Opening 90 crates to try for radiant apex.

Soul_Marrow

Turelus wrote: »

I love that. lol

Anotherone773

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

If you read the entire post, I explained why. And those examples are terrible because they are accidents. I clearly stated its their hard earned money and they are welcome to spend it how they want to. I went on to give examples of why its a ridiculous purchase and how it affects us all. Keep shillin'.

Your trying to use your feelings towards something to invalidate someone elses spending and then saying it affects everyone. I had a $40 steak dinner the other night. You could invalidate that by saying, its a waste of money to spend that much on food when you can go to the store and buy Ramen noodles for $0.20 a pack. Some people have a $600 phone, we can invalidate that by saying that you can buy one for less than $100 and sometimes even get one for free. I have 4 TVs in my house, but i cant watch all of them at the same time, so why do i need four? Same with vehicles i have two, i cant drive both at the same time. I can pretty much invalidate all of the spending you do in life to the point where you might not even need a job. If you would just LISTEN to me!!!!!!

Some people like to collect costumes, skins, mounts, and pets in game. Some like to do the achieves. Some like PVE and some like PVP. Some have to even RP there way through the entire game because its important to them to "be in character."
I personally think it is silly to blow money on vanity items that ultimately have no purpose, but im sure those people that do could find many things i do in life and/or the game they think are silly and pointless.

My only hangup with this radiant mount thing, is people whine when they spent money and didnt win. You didnt pay to win, you paid for a chance to win and lost. Other than that if they want to spend themselves into bankruptcy i really dont care. And even if you could, and you cant, get every gamer in the world to stop spending money on non essential parts of the game, its only going to make your gaming difficult.

Without that revenue stream they have to come up with other ways to make revenue. $40 chapter just became $80 chapter. Subs are mandatory. You will pay for everything in every game. Gaming would actually become more expensive for a majority of people and in many cases people could not afford it.

It sounds like to me, you have "cant afford remorse". You cant afford to buy premium items but you really really want them. And your solution is if people would just stop paying ridiculous( to you) amounts of money for them, ZOS would have to make them cheaper and thus more affordable for everyone, including you.

Just remember those crates are a big reason why, after the initial purchase, you can play as much as you want for free. That purchase price only covers the development costs and bug fixes of the game usually. All the expense to pay CS, mods, IT, bandwidth usage, and further development costs arent covered by that. Thats all covered by our "pointless overpriced" purchases.

See my above post. You are comparing apples to pumpkins. Your 40 dollar steak dinner doesn't set a precedent to the restaurant industry because that market operates much differently. It's also different if said item takes a specific amount of time and resources to create. I wouldn't expect to get a new car for 300 dollars. I expect to pay for the materials used, time spent in development and production, cost of transport, etc then a little more than that in order for a business to do what they are supposed to do: make money. 90 percent of these things are re-skins that an amateur modder could have created in an hour for free. Once again, see my above post if you care to HELP US ALL, yet here you are to argue why we should be expected to pay an absurd amount at a CHANCE at getting an item we don't even own. The gap in logic is larger than the Grand Canyon.

You still dont understand do you? You know when you fill out a customer support ticket, that person that writes you back? Where do you think his salary comes from? The devs that make those skins " in an hour" where do you think their salary comes from? The IT people that constantly monitor the servers, traffic, and back end stuff....where do you think their salaries come from? The business and risk managers...there salary comes from where? The lawyers that make sure the business is operating legally for all countries it is operating in... pro bono? The HR folks that makes sure labor laws are followed, people are getting paid, and deal with their benefits... hobby for them? Janitors, secretaries, other essential personnel for basic business function...nothing better to do for them?

What about that building all of this is contained in? Maintenance, landscaping, property taxes, electricity, water, sewer, trash service, etc? Licenses trademarks patents? Servers, redundancy systems, power generators, computers many of which have to be fairly high end to do graphics design...even copier paper, pencils, and yes...even toilet paper?

Where do you think all the money comes from for these daily costs every day this game is online? You think the chapter that is coming pays for that? Wrong. That chapter pays its development costs, marketing, distribution fees, and all associated nonsense. If they are lucky they will make some profit off it but it will likely take them a year or two before they get there.

All that money for day to day operations of an MMO comes from...wait for it...

wait for it.....

That crate that shady khajiit is sitting on.

YOU don't seem to understand, in fact. Do you think this is the only MMO in history who had to solve those financial woes? Is this the magical unicorn MMO that never existed before and completely flipped the table? Do you really think this costs SSOOO much more to operate than literally ANY other big name MMO in the past, present, or future? Please read a little more on the economics of this industry before you answer this with another ill informed, smarmy retort. THIS IS NOTHING NEW...THE BUSINESS PRACTICE, HOWEVER, IS. Explain that to me logically and with something other than feelings to back it up please.

i have been playing MMOs LITERALLY since they were invented. I have yet to find one that doesnt charge either a sub or have a prem currency/store or have both that is remotely healthy. You have no idea what is required, resource wise to run a business, little lone a company that distributes and operates an MMO. Stick to making better MRIs and defibrillators, that way when you have a heart attack because you learned that all MMOS have some form of ongoing revenue to cover ongoing operating costs, the defib will for sure be able to revive you.

Leave business management to people who manage businesses. If you dont agree with something Zenimax is doing you can show your disapproval two ways: One, dont buy anything. Two, dont play the game. Pretty simple. `

duendology

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Guess what happens when we show a company what we are and aren't willing to pay for or stand for? They change their good/bad habits based on our dollars. Want to know why EA sells you crappy games that are half cocked? Because you let them. You come onto the internet and moan about hoe bad it is, but you still fork over your cash time and time again hoping for different results.

Would any of you go to McDonald's and buy a Big Mac for full price and allow them to hand you a bun then try to sell you the rest of the ingredients separately after your purchase? Would any of you go to McDonald's and buy a Big Mac that comes as a full burger for full price and then allow them to charge you 300 dollars for the condiments, or worse, a CHANCE at maybe having the condiments? Of course not. You would be all hashtags and boycots and collective outrage, but for some reason we turn a blind eye when it comes to gaming. Stop normalizing shady, bad business practices PLEASE because WE ALL suffer from it in the long run. Sure, "it's his/her money" now...then the companies crunch the numbers and realize that people will pay it so that is what they offer us....then it becomes all of our money. If someone wants to spend 300 dollars on a mount, go for it. Buy the mount from the crown store for 20 and then donate the remaining 280 dollars to ZOS out of the goodness of your hearts if you think something is worth more than you paid for it. Would you sell something for 50 bucks if you were guaranteed to get 100 for it easily? Hell no you wouldn't. Stop normalizing predatory business practices of ripping us all off "because we can". Why is this even an argument to be had? How is this even the slightest bit controversial?

I suspect there are some misconceptions about how ZOS and Bethesda operate here.
I do not work in the gaming industry but common sense tells me that:

1. There's no one big team that works on new content in terms of coding and planning, graphic design (in terms of visual and art concept), or marketing and pricing.
2. Different people work on different things. There are "nerds" who work on fixing all bugs and issues. And then, there's a different group of people that designs new dungeons, areas, when it comes to quests and mechanics, so on so forth... and also the group of artists that makes it all flesh and blood, so to speak, aka design the graphics and all the visuals.
3. I suspect there's even one more team that ONLY, probably, crates all these shiny things you see in crates and in crown store.
4. And finally there are "marketing wizawds" who put a price tag on everything, and also come up with new "brilliant ideas" how to make more money... "we know, crates!" And this is the people who you should whine to about atrocious business practises. In fact I am going to call them "marketing wizawds" from now on.

My point is, somewhat I doubt that business practices of those wizawds concerning crown crates impact in any way other areas of the game. As you can see, ZOS releases bits of new content every few months, some "bits" bigger than others. There are events all the time happening in the game which are quite rewarding. New cosmetic items appear in store, sometimes even crowns are or sale, or dlcs and so called chapter. lol I am saying that everything has got its own timing in this game. Crates happen somewhere in between..and it's a bonus in which you may or may not want to participate. The decision is yours.

Is the crown crates a fast cash grab? It is, certainly. Is it shady? Probably. But you seem to think that because of things like crown crates, the rest of the game is neglected because ZOS focuses specifically on making people buy crown crates and "experimenting" with prices. I don't agree with that.
Maybe it' the matter of personality. I buy crates from time to time. I don't buy more than 8 in each season, plus all the free ones from events. I might be lucky or I might not to get something nice, I know what I get myself into though. Sometimes I get something from the crown store. I've got the limit of money I can spend on this entertainment and not a cent more...For instance, I won't buy any of the limited time only houses or some other items (no matter how shiny they are) that, in my opinion, are ridiculously priced.

People, it seems, get hysterical about these stupid mounts in crown crates and get whiney because they can't get them. That's the reason behind all this whining, nothing else. They say they would buy it for crowns/gems directly, even if the said mounts were ridiculously priced. And to me, it makes no difference whether you're ready to pay *** load of crowns for crates for a chance to get an item..or pay less, but still ridiculous, amount of crowns to get the said item directly from the store. Do you see where I am getting with this?

There's not a chance of ZOS changing the idea behind the crown crates..They know it's profitable and they will continue to do it, and you will continue to whine while other players will continue buying the crates or other expensive items. Personally, I don't feel negatively impacted by it. How directly impacted are you? You can't get all the shinies because of rng? Bummer. *shrugs*. ZOS does not give you new content and stuff? I don't agree with that. The prices in crown store are ridiculously high. That's true, I agree.
People at zos putting all their energy into cosmetic aspects of ESO rather than fixing bugs etc.. I'd argue it's not true.
So, what did I miss?

Again, crown crates are just one aspect of this game, you realise. And with so much happening in the game, and crown crates being optional cosmetic containers, I could not care less about someone's a) spending their entire monthly (or yearly lol)wage on crates, b) getting or not getting a desired cosmetic item.
And really, I can't judge a person who spends that much money on crates. If they know what they're doing and accept the odds, and most importantly, can afford it? Why not? You got something shiny? Nice! You did not? OuchI That's the thing with the crown crates.
People are willing to spend crazy amount of money on, you know, that fanciful food (truffles or caviar, for instance) which is like 30 seconds of pleasure..and done. And you don't hear them whining "oh noes, but it's gone, I ate my money [ almost literally]) lol Heck, some people are willing to spend lots of money on the food that, actually, may kill them!!
Some people choose the crown crates: for the thrill and the chance to get nice stuff, I guess. If someone buys too many crates though, knowing what the odds are, and then comes here to whine how unfair the crates are.. I am like ugghh. o_0
I'd argue that the crates are both lol.. expensive and killing(your wallet) aka bearing risk food.lol

Of course, I understand the argument against the crates when someone can't afford those digital goods and have a very hardcore addictive personality and no self-control. But then again, is it my business? Should I feel responsible for them? Should ZOS feel responsible? This game is aimed at adult audience, after all.

Do I like when my characters look nice and ride badass mounts? I do. But, ultimately, I don't play this game to make some fashion statement. Also, I am not the type of person who absolutely must own every single new item in the game. So, maybe I am not the marketing target of the ZOS "mawketing wizawds" after all. lol

One could ask why the performance issues, bugs, or various errors aren't solved on daily basis as they should? Maybe the technical team has priorities.. maybe some of the issues can't be fixed ad hoc, and it does not matter how "easy" to fix they may look like, from a programmer/coder's point of view it may be a different story. That's my only issue with ESO right now.: performance issues, some skills not working as they should, or some classes not performing as they should (werewolf, for instance, then again werewolf is not a class, but you know what I mean)

Ehh, anyway, it ended up being a wall of words, and a bit messy. Sorry about that.
I find the psychological aspect of crown crates or loot crates in gaming fascinating.

Soul_Marrow

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

If you read the entire post, I explained why. And those examples are terrible because they are accidents. I clearly stated its their hard earned money and they are welcome to spend it how they want to. I went on to give examples of why its a ridiculous purchase and how it affects us all. Keep shillin'.

Your trying to use your feelings towards something to invalidate someone elses spending and then saying it affects everyone. I had a $40 steak dinner the other night. You could invalidate that by saying, its a waste of money to spend that much on food when you can go to the store and buy Ramen noodles for $0.20 a pack. Some people have a $600 phone, we can invalidate that by saying that you can buy one for less than $100 and sometimes even get one for free. I have 4 TVs in my house, but i cant watch all of them at the same time, so why do i need four? Same with vehicles i have two, i cant drive both at the same time. I can pretty much invalidate all of the spending you do in life to the point where you might not even need a job. If you would just LISTEN to me!!!!!!

Some people like to collect costumes, skins, mounts, and pets in game. Some like to do the achieves. Some like PVE and some like PVP. Some have to even RP there way through the entire game because its important to them to "be in character."
I personally think it is silly to blow money on vanity items that ultimately have no purpose, but im sure those people that do could find many things i do in life and/or the game they think are silly and pointless.

My only hangup with this radiant mount thing, is people whine when they spent money and didnt win. You didnt pay to win, you paid for a chance to win and lost. Other than that if they want to spend themselves into bankruptcy i really dont care. And even if you could, and you cant, get every gamer in the world to stop spending money on non essential parts of the game, its only going to make your gaming difficult.

Without that revenue stream they have to come up with other ways to make revenue. $40 chapter just became $80 chapter. Subs are mandatory. You will pay for everything in every game. Gaming would actually become more expensive for a majority of people and in many cases people could not afford it.

It sounds like to me, you have "cant afford remorse". You cant afford to buy premium items but you really really want them. And your solution is if people would just stop paying ridiculous( to you) amounts of money for them, ZOS would have to make them cheaper and thus more affordable for everyone, including you.

Just remember those crates are a big reason why, after the initial purchase, you can play as much as you want for free. That purchase price only covers the development costs and bug fixes of the game usually. All the expense to pay CS, mods, IT, bandwidth usage, and further development costs arent covered by that. Thats all covered by our "pointless overpriced" purchases.

See my above post. You are comparing apples to pumpkins. Your 40 dollar steak dinner doesn't set a precedent to the restaurant industry because that market operates much differently. It's also different if said item takes a specific amount of time and resources to create. I wouldn't expect to get a new car for 300 dollars. I expect to pay for the materials used, time spent in development and production, cost of transport, etc then a little more than that in order for a business to do what they are supposed to do: make money. 90 percent of these things are re-skins that an amateur modder could have created in an hour for free. Once again, see my above post if you care to HELP US ALL, yet here you are to argue why we should be expected to pay an absurd amount at a CHANCE at getting an item we don't even own. The gap in logic is larger than the Grand Canyon.

You still dont understand do you? You know when you fill out a customer support ticket, that person that writes you back? Where do you think his salary comes from? The devs that make those skins " in an hour" where do you think their salary comes from? The IT people that constantly monitor the servers, traffic, and back end stuff....where do you think their salaries come from? The business and risk managers...there salary comes from where? The lawyers that make sure the business is operating legally for all countries it is operating in... pro bono? The HR folks that makes sure labor laws are followed, people are getting paid, and deal with their benefits... hobby for them? Janitors, secretaries, other essential personnel for basic business function...nothing better to do for them?

What about that building all of this is contained in? Maintenance, landscaping, property taxes, electricity, water, sewer, trash service, etc? Licenses trademarks patents? Servers, redundancy systems, power generators, computers many of which have to be fairly high end to do graphics design...even copier paper, pencils, and yes...even toilet paper?

Where do you think all the money comes from for these daily costs every day this game is online? You think the chapter that is coming pays for that? Wrong. That chapter pays its development costs, marketing, distribution fees, and all associated nonsense. If they are lucky they will make some profit off it but it will likely take them a year or two before they get there.

All that money for day to day operations of an MMO comes from...wait for it...

wait for it.....

That crate that shady khajiit is sitting on.

YOU don't seem to understand, in fact. Do you think this is the only MMO in history who had to solve those financial woes? Is this the magical unicorn MMO that never existed before and completely flipped the table? Do you really think this costs SSOOO much more to operate than literally ANY other big name MMO in the past, present, or future? Please read a little more on the economics of this industry before you answer this with another ill informed, smarmy retort. THIS IS NOTHING NEW...THE BUSINESS PRACTICE, HOWEVER, IS. Explain that to me logically and with something other than feelings to back it up please.

i have been playing MMOs LITERALLY since they were invented. I have yet to find one that doesnt charge either a sub or have a prem currency/store or have both that is remotely healthy. You have no idea what is required, resource wise to run a business, little lone a company that distributes and operates an MMO. Stick to making better MRIs and defibrillators, that way when you have a heart attack because you learned that all MMOS have some form of ongoing revenue to cover ongoing operating costs, the defib will for sure be able to revive you.

Leave business management to people who manage businesses. If you dont agree with something Zenimax is doing you can show your disapproval two ways: One, dont buy anything. Two, dont play the game. Pretty simple. `

Your insecurities are showing with every petty comment and insult. Don't be threatened because you have a losing argument. You brought this fight to me, not the other way around. I have been playing MMO's since The Realm Online...ever heard of it? I was also part of the GM community back then so I started working with code and games in general very early because the story was told through us programming and acting out in-game events. We didn't have the technology back then to make as robust of an experience because it was very early on. TRO was the 2nd MMO to ever exist in the world and 1st to come stateside so that makes 2 of us who have been following MMO's forever. We can stop waving our pricks around about it now.

I ALSO have been running a business since 2010 so the fact that I'm intelligent and time savvy enough to also have a master's degree in engineering while running an online business is beside the point. I also do a LOT of coding as an engineer and have friends in the gaming industry. I'm well aware of what it takes. You parrot things back to me about subscription models and drop your mic? All you did was repeat me. Gamble crates are relatively new in this industry and they ARE NOT NEEDED TO SURVIVE. They are implemented solely because they CAN be. If you stop buying them, they go away and you get back to a more sensible business model in the gaming industry that we all love so much. Keep up with the conversation if you insist on coming at someone condescendingly.

P.S. What kind of person makes a comment about making medical devices to survive a heart attack, yada, yada, yada. You are welcome in advance for all the work I have done in that industry. You will have health problems of your own someday. Be sure to think about being saved by that one a*shole on the internet. You're welcome.

SecretJoy

Eh...still gonna buy the crates because I like them. I like collecting all that cosmetic stuff, and I understand and support the people who don't want to. Yay for free will!

Soul_Marrow

duendology wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Guess what happens when we show a company what we are and aren't willing to pay for or stand for? They change their good/bad habits based on our dollars. Want to know why EA sells you crappy games that are half cocked? Because you let them. You come onto the internet and moan about hoe bad it is, but you still fork over your cash time and time again hoping for different results.

Would any of you go to McDonald's and buy a Big Mac for full price and allow them to hand you a bun then try to sell you the rest of the ingredients separately after your purchase? Would any of you go to McDonald's and buy a Big Mac that comes as a full burger for full price and then allow them to charge you 300 dollars for the condiments, or worse, a CHANCE at maybe having the condiments? Of course not. You would be all hashtags and boycots and collective outrage, but for some reason we turn a blind eye when it comes to gaming. Stop normalizing shady, bad business practices PLEASE because WE ALL suffer from it in the long run. Sure, "it's his/her money" now...then the companies crunch the numbers and realize that people will pay it so that is what they offer us....then it becomes all of our money. If someone wants to spend 300 dollars on a mount, go for it. Buy the mount from the crown store for 20 and then donate the remaining 280 dollars to ZOS out of the goodness of your hearts if you think something is worth more than you paid for it. Would you sell something for 50 bucks if you were guaranteed to get 100 for it easily? Hell no you wouldn't. Stop normalizing predatory business practices of ripping us all off "because we can". Why is this even an argument to be had? How is this even the slightest bit controversial?

I suspect there are some misconceptions about how ZOS and Bethesda operate here.
I do not work in the gaming industry but common sense tells me that:

1. There's no one big team that works on new content in terms of coding and planning, graphic design (in terms of visual and art concept), or marketing and pricing.
2. Different people work on different things. There are "nerds" who work on fixing all bugs and issues. And then, there's a different group of people that designs new dungeons, areas, when it comes to quests and mechanics, so on so forth... and also the group of artists that makes it all flesh and blood, so to speak, aka design the graphics and all the visuals.
3. I suspect there's even one more team that ONLY, probably, crates all these shiny things you see in crates and in crown store.
4. And finally there are "marketing wizawds" who put a price tag on everything, and also come up with new "brilliant ideas" how to make more money... "we know, crates!" And this is the people who you should whine to about atrocious business practises. In fact I am going to call them "marketing wizawds" from now on.

My point is, somewhat I doubt that business practices of those wizawds concerning crown crates impact in any way other areas of the game. As you can see, ZOS releases bits of new content every few months, some "bits" bigger than others. There are events all the time happening in the game which are quite rewarding. New cosmetic items appear in store, sometimes even crowns are or sale, or dlcs and so called chapter. lol I am saying that everything has got its own timing in this game. Crates happen somewhere in between..and it's a bonus in which you may or may not want to participate. The decision is yours.

Is the crown crates a fast cash grab? It is, certainly. Is it shady? Probably. But you seem to think that because of things like crown crates, the rest of the game is neglected because ZOS focuses specifically on making people buy crown crates and "experimenting" with prices. I don't agree with that.
Maybe it' the matter of personality. I buy crates from time to time. I don't buy more than 8 in each season, plus all the free ones from events. I might be lucky or I might not to get something nice, I know what I get myself into though. Sometimes I get something from the crown store. I've got the limit of money I can spend on this entertainment and not a cent more...For instance, I won't buy any of the limited time only houses or some other items (no matter how shiny they are) that, in my opinion, are ridiculously priced.

People, it seems, get hysterical about these stupid mounts in crown crates and get whiney because they can't get them. That's the reason behind all this whining, nothing else. They say they would buy it for crowns/gems directly, even if the said mounts were ridiculously priced. And to me, it makes no difference whether you're ready to pay *** load of crowns for crates for a chance to get an item..or pay less, but still ridiculous, amount of crowns to get the said item directly from the store. Do you see where I am getting with this?

There's not a chance of ZOS changing the idea behind the crown crates..They know it's profitable and they will continue to do it, and you will continue to whine while other players will continue buying the crates or other expensive items. Personally, I don't feel negatively impacted by it. How directly impacted are you? You can't get all the shinies because of rng? Bummer. *shrugs*. ZOS does not give you new content and stuff? I don't agree with that. The prices in crown store are ridiculously high. That's true, I agree.
People at zos putting all their energy into cosmetic aspects of ESO rather than fixing bugs etc.. I'd argue it's not true.
So, what did I miss?

Again, crown crates are just one aspect of this game, you realise. And with so much happening in the game, and crown crates being optional cosmetic containers, I could not care less about someone's a) spending their entire monthly (or yearly lol)wage on crates, b) getting or not getting a desired cosmetic item.
And really, I can't judge a person who spends that much money on crates. If they know what they're doing and accept the odds, and most importantly, can afford it? Why not? You got something shiny? Nice! You did not? OuchI That's the thing with the crown crates.
People are willing to spend crazy amount of money on, you know, that fanciful food (truffles or caviar, for instance) which is like 30 seconds of pleasure..and done. And you don't hear them whining "oh noes, but it's gone, I ate my money [ almost literally]) lol Heck, some people are willing to spend lots of money on the food that, actually, may kill them!!
Some people choose the crown crates: for the thrill and the chance to get nice stuff, I guess. If someone buys too many crates though, knowing what the odds are, and then comes here to whine how unfair the crates are.. I am like ugghh. o_0
I'd argue that the crates are both lol.. expensive and killing(your wallet) aka bearing risk food.lol

Of course, I understand the argument against the crates when someone can't afford those digital goods and have a very hardcore addictive personality and no self-control. But then again, is it my business? Should I feel responsible for them? Should ZOS feel responsible? This game is aimed at adult audience, after all.

Do I like when my characters look nice and ride badass mounts? I do. But, ultimately, I don't play this game to make some fashion statement. Also, I am not the type of person who absolutely must own every single new item in the game. So, maybe I am not the marketing target of the ZOS "mawketing wizawds" after all. lol

One could ask why the performance issues, bugs, or various errors aren't solved on daily basis as they should? Maybe the technical team has priorities.. maybe some of the issues can't be fixed ad hoc, and it does not matter how "easy" to fix they may look like, from a programmer/coder's point of view it may be a different story. That's my only issue with ESO right now.: performance issues, some skills not working as they should, or some classes not performing as they should (werewolf, for instance, then again werewolf is not a class, but you know what I mean)

Ehh, anyway, it ended up being a wall of words, and a bit messy. Sorry about that.
I find the psychological aspect of crown crates or loot crates in gaming fascinating.

I agree with you about some of what you said, but if you think other things don't suffer as a result of a bigwig making decisions to focus more efforts on easy money and less effort on complicated fixes that are "working well enough" then you are being naive. Please do not take that as an insult because we all have things we get that way about. My main point with all of this is that crates are a relatively new things and have seeped into gaming via the mobile market testing out new ways to grab cash. Then micro-transactions slowly crept onto consoles via the PS3 and Xbox 360. Now these and other shady practices have naturally made their way to the newest generation of consoles and continue to push the line further out until the line pushes back and gives some resistance.

For example: The gaming industry tries to sell games for 10 dollars more on average and notices that their sales stay consistent and do not drop at all. Guess what happens? The price of a new title MSRP officially climbs 10 dollars because it can. Why would they sell it for less unless they are forced to? Then what happens next? Maybe they try to push it up 5 dollars more and they get no resistance. The official MSRP is now 15 dollars more than before. They try once more and their sales drop. Interest in their titles drop and they become less profitable. The MSRP stays 15 dollars above past average, but stops climbing...for now. They will try it again eventually. The price becomes normalized and people forget the time where games used to cost 15 dollars less. Some gamers grow up and stop gaming for various reasons so the majority is now a younger generation that didn't exist in the time during the 15 dollar price hike. The higher MSRP is now the standard. Obviously I'm leaving out inflation, etc because that's an unnecessary variable in this half-explained example. lol

If you don't think that games are suffering as a result of these practices then go back 20 years before internet patches were a method that lazy publishers relied on in order to hit development time cycles. A game used to release and that was the game. It existed on launch day in it's final form...so if it was trash, it was trash and the developer suffered for it. If it was amazing or ahead of it's time, the developer grew from that. Now we rely on releasing half baked games and rushing out patches to fix them just enough in order to save money for the publisher. This is a real thing...I didn't simply dream it up.It has even caused some developers to leave the industry for good...or good developers who don't resort to shady tactics to fail. This is a similar example of a shady practice that did not used to exist, but quickly became the norm.

Soul_Marrow

[/quote]
If you dont agree with something Zenimax is doing you can show your disapproval two ways: One, dont buy anything. Two, dont play the game. Pretty simple. ` [/quote]


You left out a 3rd option: Show others a perspective that they may not have considered before while also not supporting the bad habits you disagree with and only supporting the good habits you support. Unfortunately, this option comes with heat from keyboard warriors who are too stubborn to concede a point.

duendology

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

I agree with you about some of what you said, but if you think other things don't suffer as a result of a bigwig making decisions to focus more efforts on easy money and less effort on complicated fixes that are "working well enough" then you are being naive. Please do not take that as an insult because we all have things we get that way about. My main point with all of this is that crates are a relatively new things and have seeped into gaming via the mobile market testing out new ways to grab cash. Then micro-transactions slowly crept onto consoles via the PS3 and Xbox 360. Now these and other shady practices have naturally made their way to the newest generation of consoles and continue to push the line further out until the line pushes back and gives some resistance.

For example: The gaming industry tries to sell games for 10 dollars more on average and notices that their sales stay consistent and do not drop at all. Guess what happens? The price of a new title MSRP officially climbs 10 dollars because it can. Why would they sell it for less unless they are forced to? Then what happens next? Maybe they try to push it up 5 dollars more and they get no resistance. The official MSRP is now 15 dollars more than before. They try once more and their sales drop. Interest in their titles drop and they become less profitable. The MSRP stays 15 dollars above past average, but stops climbing...for now. They will try it again eventually. The price becomes normalized and people forget the time where games used to cost 15 dollars less. Some gamers grow up and stop gaming for various reasons so the majority is now a younger generation that didn't exist in the time during the 15 dollar price hike. The higher MSRP is now the standard. Obviously I'm leaving out inflation, etc because that's an unnecessary variable in this half-explained example. lol

If you don't think that games are suffering as a result of these practices then go back 20 years before internet patches were a method that lazy publishers relied on in order to hit development time cycles. A game used to release and that was the game. It existed on launch day in it's final form...so if it was trash, it was trash and the developer suffered for it. If it was amazing or ahead of it's time, the developer grew from that. Now we rely on releasing half baked games and rushing out patches to fix them just enough in order to save money for the publisher. This is a real thing...I didn't simply dream it up.It has even caused some developers to leave the industry for good...or good developers who don't resort to shady tactics to fail. This is a similar example of a shady practice that did not used to exist, but quickly became the norm.

I am not naive..I am pragmatic, and realistic.

Heh this is all true. But this whole argument stems from the very idealistic attitude of the player base (we want as it used to be, fair and clean) vs a very pragmatic and business oriented stand of companies, in this specific case - Zos's. You know it, you run a company (as you said in your earlier post) I agree it all sucks, you know. And I wish the gaming industry (and ZOS) did not go down that path. But let's face it, if a company "sniffs" an opportunity to make money, they will do it.
Of course the only way to change these practices is the massive boycott of the said practices. Unfortunately, It seems though that, the majority of the ESO player base is fine with the crates (I am not counting the people who frequent the forums here, I believe we are not the big enough group to stand as the player base representative) and ZOS knows it can profit a lot of it.

ZOS, probably ,knows that they can get away with it as long as the content in crates are cosmetic..so they won't risk losing player base.. like other companies did recently.

vamp_emily

I was bad yesterday.

I was in stormheavon and a group was near me with new mounts and I said. "Ooo look it is the crown crate zombies. How much did those cost, $10,000?"

Soul_Marrow

duendology wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

I agree with you about some of what you said, but if you think other things don't suffer as a result of a bigwig making decisions to focus more efforts on easy money and less effort on complicated fixes that are "working well enough" then you are being naive. Please do not take that as an insult because we all have things we get that way about. My main point with all of this is that crates are a relatively new things and have seeped into gaming via the mobile market testing out new ways to grab cash. Then micro-transactions slowly crept onto consoles via the PS3 and Xbox 360. Now these and other shady practices have naturally made their way to the newest generation of consoles and continue to push the line further out until the line pushes back and gives some resistance.

For example: The gaming industry tries to sell games for 10 dollars more on average and notices that their sales stay consistent and do not drop at all. Guess what happens? The price of a new title MSRP officially climbs 10 dollars because it can. Why would they sell it for less unless they are forced to? Then what happens next? Maybe they try to push it up 5 dollars more and they get no resistance. The official MSRP is now 15 dollars more than before. They try once more and their sales drop. Interest in their titles drop and they become less profitable. The MSRP stays 15 dollars above past average, but stops climbing...for now. They will try it again eventually. The price becomes normalized and people forget the time where games used to cost 15 dollars less. Some gamers grow up and stop gaming for various reasons so the majority is now a younger generation that didn't exist in the time during the 15 dollar price hike. The higher MSRP is now the standard. Obviously I'm leaving out inflation, etc because that's an unnecessary variable in this half-explained example. lol

If you don't think that games are suffering as a result of these practices then go back 20 years before internet patches were a method that lazy publishers relied on in order to hit development time cycles. A game used to release and that was the game. It existed on launch day in it's final form...so if it was trash, it was trash and the developer suffered for it. If it was amazing or ahead of it's time, the developer grew from that. Now we rely on releasing half baked games and rushing out patches to fix them just enough in order to save money for the publisher. This is a real thing...I didn't simply dream it up.It has even caused some developers to leave the industry for good...or good developers who don't resort to shady tactics to fail. This is a similar example of a shady practice that did not used to exist, but quickly became the norm.

I am not naive..I am pragmatic, and realistic.

Heh this is all true. But this whole argument stems from the very idealistic attitude of the player base (we want as it used to be, fair and clean) vs a very pragmatic and business oriented stand of companies, in this specific case - Zos's. You know it, you run a company (as you said in your earlier post) I agree it all sucks, you know. And I wish the gaming industry (and ZOS) did not go down that path. But let's face it, if a company "sniffs" an opportunity to make money, they will do it.
Of course the only way to change these practices is the massive boycott of the said practices. Unfortunately, It seems though that, the majority of the ESO player base is fine with the crates (I am not counting the people who frequent the forums here, I believe we are not the big enough group to stand as the player base representative) and ZOS knows it can profit a lot of it.

ZOS, probably ,knows that they can get away with it as long as the content in crates are cosmetic..so they won't risk losing player base.. like other companies did recently.

Yes, sir! This is exactly the issue. We allowed it to become normalized and didn't push back early enough because it comes in small, subtle steps.. Now we have to push back extra hard because some people go along with it with only the best, innocent intentions (like the OP did) and others go with it to be toxic and cause chaos (like the other guy arguing. not you). We don't even need a massive boycott. I am far from being an activist. I can't stand that stuff to be honest. We just need people to have a basic understanding of what's actually going on, how things were, and how things could easily be. A lot of people honestly don't see it. It's no different than a person who was never taught to eat with health in mind and then you see them gain weight, get diabetes, and suffer from high blood pressure because they only eat hot dogs and fried foods. It seems like common sense to not eat garbage foods, but they were never taught otherwise...it was normalized to them. Now they suffer the consequences. The difference here is that WE ALL suffer the consequences of this particular instance being normalized.

And once again, I want to point out that I wasn't trying to insult you with the naive comment and I'm sorry if I did.

Hokiewa

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

You could have bought a used game system. You could have purchased a handful of new games or 3 handfuls of used games. You could have paid a utility bill. You could have made a car payment. You could have bought 200+ lottery tickets for a chance at REAL money.You could have bought a phone or tablet. You could have fed a LARGE family several times. You could have purchased dozens of blurays. You could have bought several concert tickets.You could have bought groceries. You could have gotten a plane ticket to somewhere or gas for a road trip.I could keep doing this all day, but I'll only list one more. You could have purchased SEVERAL of the mounts you wanted instead of a few you may or may not have wanted if they would sell them in the crown store instead of ripping loyal customers off.

I am NOT at all condescending you. I am NOT being sarcastic. I am simply trying to put this into perspective for those people who may not see this point of view. I also say these things as a person who believes in capitalism wholeheartedly.

I know for a fact I will get a ton of blow back about this post from the "it's his/her money" morons so please save it. I realize it is your money and you are welcome to spend it however you'd like because you earned it, but spending it this way only justifies their bad decision making at ZOS. I have the extra money to justify spending this amount as well, but I just won't do it on principal alone. I could have a billion dollars and still not look to fatten someone else's wallet in this greed-driven way.

These are digital items that exist SOLELY on a server, a server that will eventually shut down for good. You can't even take these things with you to play in an offline single player game after the online experience is over. All we do when we tell these companies that we will pay these prices for such silly things is justify it to other companies to do the same or worse. If you don't agree with me then you clearly weren't around to game before the mobile market was a thing. The only way to get a company to understand this is through increasing or decreasing their profit margins via the means being discussed. A corporation only speaks the language of money. Please stop allowing companies to rob you because, in turn, they slowly start to rob all of us by experimenting with how far they are able to push the line out. Stop.

Sounds like you have a personal problem. Its what, $200ish he spent?
You could waste it on a few nights out.
You could get a fine for accidentally running a stop sign.
You could get hit by a car and spend thousands more.

Their money, who cares?

If you read the entire post, I explained why. And those examples are terrible because they are accidents. I clearly stated its their hard earned money and they are welcome to spend it how they want to. I went on to give examples of why its a ridiculous purchase and how it affects us all. Keep shillin'.

It's a ridiculous purchase to you and only you. The way it affects you, is again just you. You don't speak for the masses anymore then I do. So save the sanctimonious bs for something else.

I was around before the mobile explosion. i know full well how games were marketed before, during, and after (likely moreso then most). Guess what, it is never going to go back to that model. If it does, welcome to scarcity of choice due to the insane cost of initial development.

Hokiewa

/doublepost

Soul_Marrow

Hokiewa wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

You could have bought a used game system. You could have purchased a handful of new games or 3 handfuls of used games. You could have paid a utility bill. You could have made a car payment. You could have bought 200+ lottery tickets for a chance at REAL money.You could have bought a phone or tablet. You could have fed a LARGE family several times. You could have purchased dozens of blurays. You could have bought several concert tickets.You could have bought groceries. You could have gotten a plane ticket to somewhere or gas for a road trip.I could keep doing this all day, but I'll only list one more. You could have purchased SEVERAL of the mounts you wanted instead of a few you may or may not have wanted if they would sell them in the crown store instead of ripping loyal customers off.

I am NOT at all condescending you. I am NOT being sarcastic. I am simply trying to put this into perspective for those people who may not see this point of view. I also say these things as a person who believes in capitalism wholeheartedly.

I know for a fact I will get a ton of blow back about this post from the "it's his/her money" morons so please save it. I realize it is your money and you are welcome to spend it however you'd like because you earned it, but spending it this way only justifies their bad decision making at ZOS. I have the extra money to justify spending this amount as well, but I just won't do it on principal alone. I could have a billion dollars and still not look to fatten someone else's wallet in this greed-driven way.

These are digital items that exist SOLELY on a server, a server that will eventually shut down for good. You can't even take these things with you to play in an offline single player game after the online experience is over. All we do when we tell these companies that we will pay these prices for such silly things is justify it to other companies to do the same or worse. If you don't agree with me then you clearly weren't around to game before the mobile market was a thing. The only way to get a company to understand this is through increasing or decreasing their profit margins via the means being discussed. A corporation only speaks the language of money. Please stop allowing companies to rob you because, in turn, they slowly start to rob all of us by experimenting with how far they are able to push the line out. Stop.

Sounds like you have a personal problem. Its what, $200ish he spent?
You could waste it on a few nights out.
You could get a fine for accidentally running a stop sign.
You could get hit by a car and spend thousands more.

Their money, who cares?

If you read the entire post, I explained why. And those examples are terrible because they are accidents. I clearly stated its their hard earned money and they are welcome to spend it how they want to. I went on to give examples of why its a ridiculous purchase and how it affects us all. Keep shillin'.

It's a ridiculous purchase to you and only you. The way it affects you, is again just you. You don't speak for the masses anymore then I do. So save the sanctimonious bs for something else.

I was around before the mobile explosion. i know full well how games were marketed before, during, and after (likely moreso then most). Guess what, it is never going to go back to that model. If it does, welcome to scarcity of choice due to the insane cost of initial development.

I never stated to speak for the masses. Jesus, some of you people are so jealous of attention and opinions...especially when fueled by facts. Of course you know "moreso than most". That's the fallacy someone uses to attempt to gain superiority of ideas over others. You MUST know more because you SAID so. Please tell us all that story again! I wasn't even speaking to you. PLENTY of people agree with me so if you don't like it, you are free to express your opinion. Welcome to America. This doesn't make your opinion anywhere close to factual, facts do. I stated facts about the industry, it's history, and it's possible future. You're right, it probably will never go back to the way it was, but it isn't due to the cost of development, it's due to grumpy blowhards shilling just to argue. The path to the "good ol days" is through your wallet..so yes it does affect me AND everyone else. It is an irrefutable fact that the only reason these things exist is because impulsive people pay for them. If it didn't tap into someone's impulse and gullibility then they would vanish immediately. This is the nature of impulse purchases...especially overpaid ones If you are too dim to understand this then may I suggest a course in basic business economics?

What we have here is a case of the typical Facebook poster sticking their hostile nose into a conversation and attempting to turn it into an argument. Everyone seems to think they live their own reality show now because you have a "platform to perform on". No one cares, trust me. I stated facts AND an opinion. You interjected with an emotional, impulsive argument. Next time you wake up grumpy, maybe try to walk it off. Have a wonderful day

duendology

vamp_emily wrote: »

I was bad yesterday.

I was in stormheavon and a group was near me with new mounts and I said. "Ooo look it is the crown crate zombies. How much did those cost, $10,000?"

I am not that quick to jump to such conclusions after having gotten a sweetroll from one of the free crates and then buying the frostbane wolf. Apparently, the rng god was asleep or something.
It's possible those people were determined to get a mount no matter what..or they were just lucky without having spent a monthly salary.

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Yes, sir!

I am a she for future reference.

And once again, I want to point out that I wasn't trying to insult you with the naive comment and I'm sorry if I did.

Heh. You haven't insulted me in any way. It takes a lot more than that. So, no worries.

Soul_Marrow

duendology wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I was bad yesterday.

I was in stormheavon and a group was near me with new mounts and I said. "Ooo look it is the crown crate zombies. How much did those cost, $10,000?"

I am not that quick to jump to such conclusions after having gotten a sweetroll from one of the free crates and then buying the frostbane wolf. Apparently, the rng god was asleep or something.
It's possible those people were determined to get a mount no matter what..or they were just lucky without having spent a monthly salary.

Soul_Marrow wrote: »

Yes, sir!

I am a she for future reference.

And once again, I want to point out that I wasn't trying to insult you with the naive comment and I'm sorry if I did.

Heh. You haven't insulted me in any way. It takes a lot more than that. So, no worries.

Aw man! I'm sorry. "Yes Ma'am!" lol :-P

ZOS_KatP

Hi all,

Since this thread has severely derailed, and has become combative and not constructive, we've decided to close it down. Please keep in mind our forum policy about disruptive behavior when posting in the future:

Disruptive Behavior: We do not tolerate abusive language or disruptive behavior on our forums. This goes for abusive and disruptive comments and behavior that are directed at a ZeniMax Online employee and ESO community member, alike. Please remember to be respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, and help us maintain a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all.

And please remember, per our forum rules, that if you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.

Thanks.