Leveling rewards: fair for new players, but...

DieAlteHexe

smacky wrote: »

I'm not being smart @DieAlteHexe but your comment was pretty blunt, it didn't offer any context is what I mean to say.

As I said, not being smart, just explaining my reason for misunderstanding you.

No worries, appreciate the opinion.

smacky

I just love the amount of effort that went into working out the crown cost for this, when it would have been less effort to simply read the patch notes

Acrolas

There's no race to level a new character unless you want to choose a specific reward from the Flame crate season with gems.

Otherwise, just wait until you want to level a new character. Might be this year. Might be next year. I don't know why grown adults are getting so bent out of shape over a few small rewards that aren't going away any time soon.

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

what Zenimax owes its players

Zenimax, Bethesda, ZOS... none of them owe us anything.

ZeroXFF

And don't forget the Morrowind skill point that older characters still don't have. Veteran players are left behind what seems like every patch.

smacky

I laugh everytime I see the complaints about a single skillpoint.

The morrowind skillpoint.

If you create a new character, (you have to have morrowind) and skip the tutorial, you can go back and do it at any time to get the skillpoint there. Something that people who don;t have morrowind can't do, hopefully that gives some of you a sense of justice.

And Yes, I do have a character that missed out on the dreaded morrowind skillpoint.

Darkestnght

In my opinion If you are a vet player these rewards should mean LITTLE or NOTHING to you.

DaveMoeDee

Acrolas wrote: »

There's no race to level a new character unless you want to choose a specific reward from the Flame crate season with gems.

Otherwise, just wait until you want to level a new character. Might be this year. Might be next year. I don't know why grown adults are getting so bent out of shape over a few small rewards that aren't going away any time soon.

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

what Zenimax owes its players

Zenimax, Bethesda, ZOS... none of them owe us anything.

While a agree, those with 15 max level characters

ZeroXFF wrote: »

And don't forget the Morrowind skill point that older characters still don't have. Veteran players are left behind what seems like every patch.

I don't think they intended the double dipping people can do with new characters and Morrowind. An unfortunate bug.

smacky

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

There's no race to level a new character unless you want to choose a specific reward from the Flame crate season with gems.

Otherwise, just wait until you want to level a new character. Might be this year. Might be next year. I don't know why grown adults are getting so bent out of shape over a few small rewards that aren't going away any time soon.

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

what Zenimax owes its players

Zenimax, Bethesda, ZOS... none of them owe us anything.

While a agree, those with 15 max level characters

ZeroXFF wrote: »

And don't forget the Morrowind skill point that older characters still don't have. Veteran players are left behind what seems like every patch.

I don't think they intended the double dipping people can do with new characters and Morrowind. An unfortunate bug.

I think they really should have made a Free Character slot available to all players as part of the patch (if you gave only to some, there would still be reasoned complaints) and this would alleviate the issues you bring up, with which I toitally agree.

Asking someone to delete a character to create a new one, can include asking them to do away with paid contributions, such as riding lessons, and that instantly makes asking the question of anyone unfair.

Acrolas

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

While a agree, those with 15 max level characters

There were 14 character slots before Update 17.
If you have 15, you've leveled another character since the update.

TelvanniWizard

You know, I have only two characters, so I could easily run another one, up to level 50, but it seems unfair to me that I´m not getting those rewards with my already levelled characters. Just my opinion. I´d like to recieve them all together now, because I already beat up to level 50 not only once, but twice (aye, not a great grind, but stil...).

TamrielSaviour215

I just came back to the game a couple of weeks ago after a 6+ month hiatus. I absolutely love the new system. I never fully maxed out my main and started three others. I ended up deleting a few and and starting a tank (which I have never done) just last week. I don't think anyone will argue the free horse as this is a MUST for virtually everyone. But as for being unfair to old players....I think the new players are at a HUGE disadvantage to those that have maxed out multiple toons. If these little (yes little) benefits seem too incentive to new players, I believe you are not seeing this from the right perspective.

We all want new players to join the game. That is half of the fun. To complain because they are getting things that you have had for years is selfish. I completely understand you want some sort of compensation for the grind you put in, but if I am a new player, I am going to want some way of relating to the vets. If that means I get a free bag, a free horse, some crates, and an EXP scroll (which you probably don't need) as well as some cosmetics, then I feel like the game and (more importantly) the community is doing everything they can to welcome me and give me an opportunity to integrate in.

QuebraRegra

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

Merlin13KAGL

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage entitled loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

Fixed your fix.

smacky

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

I don't see any reason for zenimax to discourage loyal players, veteran, casual or relatively new.

These are incentives, and unless you have to delete a character in order to create a new one, then I can't see how it is a problem.

If you create a new character, you are also entitled to all of the same level up benefits, including the crates.

QuebraRegra

smacky wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

I don't see any reason for zenimax to discourage loyal players, veteran, casual or relatively new.

These are incentives, and unless you have to delete a character in order to create a new one, then I can't see how it is a problem.

If you create a new character, you are also entitled to all of the same level up benefits, including the crates.

character deleted... hours wasted grinding... pretty discouraging. But by all means, go ahead and disregard anyway.

smacky

QuebraRegra wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

I don't see any reason for zenimax to discourage loyal players, veteran, casual or relatively new.

These are incentives, and unless you have to delete a character in order to create a new one, then I can't see how it is a problem.

If you create a new character, you are also entitled to all of the same level up benefits, including the crates.

character deleted... hours wasted grinding... pretty discouraging. But by all means, go ahead and disregard anyway.

I am not disregarding those things. I clearly stated: "unless you have to delete a character in order to create a new one, then I can't see how it is a problem."

If you do have to delete a character, I would suggest creating a thread relating to the need to delete a character to receive these incentives, or alternately to log a request with ZOS explaining the situation, and asking if they have a protocol in place to counter such a situation.

I am sure more than one person is in that boat, and in the event that you have invested not only time, but crowns in upgrading a character, for example riding lessons, then I think you would have a valid complaint to put forward.

If not, then I amn sure that most people don't play some of their characters often if ever, meaning using one of those toon's might actually give you some fun in levelling a new toon up again for something different.

jedtb16_ESO

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

no you didn't.

what are 'loyal veteran players'?

@*&" sick.

Guarlet

The amount of whining I've seen about this topic is unreal. The levelling up rewards were not meant for vet players who already have a ton of stuff, but to give new players a leg up. If you so badly want the rewards for yourself you can make a new alt and level it. It's not hard.

Put a system of earning completely free rewards in the game, and people still manage to complain. Just can't win.

Merlin13KAGL

QuebraRegra wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

I don't see any reason for zenimax to discourage loyal players, veteran, casual or relatively new.

These are incentives, and unless you have to delete a character in order to create a new one, then I can't see how it is a problem.

If you create a new character, you are also entitled to all of the same level up benefits, including the crates.

character deleted... hours wasted grinding... pretty discouraging. But by all means, go ahead and disregard anyway.

At no point were you obligated to delete a character to achieve these gamechanging rewards (personally, I can't describe how much more powerful I felt when I got to choose between three blue quality non-set chest pieces.)

• An additional character slot was added in the crown store.
• Since that slot didn't exist prior to the rewards, it's not possible that you had to delete a character to make a new one. If anything, you chose to.
• There is absolutely nothing in the level up rewards that affects your ability to play in any way, shape, nor form.

At least take the time to know what you're talking about before you come whining about missed incentives.

If a 10k horse and some BS mats and gear are gamebreaking for you, you don't deserve to call yourself Vet.

AdamSC

Sergykid wrote: »

it's pretty obvious that they want to accommodate players with the crown items, so when the gifting is over, they will feel the need to buy crowns via paying

This is the key point.

Doing this will increase the percentage of people who buy from the crown store - increasing the health of the game. So everyone, including long term players benefit.

That said, . Your perception that very advanced players are receiving less in the way of incentives is absolutely correct and completely expected. It is always true that early adopters of any technology will pay a premium in terms of money and quality. It is the same as complaining that people who wait a year to buy a AAA game title will get $30 off the cost + all of the DLC that came out that year. Its just the basic pricing model of the business. The biggest fans pay the most - and receive the benefit of being the first.

However, @ZOS would be wise to randomly reward very loyal players and build the perception that ZOS cares about the long term members of the community. Which I believe that they do, but enhancing that perception will only help. You would be less likely to complain if over the course of the past few years you occasionally got a reward for no reason except your longevity in the game.

Good post.

Loving ESO and nothing but respect for the development and business team who put it together

Elsterchen

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

... they completely undermine the gratuitous time and effort that some of us have put into our CP720 toons. I'm not saying that I don't want this for new characters, but the fact is that we old farts aren't getting the rewards for continuing to play our primary characters. I recently looked at the list of rewards from level four onward, and I'm having... for lack of better words, extremely mixed yet bitter feelings about this.

• Level 7 gets a free bag space upgrade. In my year of playing ESO, I have never received a free bag upgrade. 1000 crowns. 500 gold
• Level 10 gets a free mount. I feel that this is relatively fair.
• Level 18 gets a free storage coffer. This is problematic. Assuming that you have no crowns, you would have to buy the 1500 crown pack for $14.99, which equates to a ratio of 100.067 crowns per dollar. Essentially, if you hit level 18, you get $10 just for playing the game. 1000 crowns. not sure but it's obtainable via vouchers, isn't it (?) ...
• Level 20 gets a free costume of choice AND a crown crate. I'm somewhat skeptical, but I can see its purpose. Most of us have gotten free crown crates during the recent events in which we have to log in and kill something, or simply log in. I don't mind a free crown crate for just experiencing the game. But the rest of us never got one outside of a time crunched five-day event which may have been otherwise inaccessible due to life's inconsistencies, and these new players are able to claim them in their own spare time just for leveling at their own pace. This whole system is starting to sound dreadfully like a supplemental cash grab for character slot tokens, or just a word-of-mouth incentive to draw in new players via the "hey, you get stuff from the paystore as you level" model. 400 crowns for crate ... minus all those crown crates you received for free or minor activities already+ 500 crowns for the costume because I want to assume frugality.
• Level 24 gets a free pet. No big problem for me, considering a pet doesn't have a chance of giving you a rare mount or crafting motif. 700 crowns.... minus the pets you surely have received for playing beta or the 6 month sub etc etc etc ... and the free baselisk
• Level 30 gets another crown crate. 400 more crowns. s.a.
• Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
• Level 43 gets one skill and one attribute respec scroll. Almost like getting four crates. 1400 crowns. ingame for gold available at all times + have been handed out at one major update (first time zeni decided not to roll back all stats and before the decision was made to just reduce the price on shrine rollback)
• Level 46 gets five crown mimic stones. 600/12 = 50 crowns apiece = 250 crowns. You are picky, aren't you? got plenty of those from my free crown crates, you surely got some too this way.
• Level 49 gets a crown experience scroll. Generally 1000 crowns.Ambrosia and alike, double XP events newer players missed.
• Level 50 gets another crown crate. 400 crowns. s.a.

The total crown expenditure on these new players is 7,050 crowns 500 crowns, which is what Zenimax owes its players who have already gone through the hours of questing, delving, repetitive dailies, instances, trials, alliance war, etc. These new players are being rewarded handsomely for leveling, not to mention being ASSISTED the entire way as well! This is a dangerous precedent, because it rewards higher rewards for lower levels of thought (based on experience, of course) actually required to build a character. So if these new players are benefiting specifically for the fortuitous act of joining the game at a later date than most of us, then why aren't we getting retroactively rewarded for the time that we've already invested in the game?

Fixed that for you. You are welcome.

Tan9oSuccka

QuebraRegra wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

"it's there to discourage loyal veteran players"

there fixed it.

Nah. I’ve played since day 1...1000 CPs.

This is a smart move by Zenimax.

Kiralyn2000

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

You know, I have only two characters, so I could easily run another one, up to level 50, but it seems unfair to me that I´m not getting those rewards with my already levelled characters. Just my opinion.

You should probably, then, avoid the various other MMOs that have "recruit new players/create new characters" promotions. It's not terribly uncommon, esp. in the f2p/b2p realm.

----

And hey, veterans! You know what new players miss out on? All the limited-time events and promotions that you've had over the years.


As someone who's been playing MMOs for 12+ years, I've had both happen to me - limited time events & rewards that I could never get, and encouragements to make new characters for some "level a character, get prizes!" bonus. In multiple games. It's no big deal.

Kodrac

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

the gratuitous time and effort

Really? That's as far as I got.

starkerealm

ZeroXFF wrote: »

And don't forget the Morrowind skill point that older characters still don't have. Veteran players are left behind what seems like every patch.

Well, it gets better. Back at launch, some dungeon quests did not award skill points. This was bugged, but, to the best of my knowledge, some of those early adopters who ran dungeons in the first couple days never got those skill points.

xaraan

Storage container is the real slap in the face. Forces you to buy a new slot if you are maxed out and level up a new guy just to get what anyone that did all you've already done would get.

It didn't effect me personally, b/c I was planning on doing that anyhow, but still felt it dirty of them to do.

I've accepted that they care way more about getting new people, even if they only stick around for a little bit, than they are in keeping existing players, but sometimes a slap in the face is still a slap in the face lol. Not to say they don't care at all about vets, but we are lower on the list it seems.

I like a lot of the other rewards it offers for new players and a lot of the other catch up mechanics they've added to help people get into the game, but seems like you could cater to that new player base without completely doing things that make vets feel regret about having already been into the game.

Rudal

smacky wrote: »

Based on your title, I was expecting a much fairer argument, that I would have agreed with. eg: Level 10 = Free Mount, if you own it already how about the 10k gold instead?

Instead ............

Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
Once again, it's a once per account reward

Once per account?
Hmm.... So, if my main has Blacksmithing and Woodworking and one of my "small" alts has Clothing that means I can use it only on one of those characters?

Shame... It's not an issue but one of the reasons I started a new character last year was to level up Clothing on it cause I couldn't be bothered to respec on my main ...

starkerealm

Rudal wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

Based on your title, I was expecting a much fairer argument, that I would have agreed with. eg: Level 10 = Free Mount, if you own it already how about the 10k gold instead?

Instead ............

Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
Once again, it's a once per account reward

Once per account?
Hmm.... So, if my main has Blacksmithing and Woodworking and one of my "small" alts has Clothing that means I can use it only on one of those characters?

Shame... It's not an issue but one of the reasons I started a new character last year was to level up Clothing on it cause I couldn't be bothered to respec on my main ...

No, because it's not a crafting motif. It's an outfit system unlock that adds the prisoner rags you had at character creation to the outfit system. It is not a crafting motif.

It's once per account, because you can't claim the same collectible multiple times. There's no point, those are all account wide anyway.

strangeradnd

I like the new system. The only items worth complaining about fairness with would be the motif and coffer. But the slave outfit is nothing most people would use and the coffer makes up for the fact that it will take many months before most new players could even think about getting writs to buy one while vets should be able to purchase them without issue.

Taleof2Cities

Still seeing a lot of entitled comments in this thread ...