Leveling rewards: fair for new players, but...

UmbilicalSyllables

... they completely undermine the gratuitous time and effort that some of us have put into our CP720 toons. I'm not saying that I don't want this for new characters, but the fact is that we old farts aren't getting the rewards for continuing to play our primary characters. I recently looked at the list of rewards from level four onward, and I'm having... for lack of better words, extremely mixed yet bitter feelings about this.

• Level 7 gets a free bag space upgrade. In my year of playing ESO, I have never received a free bag upgrade. 1000 crowns.
• Level 10 gets a free mount. I feel that this is relatively fair.
• Level 18 gets a free storage coffer. This is problematic. Assuming that you have no crowns, you would have to buy the 1500 crown pack for $14.99, which equates to a ratio of 100.067 crowns per dollar. Essentially, if you hit level 18, you get $10 just for playing the game. 1000 crowns.
• Level 20 gets a free costume of choice AND a crown crate. I'm somewhat skeptical, but I can see its purpose. Most of us have gotten free crown crates during the recent events in which we have to log in and kill something, or simply log in. I don't mind a free crown crate for just experiencing the game. But the rest of us never got one outside of a time crunched five-day event which may have been otherwise inaccessible due to life's inconsistencies, and these new players are able to claim them in their own spare time just for leveling at their own pace. This whole system is starting to sound dreadfully like a supplemental cash grab for character slot tokens, or just a word-of-mouth incentive to draw in new players via the "hey, you get stuff from the paystore as you level" model. 400 crowns for crate + 500 crowns for the costume because I want to assume frugality.
• Level 24 gets a free pet. No big problem for me, considering a pet doesn't have a chance of giving you a rare mount or crafting motif. 700 crowns.
• Level 30 gets another crown crate. 400 more crowns.
• Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
• Level 43 gets one skill and one attribute respec scroll. Almost like getting four crates. 1400 crowns.
• Level 46 gets five crown mimic stones. 600/12 = 50 crowns apiece = 250 crowns.
• Level 49 gets a crown experience scroll. Generally 1000 crowns.
• Level 50 gets another crown crate. 400 crowns.

The total crown expenditure on these new players is 7,050 crowns, which is what Zenimax owes its players who have already gone through the hours of questing, delving, repetitive dailies, instances, trials, alliance war, etc. These new players are being rewarded handsomely for leveling, not to mention being ASSISTED the entire way as well! This is a dangerous precedent, because it rewards higher rewards for lower levels of thought (based on experience, of course) actually required to build a character. So if these new players are benefiting specifically for the fortuitous act of joining the game at a later date than most of us, then why aren't we getting retroactively rewarded for the time that we've already invested in the game?

Aliyavana

The bag space is the first slot only and 500 gold.

The free mount is just a old outdated texture horse and is nothing special

Level 18 can take less than an hour

The costumes are mostly craftable and level 20 is a fast grind. Crown crates are just a nice addition and only offer cosmetics.

Crown mimic stones are redundant thanks to the outfit system

Only thing that sucks is that the level 40 outfit unlock is needed for an achievement and I'm too lazy to grind but the system is fine.

jedtb16_ESO

it's there to encourage new players.

it applies to all newly created toons.

you want the stuff?

make a new toon.

Ancientwolf

You know, thats the same as a 6 month recoup from ESO plus.

Ive had an account since beta. Im glad to see these even if its for a new character.

Sergykid

it's pretty obvious that they want to accommodate players with the crown items, so when the gifting is over, they will feel the need to buy crowns via paying

Leandor

1. The bag space upgrade is only the 400g upgrade (first upgrade). If a player has bought this, with ingame gold, he doesn't receive the upgrade from levelling.
2. Storage coffer and crown crates are once per account. Even us old timers can get them fairly easily by adding another alt, levelling 1 to 50 for the goodies doesn't take much effort or time.
3. The outfit motif (and it's only that, you can't craft that outfit) has no equivalent in crown store, so it is a unique reward. Similar to my striped senche that new players will never have the option to acquire. Fair trade in my mind.
4. Respec can be achieved with ingame gold. It's not exactly valid to directly convert that to crown loss equivalent. Also, us long timers know what to do, so the need for these is really more for newcomers. Also remember that these are character bound, you can't use them for a different char.
5. Crown motif stones... well, we do have an excessively expensive outfit system that in theory absolves of the requirement to use trait materials...
6. Experience scrolls... once you are past 720, there is no real need for them. I stay far ahead the cap even though. And again, these are character bound. Not that much of an issue as with respec scrolls since CP are account wide, but still.

That leaves us with the cosmetic fluff. Looking at what's available from levelling, these are not the most desired costumes. I have most of them anyways because I bought them during sales at reduced prices. Anyways, comparing to what I received because I subbed at PC start from loyalty rewards, these are.... not an issue?

Ilithyania

If this attracts new players , good

if you have played a long time, you prob have all these rewards or dont need them

Silver_Strider

Let's see here.

1500 to buy the 15th character slot ZOS added for players that bought the max amount of slots already and didn't want to delete an old character. This means they can now earn all these leveling awards, making any argument moot but it actually becomes more in favor of the player as now, according to the OP's math, for the price of a mere 1 month subscription, these old players are now gaining an extra 5550 crowns (minus the cost of the character slot purchase) worth of free merchandise just for leveling up a new character.

Retroactive rewards would have been nice in some cases (namely the storage coffer) the rest of the rewards are meh at best and fairly useless for the rest.

DieAlteHexe

The poor horse is paste now...a mere stain upon the ground.

Let it rest in peace.

Enslaved

OP, with that logic u just need to invest 1.5k crowns into new char slot and u will earn 7k+ crowns in various things and services, making it a profit of 5.5k+ crowns.

Buy new slot, level a new char and enjoy the game.

Prof_Bawbag

Exactly what someone said further up. It's nothing but a means to advertise the goodies in the crown store. The fact some items are useful is just a mere coincidence. Kinda have to laugh at people who think ZoS are doing us a 100% good turn here and giving out free items which would otherwise have to be purchased in some shape or form. They're not, they're sucking folk in, especially newcomers.

smacky

Based on your title, I was expecting a much fairer argument, that I would have agreed with. eg: Level 10 = Free Mount, if you own it already how about the 10k gold instead?

Instead ............


Level 7 gets a free bag space upgrade. In my year of playing ESO, I have never received a free bag upgrade. 1000 crowns.
All bag space upgrades can be purchased with in game gold, the first is 400 gold
Level 10 gets a free mount. I feel that this is relatively fair.
As stated at top
Level 18 gets a free storage coffer. This is problematic. Assuming that you have no crowns, you would have to buy the 1500 crown pack for $14.99, which equates to a ratio of 100.067 crowns per dollar. Essentially, if you hit level 18, you get $10 just for playing the game. 1000 crowns.
This applies to a new Character, and only 1 Character, and the coffer is available to ALL your characters. Simply starting a new character unlocks this, and it is not something you could previously had spent crowns on/ And all the coffers and Chests can be purchased with WRIT Vouchers / Telvar Stones
Level 20 gets a free costume of choice AND a crown crate. I'm somewhat skeptical, but I can see its purpose. Most of us have gotten free crown crates during the recent events in which we have to log in and kill something, or simply log in. I don't mind a free crown crate for just experiencing the game. But the rest of us never got one outside of a time crunched five-day event which may have been otherwise inaccessible due to life's inconsistencies, and these new players are able to claim them in their own spare time just for leveling at their own pace. This whole system is starting to sound dreadfully like a supplemental cash grab for character slot tokens, or just a word-of-mouth incentive to draw in new players via the "hey, you get stuff from the paystore as you level" model. 400 crowns for crate + 500 crowns for the costume because I want to assume frugality.
Once again, it's a once per account reward
Level 24 gets a free pet. No big problem for me, considering a pet doesn't have a chance of giving you a rare mount or crafting motif. 700 crowns.
Once again, it's a once per account reward
Level 30 gets another crown crate. 400 more crowns.
Once again, it's a once per account reward
Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
Once again, it's a once per account reward
Level 43 gets one skill and one attribute respec scroll. Almost like getting four crates. 1400 crowns.
These are locked to the character you get them with. Once again at most 15k gold
Level 46 gets five crown mimic stones. 600/12 = 50 crowns apiece = 250 crowns.
Once again, it's a once per account reward
Level 49 gets a crown experience scroll. Generally 1000 crowns.
If you are paying 1000 crowns for 1 exp scroll you are off your rocker.
Level 50 gets another crown crate. 400 crowns.
Once again, it's a once per account reward

So all in all, you are whingeing that you feel ripped off because of the equal cost for all these things in CROWNS.

You do not have to buy any of these things with crowns, except for crates, and these are 1 off bonuses for levelling your new character up.

If your argument was straight up, that if you have maxed out your characters already and that you had specnt crowns on extra slots, I might have some sympathy for you. Your arguments put forward however are simply unjustified, especially since almost everything in your arguments are either 1 off's or you can achieve with ingame currencies.

Iarao

eso has snowflaked up the game. they need constant affirmation and rewards while they progress in order to continue with the game, thereby hopefully spending some real money in the crown store at some point. this really is crap. i have renewed my plus for the final time.

smacky

Iarao wrote: »

eso has snowflaked up the game. they need constant affirmation and rewards while they progress in order to continue with the game, thereby hopefully spending some real money in the crown store at some point. this really is crap. i have renewed my plus for the final time.

What out of that list do you need to spend a single crown on?
Seriously what is wrong with you people!

Defilted

ZOS owes you nothing. I am not sure where you get a sense of entitlement that allows you to believe that a private company owes you something but IMO that is a completely wrong.

ZOS will continue to change their game to make it more appealing to new players to attract new players. ZOS does not owe anyone back pay becasue of this.

If you want these rewards, then please level a new character.

Tan9oSuccka

They implemented a smart system.

Encourages and guides new players and vet players still can benefit.

In my case, I like what they did. I bought another character slot.

DMuehlhausen

Meh it's like any company. You do things to bring in new clients/buyers.

Look at DirectTV. People there get Sunday Ticket for Free if they say sign up on their first season. I've had it since like 1997 and I get no discount, or any promo pricing.

Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile etc...all the good deals go to attracting new business.

DaveMoeDee

Iarao wrote: »

eso has snowflaked up the game. they need constant affirmation and rewards while they progress in order to continue with the game, thereby hopefully spending some real money in the crown store at some point. this really is crap. i have renewed my plus for the final time.

Ironic that the people who sound like snowflakes to me in this thread are the ones complaining about this grievous injustice.

Hokiewa

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Iarao wrote: »

eso has snowflaked up the game. they need constant affirmation and rewards while they progress in order to continue with the game, thereby hopefully spending some real money in the crown store at some point. this really is crap. i have renewed my plus for the final time.

Ironic that the people who sound like snowflakes to me in this thread are the ones complaining about this grievous injustice.

Grievous? Oh good lord......Talk about an overreaction....

DaveMoeDee

Hokiewa wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Iarao wrote: »

eso has snowflaked up the game. they need constant affirmation and rewards while they progress in order to continue with the game, thereby hopefully spending some real money in the crown store at some point. this really is crap. i have renewed my plus for the final time.

Ironic that the people who sound like snowflakes to me in this thread are the ones complaining about this grievous injustice.

Grievous? Oh good lord......Talk about an overreaction....

Did you read my full sentence? The "grievous" was sarcastic.

7788b14_ESO

I've played other games that gave those as vet rewards. Not here I see.

Tasear

I just hope it stops here. It doesn't really bother me since I actually only had seven characters, but still locking a storage crate "only" via leveling up a fresh character is a stretch.

P.S still want Morrowind skill point

DaveMoeDee

Tasear wrote: »

I just hope it stops here. It doesn't really bother me since I actually only had seven characters, but still locking a storage crate "only" via leveling up a fresh character is a stretch.

P.S still want Morrowind skill point

Yeah, that skill point is a bit more egregious. Every skill point helps.

Vahrokh

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

... they completely undermine the gratuitous time and effort that some of us have put into our CP720 toons. I'm not saying that I don't want this for new characters, but the fact is that we old farts aren't getting the rewards for continuing to play our primary characters. I recently looked at the list of rewards from level four onward, and I'm having... for lack of better words, extremely mixed yet bitter feelings about this.

• Level 7 gets a free bag space upgrade. In my year of playing ESO, I have never received a free bag upgrade. 1000 crowns.
• Level 10 gets a free mount. I feel that this is relatively fair.
• Level 18 gets a free storage coffer. This is problematic. Assuming that you have no crowns, you would have to buy the 1500 crown pack for $14.99, which equates to a ratio of 100.067 crowns per dollar. Essentially, if you hit level 18, you get $10 just for playing the game. 1000 crowns.
• Level 20 gets a free costume of choice AND a crown crate. I'm somewhat skeptical, but I can see its purpose. Most of us have gotten free crown crates during the recent events in which we have to log in and kill something, or simply log in. I don't mind a free crown crate for just experiencing the game. But the rest of us never got one outside of a time crunched five-day event which may have been otherwise inaccessible due to life's inconsistencies, and these new players are able to claim them in their own spare time just for leveling at their own pace. This whole system is starting to sound dreadfully like a supplemental cash grab for character slot tokens, or just a word-of-mouth incentive to draw in new players via the "hey, you get stuff from the paystore as you level" model. 400 crowns for crate + 500 crowns for the costume because I want to assume frugality.
• Level 24 gets a free pet. No big problem for me, considering a pet doesn't have a chance of giving you a rare mount or crafting motif. 700 crowns.
• Level 30 gets another crown crate. 400 more crowns.
• Level 40 gets a free crafting motif. Considering that I've never actually seen this motif before, this seems like a step out of bounds. Who else actually has access to this motif? Can it be bought, sold, traded, or dropped? If not, why do only fresh 40's get it?
• Level 43 gets one skill and one attribute respec scroll. Almost like getting four crates. 1400 crowns.
• Level 46 gets five crown mimic stones. 600/12 = 50 crowns apiece = 250 crowns.
• Level 49 gets a crown experience scroll. Generally 1000 crowns.
• Level 50 gets another crown crate. 400 crowns.

The total crown expenditure on these new players is 7,050 crowns, which is what Zenimax owes its players who have already gone through the hours of questing, delving, repetitive dailies, instances, trials, alliance war, etc. These new players are being rewarded handsomely for leveling, not to mention being ASSISTED the entire way as well! This is a dangerous precedent, because it rewards higher rewards for lower levels of thought (based on experience, of course) actually required to build a character. So if these new players are benefiting specifically for the fortuitous act of joining the game at a later date than most of us, then why aren't we getting retroactively rewarded for the time that we've already invested in the game?

Where is it written that you cannot make a new character and get the same stuff?

It's obvious that ZOS wants players to get plenty of storage: with all the $$$ costumes, items and so on, they give what they cost close to zero (30 rows in a database) in exchange for an incentive to have players purchase stuff on their crown store.

smacky

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

I've played other games that gave those as vet rewards. Not here I see.

The Vet rewards in this game are handed out weekly for the Leaderboards.

Not sure what your issue here is. If you do Vet Trials, and Vet Maelstrom Arena, you have your chance at being on the Leaderboards and getting Perfected gear.

DieAlteHexe

smacky wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

I've played other games that gave those as vet rewards. Not here I see.

The Vet rewards in this game are handed out weekly for the Leaderboards.

Not sure what your issue here is. If you do Vet Trials, and Vet Maelstrom Arena, you have your chance at being on the Leaderboards and getting Perfected gear.

In the context that was meant, "vet rewards" is for long term subscribers, not those who participate in trials etc. There's a few MMOs I can think of that do this; SWTOR, EQ and Rift, if memory serves.

starkerealm

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

The total crown expenditure on these new players is 7,050 crowns...

No. A lot of those rewards are things you can obtain from gold or via other means. The containers are available via Tel Var or Vouchers (which is how I got them). The bag upgrade is, literally, 500g. If you're wanting to argue that spending $10 is a better deal than 500g in game... no, it's really not.

The respec scrolls are a similar situation. Yes, you can buy those with crowns, but honestly, you're probably better of shelling out the cash to respec when it comes up.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

In the context that was meant, "vet rewards" is for long term subscribers, not those who participate in trials etc. There's a few MMOs I can think of that do this; SWTOR, EQ and Rift, if memory serves.

ESO has four vet rewards. The Ice Wraith pet, the Dwemer Sphere pet, the Mask of Cheerful Slaughter costume, and the Tiger Senche mount. Those were all awarded in 2014 and early 2015, but the system was discontinued with the introduction of Tamriel Unlimited in 2015.

DieAlteHexe

starkerealm wrote: »

UmbilicalSyllables wrote: »

The total crown expenditure on these new players is 7,050 crowns...

No. A lot of those rewards are things you can obtain from gold or via other means. The containers are available via Tel Var or Vouchers (which is how I got them). The bag upgrade is, literally, 500g. If you're wanting to argue that spending $10 is a better deal than 500g in game... no, it's really not.

The respec scrolls are a similar situation. Yes, you can buy those with crowns, but honestly, you're probably better of shelling out the cash to respec when it comes up.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

In the context that was meant, "vet rewards" is for long term subscribers, not those who participate in trials etc. There's a few MMOs I can think of that do this; SWTOR, EQ and Rift, if memory serves.

ESO has four vet rewards. The Ice Wraith pet, the Dwemer Sphere pet, the Mask of Cheerful Slaughter costume, and the Tiger Senche mount. Those were all awarded in 2014 and early 2015, but the system was discontinued with the introduction of Tamriel Unlimited in 2015.

I know, I know. I was clarifying for the fellow I thought misunderstood the term.

smacky

I'm not being smart @DieAlteHexe but your comment was pretty blunt, it didn't offer any context is what I mean to say.

As I said, not being smart, just explaining my reason for misunderstanding you.

Tandor

It's a shame that instead of celebrating a good initiative to draw in more players one or two veterans are instead whining because they're not getting any reward for playing the game. Still, it's heartening that it is only one or two!

lardvader

I've only leveled 2 characters from mid 20 with the new system.

It's nice but as a seasoned ESO player I don't feel I'm missing much from the rewards. They are nice but not that great.

Best you get is 50 transmutation crystals but you only get them once and not for every character you level up.

Would be cool if they threw the vets a bone but again not that much you miss out on if you already have clocked a few thousand hours in this game

Best thing with this update is the outfit system and that is something the long term players can probably enjoy more than new players to the game due to known motifs and gold.