Best Faction Leader in your eyes

JKorr

None of them are. They are all bad leaders.

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

Enslaved

VaranisArano wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Check the faction main quests. Who is the one kicking some butts and facing the action?

Yea, Ayrenn

What a lie. All 3 of them fight.

All three of them fight, but Ayrenn does the most fighting (where the Vestige can see her, anyways).

Admittedly, Jorunn is hamstrung by being in only 2 out of the 5 faction zones and spends half of Eastmarch being poisoned, but at least he gets to fight Sinmur the Giant. Problem is, Jorunn would rather talk to his brother when he needs to fight and would rather fight the other alliance leaders when he needs to talk. Ugh!

Emeric is pretty good at leading his army in Bangkorai, up until he loses his head over old flame Septima Tharn and that doesn't turn out so well for him. Kind of embarassing.

Ayrenn is generally willing to pick up her sword to deal with major threats like the Veiled Heritance and the lich in Greenshade, if anything, its her willingness to fight that gets her in trouble during the alternate future of Jone and Jode. She'd rather fight than work out her issues with her own Altmer people and that works out as well as you'd expect, growing into enormous problems in that alternate future.

On the other hand, she/it was not attacked by daedra unlike other 2 leaders.

JKorr

None of them are. They are all bad leaders.

Joruun should have known better and not been quite so merciful to his brother. If he had killed him when he first defeated him, it would have saved a lot of hassles. The Pact seems to just want a hands off as much as possible policy.

I really, really, really can't stand Emeric. The whole reason the Covenant is fighting is because trade is suffering. Forget about the people [and all the deaths/worse than death incidents because the Waffle King won't make a decision], The trade routes are being interrupted, so we need to fight.

Lynx7386

Queen Ayrenn

Razum-dar, the true leader of the dominion.

MacCait

Queen Ayrenn

JKorr wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

lol fun debate while munching lunch

...In your statement you paraphrase and add meaning. Ayrenn isn't saying as you stated "that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than ANY OTHER race"... just the race of Men!

The speech is just using a dramatic exageration to highlight a point, that they have left Man to rule for many ages, but that has only left Tamriel sacked by ages of war that even now threatens Aldmeri lands (the Dominion [territory] of the Aldmeri). So enough is enough. Ayrenn is stating that the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit are intelligent, have reason and patience, which in her opinion from ages of example, the races of Men do not have. She is saying the races of Men lack wisdom and are driven by emotion rather than reason, intellect and patience. She is also stating that she does not hate the races of Men, and the Altmeri, Bosmer, and Khajiit's are not seeking riches, power and plunder (well, at least not all Khajiits... they just want what's in your pocket)...

The text even states that the Altmeri Dominion (territories) do not seek Domination or the acclamation for power for it's own sake... ...but instead wish to rule with that wisdom and patience for ALL races... hmm sounds like equality to me

logarifmik

King Emeric

King Emeric is the most adequate leader by all means. Other so-called "leaders" are too cartoonish and childish for my taste. More than that, Daggerfall Covenant is the most justified alliance, its motivation is quite clear and reasonable. I guess, that Bretons kingdoms are the only place in the whole Nirn, where politics is close to how it should be in the medieval-like universe.

MacCait

Queen Ayrenn

logarifmik wrote: »

King Emeric is the most adequate leader by all means. Other so-called "leaders" are too cartoonish and childish for my taste. More than that, Daggerfall Covenant is the most justified alliance, its motivation is quite clear and reasonable. I guess, that Bretons kingdoms are the only place in the whole Nirn, where politics is close to how it should be in the medieval-like universe.

that's very true, Daggerfall is the most justified alliance... just ask the Orcs ;P

TheTwistedRune

King Emeric

MacCait wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

lol fun debate while munching lunch

...In your statement you paraphrase and add meaning. Ayrenn isn't saying as you stated "that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than ANY OTHER race"... just the race of Men!

The speech is just using a dramatic exageration to highlight a point, that they have left Man to rule for many ages, but that has only left Tamriel sacked by ages of war that even now threatens Aldmeri lands (the Dominion [territory] of the Aldmeri). So enough is enough. Ayrenn is stating that the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit are intelligent, have reason and patience, which in her opinion from ages of example, the races of Men do not have. She is saying the races of Men lack wisdom and are driven by emotion rather than reason, intellect and patience. She is also stating that she does not hate the races of Men, and the Altmeri, Bosmer, and Khajiit's are not seeking riches, power and plunder (well, at least not all Khajiits... they just want what's in your pocket)...

The text even states that the Altmeri Dominion (territories) do not seek Domination or the acclamation for power for it's own sake... ...but instead wish to rule with that wisdom and patience for ALL races... hmm sounds like equality to me

Domination with a cause is still domination. You are right about the Dominion’s wisdom and patience though, just look at the Thalmor........

Storm_knight22

Queen Ayrenn

ayrenn is the easiest on the eyes that's for sure.

VaranisArano

Enslaved wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Check the faction main quests. Who is the one kicking some butts and facing the action?

Yea, Ayrenn

What a lie. All 3 of them fight.

All three of them fight, but Ayrenn does the most fighting (where the Vestige can see her, anyways).

Admittedly, Jorunn is hamstrung by being in only 2 out of the 5 faction zones and spends half of Eastmarch being poisoned, but at least he gets to fight Sinmur the Giant. Problem is, Jorunn would rather talk to his brother when he needs to fight and would rather fight the other alliance leaders when he needs to talk. Ugh!

Emeric is pretty good at leading his army in Bangkorai, up until he loses his head over old flame Septima Tharn and that doesn't turn out so well for him. Kind of embarassing.

Ayrenn is generally willing to pick up her sword to deal with major threats like the Veiled Heritance and the lich in Greenshade, if anything, its her willingness to fight that gets her in trouble during the alternate future of Jone and Jode. She'd rather fight than work out her issues with her own Altmer people and that works out as well as you'd expect, growing into enormous problems in that alternate future.

On the other hand, she/it was not attacked by daedra unlike other 2 leaders.

You mean on Stirk? They all were attacked.

Unless you mean in terms of the faction quests, where only Emeric was targeted by Vaermina. Jorunn has to deal with his treacherous brother and the Worm Cult/Reachmen raising Sinmur. Ayrenn has to deal with homegrown treachery, Maomer invasions, Estre double dealing with Daedric Princes resulting in a redux of the Oblivion Crisis in Firsthold (So Ayrenn does fight minions of Mehrunes Dagon, there), and at least from a distance, Hircine meddling in the succession of Valenwood, though Gwaering and the Silvenar handle most of that.

JobooAGS

King Emeric

MacCait wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

lol fun debate while munching lunch

...In your statement you paraphrase and add meaning. Ayrenn isn't saying as you stated "that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than ANY OTHER race"... just the race of Men!

The speech is just using a dramatic exageration to highlight a point, that they have left Man to rule for many ages, but that has only left Tamriel sacked by ages of war that even now threatens Aldmeri lands (the Dominion [territory] of the Aldmeri). So enough is enough. Ayrenn is stating that the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit are intelligent, have reason and patience, which in her opinion from ages of example, the races of Men do not have. She is saying the races of Men lack wisdom and are driven by emotion rather than reason, intellect and patience. She is also stating that she does not hate the races of Men, and the Altmeri, Bosmer, and Khajiit's are not seeking riches, power and plunder (well, at least not all Khajiits... they just want what's in your pocket)...

The text even states that the Altmeri Dominion (territories) do not seek Domination or the acclamation for power for it's own sake... ...but instead wish to rule with that wisdom and patience for ALL races... hmm sounds like equality to me

Umm... having one race being declared not fit for rule to the point that an infant of another is better beause they are of that race doesnt sound like equality to me... sounds like established 2nd class citzenship to me which is =/= equality.

VaranisArano

JobooAGS wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

lol fun debate while munching lunch

...In your statement you paraphrase and add meaning. Ayrenn isn't saying as you stated "that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than ANY OTHER race"... just the race of Men!

The speech is just using a dramatic exageration to highlight a point, that they have left Man to rule for many ages, but that has only left Tamriel sacked by ages of war that even now threatens Aldmeri lands (the Dominion [territory] of the Aldmeri). So enough is enough. Ayrenn is stating that the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit are intelligent, have reason and patience, which in her opinion from ages of example, the races of Men do not have. She is saying the races of Men lack wisdom and are driven by emotion rather than reason, intellect and patience. She is also stating that she does not hate the races of Men, and the Altmeri, Bosmer, and Khajiit's are not seeking riches, power and plunder (well, at least not all Khajiits... they just want what's in your pocket)...

The text even states that the Altmeri Dominion (territories) do not seek Domination or the acclamation for power for it's own sake... ...but instead wish to rule with that wisdom and patience for ALL races... hmm sounds like equality to me

Umm... having one race being declared not fit for rule to the point that an infant of another is better beause they are of that race doesnt sound like equality to me... sounds like established 2nd class citzenship to me which is =/= equality.

Agreed. That's a massive insult and Ayrenn knows it. She's basically saying, I'd rather trust the throne of Cyrodiil to an Altmer infant because you should trust a Dominion led by a really young queen over the older and more established rulers Emeric (who wants a 2nd Empire with him in charge) and Jorunn/Tribunal who want Cyrodiil for their own reasons.

Basically, Ayrenn's got reasons to argue that innate Altmer wisdom counts over human age and ruling experience, but that doesn't make it any less insulting.

JobooAGS

King Emeric

VaranisArano wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ayrenn, obviously, she fights for equality.

phermitgb wrote: »

they're all *flawed* leaders, to be sure...

that having been said, I like Emeric the most. Sadly, Emeric comes off as mostly kind of an addle-pated older gentlemen - He's a capable but not particularly impressive warrior, he's a competent and rational but not very passionate or dynamic statesman. But, he's surrounded by reliable people, and he's surprisingly, refreshingly, even handed, and calm. He has a little breakdown midway through the DC storyline (minor spoiler) but he comes out mostly okay. And he's surrounded by mostly equally rational and capable people. I like his wife, particularly - she makes an excellent connection to the Redguard dynasty, King Faharajad is a fairly capable king in his own right, and even King Kurog is an Orc "progressive", capable of embracing rationalism over revenge

in fact, that might be my biggest reason for liking the DC storyline. While their leaders are far from perfect, they're all *smart* people - smart enough to realize that rational decisions are AT LEAST AS IMPORTANT as heroic, passionate reactions - something I wish I saw in more modern leaders.

Ayrenn, on the other hand, is your classic fantasy hero leader. She's passionate, dynamic, powerful, and yah, she's kinda hot. Thing is, she's SURROUNDED by (spoiler alert) the worst kinds of people. For all that you want to like her, after she's betrayed by like the 3rd member of her inner circle, you kind of reach this point of "seriously, how did you not see this coming?" - she's also kinda hamstrung by the fact that her progressive and mostly sympathizeable ideals are barely shared by the majority of her people. There's even this sequence where you can overhear a thalmor...I dunno what you'd call them, I guess an immigration/social worker, talking about how other members of the Dominion should be treated to establish proper relationships between the three races...it's really, REALLY overtly racist (from an ESO standpoint), and you wonder how this is allowed to be official policy. Point being, Queen Ayrenn's progressive policies have very little impact on her people.

Honestly, I don't even remember the other two leaders of the Dominion. I'm sure they did...something, but I couldn't tell you what it was. I *did* like the Green Lady and...the guy that is her companion - can't remember his title - but they were more interesting as people and as an evolving leadership position.

Oh, and the two khajit (khajiti?) sisters - that was a fun storyline - I guess I don't remember the Khajit leader because they were in transition - so, you'd have a decent "person" in the Khajit leadership position, but not very experienced.

I'm just beginning the EP storyline with my main (and sorta rushed through most of it with my crafting alt) so my jury's still out on the EP leadership

but yah - for me, Emeric and company all the way. They're my kinda people, for one - and for two, they actually have the all the components necessary and in place to be EFFECTIVE - can't say as much for the other two factions so far...

The question was about the leaders, not the people around them. And its clearl ayrenn then.

Different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

lol fun debate while munching lunch

...In your statement you paraphrase and add meaning. Ayrenn isn't saying as you stated "that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than ANY OTHER race"... just the race of Men!

The speech is just using a dramatic exageration to highlight a point, that they have left Man to rule for many ages, but that has only left Tamriel sacked by ages of war that even now threatens Aldmeri lands (the Dominion [territory] of the Aldmeri). So enough is enough. Ayrenn is stating that the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit are intelligent, have reason and patience, which in her opinion from ages of example, the races of Men do not have. She is saying the races of Men lack wisdom and are driven by emotion rather than reason, intellect and patience. She is also stating that she does not hate the races of Men, and the Altmeri, Bosmer, and Khajiit's are not seeking riches, power and plunder (well, at least not all Khajiits... they just want what's in your pocket)...

The text even states that the Altmeri Dominion (territories) do not seek Domination or the acclamation for power for it's own sake... ...but instead wish to rule with that wisdom and patience for ALL races... hmm sounds like equality to me

Umm... having one race being declared not fit for rule to the point that an infant of another is better beause they are of that race doesnt sound like equality to me... sounds like established 2nd class citzenship to me which is =/= equality.

Agreed. That's a massive insult and Ayrenn knows it. She's basically saying, I'd rather trust the throne of Cyrodiil to an Altmer infant because you should trust a Dominion led by a really young queen over the older and more established rulers Emeric (who wants a 2nd Empire with him in charge) and Jorunn/Tribunal who want Cyrodiil for their own reasons.

Basically, Ayrenn's got reasons to argue that innate Altmer wisdom counts over human age and ruling experience, but that doesn't make it any less insulting.

This makes Ayrenn not better than the other 2 alliance leaders, she wants to conquour cyrodiil for her own "reasons" as well. Difference is that Emeric wants to recreate the 2nd empire because his people's trade routes are diminishing and of course, the events that happened in cyrodiil. Journn and the Tribunal essentially want the rest of tamriel to leave them alone and to end the practice of dangerous magic (especially the magic that lead to the planemeld)

TelvanniWizard

Jorunn Skald-King

Is the only one who actually has higher objectives than power, preffering instead the protection of the folks.

Rohamad_Ali

Razaam Dar

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Thevampirenight

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

You matched the colors to the factions!

Yeah for this poll I desided to match their faction colors. So that was done on purpose

Akrasjel

None of them are. They are all bad leaders.

He who wears the Amulet of Kings.

Aebaradath

None of them are. They are all bad leaders.

Akrasjel wrote: »

He who wears the Amulet of Kings.

Sean Bean?!

VaranisArano

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

He who wears the Amulet of Kings.

Sean Bean?!

We all know what happens to Sean Bean's characters...
https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/Oblivion-The-Curse-of-Sean-Bean-514440827
Comic under spoiler for size

Sharee

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Big Boss the Dark Phoenix is the best faction leader of the glorious Aldmeri Dominion!!!

Big Boss, the terror of wooden doors everywhere (unless there's someone defending. Then the doors are safe.)

BigHornedBeast

King Emeric

Even though I am a big Aldmeri Dominion fan, I do believe King Emeric is the best leader. Jorunn just isn't as passionate it seems as Emeric and Ayrenn and the Ebonheart Pact regions do still have racism towards beasts. Queen Ayrenn isn't the biggest fan of humans and just came in after being away for years. She took the throne away from her brother which wasn't the nicest way of returning to your family after being away. Emeric's alliance seems open and understanding to all of the races (probably due to Bretons being disowned as a race having both elven and human blood unlike Ayrenn and Jorunn) and he has earned his position of power. Honor to Queen Ayrenn, but Emeric is still a better leader in my opinion.

FrancisCrawford

This is a surprisingly interesting subject.

To a first approximation, all the leaders are similarly good:

• They all mean well for their people.
• They all need the Vestige's help to stave off calamity.
• They all are obsessed with this stupid three-way war.

Beyond that:

• Emeric is more experienced than the other two, and willing to learn from his mistakes.
• That doesn't keep him from messing up on the battlefield.
• Emeric can be more fully judged for his subordinates and allies than the others. (Saying whether or not he's right in those judgments would involve spoilers for two of the best quest lines in the game, namely Rivenspire and Wrothgar.)
• Emeric is the only one who seems to have actually wanted the job.
• Ayrenn clearly caused harm in retrospect by goofing off and not building relationships with her future subjects. In her defense, she was young, and the responsibilities are not something she sought.
• Ayrenn and Emeric are charismatic. Jorunn ... isn't.
• They all seem smart as hereditary monarchs go.

Anotherone773

Queen Ayrenn

Of course she is going to get the vote, i mean she is nerd hotness right? that right there gives her a significant advantage over the other two. And Emeric is a whinebag and momma's boy. Jorunn is pretty much an unintelligent barbarian. How could the hot elf chick in armor not win in a video game like this?

Ostacia

Queen Ayrenn

Ayrenn, hands-down. She is right when she says men are a "young" race and are driven by emotion. She doesn't seek domination, but peace, which is not possible with men leading. This has nothing to do with nerd hotness, though I only speak for myself.

ayu_fever

Jorunn Skald-King

#NORDLIFE

bottleofsyrup

Queen Ayrenn

Queen Ayrenn certainly seems the most sincere. My issue with all three, though, is they're too foolish to see Molag Bal's hand in their war with each other and have just made it easier for him to take the Imperial City.

Gythral

None of them are. They are all bad leaders.

Clearly the answer is me
as I solved all 3 factions problems and saved the world, not any of the 3 listed

Vizikul

King Emeric

Akrasjel wrote: »

He who wears the Amulet of Kings.

Abnur Tharn? Mannimarco? Sure, why not... oh... right.

JKorr wrote: »

different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

The latter sentence seems kinda like a contradiction to the former ones. Yea, the ancient elves once were rulers of Tamriel and all folks... and they were horrible. They were racist tyrants and proved to be unsuitable rulers. Their descendants, altmer and dunmer alike are both arrogant and racist as well. They are sort of the Nazis of Tamriel.
Regarding that line that men are driven by emotion, humans were enslaved, tortured, *** and murdered by elves for their amusement. So, it is quite understandable, why humans are hating on elves. Also, the Aldmeri Gominion questline reveals that the elves are also driven by emotion. They hate other races for being inferior and majority of the altmer population seems to hate their current souvereign as well.

Thevampirenight

Vizikul wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

He who wears the Amulet of Kings.

Abnur Tharn? Mannimarco? Sure, why not... oh... right.

JKorr wrote: »

different opinion incoming; no, she really doesn't fight for "equality". Her opinion is that even an altmer baby in charge would be better than any other race. Altmer used to be in charge, altmer should be in charge, the gods said so, so there!

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri

The latter sentence seems kinda like a contradiction to the former ones. Yea, the ancient elves once were rulers of Tamriel and all folks... and they were horrible. They were racist tyrants and proved to be unsuitable rulers. Their descendants, altmer and dunmer alike are both arrogant and racist as well. They are sort of the Nazis of Tamriel.
Regarding that line that men are driven by emotion, humans were enslaved, tortured, *** and murdered by elves for their amusement. So, it is quite understandable, why humans are hating on elves. Also, the Aldmeri Gominion questline reveals that the elves are also driven by emotion. They hate other races for being inferior and majority of the altmer population seems to hate their current souvereign as well.

Every race is capable of doing it. Not just the elves.