Utility DPS, am I missing something?

fierackas

After playing for a few months now I'm wondering if I'm missing something in respect of combat. Despite the 2 bars of abilities, combat in ESO seems a bit limited. To explain where I'm coming from, I used to play a Ranger in Everquest which was pretty much a utility class. I could buff, pull for groups, root park adds, off tank, patch heal, snatch aggro off the healer etc. When creating a class in ESO I plumped for a stamina bow warden as the closest match for this but the combat abilities just don't seem to provide the utility to perform much more than a dummy standing there killing mobs (CP260 Warden in Hundings gear etc). Maybe I'm missing something so am hoping more experienced players can shed some light on things.

GimpyPorcupine

Stam Warden Archer. OK, good choice.

Self buff with Green Lotus (weapon critical, light and heavy attacks heal you or ally while active), Bull Netch (Major Brutality, stam recovery), Ice Fortress (Major Ward and Resolve, -8% damage taken).

Subterranean Assault for good damage and enemy debuff. Cutting Dive is also good damage.

Bombard (Arrow Spray morph) is a decent CC. Draining Shot is a knock-back, disorient, and self heal. Poison Injection for high damage. Volley for PVE, Snipe for PVP.

And you still have 1 slot left, plus both ultimates. Or run the bear, which sometimes pulls aggro.

QuebraRegra

I think EVERQUEST had deeper systems in general (rouges to disarm traps, etc.).

The limitations of 5 skills per bar feels rather... limiting. Even from a console perspective other MMOs using controllers found ways to address this.

For the record I have a bow/bow stam warden healer that does well (not running trials with him) . I think the trick is also to look outside of the WARDEN class skills for other utility (including sets). I can heal, dps, debuff, buff.. and in PUGs I find my self tanking a lot too LOL!

The META in this game is rather rigid.

Horowonnoe

Try this stamina warden build:
http://anthem-guild.com/stamina-warden-build-by-nosferatuzod/

fierackas

Thanks for the advice, I run most of those skills Gimpy, they just all feel a bit meh., and yes I'm getting that impression Quebra. I'll take a look at that Horow thanks.

Kanar

ESO has a terrible class system, and absolutely fails at any type of crowd control class. Basically it only supports damage dealer, tank, healer. In ESO you cannot effectively play a debuffer or crowd control role, it's sad because otherwise the game is good.

Nestor

fierackas wrote: »

pretty much a utility class. I could buff, pull for groups, root park adds, off tank, patch heal, snatch aggro off the healer etc........Maybe I'm missing something so am hoping more experienced players can shed some light on things.

You want to be a Tank in this game, with a Healing Staff on the back bar.

Or perhaps a Sap Tank, although the Min Maxers will tell you it is not the way to go, it does still work

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Nestor wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

pretty much a utility class. I could buff, pull for groups, root park adds, off tank, patch heal, snatch aggro off the healer etc........Maybe I'm missing something so am hoping more experienced players can shed some light on things.

You want to be a Tank in this game, with a Healing Staff on the back bar.

Or perhaps a Sap Tank, although the Min Maxers will tell you it is not the way to go, it does still work

100% agree. While people say it is the fatal flaw of ESO (being stuck with one of the trinity), they fail to understand that ESO has greatly expanded the role of the Tank. Everything OP described is the job of a "Tank" in ESO.

Izaki

Kanar wrote: »

ESO has a terrible class system, and absolutely fails at any type of crowd control class. Basically it only supports damage dealer, tank, healer. In ESO you cannot effectively play a debuffer or crowd control role, it's sad because otherwise the game is good.

Tanks and healers in ESO are more debuffers, buffers and crowd controllers than they are tanks and healers. At least in Endgame PvE content.

raj72616a

there is no utility dps.

tanks and healers are the utility characters.

ccfeeling

Yes , there are good and bad dps at all lol...

I love EQ1

Kanar

Izaki wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

ESO has a terrible class system, and absolutely fails at any type of crowd control class. Basically it only supports damage dealer, tank, healer. In ESO you cannot effectively play a debuffer or crowd control role, it's sad because otherwise the game is good.

Tanks and healers in ESO are more debuffers, buffers and crowd controllers than they are tanks and healers. At least in Endgame PvE content.

Not really. A tanks role is to manage agro, grouping and take the boss hits. Do they debuff? Yes, but what they do resembles nothing like what a dedicated debuffer class would do, it is secondary to their primary role and really just limited to resistance debuffing. You would never bother having more than one tank, two in trials. Yet there would be advantage from having multiple of a true debuff class in the group.

Yes healers are buffers, never seen much CC or debuff from the typical raid healer.

By crowd control I mean a dedicated role that locks down mobs, hence "CC." Roots and pulls are so basic, that's what a tank in this game does, and no CC works on bosses. It's binary when it should be more thoughtfully designed to create a role for CC classes.

If the class system was better designed, then viable group composition could be much more diverse.

FrancisCrawford

For group play:

• There are three primary roles -- damage, heal, tank.
• Dungeon teams are 4-person, so the healer and tank need things to do other than their primary roles.
• The healer generally plays the "battery" role, specifically with the skills Elemental Drain, "Shards" (a templar class skill), or "Orb (an Undaunted skill you get access to typically after you've already run a number of dungeons).
• The tank is the primary debuffer.
• There is little essential CC in this game, other than tank taunts. Until recently, there were strong-seeming mezzes -- called "disorient" -- but those broke on damage in a game where a large fraction of damage is done via AoE DoTs. Whoops. Those have now been removed from the game. It is now impossible to lock down an enemy for more than a few seconds, because the long ccs are gone and "cc immunity" prevents chaining them.
• A large number of utility skills ALSO do damage.
• It is realistic for a healer to do non-trivial damage in harder content than it is realistic for a tank to do so. This is partially because heals scale on the same stats that magicka damage scales on, while most tanks stack health.
• Dedicated archery is weak in this game. Stamina DPS is strongest from melee fighters who back-bar a bow for Endless Hail.