How to rebuild bow skills line, and make BOW able to play
I wrote about new weapoon for stamina dynamic ranger 2 weeks ago:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399203/new-ranged-weapon-for-stamina-build-is-necessary#latest
There were opinions that bow skill line should be rebuild. Due to the fact that bow dynamic ranger is really weak, and if you don't spam snipe (snipe is not dynamic) you can't
do good damage. There is many opinions that bow dmg is sad and that is true, that why almost nobody play dynamic bow like a primary weapon (no snipe)- deal dmg only bow (secondary weapon like 2H/1H and shield for buff, healing, protection).
I'm talking about pvp aspect now. In bow skill line we have few skills for dynamic bower : poison injection, scatter shot, arrow spray.
As I wrote in last post poison injection deals about 2,5k critical dmg on average protected player (with passive buffs 12% + 5x5%) - that is nothing. If you have asylum bow + 50%, it is
about 3,7k critical dmg that is still not enought to kill good pvp player. I don't want even mention how that dmg look like if player have shield and block - 500dmg
Dynamic bow ranger is not able to be good fighter beacause bow skills deal sad - small dmg. Reasons:
1. There is only about 70% chance to hit target by arrow spray bacause that skill is aoe - doesn't have viewfinder
2. Max speed to deal dmg by buffed poison injecton is every 2sec. (bacause arrow spray have to be uses after each single hit)
3. Pasive buff 5x5% is to long for stack and to easy for lost (in pve no problem but in pvp fighting is really dynamic, enemy avoid your dmg and you have to avoid dmg, if you are lucky it is 10sec to stack 5x5% but usually your buff is lost very fast -after 5 sec. if don't deal dmg by light attack- other weapon skills like destro staff/2H don't need stack any dmg and deal 4k+ critical dmg immediately no after 10 sec fight- what is more other weapon skills are able to deal that dmg every 1sec. because don't have to hit enemy by arrow spray (asylum buff).
4. Damge of dynamic bow skills is to small for fight with experienced pvp player. I have spent many hours in pvp areas for trying play with ranger dynamic bow, spent many golds for testing sets and only proc set give you oportunity to kill anybody - but you don't have any chance with experienced pvp player. (There are sorcs which in duel I didn't deal even 1 health dmg beacause armour shield is about 10k+, with sorcerer skill 13k and what is the best armour shield can be stack from different skills)
5. Bow ultimate skill:
a.Toxic Barrage - commplaty useless in pve and more useless in pvp beacause of casting time - in 4 sec you can't do anything, easy to avoid (fast way to kill yourself when fight with dk or enemy with 1h+shield -reflect skill). ZENIMAX try to find experienced player who play with that ultimate.
b.Ballista - much better, good dmg but only for no experienced players - quite easy to avoid. Costs many ulti and can't by used offten.
How ZANIMAX could easy immprove bow skill line and make dynamic bow ranger able to play:
1. Increase dmg. of dynamic bow skills. Poison injection deal on average protected player about 3,7k crit dmg with all pasive buffs and asylum bow. (Max. every 2 sec because you have to hit arrow spray before). Poison injaction should hit that dmg without asylum bow and 50% more with asylum. Insted 5x5% for 5 sec - 3x20% for 7sec (Howk Eye in passive skill line). That give additional 35% than now. And mayby, mayby, mayby it will be enought to make dynamic bow ranger able to play.
2. Give scatter shot aditional effect - reduce target healing by 30%
3. Change ultimate bow morph Toxic Barrage - it is absolutely useless skill. As a pvp player I would like to see some instant 1 strong hit 6-7k crit dmg (with all buffs+ pasive skills) on average proteceted player. Somthing like incapacitation strike but ranged. Ultimate cost should be reduced to 100 in order to make that skill useable in a battlefield.
That skill could have some extra effect - or few of that:
Incerase dmg on targed 20% for 6 sec / decrease target healing by 30% / ignores target's resistance / knock back target 8m / have incresed dmg for loner distanse by up to 25% on 28m / have incresed ranged to 35m / stuned target / can't be reflected / deal oblivion dmg - break armour shield / works as execution ability.
4. Poison injection - execute dmg over time shouldn't be incresed - only "primary hit"
5. Snipe shouldn't get buff from passive stacks Howk Eye - dmg would be to high
In the end I would like to say that I playing few classes - magicka/stamina, melee and ranged. I don't want make bow OP but I would like that ZENIMAX finally could make dynamic bow ranger able to play.
Please about opinion especially people who tryed playing ranged dynamic BOW skills as primary weapon ( killing only bow dynamic skills - no snipe) in pvp.
Edited by SunshinePL on March 20, 2018 11:58AM https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399203/new-ranged-weapon-for-stamina-build-is-necessary#latest
There were opinions that bow skill line should be rebuild. Due to the fact that bow dynamic ranger is really weak, and if you don't spam snipe (snipe is not dynamic) you can't
do good damage. There is many opinions that bow dmg is sad and that is true, that why almost nobody play dynamic bow like a primary weapon (no snipe)- deal dmg only bow (secondary weapon like 2H/1H and shield for buff, healing, protection).
I'm talking about pvp aspect now. In bow skill line we have few skills for dynamic bower : poison injection, scatter shot, arrow spray.
As I wrote in last post poison injection deals about 2,5k critical dmg on average protected player (with passive buffs 12% + 5x5%) - that is nothing. If you have asylum bow + 50%, it is
about 3,7k critical dmg that is still not enought to kill good pvp player. I don't want even mention how that dmg look like if player have shield and block - 500dmg
Dynamic bow ranger is not able to be good fighter beacause bow skills deal sad - small dmg. Reasons:
1. There is only about 70% chance to hit target by arrow spray bacause that skill is aoe - doesn't have viewfinder
2. Max speed to deal dmg by buffed poison injecton is every 2sec. (bacause arrow spray have to be uses after each single hit)
3. Pasive buff 5x5% is to long for stack and to easy for lost (in pve no problem but in pvp fighting is really dynamic, enemy avoid your dmg and you have to avoid dmg, if you are lucky it is 10sec to stack 5x5% but usually your buff is lost very fast -after 5 sec. if don't deal dmg by light attack- other weapon skills like destro staff/2H don't need stack any dmg and deal 4k+ critical dmg immediately no after 10 sec fight- what is more other weapon skills are able to deal that dmg every 1sec. because don't have to hit enemy by arrow spray (asylum buff).
4. Damge of dynamic bow skills is to small for fight with experienced pvp player. I have spent many hours in pvp areas for trying play with ranger dynamic bow, spent many golds for testing sets and only proc set give you oportunity to kill anybody - but you don't have any chance with experienced pvp player. (There are sorcs which in duel I didn't deal even 1 health dmg beacause armour shield is about 10k+, with sorcerer skill 13k and what is the best armour shield can be stack from different skills)
5. Bow ultimate skill:
a.Toxic Barrage - commplaty useless in pve and more useless in pvp beacause of casting time - in 4 sec you can't do anything, easy to avoid (fast way to kill yourself when fight with dk or enemy with 1h+shield -reflect skill). ZENIMAX try to find experienced player who play with that ultimate.
b.Ballista - much better, good dmg but only for no experienced players - quite easy to avoid. Costs many ulti and can't by used offten.
How ZANIMAX could easy immprove bow skill line and make dynamic bow ranger able to play:
1. Increase dmg. of dynamic bow skills. Poison injection deal on average protected player about 3,7k crit dmg with all pasive buffs and asylum bow. (Max. every 2 sec because you have to hit arrow spray before). Poison injaction should hit that dmg without asylum bow and 50% more with asylum. Insted 5x5% for 5 sec - 3x20% for 7sec (Howk Eye in passive skill line). That give additional 35% than now. And mayby, mayby, mayby it will be enought to make dynamic bow ranger able to play.
2. Give scatter shot aditional effect - reduce target healing by 30%
3. Change ultimate bow morph Toxic Barrage - it is absolutely useless skill. As a pvp player I would like to see some instant 1 strong hit 6-7k crit dmg (with all buffs+ pasive skills) on average proteceted player. Somthing like incapacitation strike but ranged. Ultimate cost should be reduced to 100 in order to make that skill useable in a battlefield.
That skill could have some extra effect - or few of that:
Incerase dmg on targed 20% for 6 sec / decrease target healing by 30% / ignores target's resistance / knock back target 8m / have incresed dmg for loner distanse by up to 25% on 28m / have incresed ranged to 35m / stuned target / can't be reflected / deal oblivion dmg - break armour shield / works as execution ability.
4. Poison injection - execute dmg over time shouldn't be incresed - only "primary hit"
5. Snipe shouldn't get buff from passive stacks Howk Eye - dmg would be to high
In the end I would like to say that I playing few classes - magicka/stamina, melee and ranged. I don't want make bow OP but I would like that ZENIMAX finally could make dynamic bow ranger able to play.
Please about opinion especially people who tryed playing ranged dynamic BOW skills as primary weapon ( killing only bow dynamic skills - no snipe) in pvp.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bow Only works fine in a group play setting. If you are in an organized raid, you can be the "sniper" or poison injection execute spammer. and do just fine. Its probably a little harder to pull off effectively in a zerg.
So by all means, buff my execute (It doesn't need a buff in group play, it really, really doesn't).0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The truth is bow won’t get buffs or even a rework as long as Snipe is as it is.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like where the Bow line is in ESO. It's widely used in both PVE and PVP. I think it's one of the better balanced skill lines overall.1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The truth is bow won’t get buffs or even a rework as long as Snipe is as it is.
Agreed, and since patch the increase in bow users and snipe OPness means bow is strong enough. Fix snipe, then worry about bowXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Bow Only works fine in a group play setting. If you are in an organized raid, you can be the "sniper" or poison injection execute spammer. and do just fine. Its probably a little harder to pull off effectively in a zerg.
So by all means, buff my execute (It doesn't need a buff in group play, it really, really doesn't).
Lol what?
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LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Poison spray is useless i agree, but rest are fine. Ranged stam would be interesting, but I doubt it can work without a new weapon.0
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh you mean how it got rid of a add on that obliterated the viablity of ranged classes? Get out of here with that nonsense.
If snipe gets its damae taken away, then flare, WB and frags need to be neutered.
There is really only 2 things that needs to be done for bow.
1 - Acid spray needs to be 28 + meters and be a burst attack
Magnum shot / draining shot need to be 28 meters as well.
Thats pretty much it.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Oh you mean how it got rid of a add on that obliterated the viablity of ranged classes? Get out of here with that nonsense.
If snipe gets its damae taken away, then flare, WB and frags need to be neutered.
There is really only 2 things that needs to be done for bow.
1 - Acid spray needs to be 28 + meters and be a burst attack
Magnum shot / draining shot need to be 28 meters as well.
Thats pretty much it.
Why not 41m? Then you can do your combo with your asylum bow all from stealth and never be in danger. That’s what most bow users want.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Bow Only works fine in a group play setting. If you are in an organized raid, you can be the "sniper" or poison injection execute spammer. and do just fine. Its probably a little harder to pull off effectively in a zerg.
So by all means, buff my execute (It doesn't need a buff in group play, it really, really doesn't).
Lol what?
As near as I can tell, the OP wants a solo bow-only build and is arguing that the bow line needs buffs because the solo bow-only playstyle isn't as effective as they like. In my experience, bow-only works fine in a small or large group, and therefore neither needs nor is likely to be buffed. Particularly Poison Injection, which is already pretty effective as an execute while playing with a group.
Though, I can't say I'd want to play with bow skills only. I use a bow on my Stam Warden, and Cutting Dive is too nice to give up.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Given that the OP is only talking about bow skills in PvP combat, this topic should be in the PvP Combat and Skills forum, not here. It's all too easy for the topic to be derailed in relation to PvE which is clearly not what the OP intended as he restricts his original post more than once to PvP specifically. Moreover, whatever skill balancing changes may (or may not) be required for PvP may well be detrimental in PvE.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hecks yeah, buff bow!!!
snipe should be able to stun and root - for at least 15 seconds...and let's be honest - who can't hit a fat orc sitting on their bear from at least 60 meters...
bow range needs a buff...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
I like where the Bow line is in ESO. It's widely used in both PVE and PVP. I think it's one of the better balanced skill lines overall.
Ok the question for you. Have you ever tryed to play with bow as a primary weapon, and use to kill only dynamic bow skills ( no snipe - everyone know that it's so easy kill player who try spaming snipe in short distance like 1vs1) ? I am talking about dynamic bower not as support for big group. I am talking about ranager bower to fight also in 1vs1 , for example in a duels. ( snipe its not skill for duel). Try to understand my text please.
Edited by SunshinePL on March 20, 2018 12:05PM0