An Idea : Guild Skills for Unarmed (Martial Arts)? + more features for Unarmed

mhc9840

Just came up to my mind : How about Guild Skills for Unarmed?
Ideas for Unarmed Class Skill & Weapon Skills have been talked a lot in this forum, but not many talk about Guild Skill Line.


There are lore information about Dunmer Martial Arts mentioned in Morrowind dialogues, Temple of the Two-Moons Dance that exist in-game, with NPCs training Khajiit Martial Arts, Whispering Fang style mentioned in Skyrim dialogues, etc. Hand-to-Hand Martial Arts definitely exist in Elder Scrolls universe.
Then perhaps, there could be Martial Arts Guild in ESO?

1. Aldmeri Dominion : Temple of Khajiit Monks practicing the Khajiit Hand-to-Hand Fighting Style.
2. Daggerfall Covenant : Redguard order practicing Hand-to-Hand martial arts? Orc Stronghold that values pure Unarmed strength?
3. Ebonheart Pact : A small clan of Dunmer House practicing old Martial Arts tradition.

Such would not be so off-lore for Elder Scrolls. They fit into the game.


Add more quests doing brawls. Tavern Fights. Martial Arts matches. Make Guild headquarters into a Boxing Ring. Or bring back the Arena (locations) and add brawl rings into them.
There's already a quest doing a brawl with Naryu - they could make use of the feature more. Perhaps change existing quests a bit too. Like the duel with Nords in Ebonheart. Right now it's a drunken fight...with weapons. Change that into Drunken Brawls!


As for the skill Line it could be just Passive Skills like DB & TG, or a fleshed-out skill line with both Active and Passive - like the three non-dlc guilds.
You can easily find ideas for Unarmed Skills in the forums : Kicks, grabs, etc. Passive Skills that increase Weapon/Spell Damage when not using weapons. You can find a lot.
Now that I think of it, there's the Argonian pirate Iron-Heel at Blackheart Haven who kicks you off the cliff. With a actual kick animation!


But along with those, some quality-of-life patches could be nice too. Some I could think of are :

1. Skill Bar Swap with Unarmed. Honestly I can't see the reason why not.
2. Better Animation? It's a bit slower compared to 1H swings. Make them a bit faster perhaps (not too fast - just match it with 1H speed I guess). Kicks too maybe - as said, the animation exists already.


What do you think of the ideas?

Aesthier

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4914679#Comment_4914679

josiahva

Realistically speaking....punch someone wearing heavy armor and see exactly how that goes for you, aside from throws, I dont think there is a single thing a martial artist could do to hurt a knight in full plate mail, and throwing someone around wearing 200lbs of steel is no easy feat. Facing a knight, the only thing a black belt could really do is wait for him to attack and use his momentum against him. That being said, there is nothing realistic about ESO anyway.

Nestor

josiahva wrote: »

Realistically speaking....punch someone wearing heavy armor and see exactly how that goes for you, aside from throws, I dont think there is a single thing a martial artist could do to hurt a knight in full plate mail, and throwing someone around wearing 200lbs of steel is no easy feat. Facing a knight, the only thing a black belt could really do is wait for him to attack and use his momentum against him. That being said, there is nothing realistic about ESO anyway.

As you say, use the momentum against them, get them up ended in the air, have them land on their head, they are not getting up soon, or ever.

Also, it's not Unarmed but really Hand to Hand in TES. See Morrowind. So they could be using Brass Knuckles, or Sesta's (IIRC) or Spiked Gauntlets, Throwing Stars/Knives, Billy Clubs, Truncheons and other similar instruments of mayhem. Lots of ways to augment the power of the Fist or Hand in combat.

TheShadowScout

josiahva wrote: »

Realistically speaking....punch someone wearing heavy armor and see exactly how that goes for you, aside from throws, I dont think there is a single thing a martial artist could do to hurt a knight in full plate mail, and throwing someone around wearing 200lbs of steel is no easy feat.

...and that was a consideration of mine as well when I made up my idea for a "brawling" weapon skill line...

Still, there are quite a few things that are possible, even against a knight in heavy armor. Joint locks for example - just because he has a tough shell would not mean his joins had much protection against that sort of thing, right? Or the good old leg sweep - time it right, and you can drop mister knight to the ground (which will not be as effective as turning over a turtoise, but still, many a unhorsed knight in medieval battles was dragged to the ground by unwashed armsmen and either captured for ransom or killed with a thin blade through the joints in their armor). Same for other "takedown" style wrestling moves, from drop kick to lariat to whatever... And if your unarmed attacker is strong enough, just grasping the helmet and giving it a good twist can really mess up a knight (unless they are wearing late medieval ages full plate, and so far tamriel seems more dark ages to early medieval in style from what I see...)

But basically, you are correct that unarmed combat against armored opponents will be less "kung fu" and more... monday night wrestling. Less punching, more grappling.

By the way... plate armor was generally more along the line of 30-60 lbs, maybe 90 lbs tops if you add all the other parts as well... so, no more trouble then getting into a judo bout with a fat guy, really...

Sixty5

you ever done unarmed duels?

I'd highly recommend them.

Make up your own set of rules about what if any abilities are allowed to be used, and get to punching each other in the face.

For added spiciness, you can add in a clause of not wearing armour either.

Lynx7386

I want to see unarmed abilities as a supplemental set of skills to use in conjunction with weapons.

I.e. you're wielding a 2hander or dual wielding or using a bow or staff or shield, and you can slot martial arts skills that do things like leg sweep to knock down nearby enemies, shoulder rush to charge and knock down enemies in a line, disarm to reduce enemy damage dealt (major maim), etc.

These abilities are there to add utility to other weapons, and are not a weapon type or useful for damage on their own.

ankhor8

josiahva wrote: »

Realistically speaking....punch someone wearing heavy armor and see exactly how that goes for you, aside from throws, I dont think there is a single thing a martial artist could do to hurt a knight in full plate mail, and throwing someone around wearing 200lbs of steel is no easy feat. Facing a knight, the only thing a black belt could really do is wait for him to attack and use his momentum against him. That being said, there is nothing realistic about ESO anyway.

I have seen the advanced, strike objects with their hands, while the results of the strike are visible beyond the point of contact. Many things are possible, few things are probable.
I have invested in the unarmed skill line in every installment of Tamriel since E.S. 3. I strongly desire to fight with my body instead of external objects. An additional skill line seems the most wise.
Currently, i use my shield and hammer to emulate blunt force damage.

neverwalk

bare-knuckle Fight Club

Jim_Pipp

I would love both an Unarmed and an Unarmoured skill line in an ideal world.

I would be happy if we just got a new dagger motif that was very small, invisible or just knuckledusters. The dual wield animations are close enough to an unarmed style for me, and it would be much easier to implement than a whole new skill line.

AchlysNox

josiahva wrote: »

Realistically speaking....punch someone wearing heavy armor and see exactly how that goes for you, aside from throws, I dont think there is a single thing a martial artist could do to hurt a knight in full plate mail, and throwing someone around wearing 200lbs of steel is no easy feat. Facing a knight, the only thing a black belt could really do is wait for him to attack and use his momentum against him. That being said, there is nothing realistic about ESO anyway.

I'd love to see more realism in ESO, obviously within the frame-work of the fantasy universe. Realism leads to immersion which to me is the single most important aspect of an MMO. Realism in the context of a fantasy game doesn't mean you can't have magic or dragons, it simply means that there's an agreed upon set of rules that governs how the world works and as long as things behave according to the rules, immersion stays intact. As an example, when my character jumps up into the air, he tends to fall back down onto the ground, which leads me to assume that Tamriel is subject to the laws of gravity, so every time my character goes for a leisurely swim whilst wearing heavy armor, immersion breaks down while I wonder why my character isn't drowning at the bottom of the lake.

It's always going to be a balancing act between realism/immersion and game-play, and I can respect that a large portion of the player base finds enjoyment in the skill-requirement of things like animation cancelling, so even though they're immersion breakers I don't particularly mind that we have animation cancelling. On the other hand whenever my character meets an immortal town guard that somehow knows that I just stole an apple in a town on the other side of Tamriel, that seems to me a system where the game-play itself is bad whilst also breaking immersion.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

I wouldn't mind IF lore based and IF skill lines were exclusive. The game is slowly moving towards the Oblivion model were you could 100 everything. I'd prefer something more like the Fallout 3 progression model: make up your mind, you can't be all.

Mahabahabtha

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.

Enslaved

If Nords in ESO would at all be similar to Scandinavian ppl of old, they would also practice hand to hand combat with lot of throws, grappling and similar.