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Useless monster sets in PvP?
Datolite
✭✭✭✭✭
Can anyone tell me the last time they saw Stormfist or Ilambris being used in any scenario? Especially with Skoria and Grothdarr being so much more effective. Why do we even have these sets?
I wouldn't mind seeing a balancing between them to give PvP at least a bit more flavor. I really like the idea of meteor showers and thunder fists becoming a thing.
Edited by Datolite on March 13, 2018 10:16PM I wouldn't mind seeing a balancing between them to give PvP at least a bit more flavor. I really like the idea of meteor showers and thunder fists becoming a thing.
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Liko✭✭✭Stormfist is one of the most valuable PVE monster sets for stamina DDs. Admittedly less so since the synergy changes this patch, but still its my second most used behind Velidreth.
Illambris is one of the most valuable PVE monster sets for magicka DDs, especially Magsorcs.
So the last time I saw any of these two used, are basically in any raid I've been in, in the last few months!6 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Oops I forgot to mention PvP in the title.
Some work better in different areas...but idk useless is probably things like nightflame.0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Oops I forgot to mention PvP in the title.
Some work better in different areas...but idk useless is probably things like nightflame.
You are very mistaken calling Bogdan useless.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stormfist works pretty good in PVP and PVE on a stam sorc.
In PVP, it forces a dodge roll and eats up an opponents stamina. Plus, it tight spaces, like a flag fight, the AOE damage is added pressure. Once it procs, if you can stun an opponent in it, it deals a decent of damage when the duration ends as well. And in order for them to avoid all of the damage, they have to break free from the stun and dodge roll the Stormfist proc, forcing them to either eat a lot of damage or burn through even more stamina. An added bonus is both damage types, physical and shock, have a chance to proc Implosion and a sorc has damage bonuses to both damage types as well.0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was super disappointed in nerie'neth when I tried it out this weekend on a magblade. For 10% chance to proc on any direct damage every 3 seconds, I saw it proc maybe once every 15-20 seconds while spamming strife, light weaving, and merciless resolve. Terrible proc rate and crap damage.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank4 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was super disappointed in nerie'neth when I tried it out this weekend on a magblade. For 10% chance to proc on any direct damage every 3 seconds, I saw it proc maybe once every 15-20 seconds while spamming strife, light weaving, and merciless resolve. Terrible proc rate and crap damage.
Nerieneth can be good if you build completely around it. With your current setup you are hitting with a skill, a light attack, and maybe an enchant every second, so you have at most 2 to 2.5 (with infused weapon and direct damage enchant) chances to proc Nerieneth.
I like the set combined with force pulse (3 direct damage attacks per second), a perfect asylum staff (2 direct damage attacks, concuss and chill, every other force pulse), an infused staff with absorb Magicka enchant (sustain so I never have to stop and heavy attack, and a direct damage proc every 2s), and light attack weaving (1direct damage attack per second). This nets 5.5 direct damage attacks per second, and Nerieneth procs on cooldown.
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Think about the sets you are praising and the sets you are trashing for a second. The ones you trashed are some of the most sought after PVE sets in the game and the ones you praised are some of the most powerful PVP sets. Clearly, you dont run a lot of trials, not saying there is anything wrong with that.
The fundamental difference between these sets is that some stay on an area, and others stay on a target (or self). The former tend to actually hit harder and are great on NPCs not clever enough to walk out of the area, the later dont quite hit as hard, but are smarter in their design, whether its skoria that follows a target, or grothdar that follows you as a caster. Nerienth has a similar problem as the first type. Hits hard, but easy to step out of.
There are plenty of useless monster sets, but you havent mentioned any yet. Useful does not mean BIS for all situations.
Edit: I almost never see Ilambris in PVP, but I do see Stormfist with some regularity.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 13, 2018 5:01PM1 -
Sleep724✭✭✭✭✭Sellistrix. Can’t remember the last time I saw anyone using this in pvp. Then again it could be timed to knock down a small Zerg or bombing group...1
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Can anyone tell me the last time they saw Stormfist or Ilambris being used in any scenario? Especially with Skoria and Grothdarr being so much more effective. Why do we even have these sets?
I wouldn't mind seeing a balancing between them to give PvP at least a bit more flavor. I really like the idea of meteor showers and thunder fists becoming a thing.
Last night.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Jarryzzt✭✭✭✭Ooh, a troll! Let's feed it! [Mommy, he's humping my leg...]
Ironically, Alcast recommends Illambris for magisorc's - stating that, I quote, it gives the best damage out of all available options - and Stormfist for more than one stamina class.
So yes, those sets are totally and completely useless.
Of course, anyone who'd thought about the matter for more than two seconds ought to have figured out that Illambris, Skoria, Grothdar and Stormfist are used for very different situations and playing styles (and resources, even, where Stormfist is involved). It's sort of like comparing Poison Injection to Puncture. And about as useful.
The fun bit is the OP could have actually made a case against Illambris to some extent, which in my personal experience suffers in mobile fights due to its AoEs being stationary and pretty small, whereas Skoria/Zaan are auto-hit and Grothdar is a PBAoE. To wit, I've switched my Magsorc to Zaan from Illambris (with good single-target results) precisely for this reason.
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Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the issue here is the PVP / PVE divide.
In PVP you either want a set that will keep you alive, or one that will make it easier to kill someone. So basically anything that offers survivability, utility or instant/unavoidable damage is going to be good.
On the other hand, in PVE you just want high DPS out of a monster set. Stormfist is going to outdamage Velidreth in PVE, but the delay on Stormfist makes it less useful in PVP.
The bad sets are more the ones along the lines of Sellestrix, where the "utility" of the set (stun etc) takes away from the power budget and make it a suboptimal dps option, but due to delays and such on the proc, they see no use in PVP where that is actually desiredLord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭.I was super disappointed in nerie'neth when I tried it out this weekend on a magblade. For 10% chance to proc on any direct damage every 3 seconds, I saw it proc maybe once every 15-20 seconds while spamming strife, light weaving, and merciless resolve. Terrible proc rate and crap damage.
You said you were spamming strife and light weaving and using merciless resolve. I see 2 issues that would reduce the uptime of Nerien'eth for you ...
1. I assume you are weaving your light attacks with a ranged weapon. Ranged attacks have travel time, so you won't land as many 'light attacks' in the same amount of time as you would have if you were in melee range using a melee weapon. For someone with decent weaving skills, that can add up to a sizeable difference in as little as 20 seconds. The more direct damage attacks you can land per global cool-down, the greater the odds of Nerien'eth proc'ing.
2. Damage from enchantments acts as a source of 'direct damage' that can trigger proc sets like Nerien'eth. What procs a weapon enchantment? Weapon skills as well as heavy/light attacks. Strife is a class skill and won't proc a weapon enchantment. The long and short of it: The RNG odds of your weapon enchantment proc'ing is reduced when only half of your attacks have the ability to proc it. That, in turn, means Nerien'eth also has a reduced chance to proc.
Nerien'eth Damage - I haven't tested which CP nodes effect Nerien'eth's Damage and I would rather not guess. I do know, however, that penetration (or lack thereof) seems to have an impact on it. On my test dummy, Nerien'eth does a little over 9K damage when my set-up includes decent penetration (Spriggins, sharpened weapons, and CP specked into penetration) ... but Nerien'eth's damage drops significantly if I have low penetration. Also, I don't know if it makes a difference in Nerien'eth's damage, but I am a stamblade.
I hope this is somewhat helpful.Edited by Maryal on March 13, 2018 8:38PM0 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭Sellistrix. Can’t remember the last time I saw anyone using this in pvp. Then again it could be timed to knock down a small Zerg or bombing group...
And someone else mentioned it in here as one of the "true" useless PVP sets.
So yea, I use it in PVP quite a bit. Not exclusively, but often.
I run a Stam Warden geared for what I'd call "Combat Support" style of play. So the 1v1 mano a mano confrontation is something to avoid at all costs.
Instead get up tight on the front lines throwing Caltrips, Flying Daggers, Bear running around doing swipes and throwing heals. When I Bird Of Prey dash in its to make a 1v1 be a 2v1 with Rapid Strikes, Rend, Deadly Cloak and LA attack weaves. Basically there is a lot of tic-ing damage happening there with any aspect of it capable of procing Sellistix which makes the (way too) low 10% chance viable. Barely. On occasion I'll even slot Growing Swarm not for the meaningless damage but for the group Stuns. The ranged Swarm, Daggers, Caltips will do "remote" stuns.
The group stun is great. You can drop a whole group around a flag when charging in. If defending from a keep wall dropping Caltrips and keeping up a decent stun rate can really slow down a front door assault or get them picked off. If you are in the group going through the front door tossing up Caltrips and Flying Daggers and with stuns you can force several defenders off the wall or even silence a seige engine or two.
Its not how many kills I get, its how many kills the group gets. FWIW its not a bad style for AP as you have a ton of "assist" kills.
Sub-par 1v1 set for PVP for sure. For a "Combat Support" for the group style of play, its not that bad. Not claiming its great either. I just like seeing them all fall down.Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on May 11, 2018 3:30AM3 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭IMHO, there are very very few sets in this game (Monster or otherwise) that are truly "useless"...
I endorse evaluating overall builds rather than slapping a tag on a givent gear set and labeling it as "useless"...
This game allows for tremendous creativity when it comes to character building, and as a result, I believe that most of the sets in this game can be effective if it has synergy with the rest of ones build...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on May 11, 2018 8:50AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sets with ground target DMG don't have the same functionality as sets that debuff or give utility.
Though sets like grothdarr with huge air circles have their okay in PvP, especially with classes that can't move but can reposition targets around them (DK).
I think it's personal preference, and what others said some were made with pve in mind over PvP, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think we could use a few extra sets soon, we still don't have a monster helm for crit resists (for those than want options outside of impreg for PvP) and there's still no helm that has a similar function to slimecraw but for utility (like gain minor mending at all times, etc for pve that might want to boost their stats or open up their bars to fit different abilities).
That's my thoughts currently.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I saw some Illambris in PvP - during the anniversary event. Probably someone who wanted boxes without changing gear around. It was kind of funny to see it proc with red circles for a change.
I suppose you could use it in a few bottleneck situations, but there's still much better options out there.Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the title „useless in PvP“ really goes to the Nightflame set. Low proc chance, stationary heal, and a low one at that. I personally never saw that set used by anyone.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the title „useless in PvP“ really goes to the Nightflame set. Low proc chance, stationary heal, and a low one at that. I personally never saw that set used by anyone.
I’m probably one of the only people to find a really good use of this set. First I want to make it known that 2500 Health a second is not low. Technically it’s 3x the strength of troll king heal. It is stationary but some fights are stationary. Breaches doorways tops of towers or any fight between even(ish) fights. The low proc chance can be addressed a few ways.
I first learned of this set from a really great player. He normally runs solo in the sewers all day. And I might have beat him in a few duels out of dozens ( I’m not the best at dueling but great a running a medium group). He used this in a group 5-6 people. Vigor and extended rituals rally blood craze kept this set up about 70% 80% of the time.
That’s when I learned the potential of this set. There are a few set that heals nearby allies. Troll king earthgore chokethorn Bogdan redistribution.
I swear up and down that Bogdan is one of the best monster set to use on a werewolf. It is one of the best because that 5% with claws of life can ramp up quickly. Seventh legion vitality pots and 4 enemies is now a 30% chance per second to get 100% uptime. When 4 werewolves have this equipped in this scenario you can pretty much have 2 different 2500 heals all the time. If all 4 proc like in a doorway it takes an incredible amount of damage to kill 4 Tanky werewolves with 10k health per second going to them on top of claws of life. And a doorway on close quarters isn’t a place you want to fight 4 werewolves either.
Even in duels this can be really strong. I’ve had multiple people wearing troll king complain to me to take of “whatever your wearing “ because they don’t know what it is. One of my MDK 5 Star friends won’t even duel me anymore because of it.
IMO this set is far from useless. Not as useful as some others but in the right scenario this set is OP. To each their own though.1 -
lardvader✭✭✭✭✭Aww I expected thread with silly pictures of useless monster helmets.
Here's one:
CP 1200+ PC EU EP2 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mephala's is pretty bad. Its just an old pve set that is garbage compared to the new ones. It needs a revamp.PS4 NA DC0 -
exiars10✭✭✭Mephala is good for PvE. Not the best but good enough (balanced).I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭I think the title „useless in PvP“ really goes to the Nightflame set. Low proc chance, stationary heal, and a low one at that. I personally never saw that set used by anyone.
I’m probably one of the only people to find a really good use of this set. First I want to make it known that 2500 Health a second is not low. Technically it’s 3x the strength of troll king heal. It is stationary but some fights are stationary. Breaches doorways tops of towers or any fight between even(ish) fights. The low proc chance can be addressed a few ways.
I first learned of this set from a really great player. He normally runs solo in the sewers all day. And I might have beat him in a few duels out of dozens ( I’m not the best at dueling but great a running a medium group). He used this in a group 5-6 people. Vigor and extended rituals rally blood craze kept this set up about 70% 80% of the time.
That’s when I learned the potential of this set. There are a few set that heals nearby allies. Troll king earthgore chokethorn Bogdan redistribution.
I swear up and down that Bogdan is one of the best monster set to use on a werewolf. It is one of the best because that 5% with claws of life can ramp up quickly. Seventh legion vitality pots and 4 enemies is now a 30% chance per second to get 100% uptime. When 4 werewolves have this equipped in this scenario you can pretty much have 2 different 2500 heals all the time. If all 4 proc like in a doorway it takes an incredible amount of damage to kill 4 Tanky werewolves with 10k health per second going to them on top of claws of life. And a doorway on close quarters isn’t a place you want to fight 4 werewolves either.
Even in duels this can be really strong. I’ve had multiple people wearing troll king complain to me to take of “whatever your wearing “ because they don’t know what it is. One of my MDK 5 Star friends won’t even duel me anymore because of it.
IMO this set is far from useless. Not as useful as some others but in the right scenario this set is OP. To each their own though.
Excellent, excellent, post...
Nightflame is one of those sets that have been deemed bad by players who havent fully explored its potential and have ignorantly discarded it as they didnt properly test the limits of what it can do...
What you have demonstrated with Nightflame also applies to many gear sets in this game...
Because of the extreme ignorance you commonly see on the forums when it comes to sets that are labeled as "bad," I take them all with a grain of salt...
If a given set seems interesting to me, I do my own analysis on it before rendering judgement oposed to blindly taking the word of someone here on the forums...
There have been several sets that people here on the forums swear are garbage, but I have been able to extract good performance out of...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »I think the title „useless in PvP“ really goes to the Nightflame set. Low proc chance, stationary heal, and a low one at that. I personally never saw that set used by anyone.
I’m probably one of the only people to find a really good use of this set. First I want to make it known that 2500 Health a second is not low. Technically it’s 3x the strength of troll king heal. It is stationary but some fights are stationary. Breaches doorways tops of towers or any fight between even(ish) fights. The low proc chance can be addressed a few ways.
I first learned of this set from a really great player. He normally runs solo in the sewers all day. And I might have beat him in a few duels out of dozens ( I’m not the best at dueling but great a running a medium group). He used this in a group 5-6 people. Vigor and extended rituals rally blood craze kept this set up about 70% 80% of the time.
That’s when I learned the potential of this set. There are a few set that heals nearby allies. Troll king earthgore chokethorn Bogdan redistribution.
I swear up and down that Bogdan is one of the best monster set to use on a werewolf. It is one of the best because that 5% with claws of life can ramp up quickly. Seventh legion vitality pots and 4 enemies is now a 30% chance per second to get 100% uptime. When 4 werewolves have this equipped in this scenario you can pretty much have 2 different 2500 heals all the time. If all 4 proc like in a doorway it takes an incredible amount of damage to kill 4 Tanky werewolves with 10k health per second going to them on top of claws of life. And a doorway on close quarters isn’t a place you want to fight 4 werewolves either.
Even in duels this can be really strong. I’ve had multiple people wearing troll king complain to me to take of “whatever your wearing “ because they don’t know what it is. One of my MDK 5 Star friends won’t even duel me anymore because of it.
IMO this set is far from useless. Not as useful as some others but in the right scenario this set is OP. To each their own though.
Excellent, excellent, post...
Nightflame is one of those sets that have been deemed bad by players who havent fully explored its potential and have ignorantly discarded it as they didnt properly test the limits of what it can do...
What you have demonstrated with Nightflame also applies to many gear sets in this game...
Because of the extreme ignorance you commonly see on the forums when it comes to sets that are labeled as "bad," I take them all with a grain of salt...
If a given set seems interesting to me, I do my own analysis on it before rendering judgement oposed to blindly taking the word of someone here on the forums...
There have been several sets that people here on the forums swear are garbage, but I have been able to extract good performance out of...
Combat prayer is still trash0
