Super Chill TES Discord Server - LGBTQ Friendly!

Jade1986

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

Well, go to some threads about french guilds, russian guilds, etc, and say you arent ok with that, see how you are recieved, its like that with all of these types of threads. You dont get to be aggressive and expect a hug.

Azyle1

Yeah, not sure why that has to be specified, but whatever.

Ackwalan

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

Well, go to some threads about french guilds, russian guilds, etc, and say you arent ok with that, see how you are recieved, its like that with all of these types of threads. You dont get to be aggressive and expect a hug.

language isn't a lifestyle or feeling, it is language. Have a guild that speaks a language is just that and nothing more. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Hippie4927

Somebody just made a post recruiting for a military vet guild. Do some of you have a problem with that, also? I bet they don't get all the negativity that this thread has gotten.

Tavore1138

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

You may not be aware that their are quite a few nations where belonging to one or more of the sub-groups in that grouping is not just grounds for being mocked or treated with hostility but is actually illegal with quite harsh penalties - so it is not wholly unreasonable for people to want to know about a community where they don't have to hide who they are or silently wince at remarks that may not be intended to hurt but that still do.

Games are meant to be for fun, why take issue with people trying to create an environment which is fun for them - personally I am in a guild full of sweary monsters because I find it fun but I'm not going to suggest that everyone should enjoy that atmosphere or try and stop other people from creating one that suits them - I wonder why you would?

TheRiversEdge

@Rohamad_Ali I'm not sure what you mean? It's just Sotha Sil's in-game model pasted over the background of the "You know I had to do it to em" meme. Example:

Riddari

Sometimes I wish they would switch the Q and the T around. It'd b lgbcutie

Waffennacht

I feel like I need to define bigotry

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Please stop being a bigot towards me because I do not agree with your guild

duendology

what the heck have I just read?

good gods, people... live and let live...

The OP called it LGBT Friendly... and not "LGBT Only"... which means that if you're LGBT you can count there're no bigots in the guild/chat and not that there're only LGBT people. It's more of a "signal" for gay people to know there's highly unlikely a chance they stumble on some f****wits...Some people are THAT self-conscious about these matters... just that.
ughh..

Rohamad_Ali

TheRiversEdge wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali I'm not sure what you mean? It's just Sotha Sil's in-game model pasted over the background of the "You know I had to do it to em" meme. Example:

I learned something . It was used on BDO forums and didn't know it was a meme . Still not sure why it's a meme after reading it on know your meme . The history of it is boring to me . Anyway.. Carry on .

Guarlet

Azyle1 wrote: »

Yeah, not sure why that has to be specified, but whatever.

Because many, many people in the world are openly hostile to LGBTQ people and their lifestyles......?

Tavore1138

Waffennacht wrote: »

I feel like I need to define bigotry

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Please stop being a bigot towards me because I do not agree with your guild

The old ‘it’s bigoted not to allow me to be a bigot’ argument? Are you sure you want to be associated with the sort of people who try to hide behind that one?

Ackwalan

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

You may not be aware that their are quite a few nations where belonging to one or more of the sub-groups in that grouping is not just grounds for being mocked or treated with hostility but is actually illegal with quite harsh penalties - so it is not wholly unreasonable for people to want to know about a community where they don't have to hide who they are or silently wince at remarks that may not be intended to hurt but that still do.

Games are meant to be for fun, why take issue with people trying to create an environment which is fun for them - personally I am in a guild full of sweary monsters because I find it fun but I'm not going to suggest that everyone should enjoy that atmosphere or try and stop other people from creating one that suits them - I wonder why you would?

Are you aware that Christian groups are prosecuted, Jewish groups, white groups, black groups etc etc etc, are prosecuted somewhere in the world.

What I'm saying is, in a free society selectively pointing out you are friendly to specific groups, does the opposite of the intended purpose. If you want to have a community that is friendly to all, you will have to occasionally have to put up with jerks. If you want a community that does not put the needs of one group above that of another, you will occasionally hear topics you don't agree with.

Drachenfier

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I feel like I need to define bigotry

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Please stop being a bigot towards me because I do not agree with your guild

The old ‘it’s bigoted not to allow me to be a bigot’ argument? Are you sure you want to be associated with the sort of people who try to hide behind that one?

It is a two way street, you know.

Waffennacht

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I feel like I need to define bigotry

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Please stop being a bigot towards me because I do not agree with your guild

The old ‘it’s bigoted not to allow me to be a bigot’ argument? Are you sure you want to be associated with the sort of people who try to hide behind that one?

"The sort of people"

Lmfao. I mean I could point out the hypocrisy of the language used in this sentence... So I will, I just did lmao.

Me? I'm all about Freedom, free to be anything you wanna be, including someone that's all about hate and facism, because that's what true freedom is.

I don't pretend to think because I'm "enlightened" I get to decide what people can or cannot say. They can say anything they want. If it be pro or con, if I agree or not.

I'm sure as heck not gonna run around throwing out the "bigot" word because people disagree with my opinion (the reason for my first message)

My humble opinion is, to truly accept people, you accept them as they are, be it skin head or black panther.

But that's just me.

And to tie it into ESO and guilds etc, I dislike the permise of excluding anyone for any reason in a video game that isn't directly related to said video game. I.e. when I'm playing, the last thing on my mind is the personal opinions of the 1000s of people I could be paired up with. I care about getting those GD flags under our control!

Anotherone773

Ackwalan wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

You may not be aware that their are quite a few nations where belonging to one or more of the sub-groups in that grouping is not just grounds for being mocked or treated with hostility but is actually illegal with quite harsh penalties - so it is not wholly unreasonable for people to want to know about a community where they don't have to hide who they are or silently wince at remarks that may not be intended to hurt but that still do.

Games are meant to be for fun, why take issue with people trying to create an environment which is fun for them - personally I am in a guild full of sweary monsters because I find it fun but I'm not going to suggest that everyone should enjoy that atmosphere or try and stop other people from creating one that suits them - I wonder why you would?

Are you aware that Christian groups are prosecuted, Jewish groups, white groups, black groups etc etc etc, are prosecuted somewhere in the world.

What I'm saying is, in a free society selectively pointing out you are friendly to specific groups, does the opposite of the intended purpose. If you want to have a community that is friendly to all, you will have to occasionally have to put up with jerks. If you want a community that does not put the needs of one group above that of another, you will occasionally hear topics you don't agree with.

This^ I am in the minority in two sub groups or sub cultures.I dont advertise it because i catch flak about it if i mention it in front of the wrong people. The people who need to know, know and thats it. In fact you would probably be hard pressed to find someone that isnt a minority in something.

But, by all means people should keep referring to me as that straight white guy that couldnt possibly understand because he is in the majority of everything.

Tavore1138

Gakk, I really hadn't planned on an evening of philosophical debate but...

@Drachenfier - To a point... the ultimate danger of allowing the unrestrained bigot to be bigoted is that given the chance they will choose to supress your choices and ultimately your very existence because that is often what real bigotry desires. The genuine bigot is not interested in allowing others free speech just in using decent people's tendency to support free expression as a wedge to allow them to spew their brand of hatred.

@Ackwalan - Yes, I am aware - although some of those are more widely and genuinely persecuted than others.

A free society can have groups that are bound by all sorts of things without causing harm... LGBTQ is just one such, I have a guild based on love of a set of fictional books, someone further up pointed out a guild based around being ex-Military, other options might be around RP or alliance or trading... no-one seems nearly as upset or obsessed with those type of groups. Why does this thread seem to be contentious, the OP made it clear anyone who followed the rules was welcome regardless of gender, orientation or anything else same as any other group or club or community.

Do you disapprove of any kind of themed subgroup of humans sharing an interest or is it just this particular one?

Waffennacht

@Tavore1138 if they are anything like me, it's not the group's existence at all, not the guild etc. But what even brought someone like me to post was the "bigots" etc type comments.

I know for a fact there are issues (already determined by the American supreme Court) that we disagree with. The idea of being labeled a bigot, and furthermore, the idea of being excluded from a group that supposedly is all about acceptance, over this issue rubs me the wrong way.

Like I expect to be excluded from a group that supports exclusion (lol doesn't bother me tho) but to be labeled and excluded by a non-excluding group.... Just makes me want to point it out lol.

Drachenfier

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Gakk, I really hadn't planned on an evening of philosophical debate but...

@Drachenfier - To a point... the ultimate danger of allowing the unrestrained bigot to be bigoted is that given the chance they will choose to supress your choices and ultimately your very existence because that is often what real bigotry desires. The genuine bigot is not interested in allowing others free speech just in using decent people's tendency to support free expression as a wedge to allow them to spew their brand of hatred.

@Ackwalan - Yes, I am aware - although some of those are more widely and genuinely persecuted than others.

A free society can have groups that are bound by all sorts of things without causing harm... LGBTQ is just one such, I have a guild based on love of a set of fictional books, someone further up pointed out a guild based around being ex-Military, other options might be around RP or alliance or trading... no-one seems nearly as upset or obsessed with those type of groups. Why does this thread seem to be contentious, the OP made it clear anyone who followed the rules was welcome regardless of gender, orientation or anything else same as any other group or club or community.

Do you disapprove of any kind of themed subgroup of humans sharing an interest or is it just this particular one?

I don't care what people's preferences are, but as an outside observer, it seems to me the ones throwing the bigot accusation around are almost always the guilty party. And it usually is a certain group of people.

Thogard

Sounds like a great server. Best of luck

Tavore1138

First gotta give plus points to no-one deteriorating into slanging matches yet given how sensitive these topics are...

@Waffennacht - As I sort of implied above the problem with being tolerant of hatred and fascism is that then the fascist haters lock you up and kill you because they have few issuies with doing that and don't care about your right to free expression just their own. I don't think you can freely accept all opinions if those opin ions include that your shuld be killed to maintain someone's view of the world. At some point you have to stop being tolerant and weapon up or roll over and die and that is true even of liberal bleeding heart SJWs.

I don't get to decide what people say either but I am sure as heck going to use my critical judgement to draw conclusions based on what they say.

Logically you must be against any kind of club or association based on shared anything OR being willing to allow them all. Your stated belief in true freedom should allow for the OP to have their channel.

@Drachenfier - Some people throw the bigot accusation at bigots who deserve it, others are too easily offended, others are trying to be victims when in fact they are very much the opposite - which one are you referring to? I would think most would accept that LGBTQ people still have it quite tough even in 'free' societies.

@Anotherone773 - I won't ask which but as a middle-aged straight white male living in the west I have yet to feel terribly systematically oppressed on those issues. Humans being humans people have tried to tease or bully me around other issues over my lifetime but that's just the rought and tumble of life not 'bigotry'.

Waffennacht

@Tavore1138 during Bolshlevikism/Communism infancy in Russia there was a period of time there was a Democracy. The elected officials knew at the up coming election the communist were likely going to win. They also knew they could lock up/silence the Communists to prevent their winning and keep Russia a "democracy"

They released at that moment democracy was already dead. If they went down the path of silencing their opposition they were no longer a democracy, but a dictatorship, and if they allowed the vote to go unhampered, the Communists would win.

They decided the will of the people, even if it meant the death of democracy was more important than their opinions of what Russia should be.

So yes, to be truly free, you must allow those that dare destroy to exist. If the people truly want you gone, then that's the will of the people.

True inclusion means to embrace those that would have you destroyed. These are the teachings of Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi etc (maybe even Vivec said something similar )

Rohamad_Ali

Why is there even a debate in this thread let alone arguing ? Someone set up a discord for everyone . End of story .

Stefirex

Because those who oppose our freedoms want to make it all about how they're not included.

Tavore1138

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Tavore1138 during Bolshlevikism/Communism infancy in Russia there was a period of time there was a Democracy. The elected officials knew at the up coming election the communist were likely going to win. They also knew they could lock up/silence the Communists to prevent their winning and keep Russia a "democracy"

They released at that moment democracy was already dead. If they went down the path of silencing their opposition they were no longer a democracy, but a dictatorship, and if they allowed the vote to go unhampered, the Communists would win.

They decided the will of the people, even if it meant the death of democracy was more important than their opinions of what Russia should be.

So yes, to be truly free, you must allow those that dare destroy to exist. If the people truly want you gone, then that's the will of the people.

True inclusion means to embrace those that would have you destroyed. These are the teachings of Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi etc (maybe even Vivec said something similar )

Hmm, I struggle with that - should one allow something that is clearly horribly wrong because a majority want it? Are that majority well informed or have they been misled? If they had full knowledge would they choose the same thing? At what point does a wider morality kick in?

Many branches of philosophy would accept that one cannot have total invidual freedom and also have a functional society - there are trade offs and depending on your views is where on that axis you think we should be.

But as @Rohamad_Ali rightly says this is probably off topic - we should simply wish the OP well in their freely chosen endeavour and move on

Waffennacht

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Tavore1138 during Bolshlevikism/Communism infancy in Russia there was a period of time there was a Democracy. The elected officials knew at the up coming election the communist were likely going to win. They also knew they could lock up/silence the Communists to prevent their winning and keep Russia a "democracy"

They released at that moment democracy was already dead. If they went down the path of silencing their opposition they were no longer a democracy, but a dictatorship, and if they allowed the vote to go unhampered, the Communists would win.

They decided the will of the people, even if it meant the death of democracy was more important than their opinions of what Russia should be.

So yes, to be truly free, you must allow those that dare destroy to exist. If the people truly want you gone, then that's the will of the people.

True inclusion means to embrace those that would have you destroyed. These are the teachings of Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi etc (maybe even Vivec said something similar )

Hmm, I struggle with that - should one allow something that is clearly horribly wrong because a majority want it? Are that majority well informed or have they been misled? If they had full knowledge would they choose the same thing? At what point does a wider morality kick in?

Many branches of philosophy would accept that one cannot have total invidual freedom and also have a functional society - there are trade offs and depending on your views is where on that axis you think we should be.

But as @Rohamad_Ali rightly says this is probably off topic - we should simply wish the OP well in their freely chosen endeavour and move on

We could probably talk for hours! How I miss philosophical discussions...

But you're right. It's off topic - though I wanna say morality has always been determined by the majority of the people in a society. And squirrels were once household pets in America (see times change lol)

Anyway, I enjoyed it. And I hope everyone has fun....

Except please focus on the objectives in BGs... Please!

ADarklore

Well, to contribute to the 'because the majority agrees therefore the majority should get'... our U.S. constitution was created to protect the minority FROM the majority... because history has shown that many times, the majority was wrong.

Waffennacht

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, to contribute to the 'because the majority agrees therefore the majority should get'... our U.S. constitution was created to protect the minority FROM the majority... because history has shown that many times, the majority was wrong.

I disagree the Constitution was created to form a government so that the majority would not be entirely controlled by a small number of monarchs or officials at the top. Even though they recognized the need of a centralized power similar to a king, especially for war, thus a president.

You may have a point in the bill of rights, but that was because many states didn't like the idea of losing state power to a federal government.

The only issue I can think of that was against the majority was slavery and that was after the creation of the Constitution etc.

But I digress, morality, by definition, is determined by societal norms, which is determined by majority participation. This is just a simple philosophical and historical fact. Just because our culture deems something moral or immoral doesn't mean a different culture, especially at a different time, would be.

And to be quite frankly, the only man of power interested in the nation over self was Washington. Everyone else was out for themselves.

nimander99

You do know that rule 2 doesn't make sense at the end right?

"This isn't the place to vent frustrations or create discourse"

Creating discourse is what I'm doing right now... What every response in this thread has been... Discourse, dialogue.

Nothing wrong with tongue and cheek saying "This isn't a place to vent frustrations or create discord" on a voice hosting service called Discord

Anyways, what can I say, grammar and stuffs mmmkay

Turelus

My advice to OP and others trying to defend this thread would be to stop replying to debates.

Report the trolls and only answer the people who are generally interested in the threads topic, not because you shouldn't stand up for things but because after one moderation if a second comes the thread will just get locked and that benefits no one.