable narrator” trope to make the world far more boring and generic. Just not having fun with the franchise anymore.
I’m a fan of Warcraft myself. Also been looking into Ashes of Creation for a new MMO. Tyranny seems pretty cool for an old school RPG, and I’ve gotten super into Numenera, which is basically this crazy science-fantasy world that’s the literal opposite of The Elder Scrolls in terms of creative worldbuilding.
Hm. I might look into Ashes.
Numenera is awesome Not tried Tyranny yet. But let's face it, Obsidian are just excellent RPG makers.0 -
psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Fellow Numenera fans! I'd kill for more short stories set in that world.psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
I did too, and I have since I was a kid. Tired of always being disappointed by developers who insist on using the “unreliable narrator” trope to make the world far more boring and generic. Just not having fun with the franchise anymore.
I’m a fan of Warcraft myself. Also been looking into Ashes of Creation for a new MMO. Tyranny seems pretty cool for an old school RPG, and I’ve gotten super into Numenera, which is basically this crazy science-fantasy world that’s the literal opposite of The Elder Scrolls in terms of creative worldbuilding.
Hm. I might look into Ashes.
Numenera is awesome Not tried Tyranny yet. But let's face it, Obsidian are just excellent RPG makers.
Honestly I'd kill for an open world sandbox RPG set in that world, but we're getting off topic now haha.No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
What do words even mean anymore?Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Besides, there are palm trees in Auridon loading screens and concept art.
There are even some great environments in this chapter. They just happen to be not part of Summerset ...psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
Also, I'm hyped for Darksiders 3 later this year.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What do words even mean anymore?Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Besides, there are palm trees in Auridon loading screens and concept art.
There are even some great environments in this chapter. They just happen to be not part of Summerset ...psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
Also, I'm hyped for Darksiders 3 later this year.
Do you have some examples?No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotrip wrote: »
What do words even mean anymore?Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Besides, there are palm trees in Auridon loading screens and concept art.
There are even some great environments in this chapter. They just happen to be not part of Summerset ...psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
Also, I'm hyped for Darksiders 3 later this year.
Do you have some examples?
Well, you've seen Artaeum. Anything else would probably break the NDA.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After getting a chance to run across the whole island, I have to say there is a noticeable lack of environmental detail compared to Vvardenfell.
Vvardenfell had many more assets in the environment (trees, rocks, ruins, etc.). Summerset is almost entirely comprised of empty plains dotted by a few trees. It's much less dense than Vvardenfell was.3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »After getting a chance to run across the whole island, I have to say there is a noticeable lack of environmental detail compared to Vvardenfell.
Vvardenfell had many more assets in the environment (trees, rocks, ruins, etc.). Summerset is almost entirely comprised of empty plains dotted by a few trees. It's much less dense than Vvardenfell was.
I've found one area that I actually quite like, the northernmost shoreline around Veyond Wyte wayshrine. It's denser than the rest of the island, which makes it feel like they started here and then ran out of time. Anything else doesn't make much sense, as they've shown repeatedly that they know how to build better environments.
It's a shame really, as they've expressed they decided to do chapters because they wanted to create larger stuff than bite-sized DLC, but it seems they still can't keep up this schedule. In terms of assets and world building, Summerset trails behind Vvardenfell by quite a bit - 2-3 architectural styles (Altmeri, Aldmeri, Psijic) versus 4-8 (Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni, Vivec, Dwemeri variants, Daedric variants, Dunmer strongholds, Velothi towers), 2-3 crafting motifs (Divine Prosecution, Sapiarch, Psijic) versus 7 (Ashlander, Morag Tong, Buoyant Armiger, Militant Ordinator, Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni), etc.
The cynic in me would say most of their asset creators are probably working on crown store stuff, which the crown crate exclusive Pyandonean style seems to support.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
maltinkilic✭✭✭I don't care much about the pictures here but 6th picture looks like the Library of Celsus.0
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »After getting a chance to run across the whole island, I have to say there is a noticeable lack of environmental detail compared to Vvardenfell.
Vvardenfell had many more assets in the environment (trees, rocks, ruins, etc.). Summerset is almost entirely comprised of empty plains dotted by a few trees. It's much less dense than Vvardenfell was.
I've found one area that I actually quite like, the northernmost shoreline around Veyond Wyte wayshrine. It's denser than the rest of the island, which makes it feel like they started here and then ran out of time. Anything else doesn't make much sense, as they've shown repeatedly that they know how to build better environments.
It's a shame really, as they've expressed they decided to do chapters because they wanted to create larger stuff than bite-sized DLC, but it seems they still can't keep up this schedule. In terms of assets and world building, Summerset trails behind Vvardenfell by quite a bit - 2-3 architectural styles (Altmeri, Aldmeri, Psijic) versus 4-8 (Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni, Vivec, Dwemeri variants, Daedric variants, Dunmer strongholds, Velothi towers), 2-3 crafting motifs (Divine Prosecution, Sapiarch, Psijic) versus 7 (Ashlander, Morag Tong, Buoyant Armiger, Militant Ordinator, Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni), etc.
The cynic in me would say most of their asset creators are probably working on crown store stuff, which the crown crate exclusive Pyandonean style seems to support.
Well maybe you need to buy the "Summerset Assets Package" in the Crown Store for 3000 Crowns to get more environment and stuff?PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -6 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »After getting a chance to run across the whole island, I have to say there is a noticeable lack of environmental detail compared to Vvardenfell.
Vvardenfell had many more assets in the environment (trees, rocks, ruins, etc.). Summerset is almost entirely comprised of empty plains dotted by a few trees. It's much less dense than Vvardenfell was.
I've found one area that I actually quite like, the northernmost shoreline around Veyond Wyte wayshrine. It's denser than the rest of the island, which makes it feel like they started here and then ran out of time. Anything else doesn't make much sense, as they've shown repeatedly that they know how to build better environments.
It's a shame really, as they've expressed they decided to do chapters because they wanted to create larger stuff than bite-sized DLC, but it seems they still can't keep up this schedule. In terms of assets and world building, Summerset trails behind Vvardenfell by quite a bit - 2-3 architectural styles (Altmeri, Aldmeri, Psijic) versus 4-8 (Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni, Vivec, Dwemeri variants, Daedric variants, Dunmer strongholds, Velothi towers), 2-3 crafting motifs (Divine Prosecution, Sapiarch, Psijic) versus 7 (Ashlander, Morag Tong, Buoyant Armiger, Militant Ordinator, Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni), etc.
The cynic in me would say most of their asset creators are probably working on crown store stuff, which the crown crate exclusive Pyandonean style seems to support.
Well maybe you need to buy the "Summerset Assets Package" in the Crown Store for 3000 Crowns to get more environment and stuff?
Sad thing is I might actually buy that.
Just for the heck of it, let's compare Summerset to Hew's Bane, a practical desert.
The difference is not extreme, but over the whole map, it's very noticable. Especially when you play the game yourself.
The river in Hew's Bane has more assets and detail along the bank, plants, grasses, critters (glow worms), and IMO higher quality rock textures and meshes, which also blend better into the water.
A hillside in both Hew's Bane and Summerset. Hew's Bane has more assets placed in a smiliar area - rocks, shrubs, smaller trees. The far-off mountains also seem lower quality in Summerset, as they appear quite "lumpy" like in the base game zones, compared to mountains in later areas like Falkreath Hold or even Wrothgar.
Overall, Summerset seems a little barren and less detailed. And that's comparing a tropical island to a desert, mind you.
The island reminds me most of a greener Craglorn, and that it has a very similar fauna with welwas and fellrunners running about is not the main reason.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What do words even mean anymore?Yeah, I've said so myself.
Granted, I'm hesitant to moan too much about this before we've seen the island on the PTS.
But by this time before Wrothgar's and Vvardenfell's release, we had already seen much more diverse landscapes.
I'm especially surprised that we haven't seen a single palm tree so far on this tropical island.
Oh lord, TES universe =/= our universe. Palm trees do not equal tropical in ESO.
Besides, there are palm trees in Auridon loading screens and concept art.
There are even some great environments in this chapter. They just happen to be not part of Summerset ...psychotrip wrote: »
Summerset is ... What? 4 weeks from PC release? They are not going to drastically overhaul the environment. It is already built, and takes quite a long time to build, I imagine.
Either you buy Summerset and enjoy the new content, or you don't because you feel it is creatively wrong in the direction they took for the island.
You can, of course, continue to voice how displeased you are with the environment, it is your absolute right as a paying customer to do so. But they are not going to change it. It is done, environment wise. They would not even change textures of the mushroom towers on Vvardenfell despite much feedback about them.
Oh I fully understand they won’t change it. I actually quit ESO (and The Elder Scrolls in general) for more interesting fantasy worlds and mostly just come around for potential news for articles or when my inbox starts getting filled with responses to old threads like these. I got a lot of notifications from this thread so I thought I’d chime in.
See, I think Elder Scrolls has one of the richest worlds and most interesting lore of any fantasy worlds out there.
We just likely won't get to see lands portrayed massively originally in ESO. Some of the environments are good though. Clockwork City, for example, was awesome.
I am a big fan of Warcraft lore though. Can you recommend any others to look into?
Also, I'm hyped for Darksiders 3 later this year.
I noticed the palm trees too, however i never saw them, so i never expected them to be in auridon either. : shrug :0 -
psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm Mannimarco-ing this thread rather than making a new one. Now that the chapter's been out for a while, I want to know what you guys think of Summerset's environment.
1. How does it stack up against other post-launch regions?
2. How "dense" does the environment feel? Do you feel there are enough landmarks, settlements, or other unique set-pieces?
3. How diverse does the environment feel? Can you tell one area apart from another? Remember that even many islands have multiple biomes / climates.
4. Does the environment feel distinct from the rest of Tamriel? Do you find the landscape unique?
Let's discuss. I've been bringing back a lot of these old-ish threads to see how opinions have changed, and I'm curious to read your thoughts.
No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.0
