Magicka Templar 1v1 situation: Am i stuck on healing duty?

Bbsample197

as templar im getting a hard time killing someone when im in a 1v1 situation, yes i can survive the battle but thats all i can do, my only attacks that reliably damage the enemy is puncturing sweep and i havent hit any single thing with that skill, whenever im using it my enemy is already at my back and spamming dizzying swing over and over.

LegendaryMage

Killing experienced players as a magicka templar can be clunky and weird, but certainly possible.

Brutusmax1mus

Keep at it first of all. Second, let usknow your gear and skills and we can help.

Solariken

Fighting decent players as a magplar can be a real challenge. IMO you pretty much need to use Dawnbreaker of Smiting in your burst combo or use Skoria and wait for a proc. Otherwise you are going to have a really tough time getting the job done.

Sanctum74

You need to use a combo, sweeps on its own will not kill a good player. I start with purifying light, then reflective light, toppling charge, and then sweeps. If your ult is up then use dawn breaker right after the toppling charge. Skoria also synergies well with purifying light if you can time it to get them to blow up together with your ult. You can also use meteor, but that you want to use before you jump in with toppling charge.

Ashamray

There is a destro \ sword and board + Overwhelming surge + Skoria in 1v1 situation (=dueling) that can be good even against good player but in my opinion magplar is the worst class for killing in pvp, so that's why there are not so many actual DD magplars in Cyro or BG. Clunky class just feels better in support role.
If you really want to kill peeps on your Templar, I advise you to try stamina.

Waffennacht

Add more proc sets

Bbsample197

my gear atm is 5pc fortified brass and 5pc spinner with skoria/zaan as a monster helm and im using dual sword/resto, i picked fortified brass over shackle because of the fact that i can still be tanky and deal damage at the same time

The thing about toppling charge is that theres a situation where i cant click on it making it clunky and unreliable at most part idk why maybe lag or something but it keeps happening to me purfying light and reflective is a must but i need the burst damage from my puncturing or meteor to kill an enemy, the class im having trouble at are sorcs and DKs with unbelievable defenses, if I cant burst down an NB before it cloaks and resets the battle then ill be dead as well

EDIT: I can kill as many ppl as i want by using dark flare + RO combo but i need the back up of a zerg hiding behind them for that to happen LMAO, my current set up revolves around that, so if i ever be on a 1v1 situation the only thing that will keep me alive is to stay alive and spam living *** out of BoL and hope for someone to help me.

Waffennacht

Bbsample197 wrote: »

my gear atm is 5pc fortified brass and 5pc spinner with skoria/zaan as a monster helm and im using dual sword/resto, i picked fortified brass over shackle because of the fact that i can still be tanky and deal damage at the same time

The thing about toppling charge is that theres a situation where i cant click on it making it clunky and unreliable at most part idk why maybe lag or something but it keeps happening to me purfying light and reflective is a must but i need the burst damage from my puncturing or meteor to kill an enemy, the class im having trouble at are sorcs and DKs with unbelievable defenses, if I cant burst down an NB before it cloaks and resets the battle then ill be dead as well

Your sustain I suspect is really low. Meaning builds that require you to have a longer TTK are probably out lasting your damage

I'm going to guess your troubles are not yours alone.

Based on your responses, seems to me you are pretty knowledgeable, gonna think you're seeing why mag Templars are so very rare as compared to NBs etc

Bbsample197

Waffennacht wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

my gear atm is 5pc fortified brass and 5pc spinner with skoria/zaan as a monster helm and im using dual sword/resto, i picked fortified brass over shackle because of the fact that i can still be tanky and deal damage at the same time

The thing about toppling charge is that theres a situation where i cant click on it making it clunky and unreliable at most part idk why maybe lag or something but it keeps happening to me purfying light and reflective is a must but i need the burst damage from my puncturing or meteor to kill an enemy, the class im having trouble at are sorcs and DKs with unbelievable defenses, if I cant burst down an NB before it cloaks and resets the battle then ill be dead as well

Your sustain I suspect is really low. Meaning builds that require you to have a longer TTK are probably out lasting your damage

I'm going to guess your troubles are not yours alone.

Based on your responses, seems to me you are pretty knowledgeable, gonna think you're seeing why mag Templars are so very rare as compared to NBs etc

magplar as DD yes, i really love the playstyle of magplars compared to other class sadly, were to immobile and clunky compared for some classes, and im forced to be a pocket healer so that i can still be reliable on the group

FakeFox

Getting stuck in defence is the worst thing that can happen to a magplar, your strength lies in aggressive play as you can stay alive by dealing damage. In my opinion a magplar is best build for high sustain, because at the point where you can't keep up the pressure you get into big trouble. Agressive play however doesn't mean just spamming Jabs, you want to be doting up you renemy and then keep jabbing to force him into defence, your burst potential isn't great but it's enough to finish off a fight when your enemy runs low.
I would however not recommend solo PvP for a magplar as you often run into issues against certain players. I mostly play in small groups and especially BGs as this is where I can utilize my very high sustained DPS the best while having other people to rely on when burst is needed.

Sanctum74

Kind of sad that the best we can describe Templars play style is clunky, but that's exactly what it is. Go through all that magic throwing our buffs down and then our combo just to have the enemy los or toppling charge bugs out and then you have to start all over again.

You could play the way Zos wants us to play and just sit in our "house" and wait for enemies and then melt them with aoe's and sweeps, but sitting there stuck in place like a bug zapper really isn't much fun Zos!

Seraphayel

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Killing experienced players as a magicka templar can be clunky and weird, but certainly possible.

How are you building pressure? The only way seems to be inflicting Defile and bombarding them with Flare. I mean, what else? PvP is a CC and Melee fest and none of the Templar skills is that hard hitting. And DoTs are not reliable and potent enough to fight Stamina with Momentum+Vigor.

I mean there are so many problems as a Magplar - you're super immobile, you can't get away, you're missing ranged burst and sustain is really bad. You are forced to go into melee range but there your enemy has the advantage because you'll mostly fight Stamina melees. Another issue is the finisher. To get the right target and melt it down is difficult when you're facing several enemies. It's so clunky too use and when you focused the wrong target it's quite complicated to cancel and reapply it to the new one (and most likely you will hit the wrong target again).

It's just super clunky playstyle. It works in PvE because your enemies are not throwing CC after CC or interrupting/LoSing you but in PvP? Man...

Vapirko

Race change and spec as a stamplar?

Baconlad

Ight man. So you are talking about 1v1 since it was in the title I assume.

Magplar can be very tough...You seem to have a very good setup. I will say that your setup is probably better suited to a more experienced player. You have to be carefull building so much damage on a magplar, as if you don't have the experience to recover from a failed combo it can be the end of you.

-Spinner is a great set, but there are better sets out there for damage. In other words if you're not doing damage, it's a wasted set.
-Skoria is also a great set, but if you're not listening to the proc and fighting around them, you're not using it to its fullest capability.
-fortified brass is also a great set, but...it requires full uptime to make the most out of it. It also doesn't give anything to you in terms of 2,3,4 piece bonuses for damage, sustain.

I would replace fortified brass with desert rose to ensure it's always up, and that you're always getting the magic from it.
I would replace spinner with wizards riposte, you don't need wizards riposte buffs up all the time, and it gives you as much or more mitigation than fortified brass. Also, puncturing sweeps and other magplar damage skills don't scale with any of the spell damage stats very well. Best just to ignore damage stats almost all together IMHO and experience.
I would also possibly replace skoria with pirate Skeleton. Reason being is, the longer you are staying offensive then better you'll be, as an inexperienced player, skellie will allow max time on offense.

The next thing to think about, is weapon choice. Most new magplar believe wrongly that DW is best in slot with resto staff offbar. That was true in 2015...but not in 2018.
From my experience, the best weapon for all around is going to be lightning staff for a few reasons.
-You get light attacks that deal good damage
-You get a way to recover resources that DW doesn't allow you to do. When you get better at managing resources, u can drop desert rose for something else (like mechanical acuity which is stupid strong on magplar)
-You get access to lightning ult and elemental drain
-with elemental drain on ur target, you will actually deal MORE damage than without it on your AOE skills like meteor, sweeps, lightning ulti.
- it allows you to equip a sword and board on offbar.

Sword and board are a million times better than resto for magplar. You NEED PASSIVE MITIGATION! resto does not give you that.

As you get better, you can drop pirate skeleton for skoria. Then drop rose for mechanical acuity (mines in heavy armor for MORE mitigation. And also crit doesn't matter to acuity user XD.)

Other things to improve your build might be skill choice.

I'm willing to bet that purifying light is bis for all magplar. It normally does a really nice amount of healing and damage. You need to drop toppling charge for total dark, you get extra mitigation and a LOT of damage from that skill. Toppling charge is really only for experienced players. Enemies will get to know you after you killing them so many times, they start to run without engaging...alot...charge ensures they can't run unless they are NB. Eclipse is the better CC here especially 1v1. Some duels I won't even be able to use sweeps once. Ur ranged pressure should be awesome. I would also use meteor, not DBoS. Almost double the damage Tooltip.

Lastly, magplar is not easy. Sure Its easy to block cast honor the dead, but if you want to kill anything. You REALLY need to focus target.
Hope this helps

Lexxypwns

Magplar excels at turtling and struggles to deliver big reliable burst and with getting off of defense and onto offense.

You’ll need to find a way to address these things to beat people solo. I do this by adding passive defense and tons of sustain, this way I can have larger offensive windows and consistently heal/apply pressure since getting kills isn’t often quick

jerj6925

Bbsample197 wrote: »

as templar im getting a hard time killing someone when im in a 1v1 situation, yes i can survive the battle but thats all i can do, my only attacks that reliably damage the enemy is puncturing sweep and i havent hit any single thing with that skill, whenever im using it my enemy is already at my back and spamming dizzying swing over and over.

I think the best advice I was given was playing a Magica Templar in PVP is like slamming your D**k in a car door over and over and over. At some point you just realize its not worth it and you will pick an easy mode Night blade or Sorc and never look back at your Templar again.

Baz

1st thing, replace Fortified Brass. Imo, it's just a crap copy of the Pariah. If you want to run with high resistance, go for Pariah (you have access to Arcane jewels), instead go for Meta Riposte oooooor Thurvokun (but you will feel the lack of Skoria burst ).
2nd thing, if you want to play with a resto staff, Maelstrom Resto Staf is a AWESOME add tou your build. It's probably mandatory
DW/resto is nice, especially in 1v1 situation. Personnally, I just can't play with s&b, I find it boring. Rapid Regen offers you more time to burst than running a s&b. Trying to stay alive while waiting for spell shiel or bats is just boring af to me (I don't say it's not strong).
If you want to stay with DW/resto set-up, you have to stack a lot of HoT (Lingering+Speed Pots is a really cool addition) Remember : Purif Light is a HoT, Rapid Regen is a HoT, Ritual is a HoT, Sweeps are a HoT, Light's Champion is a freaking strong HoT + major buff. You can also add Vamp Drain as your main CC -undodgeable-, who has a HoT if you don't block cancel it (it has a morph who gives you Minor Expedition, stack it with the pots & you move like a stamsorc )

The thing is with the DW/resto set-up, you just can't takes damages from 4 or 5 person, just bcz you can't outheal it. The only thing you can do, is to drop a resto ult & try to burst 1 guy during it ^^
With the resto ult, during 5sec is like god mode, then you get more 5sec with major force+protection. You can bursting, or recover some ressources via HA
Try to replace Spinner by Lich, or smh who permit you to sustain, bcz you can't block like & s&b build, and your survivability is about spamming & spamming your offensive/defensive abilities.

Defile build are your hard counter, if you see defile pop in your debuffs list, cleanse it asap !


For Magplar DW/resto, there is no Slot2Win builds, I have like 8 or 9 buils in my bag which I pick according to my desires or according to what I need.
Do I need a bit of tankyness ? Wizard Riposte
Do I need a lot of sustain ? Lich
Do I need more selfish tankyness ? Pariah
DO I need more pressure ? Overwhelming
Am I with friends who provides Wizard Riposte ? Transmutation if we need tankyness, Acuity for massacre
etc, etc

To gives you a path of studies, when I start to play my magplar (near the end of Homestead), I was in Rattlecage Transmutation Skoria, then I goes to Rattlecage Riposte Skoria, then Overwhelming Riposte Skoria, then I fall in love with the Lich.
Skoria is a great tool for magplar, especially in solo

Magplar is in a bad spot now, we all know it. It's not like Stamblade where Ambush Incap Exec = win (threw the bait)
More combination of sets you can do, the more versatile you will be, the more success you can have

Check out the @Akinos YT channel. He's a great player & use to play DW/resto sometimes

LegendaryMage

Seraphayel wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Killing experienced players as a magicka templar can be clunky and weird, but certainly possible.

How are you building pressure? The only way seems to be inflicting Defile and bombarding them with Flare. I mean, what else? PvP is a CC and Melee fest and none of the Templar skills is that hard hitting. And DoTs are not reliable and potent enough to fight Stamina with Momentum+Vigor.

I mean there are so many problems as a Magplar - you're super immobile, you can't get away, you're missing ranged burst and sustain is really bad. You are forced to go into melee range but there your enemy has the advantage because you'll mostly fight Stamina melees. Another issue is the finisher. To get the right target and melt it down is difficult when you're facing several enemies. It's so clunky too use and when you focused the wrong target it's quite complicated to cancel and reapply it to the new one (and most likely you will hit the wrong target again).

It's just super clunky playstyle. It works in PvE because your enemies are not throwing CC after CC or interrupting/LoSing you but in PvP? Man...

In duels total dark & dark flare are pretty much mandatory to even get close to killing experienced players. In Cyrodiil I run without it because I need mistform + structured entropy for spell damage. I could use spellpower pots like in duels but then one bonus will be wasted since it comes from a skill (spell crit), and extra healing + stamina sustain as an Argonian with a tri-stat is very important when you have 2-3 people on you that can actually fight back (forget about these youtube videos where 3-4 people are just light attacking someone with no CCs, most of the encounters are absolutely nowhere near that level of play, at least in my experience).

I don't like skoria since tough matchups won't be susceptible to burst, so I prefer shadowrend in a duel for minor maim and overall more damage over time (I play 5 light, 2 heavy so any damage mitigation is welcome) and its magicka support.

My gear is nothing special either, amberplasm + shacklebreaker + monster set, but it's not as much about the gear as it's about landing proper combos to take someone out. It depends on the fight though.

From my experience, I've found a lot of stam opponents to cheese on the heavy attack resource return so duels might not be the best way to judge how a class performs. In open world PVP, I actually really enjoy playing magplar. I think it's a lot more viable than stamplar, having played stamplar for a long time.

Checkmath

You stole my build there mage

CompM4s

Outlast the opponents resources. Pressure with dots and sweeps, time burst with ulti and whatever monster set you are running. Its not a basic combo class and pretty tricky at times. I main a templar and find it tricky but very successful.

LegendaryMage

Checkmath wrote: »

You stole my build there mage

You sound like kevlon now, he swears I stole his stamina DK build over a year ago. It's not like there's much options for BiS, shackle/amber is pretty standard stuff on sorcs, so I just ported it to magplar.

However, I think that my version of 2 heavy and 5 light with Argonian is slightly more effective than 5 heavy 2 light with Breton.

Checkmath

I was joking mage, therefore the smiley
Heavy or light, which is more effective? I think that totally depends with which sets we pair it.

Skander

Eclipse is the only thing that makes you go on the offensive bar

LegendaryMage

Checkmath wrote: »

I was joking mage, therefore the smiley
Heavy or light, which is more effective? I think that totally depends with which sets we pair it.

It depends, but with shackle/amber I'd definitely say 5 light and 2 heavy, since if we go 5 heavy we'll have to put a bit more recovery or cost reduction on maybe the necklace.

So in my opinion instead of amber, lich would work better in heavy, but the damage drop is just too much under those circumstances (-10% spell crit, 7% or so dmg from spell pen, -170 spell dmg from jewelry etc) so it all adds up in the end and at that point it becomes more of a tank/healer setup.

I was thinking about rattlecage as well, with arcane jewelry and weapons, gonna have to hop on PTS and do that combo to see the stats. I suppose very low max magicka but decent spell damage, which is totally fine for templars since there's no shields and damage usually scales better off of spell damage than max magicka.

Checkmath

Then i would rather go julianos or warmaiden. nearly same amount of spelldamage, but also crit and max magicka;)

LegendaryMage

Checkmath wrote: »

Then i would rather go julianos or warmaiden. nearly same amount of spelldamage, but also crit and max magicka;)

How would you sustain maiden/julianos? In heavy julianos I don't see any way to sustain this without sacrificing jewelry enchantments.

CyborgPlatypus

I would use toppling charge then sweeps till below 50% then radiant glory. But that was back during last midyear mayhem and I had to get the drop on them.

CyborgPlatypus

I used rattlecage and lich.

Bbsample197

thanks for all the suggestion guys im planning to change gears and use total dark since after the latest patch i really havent put any thinking on the new rework skill after reading about it, i may have a chance lol, i surely going to ditched out toppling charge for total dark

for gear i dont know if i should still be DW/resto but going DW instead of SnB seems a little bit exciting for me, yes in terms of survability SnB may be a better on but im tired of going all defensive

also i havent really thought about destro/resto yet

Minno

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Then i would rather go julianos or warmaiden. nearly same amount of spelldamage, but also crit and max magicka;)

How would you sustain maiden/julianos? In heavy julianos I don't see any way to sustain this without sacrificing jewelry enchantments.

Atro, one enchant, but ele drain+ channeled focus required. Otherwise it's not enough for heavy armor.

Bbsample197 wrote: »

thanks for all the suggestion guys im planning to change gears and use total dark since after the latest patch i really havent put any thinking on the new rework skill after reading about it, i may have a chance lol, i surely going to ditched out toppling charge for total dark

for gear i dont know if i should still be DW/resto but going DW instead of SnB seems a little bit exciting for me, yes in terms of survability SnB may be a better on but im tired of going all defensive

also i havent really thought about destro/resto yet

You should try ice staff/dual weld. Not only do you get the spell dmg boost with swords, but you'll be able to block using the ice staff like it was SnB. Just remove the passive that drains mag and use amberplasm. This gives you 300 mag per second Regen (600 effective Regen every 2 seconds comparison) and a 5280 spell resist debuff that magplar desperately needs.

Templar it's unique in that their healing can crutch on honor the death on low health casts with purfying light + extended ritual for small hot increases. But you need crazy high defense otherwise you arent going to see the benefit of only casting honor the dead at 50% health and you need a lingering health pot almost always to get an extra hot. This way you avoid resto staff, and stick to offensive/reactive defending.


Here's my build spanking a few potato-skins using the dw/frost setup:
https://youtu.be/MpnKd5QYAsc