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Buff nbs
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kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
Are we talking cloak for 1v1 or 1vX? 1v1 cloak is ok but I drop it completely for a damage shield. Damage shields are a lot stronger for 1v1. Cloak can be the strongest potential defensive ability when outnumbered, but you can also be killed while you are cloaked which is not the case for the other defensive abilities....
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).Edited by kadar on March 12, 2018 12:07AM0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
Are we talking cloak for 1v1 or 1vX? 1v1 cloak is ok but I drop it completely for a damage shield. Damage shields are a lot stronger for 1v1. Cloak can be the strongest potential defensive ability when outnumbered, but you can also be killed while you are cloaked which is not the case for the other defensive abilities....
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
Are we talking cloak for 1v1 or 1vX? 1v1 cloak is ok but I drop it completely for a damage shield. Damage shields are a lot stronger for 1v1. Cloak can be the strongest potential defensive ability when outnumbered, but you can also be killed while you are cloaked which is not the case for the other defensive abilities....
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
and wings aren't a hard counter to magblades. they do have melee skills that %100 ignore wings. Its only a question of ''are you prepared against it?'' Not to mention all the skills that just ignore wings completely, same thing does not apply to cloak. cloak just absorbs everything.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 12, 2018 1:36AM0 -
CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭Please be specific stam or mag.THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sigh... There is multiple topics on this already. NB's are not supposed to be tanky, your healing options isn't bad. Cloak got better this patch and your post is written like a bad tripadvisor review.
Cloak is exactly the same as it was last patchFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info2 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
Are we talking cloak for 1v1 or 1vX? 1v1 cloak is ok but I drop it completely for a damage shield. Damage shields are a lot stronger for 1v1. Cloak can be the strongest potential defensive ability when outnumbered, but you can also be killed while you are cloaked which is not the case for the other defensive abilities....
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
I didnt think that was the case, but I very well could be mistaken. Most the time I get revealed with detect pot I go down. But...I also stop cloaking because I know they can see me.0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Least survivable class in the game.
Bad healing, especially when stealthed.
Cloak is a horrible escape mechanism.
Dodge rolling get worse for each patch.
Damage is ok though.
good attempt, I give you 6 points and a bag of salt out of 10.
Certainly not more than a 3.5. At most a 4, but I don't really think so. TBH, I would rather say 1/10 and a pinch of salt below
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »but you can also be killed while you are cloaked which is not the case for the other defensive abilities.
The amount of times i´ve died to either shieldbreaker or infused oblivion dmg glyphs or both is enough to prove this statement to be wrong.
You can die through every defense mechanic at this point - except for heal ofc. There the only way is more red than green numbers.Edited by Derra on March 12, 2018 4:45PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Least survivable class in the game.
Bad healing, especially when stealthed.
Cloak is a horrible escape mechanism.
Dodge rolling get worse for each patch.
Damage is ok though.
good attempt, I give you 6 points and a bag of salt out of 10.
Certainly not more than a 3.5. At most a 4, but I don't really think so. TBH, I would rather say 1/10 and a pinch of salt below
the bag of salt equals to -5 points.0 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Only if you buff the other classes 2x as much (besides stamwarden).
Edit: Writing this as a nightblade main, so no hidden agendas
EU | PC0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Master_Kas
Watch out what you're saying mate, magblades are obviously overpowered and the best open world class HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!! How dare you even imply that magblade is anything but godlike??????0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
.
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
Cloak prevents projectiles already in the air from landing. Cloak does not negate AOE damage of any kind. Cloak suppresses DoTs only for the duration that the NB is invisible. One morph of Cloak grants crits for a brief period after use. Cloak does zero things to a player running a detect pots...and wings aren't a hard counter to magblades. they do have melee skills that %100 ignore wings. Its only a question of ''are you prepared against it?'' Not to mention all the skills that just ignore wings completely, same thing does not apply to cloak. cloak just absorbs everything.
Wings are a hard counter against any build/class that relies upon projectiles for damage. Unlike Cloak there is no way to remove wings from a player. You seem to be tunnel visioning on Wings vs. Cloak-- describing situations that favor Cloak to try and prove your point... Each class has a powerful off-resource ability(s) available to them. Which skill is most powerful depends entirely on the situation.
Edited by kadar on March 13, 2018 3:46AM0 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Master_Kas
Watch out what you're saying mate, magblades are obviously overpowered and the best open world class HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!! How dare you even imply that magblade is anything but godlike??????
LOL. I don't mind magblades so much. Just how disgustingly overpowered stamina NB is in openworld pvp compared to everything else.
People who claim magblade is in the same league as stamblade for solo pvp talks out of their arse. xDEdited by Master_Kas on March 13, 2018 5:31AMEU | PC6 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@The_Outsider
Mate...
Trying to lecture Thogard about basic skill mechanics is quite inappropriate. He's been around long enough to know everything you wrote... and to know it BETTER.
Read his post again, carefully.
His point about Cloak is that even if you get knocked out of Cloak by d-pots, you can still force miss attacks prior to that. It's extremely powerful. AoEs aren't cloakable, but they're avoidable, given the speed, snares and roots inherent to a nightblade.
Regarding wings, he didn't even mention Cloak here. He's just saying, Wings only hardcounter mNBs if those don't use Concealed or Force Pulse and suchlike. Which is the NB's fault, really. You need a destro skill for a staff build, so Pulse is not a wasted slot. And for DW magblades, Concealed is typically a good choice for the main spammable, but can be combined with Strife. There really is no sacrifice for mNBs to be made in order to counzer their supposed "hard counter".4 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
.
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
Cloak prevents projectiles already in the air from landing. Cloak does not negate AOE damage of any kind. Cloak suppresses DoTs only for the duration that the NB is invisible. One morph of Cloak grants crits for a brief period after use. Cloak does zero things to a player running a detect pots...and wings aren't a hard counter to magblades. they do have melee skills that %100 ignore wings. Its only a question of ''are you prepared against it?'' Not to mention all the skills that just ignore wings completely, same thing does not apply to cloak. cloak just absorbs everything.
Wings are a hard counter against any build/class that relies upon projectiles for damage. Unlike Cloak there is no way to remove wings from a player. You seem to be tunnel visioning on Wings vs. Cloak-- describing situations that favor Cloak to try and prove your point... Each class has a powerful off-resource ability(s) available to them. Which skill is most powerful depends entirely on the situation.@The_Outsider
Mate...
Trying to lecture Thogard about basic skill mechanics is quite inappropriate. He's been around long enough to know everything you wrote... and to know it BETTER.
Read his post again, carefully.
His point about Cloak is that even if you get knocked out of Cloak by d-pots, you can still force miss attacks prior to that. It's extremely powerful. AoEs aren't cloakable, but they're avoidable, given the speed, snares and roots inherent to a nightblade.
Regarding wings, he didn't even mention Cloak here. He's just saying, Wings only hardcounter mNBs if those don't use Concealed or Force Pulse and suchlike. Which is the NB's fault, really. You need a destro skill for a staff build, so Pulse is not a wasted slot. And for DW magblades, Concealed is typically a good choice for the main spammable, but can be combined with Strife. There really is no sacrifice for mNBs to be made in order to counzer their supposed "hard counter".
Thank you.
The forced “miss” when cloak is used (in between skill activation and dmg dealt) against someone who popped a detect hidden pot... it’s a mechanic that very very very few NBs know how to use correctly.
Edit:
But just so we’re clear, you can still use cloak to force your opponents to miss even if your opponent has popped a detect hidden pot.
If you combine the cloak spam with speed + kiting, even if your enemy uses a detect pots, all enemy gap closers will “‘miss” and all ranged attacks will miss, and all melee attacks will be out of range.
Edited by Thogard on March 13, 2018 8:25AMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Master_Kas wrote: »@Master_Kas
Watch out what you're saying mate, magblades are obviously overpowered and the best open world class HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!! How dare you even imply that magblade is anything but godlike??????
LOL. I don't mind magblades so much. Just how disgustingly overpowered stamina NB is in openworld pvp compared to everything else.
People who claim magblade is in the same league as stamblade for solo pvp talks out of their arse. xD
Different spec, different strength. Magblade is miles ahead in large scale and easily in the top 3 duel classes currently (personally I would rate them as the second strongest duel class right after petsorc). Most classes have some niche there they are strong at. What would you nerf on magblade if you make it as good as stamblade in solo pvp?
That said I think that a small Cloak nerf would make stamnb balanced and that a small Cripple nerf would make magblade balanced.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about making cloak a passive? Would go well with the NB theme of having passives where other classes need 2 bar slots.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know where do you find all these "detect player potions" users, after playing almost a week on my stamblade I have met just few of them, much more often I get detected by Radiant Magelight or streak. Also roll dodge and cloak combination does wonders for me. Stamblade can have all. Mobility, heals, stealth and thanks to 100% crits in cloak great healing! Killing a good stamblade can be harder than catching a magsorc, especialy when it goes to locations with a lots of LoS options like keeps, clifs, bridges, resources etc. Also burst potential of stamblade is amazing. Even when I get droped to execute range I used to use Soul Siphon to go up to 100% hp in 3s, while still being attacked (this is sick ulti)!TBH stamblade is imho the easiest class to play in PvP because it combines best escape and defence mechanics with best burst potential."We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sigh... There is multiple topics on this already. NB's are not supposed to be tanky, your healing options isn't bad. Cloak got better this patch and your post is written like a bad tripadvisor review.
there are a lot of classes not supposed to be tanky, but now all run in PvP heavy armour, to be tanky..............
healing as an Nb is fine as long as there is enough trash to kill, which is not the case in PvP, so yeah it could use some buffs there!
I don´t know where you see the improvement for cloak, must have overseen it, and that with 8 NB-chars, but any way, what else
and it is not written as a bad review, maybe yours?0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Is this a nerf NB thread???
Its not a nerf Sorc thread, and there’s only really one other possibility in these forums.
Two classes lost their counter to nightblade this patch, you’re going to hear about it...2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Is this a nerf NB thread???
Its not a nerf Sorc thread, and there’s only really one other possibility in these forums.
Two classes lost their counter to nightblade this patch, you’re going to hear about it...
What was the counters I'm just curious I believe one is birds, but I would cloak those anyway they really only hurt when you were getting zerged down. I can't seem to think of what another counter would've been. What else changed?2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Regarding wings, he didn't even mention Cloak here. He's just saying, Wings only hardcounter mNBs if those don't use Concealed or Force Pulse and suchlike. Which is the NB's fault, really. You need a destro skill for a staff build, so Pulse is not a wasted slot. And for DW magblades, Concealed is typically a good choice for the main spammable, but can be combined with Strife. There really is no sacrifice for mNBs to be made in order to counzer their supposed "hard counter".
There are better destro skills than Force Pulse for a magblade, so taking it just to counter wings IS a trade-off. Same applies to Concealed Weapon on Destro/Resto-Magblade. "No need to make sacrifices" is simply not true.
And imo it doesn't make sense to compare wings and cloak, because both skills don't have much in common and fulfill completely different purposes. Cloak is obviously the better escape/reset skill, and in open world pvp i'd take it any time over wings, but unlike wings it doesn't allow you to attack and defend at the same time. A nb who relies on cloak as defense is 100% vulnerable as soon it attacks.thankyourat wrote: »The_Protagonist wrote: »Is this a nerf NB thread???
Its not a nerf Sorc thread, and there’s only really one other possibility in these forums.
Two classes lost their counter to nightblade this patch, you’re going to hear about it...
What was the counters I'm just curious I believe one is birds, but I would cloak those anyway they really only hurt when you were getting zerged down. I can't seem to think of what another counter would've been. What else changed?
Power Lash became dodgeable too, which is probably the second "lost" counter he is taking about. Could also be the nerf to Soul Assault.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
.
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
Cloak prevents projectiles already in the air from landing. Cloak does not negate AOE damage of any kind. Cloak suppresses DoTs only for the duration that the NB is invisible. One morph of Cloak grants crits for a brief period after use. Cloak does zero things to a player running a detect pots...and wings aren't a hard counter to magblades. they do have melee skills that %100 ignore wings. Its only a question of ''are you prepared against it?'' Not to mention all the skills that just ignore wings completely, same thing does not apply to cloak. cloak just absorbs everything.
Wings are a hard counter against any build/class that relies upon projectiles for damage. Unlike Cloak there is no way to remove wings from a player. You seem to be tunnel visioning on Wings vs. Cloak-- describing situations that favor Cloak to try and prove your point... Each class has a powerful off-resource ability(s) available to them. Which skill is most powerful depends entirely on the situation.
nope, I don't tunnel vision, you are the one tunnel visioning here,
and let me explain why.
Literally everybody in cyrodiil carries a skill or potion to counter cloak..
Because they have to. (Im excluding potatoes or zerglings here obviously)
The same is usually not the case for wings because most ranged abilities already ignore it.
IF you build a pure destro magblade build with zero melee abilities that is your issue for not preparing.
I am sure you probably enjoy typing L2P to people complaining about cloak, this is exactly the same situation,
except wings are not near useful as cloak,thanfully now last 6 seconds but still has a projectile limit, and much more situational, costy. Which is why you will see stamblades using cloak all the time but almost never, a stamDks using wings.
Even comparing something OP like cloak to the 200 times nerfed wings is dumb, but you asked to dumb down the discussion, so here you have it.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 13, 2018 4:03PM2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »nerf sorc
wait... nerf NB
Got it. We are nerfing DK and templar again.thankyourat wrote: »I don't really think nightblade is a lot better than other classes overall. it is about time for the stun from incap to be removed though
Removing the stun won't do much. It doesn't affect the CC immune or the blocking. Fear exists and is a staple on an NB bar. The reason NB is better is because of how good cloak is compared to everything else, no numerical limits, dot supression, dots and heals crit. The counters are more discreet. Mark and detect pots really the only ones truely hurting, since AoEs+magelight is costly and can be avoided.
Cloak is like old wings on roids.
Not saying nerf, but some changes and buffs to other classes are in order.
.
Yeh, Cloak is more annoying (to fight against) than it is powerful. It's functioning properly now (I think?) which is why it's use is becoming more common. It's most effective use is a simple misdirect instead of any actual damage mitigation.
Each class has a very powerful use for their off resource pool. I think it would be difficult to argue that Cloak is more powerful than DK wings, Warden sheild/absorby thing, Dark Deal, Ritual, ect. Each class tool is extremely powerful in certain situations. (e.g. my mageblade cannot win against a DK or Warden with enough regen to have good uptime on their reflect/absorbs. It's a simple impossibility aka, hard counter).
It would be very easy to argue that. Cloak negates all damage and guarantees a crit. Those others only work for a specific damage type (projectiles) which cloak also works equally well for...
If a mag nb wants to spam cloak it can even cloak cancel all attacks from a character that had used a defect pot.
Cloak prevents projectiles already in the air from landing. Cloak does not negate AOE damage of any kind. Cloak suppresses DoTs only for the duration that the NB is invisible. One morph of Cloak grants crits for a brief period after use. Cloak does zero things to a player running a detect pots...and wings aren't a hard counter to magblades. they do have melee skills that %100 ignore wings. Its only a question of ''are you prepared against it?'' Not to mention all the skills that just ignore wings completely, same thing does not apply to cloak. cloak just absorbs everything.
Wings are a hard counter against any build/class that relies upon projectiles for damage. Unlike Cloak there is no way to remove wings from a player. You seem to be tunnel visioning on Wings vs. Cloak-- describing situations that favor Cloak to try and prove your point... Each class has a powerful off-resource ability(s) available to them. Which skill is most powerful depends entirely on the situation.
nope, I don't tunnel vision, you are the one tunnel visioning here,
and let me explain why.
Literally everybody in cyrodiil carries a skill or potion to counter cloak..
Because they have to. (Im excluding potatoes or zerglings here obviously)
The same is usually not the case for wings because most ranged abilities already ignore it.
IF you build a pure destro magblade build with zero melee abilities that is your issue for not preparing.
I am sure you probably enjoy typing L2P to people complaining about cloak, this is exactly the same situation,
except wings are not near useful as cloak,thanfully now last 6 seconds but still has a projectile limit, and much more situational, costy. Which is why you will see stamblades using cloak all the time but almost never, a stamDks using wings.
Even comparing something OP like cloak to the 200 times nerfed wings is dumb, but you asked to dumb down the discussion, so here you have it.
Most ranged abilty ignore wings ? There is force pusle, what are the others (I really don't know) ?
Wings are OP in a way and completly useless in the other way.
WIngs are OP in duel agaisnt destro/resto magblade and they shoudn't need to use something to counter that wings, in the other side, wings are totaly useless in PvP.
Wings need to be reworked again to make them less OP agaisnt a single ennemy and more usefull agaisnt groups.
New wings : last 4s and reflect 3 projectiles per ennemy.
it make them less OP versus full projectile builds and make them very good against group.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ria, I specifically mentioned DW NBs for Concealed. They usually run that skill as their spammable.
And for destro/resto (staff) NBs, you need one destruction skill on your main bar. You have three that make sense.
Elemental Drain really only increases your damage against heavy armor. You don't need the sustain thanks to Siphoning, and you should already have enough penetration for la/ma, thanks to Concentration.
Reach as a ranged CC. Okay. It can be dodged, blocked, reflected. Fear is best CC in game and triggers passives. Incap stuns. Soul Harvest is short-range. Both are best ultimate in game. Reach really isn't essential, just a bonus.
Leaves us with Force Pulse, the one skill that prevents being hardcountered. Yeah...
No personal offense, but your post highlights exactly what's wrong with so many NB players. Not all, not necessarily you, but many.
They're simply greedy. Instead of thinking about building versatile and dealing with counters, they want every single OP move and passive, and when something messes them up, they scream for nerfs instead of getting good.4
