[VIDEO] Medium Armor Has Plenty Survivability. Especially a StamBlade. No Crit Heals Is Ok

Own

https://youtu.be/Qv-dCoC-K20





sry I couldn't get many kills. too many healers/tanks/durok's
thanks mike and friends for saving me from 3 minutes of fighting an 80k HP tank and his two tank companions

Minno

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

Own

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

mostly I was using this to counter the arugment. I will change title to match if i can

One thing to note is that Durok's had a high uptime, and Survival was still good. I still think Durok's should be like 6 seconds, along with reverb. It forces a full fight reset. Not fun for people fighting cloaking StamBlades, they have to run away.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Own

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

Aedaryl

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

If you think you will feels the nerf heal in PvE you are wrong, PvE healing is the easiest thing to do in this game, you will always heal people extremely well even if they BALANCE crit healing. What make a healer good or bad is his capacity to support people in ressource managment and buffs. A healer that have trouble to heal people is a trash.

In PvP, stamina builds are overperforming because healing + high mitigation + block or dodge is too strong. Balancing the crit healing by nerfing it is a good thing.

BUT they need to nerf defile in the same time, because the change should be a buff to people that doesn't have a good access to defile, it shoudn't be a buff to defile machines.

Own

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

EDIT: I have 24% in precise strikes, blessed is mostly the best option to pull from for PvP stam dps. otherwise you lose red cp mitigation for heals. It's kind of cool balancing tanking/damage/heals to any point you want to.

Seraphayel

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

How do you know about the changes for heal skills? Did ZOS say something about it?

DDuke

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

ak_pvp

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Own

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

also, Nightblade is fine.

My build is not meta, anyone that knows will tell you that about all of my builds. 2003 base stamina recovery, which is REALLY forking low for what I want to do. I generally rely of offensive kills for stamina returns/assassins will kills for 30% stamina recovery from 2h passives.
There was a duroks tank following me around the entire time with multiple opponents, and I was fine. That was the point.

If there wasn't Duroks, it would have been different.

If there was mark, I can still LoS every other person and focus the nightblade.

ZOS should increase the stacking modifier, decrease well fitted from 5% to 3%, and decrease tumbling. I have said this many times also.

Thanks!

DDuke

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

Minno

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

also, Nightblade is fine.

My build is not meta, anyone that knows will tell you that about all of my builds. 2003 base stamina recovery, which is REALLY forking low for what I want to do. I generally rely of offensive kills for stamina returns/assassins will kills for 30% stamina recovery from 2h passives.
There was a duroks tank following me around the entire time with multiple opponents, and I was fine. That was the point.

If there wasn't Duroks, it would have been different.

If there was mark, I can still LoS every other person and focus the nightblade.

ZOS should increase the stacking modifier, decrease well fitted from 5% to 3%, and decrease tumbling. I have said this many times also.

Thanks!

That would punish players who aren't nightblades though. Well fitted might be the only change you could do, since everyone slots impen anyway. It could get the block cost increase treatment, but then again that's not interesting gameplay.

Minno

Seraphayel wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

How do you know about the changes for heal skills? Did ZOS say something about it?

Yea nightblade hemorrhage thread in the bug forum and on crowns discord. There should be an official writeup at some point. But it all leads to crit DMG modifier being changed so they don't boost heals.

Beamer_Miasma

l3alls wrote: »

ZOS should increase the stacking modifier, decrease well fitted from 5% to 3%, and decrease tumbling. I have said this many times also.

Thanks!

Indeed, let's kill off the only viable alternative to full divines/impen. What are these people thinking with their nonsensical creativity. Can't we just all be the same?

QuebraRegra

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

wait whut!?!?! how is crit being changed in terms of it's effect on heals!?!?! My MAGBLADE healer is now worried... Why is s change necessary?

ak_pvp

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

That is best mitigation. Heal buffs. And dot supression. Separate, not best all. But whatever, comparison:

Best mitigation: Cloak totally stops non AoE damage, no numerical limit either. And makes you untargettable/invisible. AoEs/detect/mark can break that, but most cases enough speed can deal with AoEs since you can't be seen. That outweights everything else. Apparently you can tap cloak even when detected to force a miss.

Healing: Guaranteed crits inside cloak+siphoner passive > templar mending+minor mending, and burning heart+igneous OFC something like burning embers or BOL is a higher total heal, but for amps NB wins. Warden might be comparable because super good passive heals from ult, light attacks, cheap burst.

NB dot suppression>Templar purge. Purge removes 5 effects, dots not guaranteed. Also can be reapplied straight away, if in cloak, your safer.

Waffennacht

Anything NB is gonna look good.

Esp Stam where... Wtf is even undodgeable anymore? Curse? PotL? Lul

Jsmalls

Low key a Sorc buff, I'll take it

DDuke

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

That is best mitigation. Heal buffs. And dot supression. Separate, not best all. But whatever, comparison:

Best mitigation: Cloak totally stops non AoE damage, no numerical limit either. And makes you untargettable/invisible. AoEs/detect/mark can break that, but most cases enough speed can deal with AoEs since you can't be seen. That outweights everything else. Apparently you can tap cloak even when detected to force a miss.

You can cloak around 3-4 times in a row as stamblade before running completely out of magicka, and that's when stretching the cloak duration to the maximum before recasting cloak.

If a stamblade is running fear as well, the most it takes is one or two AoEs (every class has them) & stamblade won't be able to cloak for another 10-11 seconds with the base 700'ish mag regen & 3,9k magicka cost on cloak.

The main reason it's considered strong is because it can be used to "reset" the dodge roll stacking cost modifier (or well, the whole fight if combo'd with Shadow Image), where as other classes are forced to hold block or find some other (usually more risky/resource intensive) means of surviving for the duration.

So again we're back at the main issue: people being able to spam dodge roll waaay too much.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Healing: Guaranteed crits inside cloak+siphoner passive > templar mending+minor mending, and burning heart+igneous OFC something like burning embers or BOL is a higher total heal, but for amps NB wins. Warden might be comparable because super good passive heals from ult, light attacks, cheap burst.

Heals are not guaranteed crits inside cloak (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged) and stamblades don't run siphoning skills as they're almost all made for magblades (well, some run Siphoning Attacks/Leeching Strikes but that's it).

So again, there's nothing that would make NBs heal better than other classes - it just sounds to me you're personally having a hard time vs cloak (as mDK, I recommend slotting Empowering Chains & Volatile Armor - counters every cloak except Shadow Image->Cloak).

ak_pvp wrote: »

NB dot suppression>Templar purge. Purge removes 5 effects, dots not guaranteed. Also can be reapplied straight away, if in cloak, your safer.

If you have more than 5 effects on you, chances are high cloak is going to break instantly from some bugged skill & will just drain your magicka, or that there's multiple people on you, meaning high chances of Piercing Mark, Curses/Burning Light etc breaking your cloak & now we're back to how LoS is necessary to adequately survive as stamblade.

Not even close to Ritual in terms of strength there.

Own

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

This was an unlisted video for submission, but I built a full dps StamDK in 7 medium. I heard they were the worst character, but I had a lot of fun for the few months I played it. While I was fighting Bad players, you can see the potential. Add in the fact I'm bad at DK. I don't think StamDK are bad. They're just best in 2-6 man groups. Solo is hard, but when you get (off-healing) in medium they are strong. I really think it's just meant to be played like this to be an offensive player.

https://youtu.be/M4QcPuMPRWg

Ragnarock41

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

wait, is this official?

I mean the crit heals thing?

Ragnarock41

l3alls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

This was an unlisted video for submission, but I built a full dps StamDK in 7 medium. I heard they were the worst character, but I had a lot of fun for the few months I played it. While I was fighting Bad players, you can see the potential. Add in the fact I'm bad at DK. I don't think StamDK are bad. They're just best in 2-6 man groups. Solo is hard, but when you get (off-healing) in medium they are strong. I really think it's just meant to be played like this to be an offensive player.

https://youtu.be/M4QcPuMPRWg

Sorry but killing a bunch of potatoes that do nothing but bow light attacks, and than saying medium stamDK is fine (or lets say medium in general because anything in medium is squishy af) isn't really gonna change my opinion on the class. (of course not here to call you a bad player here.)

Play against a few above-average stamblades in this very same setup and you will see what I'm meaning.

GeorgeBlack

This is offiacially by my stamp a nerfsorc thread.
Removing crit heals would make shields a more powerful survival mech.

Shields should take crit dmg
Remove dmg bonus from max resources

Own

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

This was an unlisted video for submission, but I built a full dps StamDK in 7 medium. I heard they were the worst character, but I had a lot of fun for the few months I played it. While I was fighting Bad players, you can see the potential. Add in the fact I'm bad at DK. I don't think StamDK are bad. They're just best in 2-6 man groups. Solo is hard, but when you get (off-healing) in medium they are strong. I really think it's just meant to be played like this to be an offensive player.

https://youtu.be/M4QcPuMPRWg

Sorry but killing a bunch of potatoes that do nothing but bow light attacks, and than saying medium stamDK is fine (or lets say medium in general because anything in medium is squishy af) isn't really gonna change my opinion on the class. (of course not here to call you a bad player here.)

Play against a few above-average stamblades in this very same setup and you will see what I'm meaning.

oh I did plenty of that. I tried to the fullest extent I knew how to solo with StamDK, and it was really hard. Especially with multiple stamblades, but what class doesn't have a problem with 2+ incaps at once.

I just meant to show the offensive possibilities for full medium with 25k leap/18k dizzy tooltips. It worked really well 1vPotato and 1vMedium Skill. Against good players it is frustrating to solo. With one off-heals, even vigor, Full DPS medium StamDK can be very strong with all of the healing received. StamDK good 2-6 man.

I think Medium Armor on StamDen would work really well, I don't know if people are doing this yet. I plan to play mine when they get nerfed and everyone quits them.

I feel really good about StamPlar in medium with being able to purge Defile and DoT's. I think I saw Kodi on one a month or so ago, maybe I'll check out if he posted a good 1vpotato video on it.

StamSorc Blows. I have 3.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

wait, is this official?

I mean the crit heals thing?

Yep It's confirmed by Gina, I did read it somewhere. It is going to apply to all crit damage modifiers.

Vaoh

I just want Crystal Frags to have its stun and damage back.... you all can keep your fancy stuff.

Own

Vaoh wrote: »

I just want Crystal Frags to have its stun and damage back.... you all can keep your fancy stuff.

It really feels like they gutted it instead of fixing. All Frag's should CC. It always feels weird taking one to the face and nothing happening.

Buff Sorc Thread! No troll, buff Magicka and Stamina Sorcs

Ragnarock41

l3alls wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

This was an unlisted video for submission, but I built a full dps StamDK in 7 medium. I heard they were the worst character, but I had a lot of fun for the few months I played it. While I was fighting Bad players, you can see the potential. Add in the fact I'm bad at DK. I don't think StamDK are bad. They're just best in 2-6 man groups. Solo is hard, but when you get (off-healing) in medium they are strong. I really think it's just meant to be played like this to be an offensive player.

https://youtu.be/M4QcPuMPRWg

Sorry but killing a bunch of potatoes that do nothing but bow light attacks, and than saying medium stamDK is fine (or lets say medium in general because anything in medium is squishy af) isn't really gonna change my opinion on the class. (of course not here to call you a bad player here.)

Play against a few above-average stamblades in this very same setup and you will see what I'm meaning.

oh I did plenty of that. I tried to the fullest extent I knew how to solo with StamDK, and it was really hard. Especially with multiple stamblades, but what class doesn't have a problem with 2+ incaps at once.

I just meant to show the offensive possibilities for full medium with 25k leap/18k dizzy tooltips. It worked really well 1vPotato and 1vMedium Skill. Against good players it is frustrating to solo. With one off-heals, even vigor, Full DPS medium StamDK can be very strong with all of the healing received. StamDK good 2-6 man.

I think Medium Armor on StamDen would work really well, I don't know if people are doing this yet. I plan to play mine when they get nerfed and everyone quits them.

I feel really good about StamPlar in medium with being able to purge Defile and DoT's. I think I saw Kodi on one a month or so ago, maybe I'll check out if he posted a good 1vpotato video on it.

StamSorc Blows. I have 3.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

wait, is this official?

I mean the crit heals thing?

Yep It's confirmed by Gina, I did read it somewhere. It is going to apply to all crit damage modifiers.

I'm talking mainly from no-cp and battlegrounds mode experience, medium stamDK is pure garbage, a leap bot, and only that.

CP mitigations might make it a bit more survivable in cp campaign, but I doubt it at 21k hp.

in fact, I'm pretty sure I can actually kills this build with a single dizzy combo, kill it so fast it would die before it lands on the ground.

And about crit heal changes, Its sounds like scary news for all stam mains.

Sixty5

I definitely prefer to work in medium.

On the other hand I am currently abusing Fortified Brass for that sweet sweet mitigation.

Own

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation

So are they charging the way heals are calulated then? Because for the vast majority of them, they are just like damage spells, the higher your stats the higher your damage. Are they going to make a separate heal stat that healers will need to invest in? Because if it is just the crit damage they are taking away, it is really just a nerf to heals. Nothing else.

it forces you to take CP from damage, such as penetration, and put them into cp such as blessed to get those heals back. Ultimately it lowers the damage Cap

I didn't notice much of a difference in BG's

Lol what are you talking about? We are talking crit heals. They are removing the crit heal modifiers. Not sure why you would need to move any cps, as elfborn and precise strikes are the only two cirt modifiers that state both heals and damage. So I am seriously doubtful they would change those. Ultimately this is a nerf because of PvP and he mentally that everyone should die fast and no defensive abilities should be good.

This is a nerf. For nightblades and templars especially, framing it any other way is disingenuous as far as I care. You are making both my pve healers worse because of PvP.

You Lose 10% crit heals from Hemmorage. You take out of Penetration cp and Put Into Blessed to get your heals back. Your damage goes down.

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

why would I fight that many people in open field

Well, I guess you wouldn't want to since it completely ruins the point you're trying to make :P


You can't always run around trees or towers for LoS - in fact I'd wager the majority of PvP in Cyrodiil takes place in open field (BGs are another story).

Many medium armor builds (i.e. bow builds) actually have to fight in open field simply because close quarter combat isn't an option for those builds.


All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "medium armor has plenty of survivability" doesn't really hold true when looking at the big picture.

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

"Class X/Build Y has good survivability!

Proceeds to post a clip that consists entirely of running around tower LoS."

Ah, classic...

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should try surviving in open field - maybe with a piercing mark on you and some Soul Assaults flying your way?

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine, especially if you play a non-meta build that doesn't run 3k+ stam regen & spam dodge roll non-stop like 99% of people.


If anything, ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier on dodge roll to prevent permadodging, but boost survivability otherwise (i.e. mitigation/increased healing while dodge rolling, better survivability skills since Vigor is garbage etc etc).

Stamblade survivability is still far from fine.

Hmmmmm.... So the best mitigation, heal buff and dot suppression isn't enough? Yeah, mark+detect pots are bad hard counters, but they can be removed the second that cloak doesn't completely shut down dot builds, and doesn't provide extra healing.

Best mitigation: DK (Iron Skin, Scaled Armor passives), Templar (Spear Wall, Balanced Warrior passives)
Best heals: Warden (Bond With Nature, Emerald Moss, Major Mending from Accelerated Growth, access to spammable instant heals outside Rally, healing ulti etc etc), DK (Burning Heart passive, Major Mending from Igneous Shield)
Best DoT suppression: Templar (Extended Ritual removes those DoTs entirely)

Maybe you'd care to elaborate your comments?


I'm not saying stamblade is bad or anything, but survivability definitely isn't good when cloak is countered, especially if you run a build that actually can run out of stamina if forced to spam dodge roll.

This was an unlisted video for submission, but I built a full dps StamDK in 7 medium. I heard they were the worst character, but I had a lot of fun for the few months I played it. While I was fighting Bad players, you can see the potential. Add in the fact I'm bad at DK. I don't think StamDK are bad. They're just best in 2-6 man groups. Solo is hard, but when you get (off-healing) in medium they are strong. I really think it's just meant to be played like this to be an offensive player.

https://youtu.be/M4QcPuMPRWg

Sorry but killing a bunch of potatoes that do nothing but bow light attacks, and than saying medium stamDK is fine (or lets say medium in general because anything in medium is squishy af) isn't really gonna change my opinion on the class. (of course not here to call you a bad player here.)

Play against a few above-average stamblades in this very same setup and you will see what I'm meaning.

oh I did plenty of that. I tried to the fullest extent I knew how to solo with StamDK, and it was really hard. Especially with multiple stamblades, but what class doesn't have a problem with 2+ incaps at once.

I just meant to show the offensive possibilities for full medium with 25k leap/18k dizzy tooltips. It worked really well 1vPotato and 1vMedium Skill. Against good players it is frustrating to solo. With one off-heals, even vigor, Full DPS medium StamDK can be very strong with all of the healing received. StamDK good 2-6 man.

I think Medium Armor on StamDen would work really well, I don't know if people are doing this yet. I plan to play mine when they get nerfed and everyone quits them.

I feel really good about StamPlar in medium with being able to purge Defile and DoT's. I think I saw Kodi on one a month or so ago, maybe I'll check out if he posted a good 1vpotato video on it.

StamSorc Blows. I have 3.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

All crit DMG sources are being changed next patch to no longer boost heals (Gina still owes us an official writeup).

Seems like zos actually wants you to make a decision on high DMG or high heals while having access to good mitigation. Based on your video, you were able to score some kills, move around easily, and able to put pressure against 4 targets at once (not easy for some players/builds).

I think we are fine for now, just need to see what other changes they have in the pipeline for us to make suggestions on. I'm willing to bet blessed will get a buff to compensate for the crit DMG change.

wait, is this official?

I mean the crit heals thing?

Yep It's confirmed by Gina, I did read it somewhere. It is going to apply to all crit damage modifiers.

I'm talking mainly from no-cp and battlegrounds mode experience, medium stamDK is pure garbage, a leap bot, and only that.

CP mitigations might make it a bit more survivable in cp campaign, but I doubt it at 21k hp.

in fact, I'm pretty sure I can actually kills this build with a single dizzy combo, kill it so fast it would die before it lands on the ground.

And about crit heal changes, Its sounds like scary news for all stam mains.

I came to the end of a 100k Dueling tournament with this build the first day I built it/played anything but a pve tank on it. I only lost to Merciless, and it was not a bad fight.

Dizzy too easy to outplay, and it does take more than 1 burst combo to kill this build. I put a lot of time into the mitigation aspects, including finding out that nord damage mitigation applies before battle spirit, making it pretty dang good for swapping to medium imo. I am very used to running with no health. Maybe I'll find a video that's less 1vpotato.

I have no idea about no-cp with StamDK. I 100% trust your opinion on this. Also, Leapbot it really fun to me as I have never actually put time before this to PvP with one