The Outcry Against Premades is Exagerated

DosPanchos

I encounter premades every once in a while on PS4. If I find myself queuing multiple games in a row with them I can just wait several minutes before queuing again so they pass me up. No big deal. Sometimes I even stubbornly stay with them to see if I can get kills.

BGs containing both premades and PUGS is not a perfect situation but the amount of complaining isn't justified.

The_Brosteen

The outcry seems to be coming from mostly pc players. On console you have voice chat, unless you get thst stupid bug (if it still exists).

On pc a pug is truly a pug with 0 communication, making fighting any premade difficult for most people. Hence the pitchforks and torches.

VaranisArano

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

DosPanchos

PS4 players rarely use chat in BGs as well, so very little communication is happening. That's not to say PC isn't worse as you said.

DosPanchos

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

I'm not nullifying anything that's been said on this topic. Instead, I'm voicing my opinion that premades aren't actually the plague of BGs. No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

Sugaroverdose

DosPanchos wrote: »

PS4 players rarely use chat in BGs as well, so very little communication is happening. That's not to say PC isn't worse as you said.

Most of the PS4 players just sends you to hell when you tell them what needs to be done for win via text chat.

Difference is premade are actually loyal to each other people who interested in win, most players in bg does not actually even think about team play or objectives or at least stack to kill those premade healers.

TheNuminous1

DosPanchos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

I find your assumtion that because its not an issue for you that others opinions must not really matter or count to be irritating and obtuse.

VaranisArano

DosPanchos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

I'm not nullifying anything that's been said on this topic. Instead, I'm voicing my opinion that premades aren't actually the plague of BGs. No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

No, but what you are doing is creating another thread when we already have several active ongoing conversations/debates about the topic. You aren't the only person I've pointed that out to - most of whom were arguing the opposite thing you were. By all means, share your experience on PS4. I'm genuinely glad to hear Battlegrounds is working out well for you there. But part of bringing your opinion to the conversation is not spamming the forums with multiple threads on a topic and instead participating in the current and on-going conversations on active threads. That why I keep directing people to the active threads on the subject.

While I did not intend to be patronizing and dismissive in my response, I'm sure you also did not intend to sound patronizing and dismissive to those who are experiencing issues with facing the same pre-mades over and over again, so perhaps we can both chalk this one up to the difficulties of interpreting tone in a textual medium and move on.

DosPanchos

TheNuminous, I'm strongly stating my opinion and it can be debated like anything else. At the end of my post I even stated it's not a perfect situation. Additionally, I'm so down for some changes that allow greater progression and pvp based rewards, but I do not think the degree of the outcry against premades is justified.

Further, I have not seen many (if any) reasonable solutions that don't involve splitting the player base of BGs. I don't believe the base is big enough to be split yet so much of the premade vs PUG discussion is irrelevant at this point in time.

I believe ZOS' first job should be to increase the BG population - an effort they are slowly but surely making. From there they can add game modes/rankings/different ques that separate the player base.

Feel free to debate these points!

jaws343

On Xbox, the premades are more of a problem in the under 50 queue. It is extremely demoralizing to see the same lvl30-40 players teamed up with one another running complimentary builds, farming under 50 players in Bgs. It's fine in Kyne, where the PUG groups of 24 can overwhelm better opponents. But in BGs, these under 50s are often being farmed as they leave their home base because they have no idea what they are doing or they are running level 15 characters with minimum skills and passives unlocked.

I spent a week on a few of my lower level alts leveling them and running BGs for alliance skills a while back and all it was was a week of getting paired with inexperienced pvpers being farmed by premade groups.

Thogard

That’s interesting about the prevalence of premades in the under 50 BGs.

Is there enough of a population in that demographic to support separate queues?

VaranisArano

DosPanchos wrote: »

TheNuminous, I'm strongly stating my opinion and it can be debated like anything else. At the end of my post I even stated it's not a perfect situation. Additionally, I'm so down for some changes that allow greater progression and pvp based rewards, but I do not think the degree of the outcry against premades is justified.

Further, I have not seen many (if any) reasonable solutions that don't involve splitting the player base of BGs. I don't believe the base is big enough to be split yet so much of the premade vs PUG discussion is irrelevant at this point in time.

I believe ZOS' first job should be to increase the BG population - an effort they are slowly but surely making. From there they can add game modes/rankings/different ques that separate the player base.

Feel free to debate these points!

Oh, I definitely agree with you that ZOS needs to make the population of BGs bigger.

Increasing the AP gain was a good choice. It draws a lot of the PVE players who would otherwise have to run around Cyrodiil trying to get their AP for Caltrops/Vigor/Warhorn.

I also think that adding the Daily Random Battleground EXP is a good choice, as is expanding the amount of players who own Morrowind with this free-with-summerset-pre-order deal.

Minno

VaranisArano wrote: »

DosPanchos wrote: »

TheNuminous, I'm strongly stating my opinion and it can be debated like anything else. At the end of my post I even stated it's not a perfect situation. Additionally, I'm so down for some changes that allow greater progression and pvp based rewards, but I do not think the degree of the outcry against premades is justified.

Further, I have not seen many (if any) reasonable solutions that don't involve splitting the player base of BGs. I don't believe the base is big enough to be split yet so much of the premade vs PUG discussion is irrelevant at this point in time.

I believe ZOS' first job should be to increase the BG population - an effort they are slowly but surely making. From there they can add game modes/rankings/different ques that separate the player base.

Feel free to debate these points!

Oh, I definitely agree with you that ZOS needs to make the population of BGs bigger.

Increasing the AP gain was a good choice. It draws a lot of the PVE players who would otherwise have to run around Cyrodiil trying to get their AP for Caltrops/Vigor/Warhorn.

I also think that adding the Daily Random Battleground EXP is a good choice, as is expanding the amount of players who own Morrowind with this free-with-summerset-pre-order deal.

TThe daily rewards will help as well. But that should have been the first then they added with Morrowind and made BGs with one map base game

Thogard

The new bonuses and rewards will further the gap between pugs and premades if everything else stays the same. More rewards will lead to more “casual” players in the queue, which will mean you’re more likely to get a “casual” player on your team when you queue solo.

One of the biggest advantages of being a premade is being able to avoid having a less experienced PvPer on your team.

Kel

I think a good chunk of the problem stems from pugs playing every game type as a deathmatch, instead of focusing on the objective like premades do.
But if the game type is actually deathmatch, you'll see premades sticking together, while pugs think they can 1vX with no CP, so the team spreads out and gets annihilated.
Basically, it's like pugging in anything else. You got one player that wants to solo everything in a group effort and won't listen..you got one player that doesn't know what he's doing, either because he's new or just doesn't care...and you got one or two others that are frustrated because they find themselves with the chaos ball alone while the team is chasing down a non threat for a kill, while a full team is rushing at them.
A pug is a pug. The pugs I've been in that actually use communication can hold thier own against a premade. Sadly, most who queue up solo think it's not needed, and that might hold true in a pug vs. pug environment, but we know that's not the case, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

The_Brosteen

DosPanchos wrote: »

PS4 players rarely use chat in BGs as well, so very little communication is happening. That's not to say PC isn't worse as you said.

now add in console pvp population is generally better as a whole and there's the difference

brandonv516

jabrone77 wrote: »

I think a good chunk of the problem stems from pugs playing every game type as a deathmatch, instead of focusing on the objective like premades do.
But if the game type is actually deathmatch, you'll see premades sticking together, while pugs think they can 1vX with no CP, so the team spreads out and gets annihilated.
Basically, it's like pugging in anything else. You got one player that wants to solo everything in a group effort and won't listen..you got one player that doesn't know what he's doing, either because he's new or just doesn't care...and you got one or two others that are frustrated because they find themselves with the chaos ball alone while the team is chasing down a non threat for a kill, while a full team is rushing at them.
A pug is a pug. The pugs I've been in that actually use communication can hold thier own against a premade. Sadly, most who queue up solo think it's not needed, and that might hold true in a pug vs. pug environment, but we know that's not the case, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

You haven't seen some of the pre-mades on Xbox NA lol. *Hint hint* at a certain Sorc group and a certain Templar group...

There's a handful of groups that play strictly DM in every game mode.

The pre-made I join a lot beats these guys because we focus on objectives while they're too busy stacking kills that don't matter. So while they go 16-0, 22-1, etc., we win with like 2-3, 1-2, etc.

The_Brosteen

jabrone77 wrote: »

I think a good chunk of the problem stems from pugs playing every game type as a deathmatch, instead of focusing on the objective like premades do.

.....but every match IS deathmatch

Kel

The_Brosteen wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I think a good chunk of the problem stems from pugs playing every game type as a deathmatch, instead of focusing on the objective like premades do.

.....but every match IS deathmatch

^^^
See what I mean....lol

Anotherone773

DosPanchos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

I'm not nullifying anything that's been said on this topic. Instead, I'm voicing my opinion that premades aren't actually the plague of BGs. No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

In your opinion. However premades DO have a distinct advantage over pure PUG groups. Communication is one of those. Queuing with people you know with builds you know going in. It is much easier to work as a team in a premade and it DOES offer a distinct advantage over PUGs.

This is similar to saying that a PUG group can do content just as well as a group that raids together regularly. Same thing.

DosPanchos

Anotherone773 wrote: »

DosPanchos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

I'm not nullifying anything that's been said on this topic. Instead, I'm voicing my opinion that premades aren't actually the plague of BGs. No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

In your opinion. However premades DO have a distinct advantage over pure PUG groups. Communication is one of those. Queuing with people you know with builds you know going in. It is much easier to work as a team in a premade and it DOES offer a distinct advantage over PUGs.

This is similar to saying that a PUG group can do content just as well as a group that raids together regularly. Same thing.

I've been steamrolled by coordinated groups enough to know that what you are saying is true; but my point with this post is to say that people generally exaggerate the effect that premades have in the overall BG experience.

xericdx

I was pugging in bg today and at the first loss I had a teammate screaming against premade. Am pretty convinced they were also pugs, simply played better. One of the wins (full pug) we got a 500 20 10 on a chaosball. Am sure the losers were screaming premade...
Truth is I don't think that there are that many super premade out there and that often premade is the excuse...

VaranisArano

A single (or several) premade match where we get curbstomped - not a problem.
A single (or several) good random match where we get curbstomped - not a problem.
Curbstompings are going to happen when you PUG with randoms.

Meeting the same premade group, over and over, getting curbstomped each time with no way to avoid them except to stop queuing or take a break - that starts to get demoralizing.

I don't let myself get farmed at a Cyrodiil resource, where at least I have the option to walk away and do something else fun or call in reinforcements. Why would I want to get farmed by the same group over and over in Battlegrounds?

brandonv516

It gets old when you see the same dedicated group match after match. You know well enough there's other people playing but the game can't help but put you together always.

Anotherone773

DosPanchos wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

DosPanchos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that you aren't finding premades too much of a problem on the PS4. I'm also glad your tactic of waiting a few minutes to shake up the queue works for you.

Just a reminder that this thread is still on-going: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/402497/how-is-this-ok-premades-and-their-effect-on-bgs/p1 are several other current threads on the topic, including this poll: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

So while facing the same premades again and again isn't a problems for you on your platform, that's not to say others don't clearly feel justified in complaining about their experiences on their platforms.

I'm not nullifying anything that's been said on this topic. Instead, I'm voicing my opinion that premades aren't actually the plague of BGs. No need to respond 'cause I find your tone patronizing and irritating.

In your opinion. However premades DO have a distinct advantage over pure PUG groups. Communication is one of those. Queuing with people you know with builds you know going in. It is much easier to work as a team in a premade and it DOES offer a distinct advantage over PUGs.

This is similar to saying that a PUG group can do content just as well as a group that raids together regularly. Same thing.

I've been steamrolled by coordinated groups enough to know that what you are saying is true; but my point with this post is to say that people generally exaggerate the effect that premades have in the overall BG experience.

In some cases yes. There are PUG groups that just effortless fall in sync. I have been in a few. No communication, just the right people in the right group doing the right things. But that is extremely rare.

People do have kneejerk reactions when they get bested easily. It does need some separation. The way BG teams are sorted are terrible anyway. It always seems like there is one team that is specifically gimped compared to one that is overpowered while another is average. Like ive noticed the game will put a lot of people who have little to no experience at BGs on the same team but on an opposite team put players who queue for BGs a dozen times a day.

Sixty5

There is a definite strength to playing with people you have on coms.

Last session I did was with one friend, and most of our games ended up something like this

Simply having someone to watch your back when you go for an objective is a godsend, and moreso you gain a lot of power when you can sync up your ultimates.

On the other hand, at the end of the night we ran into a TDM with two premades, and it went about as well as you can expect.

DosPanchos

xericdx wrote: »

I was pugging in bg today and at the first loss I had a teammate screaming against premade. Am pretty convinced they were also pugs, simply played better. One of the wins (full pug) we got a 500 20 10 on a chaosball. Am sure the losers were screaming premade...
Truth is I don't think that there are that many super premade out there and that often premade is the excuse...

Perfect example of how things can be exagerated.

VaranisArano

DosPanchos wrote: »

xericdx wrote: »

I was pugging in bg today and at the first loss I had a teammate screaming against premade. Am pretty convinced they were also pugs, simply played better. One of the wins (full pug) we got a 500 20 10 on a chaosball. Am sure the losers were screaming premade...
Truth is I don't think that there are that many super premade out there and that often premade is the excuse...

Perfect example of how things can be exagerated.

It'd be a lovely example if most people were merely complaining about being beaten badly.

Most people are complaining, primarily, about being beaten badly by the same team again and again. Unless RNG is truly not in someone's favor, i would say that seeing the same team again and again makes it an entirely reasonable assumption that they are indeed premades.

Of course, those complaints are on the other active threads, which is another reason why not to fragment the conversation: it makes context and grasping the whole of the conversation more difficult.

jaws343

brandonv516 wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I think a good chunk of the problem stems from pugs playing every game type as a deathmatch, instead of focusing on the objective like premades do.
But if the game type is actually deathmatch, you'll see premades sticking together, while pugs think they can 1vX with no CP, so the team spreads out and gets annihilated.
Basically, it's like pugging in anything else. You got one player that wants to solo everything in a group effort and won't listen..you got one player that doesn't know what he's doing, either because he's new or just doesn't care...and you got one or two others that are frustrated because they find themselves with the chaos ball alone while the team is chasing down a non threat for a kill, while a full team is rushing at them.
A pug is a pug. The pugs I've been in that actually use communication can hold thier own against a premade. Sadly, most who queue up solo think it's not needed, and that might hold true in a pug vs. pug environment, but we know that's not the case, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

You haven't seen some of the pre-mades on Xbox NA lol. *Hint hint* at a certain Sorc group and a certain Templar group...

There's a handful of groups that play strictly DM in every game mode.

The pre-made I join a lot beats these guys because we focus on objectives while they're too busy stacking kills that don't matter. So while they go 16-0, 22-1, etc., we win with like 2-3, 1-2, etc.

Exactly this. And if they do go for the objectives, it is only to farm opponents. I have seen pre-made groups camp the weakest enemy's spawn point with the chaos ball and farm them for the duration of the match. Or they only go to flags that are being flipped to kill players. I have been in a number of domination games where my team won with a total of 0 kills because the premade group in with us was just running around farming everyone.

xericdx

Just to clarify, what is a premade?
I as mentioned in another post I have been playing with people I met in bg. Sometimes we play together several games, the same 2, 3 or 4 people. Never used TS or Discord, nor coordinated sets/abilities. Is that a premade? In some of those a newby who asked to join and learn was also included. I d advice you to do something similar, it s nice and you kind of meet people

jaws343

xericdx wrote: »

Just to clarify, what is a premade?
I as mentioned in another post I have been playing with people I met in bg. Sometimes we play together several games, the same 2, 3 or 4 people. Never used TS or Discord, nor coordinated sets/abilities. Is that a premade? In some of those a newby who asked to join and learn was also included. I d advice you to do something similar, it s nice and you kind of meet people

Premade is any group that consists of players who queued for the BG together. So yes, you are running a premade group in your example.