PVP Relegation?

generalmyrick

Can we get a VIVEC A-LEAGUE and a B-LEAGUE?

a league = better rewards, etc.
b league = standard rewards, etc.

top 20% in b-league promoted to a-league each camp ending and bottom 20% in a-league demoted to b-league at end of each camp.

best idea ever!

discuss?

generalmyrick

^switch camp = lose your spot spend weeks/months getting it back.

VaranisArano

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Emothic

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

Beardimus

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Agree with the sentiment but not solution. Spreading PoP further is not a good idea. Just heard to Sotha or Shor things seem to mean more there - until the alliance switching cheating guilds descend and flip stuff. That's another issue tho

Beardimus

Emothic wrote: »

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

Not really true, a fair % of people bought Morrowind solely for BattleGrounds, and they create new maps each DLC.....

White wabbit

Emothic wrote: »

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

That's flawed as these PvPers buy the new dlc either for the new monster sets or the overland armor sets so Zos do make money from PvPers , so it's time Zos showed us some respect

vamp_emily

How do you determine who is in the top % of the B team, AP earnings?

VaranisArano

Beardimus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Agree with the sentiment but not solution. Spreading PoP further is not a good idea. Just heard to Sotha or Shor things seem to mean more there - until the alliance switching cheating guilds descend and flip stuff. That's another issue tho

I'm aware that spreading the population out rarely helps, which is why the OP's idea is flawed to begin with. But if we're talking about how to split up the population, I'd rather have the objective-minded people on my campaign because it makes for stiffer competition as my team goes for objectives and let the "I just wanna have fun doing my thing" people have fun and do their thing on their own server. A team and B team really doesn't have the same split there.

generalmyrick

VaranisArano wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Agree with the sentiment but not solution. Spreading PoP further is not a good idea. Just heard to Sotha or Shor things seem to mean more there - until the alliance switching cheating guilds descend and flip stuff. That's another issue tho

I'm aware that spreading the population out rarely helps, which is why the OP's idea is flawed to begin with. But if we're talking about how to split up the population, I'd rather have the objective-minded people on my campaign because it makes for stiffer competition as my team goes for objectives and let the "I just wanna have fun doing my thing" people have fun and do their thing on their own server. A team and B team really doesn't have the same split there.

hhahahaah

i can't i just cant!!! :-)

generalmyrick

vamp_emily wrote: »

How do you determine who is in the top % of the B team, AP earnings?

yes

VaranisArano

generalmyrick wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Agree with the sentiment but not solution. Spreading PoP further is not a good idea. Just heard to Sotha or Shor things seem to mean more there - until the alliance switching cheating guilds descend and flip stuff. That's another issue tho

I'm aware that spreading the population out rarely helps, which is why the OP's idea is flawed to begin with. But if we're talking about how to split up the population, I'd rather have the objective-minded people on my campaign because it makes for stiffer competition as my team goes for objectives and let the "I just wanna have fun doing my thing" people have fun and do their thing on their own server. A team and B team really doesn't have the same split there.

hhahahaah

i can't i just cant!!! :-)

Okay. I am curious though. Where do the organized raids and ball groups fit in your A and B team? I assumed the AP farming PUG raids would be B team due to lack of skill and organization, but if you are dividing this up by AP gains, I might be wrong?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see your vision for who makes up the A team and who makes up the B team.

Emothic

Beardimus wrote: »

Emothic wrote: »

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

Not really true, a fair % of people bought Morrowind solely for BattleGrounds, and they create new maps each DLC.....

I said PvP Campaigns, not Battlegrounds.

White wabbit wrote: »

Emothic wrote: »

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

That's flawed as these PvPers buy the new dlc either for the new monster sets or the overland armor sets so Zos do make money from PvPers , so it's time Zos showed us some respect

We only do that becuase of their still inability to keep armor sets balanced. Though I wouldn't be suprised if they counted us a PvE'rs if we're just grinding for armor sets to play in PvP.

Rickter

This is actually not a bad idea despite the jovial nature of it. But first i would like to point out that, this following quote is in fact true:

Emothic wrote: »

The developers doesn't care about PvP campaigns. Simply becuase they don't make any money from the PvP aspect of their game. Right now, Cyrodiil pvp is not viewed as marketable or profitable to ZOS higher-ups. Only PvE, DLC, and Crown Store. That's why you always see them working on those things, and never on PvP.

Now that we have that out of the way, lets talk about this:

VaranisArano wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can we get a campaign for all the people who want to focus on objectives and winning the campaign and another campaign for all the "I just wanna have good fights/gank/farm noobs/AP farm" folks?

Agree with the sentiment but not solution. Spreading PoP further is not a good idea. Just heard to Sotha or Shor things seem to mean more there - until the alliance switching cheating guilds descend and flip stuff. That's another issue tho

I'm aware that spreading the population out rarely helps, which is why the OP's idea is flawed to begin with. But if we're talking about how to split up the population, I'd rather have the objective-minded people on my campaign because it makes for stiffer competition as my team goes for objectives and let the "I just wanna have fun doing my thing" people have fun and do their thing on their own server. A team and B team really doesn't have the same split there.

I know a lot of “small scalers” or what is referred in here as “i just wanna have fun fights/gank/ap farm” players would love to dramatically change Cyrodiil layout. Things like, removing emperor mechanic, and downscaling the map size to accommodate their preferences. In this case, id actually support a campaign that has map objectives with current rewards, and a different campaign for the aforementioned with a different set of rewards to provide incentive in the absence of emperor mechanic.

Ultimately i will say this: further fragmenting the population in pvp is a bad idea all around. We already have cp and no cp. which has GOT to go btw. And small scalers need the objective based players to fulfill the enjoyment they seek. So at the end of the day, were all on the same team and this is mostly a hypothetical for fun discussion.

VaranisArano

Rickter wrote: »

I know a lot of “small scalers” or what is referred in here as “i just wanna have fun fights/gank/ap farm” players would love to dramatically change Cyrodiil layout. Things like, removing emperor mechanic, and downscaling the map size to accommodate their preferences. In this case, id actually support a campaign that has map objectives with current rewards, and a different campaign for the aforementioned with a different set of rewards to provide incentive in the absence of emperor mechanic.

Ultimately i will say this: further fragmenting the population in pvp is a bad idea all around. We already have cp and no cp. which has GOT to go btw. And small scalers need the objective based players to fulfill the enjoyment they seek. So at the end of the day, were all on the same team and this is mostly a hypothetical for fun discussion.

I generally agree with what you said here. I just wanted to point out that the "I just wanna have fun fights/gank/ap farm” players includes certain organized raids by their own admission, so I'm not knocking small-scalers. Its just a different mindset and one that's perfectly okay in Cyrodiil.

Though one area I will disagree is the removal of CP PVP. I far prefer CP PVP from my experience and I very much disagree with attempts to remove the entire type of PVP I prefer.

Feanor

I apply for my spot in Sotha Sil B then.

generalmyrick

its just a ladder system. it would stabilize competition and provide reasons for people to stay with one faction. promotion or relegation is dependent on your score...not your zerg's or zerglord. (don't get me wrong, i zerg some :-)

vamp_emily

I was thinking about this a little bit last night. Any type A or B league should not be based on AP gains.

I personally don't think a lot of AP farmers really benefit the alliance. I see it too many times that group leaders will push but not defend.

I would like to see a reward system that actually benefits players that care about the campaign and not just AP farming. I haven't put much thought into it but maybe create a point system where you get offensive and defensive points. Then you can base A and B league on points and time played.

For example if all you do is AP farm and not help take keeps or defend keeps, you will be put on B league. If you are a poor leader and all you do is take empty keeps and not defend then you will be placed on the B league. However, if you are a person that helps push and defend then you will be on the A league.

generalmyrick

awesome for you emily! thanks for exploring this idea!

i like the idea. like a new "ap" could be introduced...dap and oap? for buying things the ap could be counted the same but for deciding who is in what tier.

WOW @vamp_emily i just thought of the biggest cool part about your idea, since the tiers are based off who defends and attacks the top tier campaign would be more strategic and ap farmers would be in the low tier.

i wonder how much better the campaign rewards would have to be in the top tier for people to be attracted to it!??? :-)

Rickter

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I know a lot of “small scalers” or what is referred in here as “i just wanna have fun fights/gank/ap farm” players would love to dramatically change Cyrodiil layout. Things like, removing emperor mechanic, and downscaling the map size to accommodate their preferences. In this case, id actually support a campaign that has map objectives with current rewards, and a different campaign for the aforementioned with a different set of rewards to provide incentive in the absence of emperor mechanic.

Ultimately i will say this: further fragmenting the population in pvp is a bad idea all around. We already have cp and no cp. which has GOT to go btw. And small scalers need the objective based players to fulfill the enjoyment they seek. So at the end of the day, were all on the same team and this is mostly a hypothetical for fun discussion.

I generally agree with what you said here. I just wanted to point out that the "I just wanna have fun fights/gank/ap farm” players includes certain organized raids by their own admission, so I'm not knocking small-scalers. Its just a different mindset and one that's perfectly okay in Cyrodiil.

Though one area I will disagree is the removal of CP PVP. I far prefer CP PVP from my experience and I very much disagree with attempts to remove the entire type of PVP I prefer.

@VaranisArano I was saying to get rid of the split play styles in general. Though if you want to know my preference, i think noCP PvP needs to be removed entirely. The game is balanced around CP and CP is integral at this point so ZOS needs to focus on continued balancing attempts instead of splitting up player base.

WillhelmBlack

Lol can you imagine. Put all the top AP earners together and there'd be no PvP at all. Just keep switching.

B team would be smallscalers and casuals. That would be nice actually.

jaws343

vamp_emily wrote: »

I was thinking about this a little bit last night. Any type A or B league should not be based on AP gains.

I personally don't think a lot of AP farmers really benefit the alliance. I see it too many times that group leaders will push but not defend.

I would like to see a reward system that actually benefits players that care about the campaign and not just AP farming. I haven't put much thought into it but maybe create a point system where you get offensive and defensive points. Then you can base A and B league on points and time played.

For example if all you do is AP farm and not help take keeps or defend keeps, you will be put on B league. If you are a poor leader and all you do is take empty keeps and not defend then you will be placed on the B league. However, if you are a person that helps push and defend then you will be on the A league.

This poses some tactical disadvantages. For example, a group taking back keeps to keep one faction tied up at their gate is just as beneficial as a group pushing the EMP ring against the other faction. Just because Arrius or Drakelowe, for example, doesn't have enemy players in it, doesn't mean it is a less valuable objective. Attacking empty back keeps still draw off enemy players from the EMP ring to retake those keeps. A group rotating between an enemy alliance's home keeps is doing far more to help the campaign than the two zergs mindlessly dying at Ash or BRK for 3 hours.

Drdeath20

The gitguds dont want competition they want to dominate.

Thats why they all group up and noob hunt

NyassaV

WIth how ZOS does scoring I have little confidence in this idea. Though it isn't a bad one

SugaComa

generalmyrick wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

How do you determine who is in the top % of the B team, AP earnings?

yes

So what you mean is one for people who no life the game and another for those with a life outside of the game. Basically skill level has no place on the "league"

generalmyrick

...perhaps an alternative?

SugaComa

How about a 4 hour challenge mode

Reduced map size 4 hours to either accumulate the most points or whomever is emporer at the end of the four hours wins

You can't get the emp costume from this version but you get increased rewards for the win