What is rarest tanking class?

aeowulf

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I main tank on a Nightblade. Completed all Craglorn vet Trials, Veteran Dragonstar, All dungeons on Veteran Hard Mode

As for Sorc tank, I do have one. Still working on trials and vDSA for it

I do have a Templar tank as well. He has done Veteran AA trial so far, and 90% of Veteran Hard Mode dungeons


TBH I hate DK tanking... But I did respec my Mag DK dps to a Tank due to off-balance changes nerfing my sweet 30k to a sickening 19k

Mind if u could share your youtubes?
I wanna see NB main tank in Vmol, thank you!

I don't have youtube? I don't stream - But if I ever do in the future it'll be under my forum/@name

Ah hmmm. What's stated as fact without proof, can be dismissed as fact without proof Sorry. I'd love to see you upload a vid of it at some point though, personal pointers I'd actually bring my NB tank out of retirement... Afterburner has a recording feature built in to it if that's any help?

usmcjdking

I have a stam tank of every class - magicka tanking outside of DK is utterly dead ATM. Here's the builds and how I rate them. Race selection was not based on tanking, as each character serves a different purpose than PVE tank. I have no dedicated PVE tank so take it for what it's worth.

Templar
Redguard
5 Black Rose, 3 Agility (Healthy), 2 EG, Maelstrom S&B/Bow.

I typically only pug tank and very rarely tank trials with this build. Sustain is bountiful and the damage output is actually fairly stupid. If I'm not in any threat of being killed by bosses then it is not uncommon for me to hit 17-20k single target depending on the activity level of the fight. With the dungeon finder buff, this build checks in at a whopping 5k weapon damage. I'm actually thinking of swapping out BR for Ravager, which procs off Crescent Sweep for easier mass murder. Nothing like landing a 17k heavy followed by a 14k pierce armor and a 7k bash lol. Probably my favorite tank build as it just outright allows me to bulldoze my way through random vets without much reliance on my group.

Nightblade
Wood Elf
5 Tavas, 2 Bloodspawn, 5 War Machine, Master's Bow

Another fun one. This build can achieve ridiculous uptimes on major slayer in some boss fights and, with practice and knowledge, reasonably high uptime in fights with few adds/low instances of damage to proc BS/Tava's by liberal use of roll dodge. Has some relevant single target killing power as well in the event you need to pull out something clutch.

Sorcerer
Nord
5 Livewire, 2 EG, 5 Torugs

Good debuffer, but not terribly fun. I feel the build is limited and the damage amp given to the team often produces results where in 20% dmg buff via Concussion/Crusher of 10k group DPS is worthless. The issue with sorc tank is that whatever it can do DK does better unless you can make use of class skills such as Bolt Escape. While it's reasonably strong with a premade group, not an overall fan and the character is currently shelved for tanking at this moment. The class lacks serious identity and has no tanking synergy outside of S&B ult dark deal cheese on VAA axes.

DK
2 Bloodspawn, 5 Powerful Assault, 5 Alkosh, Aslyum S&B

My default trials tank. Good build, fun build, but very reliant on Ele drain and their can be some hairy moments in stam intensive fights with less than ideal groups(I.E. VDSA). This build is phenomenal with premade allstars and moderately strong with a good, but subpar group. Plenty of utility and a lot of stuff to do on DK make it fun. In the event that my team needs a legitimate carry, I can just swap in for 2 wep dmg glyphs and Maelstrom bow and pull a respectable 10-13k.

On EU I recently started a character that had completed the following before CP 180 in nothing but random dungeon finder groups. Most of my gear was blue and improperly traited as well.

VROM Challenger.
All but speedrun VCOS.
V Falkreath HM.
V BRF.
Vet WGT HM.
Vet ICP HM.
Vet Scalecaller Peak.

That build is on a Nord stambalde and is a very selfish build but it gets the job done phenomenally -
5 Black Rose, 5 Witchman's, 2 Blood Spawn.

It is of my opinion that Sorc is the absolute weakest of the tanking classes having nothing other than Dark Deal going for it and the extraordinarily situational Bolt Escape.. Nightblade has built in evasion and stam return which make it fairly strong. Templar has boatloads of damage (discounting that blazing shield garbage) and DK is the most varied in terms of overall capability.

aeowulf

@usmcjdking Interesting thoughts, thanks

I think half the issue with NB is they were sap tanks, and this was removed. Other styles of tanking are no where near as much fun, so met with some (ok, a lot of) resistance. Humans tend to dislike change. Then there is the other half the problem, made up with things like making life tougher for the group (lack of chains, root etc) & perception. The group won't care about your resource management as long as you have enough.

usmcjdking wrote: »

Nightblade has built in evasion and stam return which make it fairly strong.

NB tank doesn't really have good stam return. It's probably the fourth worse class in that regard, beaten only by templar. The built in regen does not work whilst blocking (or for 2 seconds after), using siphoning for resources works well for NB DPS but not for NB tanks (waiting 20 seconds is not useful in the slightest, nor is loosing 900 stamina instantly for that luxury...) and even if executioner wasn't currently broken, it requires perfect timing, costs more resources than you get back, and requires you to slot a damaging assasination skill. However they can all be somewhat mitigated by going Argonian. Unfortunately for the NB tank, all the above stamina resource management work wonderfully for stamblade. Any potential changes could upset the balance there if they were not done VERY carefully.

re the sorc, they can also use spell symmentry without the healing penalty (clan fear heals), which is also the largest single target heal in the game for tanks. Only downside is if the thing dies you can't use it until you've summoned another. Then there is a lot of concussion for extra damage, and implosion for some nice DPS to boot.

Zeni0s

Dk
Warden
Sorc (all of them were good)
Templar (only in newbies area lv10/40)
NB (khajiit NB tank only dyin or with 2 axes. Yes.)

In vet Dg only seen Dk wardens and sorc.

jypcy

@aeowulf agreed re: your reply to my post, but still possible to do most everything you mentioned on other classes. Not actively chain ofc, but just los works in most scenarios (and in some is even better than pulls). That said, I’m with you that the differences are more extreme for the role and expectations of tanking nowadays than marginal dps differences. Even beyond ease of stacking, maiming, etc. that all classes can do but some are obviously better at, with the switch back to dark elf+flame vma meta, I feel hella guilty not being able to apply engulfing flames with my other tanks.

Also, to be fair, I don’t think Dovakiin mentioned actually tanking vmol on nb, just all the base game trials on vet. So no evidence but nothing stated as fact that’s unfounded yet either

Lynx7386

Zeni0s wrote: »

Dk
Warden
Sorc (all of them were good)
Templar (only in newbies area lv10/40)
NB (khajiit NB tank only dyin or with 2 axes. Yes.)

In vet Dg only seen Dk wardens and sorc.

Hey, prior to the sap nerf my khajiit nb tank was amazing =P

Marginis

As a Nightblade tank I see myself all the time. Being primarily that I also hear and read a fair amount about others like me (so my anecdotal support there is probably biased). Dragonknight tanks are literally everywhere (found one under my bed yesterday, had to shoo him out the door with a broom handle), Warden tanks are pretty great (but what AREN'T Wardens good at?), Templars have historically been great tanks (although I haven't seen very many at all recently, outside a Templar healer who could off-tank), and Sorcerer tanks... well, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a Sorcerer tank (but by the divines can they be hard to kill in PVP. Best PVP tanks I've ever encountered, personally).

usmcjdking

aeowulf wrote: »

@usmcjdking Interesting thoughts, thanks

I think half the issue with NB is they were sap tanks, and this was removed. Other styles of tanking are no where near as much fun, so met with some (ok, a lot of) resistance. Humans tend to dislike change. Then there is the other half the problem, made up with things like making life tougher for the group (lack of chains, root etc) & perception. The group won't care about your resource management as long as you have enough.

usmcjdking wrote: »

Nightblade has built in evasion and stam return which make it fairly strong.

NB tank doesn't really have good stam return. It's probably the fourth worse class in that regard, beaten only by templar. The built in regen does not work whilst blocking (or for 2 seconds after), using siphoning for resources works well for NB DPS but not for NB tanks (waiting 20 seconds is not useful in the slightest, nor is loosing 900 stamina instantly for that luxury...) and even if executioner wasn't currently broken, it requires perfect timing, costs more resources than you get back, and requires you to slot a damaging assasination skill. However they can all be somewhat mitigated by going Argonian. Unfortunately for the NB tank, all the above stamina resource management work wonderfully for stamblade. Any potential changes could upset the balance there if they were not done VERY carefully.

re the sorc, they can also use spell symmentry without the healing penalty (clan fear heals), which is also the largest single target heal in the game for tanks. Only downside is if the thing dies you can't use it until you've summoned another. Then there is a lot of concussion for extra damage, and implosion for some nice DPS to boot.

Sorc doesn't have a useful magdump to use spell sym with. A simple atro mundus is more than enough regen on a sorc tank. While that is a handy interaction, Sorc tank has nothing to spend it's magicka on in your standard PVE content.

Asardes

If you need Heal-Tank Warden is the way to go IMO. Over the week-end I've been able to do vDSA on my Warden tank w/o healer and with 2 stamina DDs in group so it's pretty strong in that combo. I had to sacrifice some of my Aggressive Horns for Replenishing Barrier or Enchanted Forest during the harder phases, and I reckon with 3 magicka DDs it would have been much smoother since they are sturdier due to shields. Later I PuG-ed nSO repeatedly with just one healer and 10 DDs and provided 40-50% of group heals since most of those were melee. At some point I was able to literally cast Forest before it ran out due to the very high ultimate recovery - 20 ultimate instantly refunded for allies under 50% so you only have to gain 70. I had no trouble managing my other resources overall. I wouldn't even think about doing the same with a Templar since I you fight with others for corpses to repent and run out of stamina pretty fast and the AoE healing ultimate is a channel and you can't do anything else after you cast it.

aeowulf

All 'rare' tanks share a common problem, that's not easy to address. Firstly, new players: Right now, someone starts playing ESO, decides they want to be a tank and get to say, level 20. They've joined a guild, ask for some advice and are pointed to two websites. Woeler & Alcast. Woeler is probably the most accessible trial tank out there, he has a website devoted to tanking in ESO. He lists 3 tanks, and look what he says about them:

Class: Dragonknight
Purpose: Trials Main-Tank

Class: Warden
Purpose: Trials Main-Tank

Class: Nightblade
Purpose: Dungeon and Veteran Dungeon Tank

Alcast fairs better, and has tank builds for all 5 classes, look what he says about them:

The Stamina Dragonknight Build Catalyst is optimized for Dungeons & Trials.
The Warden Tank Build is optimized for 4-Man Dungeons & Trials!
The Nightblade Tank Build Siphoner is optimized for Dungeons.
The Sorcerer Tank Build Capacitor is optimized for Dungeons.
The Templar Tank Build Paladin is optimized for Dungeons.

Firstly, any new player will immediately look at the dk & warden and decide they are better because they are suitable for trials and the other classes are not. This perception needs altering, but...

Secondly, Woeler & Alcast are right, kinda. The other classes cannot perform as well as a dk or warden in trials, so why would they start saying otherwise. Even if ZOS changed the rare tank classes, it's going to take months for them to become percieved as acceptable, whether they are or not.

So that new player will end up playing a dk or warden, until websites like these are changed. And for those to be changed, the classes need to be competitive in that area, otherwise the authors will be publishing inaccurate information, which is no good for them or anyone.

Then there are the experienced players, the ones in a position to ignore any build websites and go out on their own with their builds. They can theorycraft well, have capped cp, gold gear and a ton of high DPS friends that make encounters much easier. They may well take a rare classed tank into a dungeon for a giggle, maybe even a trial. But when it comes to their scored run, they will switch to their DPS or DK tank, because 'they are better'.

ZoS really need to pay a LOT more attention to the roles the classes play, particularly in random vet pug finder where 'fake tanks' are somewhat avoided. It is a good indication of (the lack of) balance in the area where roles start being important. This will then get less & less dilluted & flexible the closer you get to meta.

This does not just apply to tanks btw, same can be said for healers, and the lack of non templar/warden.

Zeni0s

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hey, prior to the sap nerf my khajiit nb tank was amazing =P

You were running 2 axes?

Tasear

aeowulf wrote: »

All 'rare' tanks share a common problem, that's not easy to address. Firstly, new players: Right now, someone starts playing ESO, decides they want to be a tank and get to say, level 20. They've joined a guild, ask for some advice and are pointed to two websites. Woeler & Alcast. Woeler is probably the most accessible trial tank out there, he has a website devoted to tanking in ESO. He lists 3 tanks, and look what he says about them:

Class: Dragonknight
Purpose: Trials Main-Tank

Class: Warden
Purpose: Trials Main-Tank

Class: Nightblade
Purpose: Dungeon and Veteran Dungeon Tank

Alcast fairs better, and has tank builds for all 5 classes, look what he says about them:

The Stamina Dragonknight Build Catalyst is optimized for Dungeons & Trials.
The Warden Tank Build is optimized for 4-Man Dungeons & Trials!
The Nightblade Tank Build Siphoner is optimized for Dungeons.
The Sorcerer Tank Build Capacitor is optimized for Dungeons.
The Templar Tank Build Paladin is optimized for Dungeons.

Firstly, any new player will immediately look at the dk & warden and decide they are better because they are suitable for trials and the other classes are not. This perception needs altering, but...

Secondly, Woeler & Alcast are right, kinda. The other classes cannot perform as well as a dk or warden in trials, so why would they start saying otherwise. Even if ZOS changed the rare tank classes, it's going to take months for them to become percieved as acceptable, whether they are or not.

So that new player will end up playing a dk or warden, until websites like these are changed. And for those to be changed, the classes need to be competitive in that area, otherwise the authors will be publishing inaccurate information, which is no good for them or anyone.

Then there are the experienced players, the ones in a position to ignore any build websites and go out on their own with their builds. They can theorycraft well, have capped cp, gold gear and a ton of high DPS friends that make encounters much easier. They may well take a rare classed tank into a dungeon for a giggle, maybe even a trial. But when it comes to their scored run, they will switch to their DPS or DK tank, because 'they are better'.

ZoS really need to pay a LOT more attention to the roles the classes play, particularly in random vet pug finder where 'fake tanks' are somewhat avoided. It is a good indication of (the lack of) balance in the area where roles start being important. This will then get less & less dilluted & flexible the closer you get to meta.

This does not just apply to tanks btw, same can be said for healers, and the lack of non templar/warden.

I share this annoyance with healer build show pieces they put up. It's not as accurate of tank situation. I was hoping skill adviser would help control player contolled perception issue.

Rohaus

Hello Kitty

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

ZOS made it clear that tanks are only Dragonknights. Anything else is either a wannabe or a scammer.

Lynx7386

Zeni0s wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hey, prior to the sap nerf my khajiit nb tank was amazing =P

You were running 2 axes?

Huh?