What Is Your Opinion on Defile?

Tasear

It is fine, because...

brandonv516 wrote: »

It's needs to be reworked for non-CP. Heals already take a massive hit in non-CP unless you spec as a healer.

Maybe a 3-5s cooldown on defiling a target after that target has been recently purged.

PvP needs more real healers

dodgehopper_ESO

Other. (Please explain.)

Defiling health regeneration is stupid. Health regeneration is already nerfed without adding to it.

Skander

Other. (Please explain.)

itscompton wrote: »

it should also reduce shield strength by the same amount it reduces healing.

Lol no. Are you mad, just becouse your easy cloacky Nb doesn't have playbzck when you fail to gank, this doesn't mean you must nerf who doesn't want to zerg

Ragnarock41

It should be nerfed, because...

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr defile is needed cus healbots overperform.

Why not nerf the damn heal bots then?

Becouse healbots have no damage, literally, they can't kill you.
And if you get killed by a healbot, he's probably not a healbot...or you f up big time

you don't even get the point do you?

''they can't kill people so its balanced.''

Okay, I can see that you clearly need me to explain this to you piece by piece, so I will do it.

Lets have a pvp raid, have a tanky Dk and call him zergbad, and give him a healer.

And now lets try to kill zergbad.

managed to get him to execute range? NOPE, BOL'd to max hp by an immortal templar healer.

Put some bleeds on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put defiles on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put dots on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put major fracture on him? NOPE, cleansed.

dawnbreaker him? you guessed it, that is also CLEANSED.

Oh so how do we kill zergbad then?

Don't you worry, we have befoul+defile!!!

But wait, what do we do if the zergbad decides to use befoul+defile?

By having a healbot that uses cleanse!

IF you still haven't seen the problem in this example you just can't be helped.

well um.. ignore the tank, stack cc and dps on the templar.. thought everyone knew that by now

another person didn't get the point. befoul exists to counter that tank with a healbot, but it counters everybody else instead.

yep you're right I don't get it, that's why there are so many bow users spamming poison injection, why disease enchants exist and NB's, all tank hunters..

There are so many bow users with poison injection because other bow skills are pure garbage in PvP, also poison inject is an execute which makes it so important for both pvp and pve. and there are tons of NBs because obviously NB is the meta class in PvP. but knowing that you're a massive troll I should probably stop wasting my time with you.

Goshua

It is fine, because...

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr defile is needed cus healbots overperform.

Why not nerf the damn heal bots then?

Becouse healbots have no damage, literally, they can't kill you.
And if you get killed by a healbot, he's probably not a healbot...or you f up big time

you don't even get the point do you?

''they can't kill people so its balanced.''

Okay, I can see that you clearly need me to explain this to you piece by piece, so I will do it.

Lets have a pvp raid, have a tanky Dk and call him zergbad, and give him a healer.

And now lets try to kill zergbad.

managed to get him to execute range? NOPE, BOL'd to max hp by an immortal templar healer.

Put some bleeds on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put defiles on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put dots on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put major fracture on him? NOPE, cleansed.

dawnbreaker him? you guessed it, that is also CLEANSED.

Oh so how do we kill zergbad then?

Don't you worry, we have befoul+defile!!!

But wait, what do we do if the zergbad decides to use befoul+defile?

By having a healbot that uses cleanse!

IF you still haven't seen the problem in this example you just can't be helped.

well um.. ignore the tank, stack cc and dps on the templar.. thought everyone knew that by now

another person didn't get the point. befoul exists to counter that tank with a healbot, but it counters everybody else instead.

yep you're right I don't get it, that's why there are so many bow users spamming poison injection, why disease enchants exist and NB's, all tank hunters..

There are so many bow users with poison injection because other bow skills are pure garbage in PvP, also poison inject is an execute which makes it so important for both pvp and pve. and there are tons of NBs because obviously NB is the meta class in PvP. but knowing that you're a massive troll I should probably stop wasting my time with you.

I stated the wrong skill sorry. I meant Lethal Arrow (defile).

DeadlyRecluse

Befoul is kinda dumb, especially in the green tree rather than blue. It's an offensive star.

Defile is needed, but Durok's and Fasallas need to be reexamined. Durok's gets people all bothered, but honestly, imo fasallas is just as bad. I shouldn't have my healing cut just by being in the area of a set of gear--and it keeps working EVEN IF THE WEARER IS DEAD.

usmcjdking

Defiles were fine when there were larger/longer/more sources of major mending.

wolfxspice

It is fine, because...

defile is kinda requirement to kill some classes, their probably should be some kind of limit on how much you can be defiled tough, i'v seen some nightblades running around in fasalas and duraks bane, and they still hit pretty hard, besides that though it seems fine.

Ihatenightblades

I say tone it down a bit. Being able to cause 75% heal reduction on a enemy is just insane. Max heal debuff should be 25 percent and

kadar

It is fine, because...

Time To Kill is really high atm. Making Defile less effective makes TTK even longer. The only thing worse than a 1 shot meta is a tank meta. Tanks fighting tanks is absolutely and without question the most boring thing, IMO.

Obviously, as with everything, the best option is probably a balance. We don't want TTK to be to low or too high. I feel like we have a fairly good in-between right now. I wouldn't reduce Defile's effectiveness because it would increase TTK and slow the pace of PVP.

GeorgeBlack

All CP is bad

itscompton

It should be buffed, because...

Skander wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

it should also reduce shield strength by the same amount it reduces healing.

Lol no. Are you mad, just becouse your easy cloacky Nb doesn't have playbzck when you fail to gank, this doesn't mean you must nerf who doesn't want to zerg

I play solo on my Magtemp 95% of the time I'm in Cyrodiil. People complain about Temps hitting one button and healing for 12-15K but a Sorc putting up a shield (for half the cost of BoL/HtD) is basically the same; so if the very common debuff defile can reduce my crit heals to 6-7K why shouldn't Sorcs have to contend with having a similar counter? Make them use a set/CP for defense, just like every other class does, instead of being able to go full offense in their build.

oMrRust

It is fine, because...

It works just fine as it is and it's amazing in my opinion.
so great against those pure tanks

bottleofsyrup

It should be nerfed, because...

Only nerf it if overtuned healing is nerfed with it. People wouldn't feel the need to stack so heavily into defile if you didn't have Magplars who can heal their entire health bar with one BoL and Wardens who have all kinds of strong heals. Defiles are the only counter to those builds at the moment, but unfortunately hurt classes with crap healing like Stamplar and Stamblade.

Ch4mpTW

Other. (Please explain.)

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Only nerf it if overtuned healing is nerfed with it. People wouldn't feel the need to stack so heavily into defile if you didn't have Magplars who can heal their entire health bar with one BoL and Wardens who have all kinds of strong heals. Defiles are the only counter to those builds at the moment, but unfortunately hurt classes with crap healing like Stamplar and Stamblade.

N’ah. It’s rough to experience across the board. As a MagDK, it is extremely troubling once you get defiled. And pretty much you’re screwed, unless you can disengage or mitigate the damage until it ends. To go up against a “perma-defile” build, is to essentially insta-gib yourself. It’s that simple. You don’t win against someone wearing Durok’s as a MagDK. Period. You just don’t.

WillhelmBlack

It should be nerfed, because...

itscompton wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

it is buffed by CP. If it wasn’t, it would be absolutely fine.

You do realize that when you get to 10-15 percent in that CP tree that's a percent of the 30%, not full extra percent points on top of it. So putting the points in to get to 10% gives you a total Debuff of 33% not 40% and putting the points in to get to 15% gets you up to 34.5%. That's a lot of CP to use for an extra 3-4.5 percent debuff.

2 of my characters have just major defile stacked over 44%. Apply minor and its closer to 50%, with 100% uptime, do you not think that's slightly overpowered?

Rainraven

Other. (Please explain.)

Some of the sets need to be toned down. Way down. Defile being strong is ok, constant uptime provided by clothes not so much.

WillhelmBlack

It should be nerfed, because...

usmcjdking wrote: »

Defiles were fine when there were larger/longer/more sources of major mending.

Major Mending can **** off, I never want that to rear it's ugly head ever again.

Sharee

Other. (Please explain.)

I don't think the problem is defile. The problem is that there is too big a gap between the setups capable of extreme healing (against whom you need extreme defile to even have a chance) and normal setups (which get completely screwed by the same defile).

Maybe we should first look at closing that gap, and then re-evaluate the need for defiles.

ofSunhold

Other. (Please explain.)

Goshua wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

hurr durr defile is needed cus healbots overperform.

Why not nerf the damn heal bots then?

Becouse healbots have no damage, literally, they can't kill you.
And if you get killed by a healbot, he's probably not a healbot...or you f up big time

you don't even get the point do you?

''they can't kill people so its balanced.''

Okay, I can see that you clearly need me to explain this to you piece by piece, so I will do it.

Lets have a pvp raid, have a tanky Dk and call him zergbad, and give him a healer.

And now lets try to kill zergbad.

managed to get him to execute range? NOPE, BOL'd to max hp by an immortal templar healer.

Put some bleeds on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put defiles on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put dots on him? NOPE, cleansed.

Put major fracture on him? NOPE, cleansed.

dawnbreaker him? you guessed it, that is also CLEANSED.

Oh so how do we kill zergbad then?

Don't you worry, we have befoul+defile!!!

But wait, what do we do if the zergbad decides to use befoul+defile?

By having a healbot that uses cleanse!

IF you still haven't seen the problem in this example you just can't be helped.

well um.. ignore the tank, stack cc and dps on the templar.. thought everyone knew that by now

another person didn't get the point. befoul exists to counter that tank with a healbot, but it counters everybody else instead.

yep you're right I don't get it, that's why there are so many bow users spamming poison injection, why disease enchants exist and NB's, all tank hunters..

I run an oblivion enchant on my front bar specifically because those super-tanky builds can't resist that damage. I wind up hitting everybody else I fight with it too, but it's not there for them. I've thought about running knight slayer - same reason, same outcome. Poisons may be the answer, since they're easier to switch out between fights, I just don't like poisons.

I meant Lethal Arrow rather than poison injection previously as it majorly defiles

Disease (not poison) is the heal debuff and its an enchant.

Yes, I 'm sorry I wasn't clearer about my point, which was this: defile is a heavy-hitting tool made necessary by certain builds, the problem being that it also hits everybody else too. So no, those NBs may not be building for defile to be "tank hunters" but they're going to need it for that reason at some point. Same as my oblivion enchant. Same as some of the people running cost poisons. We've been driven to extremes that aren't all the time necessary by the defensive meta, because they are necessary to counter that. Defile is not the problem.

itscompton

It should be buffed, because...

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

it is buffed by CP. If it wasn’t, it would be absolutely fine.

You do realize that when you get to 10-15 percent in that CP tree that's a percent of the 30%, not full extra percent points on top of it. So putting the points in to get to 10% gives you a total Debuff of 33% not 40% and putting the points in to get to 15% gets you up to 34.5%. That's a lot of CP to use for an extra 3-4.5 percent debuff.

2 of my characters have just major defile stacked over 44%. Apply minor and its closer to 50%, with 100% uptime, do you not think that's slightly overpowered?

I don't really believe you can get major defile up to 44%. I think you misunderstand how the CP affects the debuff. If you have it at 14% it's not 30% plus 14%, it adds 14% of 30% to the debuff so you're actually probably around 34.3%. So I was just trying to correct what I believe to be your false notion of how the CP works. But my original answer to the poll was somewhat flippant and a bit misleading because while I do think shields should have a debuff too I actually think being able to stack major and minor defile with the CP up to around 54% is way too strong considering it's original purpose was to counter major mending/major vitality both of which are much harder to get than they used to be.

I actually started a thread about this last August in which I said:

I recently came back after 7 months off so I was looking through the ESO fextralife wiki at sets and abilities to catch up and it really struck me how common the Major Defile debuff is in the game. Considering it's opposite buff Major Mending is now incredibly hard to get/keep up for most classes, with only a fully charged resto attack granting it for a mere 3 seconds on Temp, Sorcs and NB's, I think they should either make Major Mending easier to get and/or maintain again or reduce the number of abilities and sets that apply Major Defile. I'll freely admit I'm saying this from the point of view of a MagTemp in PvP. Not only do I have to contend with my survivability being tied to reacting by healing after taking huge damage bursts (on a laggy server to boot) I'm constantly having my healing debuffed by 30-40% from gear set bonuses, poisons, heavy attacks, class abilities and weapon abilities. Sure I can spam cleanse constantly to remove the healing Debuffs but there are so many sources and no period of immunity so I'm debuffed again almost as soon as I've hit the button which leaves me no time to do anything else and drains magic pretty quickly. It just seems to me the prevalence of healing debuffs, most specifically Major Defile, was a necessary counter from a time when Templars had Major Mending as a passive but as that's not the case anymore it really hurts us in PvP

WillhelmBlack

It should be nerfed, because...

itscompton wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

it is buffed by CP. If it wasn’t, it would be absolutely fine.

You do realize that when you get to 10-15 percent in that CP tree that's a percent of the 30%, not full extra percent points on top of it. So putting the points in to get to 10% gives you a total Debuff of 33% not 40% and putting the points in to get to 15% gets you up to 34.5%. That's a lot of CP to use for an extra 3-4.5 percent debuff.

2 of my characters have just major defile stacked over 44%. Apply minor and its closer to 50%, with 100% uptime, do you not think that's slightly overpowered?

I don't really believe you can get major defile up to 44%. I think you misunderstand how the CP affects the debuff. If you have it at 14% it's not 30% plus 14%, it adds 14% of 30% to the debuff so you're actually probably around 34.3%. So I was just trying to correct what I believe to be your false notion of how the CP works. But my original answer to the poll was somewhat flippant and a bit misleading because while I do think shields should have a debuff too I actually think being able to stack major and minor defile with the CP up to around 54% is way too strong considering it's original purpose was to counter major mending/major vitality both of which are much harder to get than they used to be.

I actually started a thread about this last August in which I said:

I recently came back after 7 months off so I was looking through the ESO fextralife wiki at sets and abilities to catch up and it really struck me how common the Major Defile debuff is in the game. Considering it's opposite buff Major Mending is now incredibly hard to get/keep up for most classes, with only a fully charged resto attack granting it for a mere 3 seconds on Temp, Sorcs and NB's, I think they should either make Major Mending easier to get and/or maintain again or reduce the number of abilities and sets that apply Major Defile. I'll freely admit I'm saying this from the point of view of a MagTemp in PvP. Not only do I have to contend with my survivability being tied to reacting by healing after taking huge damage bursts (on a laggy server to boot) I'm constantly having my healing debuffed by 30-40% from gear set bonuses, poisons, heavy attacks, class abilities and weapon abilities. Sure I can spam cleanse constantly to remove the healing Debuffs but there are so many sources and no period of immunity so I'm debuffed again almost as soon as I've hit the button which leaves me no time to do anything else and drains magic pretty quickly. It just seems to me the prevalence of healing debuffs, most specifically Major Defile, was a necessary counter from a time when Templars had Major Mending as a passive but as that's not the case anymore it really hurts us in PvP

Well it's real easy to see yourself, put points into Befoul in CP, press confirm. Look at tooltip of a defile skill and it will show you the actual %, it's a lot for a few points. Now up Befoul to maximum and look at tooltip again and see how high it actually scales.

Skander

Other. (Please explain.)

The combination of Defile+ High skill cost is daunting. One of those should be lowered

Dojohoda

It is fine, because...

It's a counter as others have stated.

It's effectiveness against the plague of ball groups depends on whether or not the dedicated purgers are in group. I enjoy seeing those groups wrecked because the game performance goes in the trash when those tightly grouped blobs of button pushers are nearby. Focus the templars and purgers first.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

It is fine, because...

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

What´s defile?

De piece of paper you store in de file cabinet.

Animus-ESO

Other. (Please explain.)

Defile is fine, The befoul CP is the problem. They need to change how well it scales or move it to the blue CP being that It is an offensive stat. That would make players choose between more defile or damage but not both. The only thing defiles shut down is every stam build with out a purge. People keep arguing that it shuts down heal bots but 90% of the time they will just purge the defile so that argument is ***.

Ch4mpTW

Other. (Please explain.)

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

What´s defile?

De piece of paper you store in de file cabinet.

I liked that.

Mayrael

It is fine, because...

... every time ZOS "tweaks" something they make it OP or total garbage.

Ch4mpTW

Other. (Please explain.)

Mayrael wrote: »

... every time ZOS "tweaks" something they make it OP or total garbage.

Facts! Look at what ZOS did to MagPlars, when they called themselves “tweaking them”. Or recently in the case of DK’s Fossilize.

Nyladreas

Other. (Please explain.)

It's fine however I'd make it reduce a small portion of shields as well (1/4 or even 1/5 of the normal value), as that's technically an overheal mechanic. AND allow for some sort of PvE use as well... Increase damage taken or something. But ehh that's a detail.

And why? You're pretty much *** without defile when facing most classes in PvP.