[Video] PvP - Advanced Guide to 1vX & Magicka Sorcerer - Now updated with Gameplay

Aedaryl

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

The main problem for sorc currently is that the classes infight sustain is garbage compared to other magica specs except for maybe templar (depending on morphs here) against non magica opponents (or without harness).

It makes having a somewhat sustainable dmg build much harder to sustain due to the nature of shields being proactive instead of reactive (iE you have fixed costs + gcd for defense regardless if your opponent pressures you or nah).

Then sustain builds just do not hit much less than pure dmg builds. A very heavily sustain focused setup will have CF tooltips between 13 to 14k unbuffed.
A heavy dmg build will see 14 to 15.5k unbuffed. So if we´re being generous and go with the 10% tooltip difference that usually comes at the cost of 20 to 30% magica AND stamina recovery. That tradeoff just isn´t worth it for 95% of the situations you´d find yourself in when soloing.

Then we also have the issue that runecage is just a terrible spell all around except for outnumbering opponents because it reduces number of offensive cooldowns used in the sorcs relatively short burst window.
You can´t hit a full burst with runecage so it´s imo subpar to reach in every way except for allies dmging your target aswell.

This is the truth.

Espacially the in fight sustain.

I'm playing without harness magicka, and sustaining is a true pain. With a potion, I've 2440 magicka recovery and 49k magicka coupled with 16k stamina (4 well-fitted) and 1080 stamina recovery sprinkle with a 1.9k spell damage (no nirn, no berserk glyph) and 45% critical.

My stam sustain is just so good, dodging, breaking free and blocking when u want is a true freedom.

But I've trouble to sustain my magicka. My matriarch heal is the most expensive heal in the game and I need to cast ward every 2-3 second, which is a true mana drain. I can long fight only with dark conversion, but it's kinda hard to use it when you are heavely pressured...

BohnT

Aedaryl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

The main problem for sorc currently is that the classes infight sustain is garbage compared to other magica specs except for maybe templar (depending on morphs here) against non magica opponents (or without harness).

It makes having a somewhat sustainable dmg build much harder to sustain due to the nature of shields being proactive instead of reactive (iE you have fixed costs + gcd for defense regardless if your opponent pressures you or nah).

Then sustain builds just do not hit much less than pure dmg builds. A very heavily sustain focused setup will have CF tooltips between 13 to 14k unbuffed.
A heavy dmg build will see 14 to 15.5k unbuffed. So if we´re being generous and go with the 10% tooltip difference that usually comes at the cost of 20 to 30% magica AND stamina recovery. That tradeoff just isn´t worth it for 95% of the situations you´d find yourself in when soloing.

Then we also have the issue that runecage is just a terrible spell all around except for outnumbering opponents because it reduces number of offensive cooldowns used in the sorcs relatively short burst window.
You can´t hit a full burst with runecage so it´s imo subpar to reach in every way except for allies dmging your target aswell.

This is the truth.

Espacially the in fight sustain.

I'm playing without harness magicka, and sustaining is a true pain. With a potion, I've 2440 magicka recovery and 49k magicka coupled with 16k stamina (4 well-fitted) and 1080 stamina recovery sprinkle with a 1.9k spell damage (no nirn, no berserk glyph) and 45% critical.

My stam sustain is just so good, dodging, breaking free and blocking when u want is a true freedom.

But I've trouble to sustain my magicka. My matriarch heal is the most expensive heal in the game and I need to cast ward every 2-3 second, which is a true mana drain. I can long fight only with dark conversion, but it's kinda hard to use it when you are heavely pressured...

Do you have different magicka stats when bar swapping?

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

what are you dropping for boundless?

Malamar1229

bardx86 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

what are you dropping for boundless?

On my build set up, I don't run harness. I think Minalan runs overload on his resto bar.

bardx86

I've been running shackles but with spinner for some time. I just added dark conversion from watching this thread and I do like it. Not sure i need to put lich back on tho however i will give it a try just to see. I am gonna try well fitted for sure. Thanks for the video you know it hard out here for a Sorc.

bardx86

Malamar1229 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

what are you dropping for boundless?

On my build set up, I don't run harness. I think Minalan runs overload on his resto bar.

i go back a forth on harness. i rarely use it in normal PVP but every time i take it off i run into that one sorc that has it up and its just a very hard fight.

Kova

I wanted to add on for those who are still doubting this kind of setup in lieu of some high spell damage build.

Let's say that after all the math is considered, (spell pen, mitigation from heavy, raw power) if you have a skill that says it will do 13k damage and you compare it to a setup that provides a tooltip of 10k damage, then apply pvp mitigation plus the mitigation stated before, then you'll notice the difference in damage is super small. Say we use 70% mitigation as a base for tanky builds:

13000*.7 = 9100, 13000-9100 = 3900 actual damage
10000*.7 = 7000 , 10000-7000 = 3000 actual damage

The difference between these two damage values? Almost 600 spell damage. The more damage you can do, the more that's mitigated. But if you can survive, you can still fight.

Minalan

Malamar1229 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

what are you dropping for boundless?

On my build set up, I don't run harness. I think Minalan runs overload on his resto bar.

Correct, I run overload because the utility of it is better than any single back-bar ultimate.

*defensive rune - this skill it just too good. Lasts for two minutes. It gives snipetard gankers absolute fits, keep it up and you rarely die to bow gankers. They usually quit the snipespam after a couple of stuns, it’s like reaching through the internet and delivering an open palm SLAP in the face. The rage whispers are worth it when combined with meteor and a wrath.

*dark exchange - I use it in between fights, with lich you rarely need it in one exchange with one or two players. In a Zerg versus Zerg fight you just back off a little and juice up, you can also use it to stave off a lich proc for when you really need it.

*mines - if you perfect using roll dodge to cancel the overload animation, you can get really good at spitting out mines in two consecutive dodge rolls and then end back on your attack bar. They’re effective against stamina types and really needed in those fights.

*boundless storm - the passive defense of this skill along with defensive rune makes an open world gank almost impossible. The mobility it confers is incredible, this skill it worth dropping power surge in favor of spell power pots if you think overload is too clunky. The buff is like 20 seconds, an eternity in PVP.

*overload light attacks - if there’s a more perfect way to fry 10K stam shield stacking Sorc potatoes I haven’t seen one.

Overload is cheap, all it takes is a couple of light or heavy Resto attacks and its up. It’s always there when you need it, and with shooting star handing out ult like candy, you still have enough left to overload after a meteor.

Aedaryl

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

The main problem for sorc currently is that the classes infight sustain is garbage compared to other magica specs except for maybe templar (depending on morphs here) against non magica opponents (or without harness).

It makes having a somewhat sustainable dmg build much harder to sustain due to the nature of shields being proactive instead of reactive (iE you have fixed costs + gcd for defense regardless if your opponent pressures you or nah).

Then sustain builds just do not hit much less than pure dmg builds. A very heavily sustain focused setup will have CF tooltips between 13 to 14k unbuffed.
A heavy dmg build will see 14 to 15.5k unbuffed. So if we´re being generous and go with the 10% tooltip difference that usually comes at the cost of 20 to 30% magica AND stamina recovery. That tradeoff just isn´t worth it for 95% of the situations you´d find yourself in when soloing.

Then we also have the issue that runecage is just a terrible spell all around except for outnumbering opponents because it reduces number of offensive cooldowns used in the sorcs relatively short burst window.
You can´t hit a full burst with runecage so it´s imo subpar to reach in every way except for allies dmging your target aswell.

This is the truth.

Espacially the in fight sustain.

I'm playing without harness magicka, and sustaining is a true pain. With a potion, I've 2440 magicka recovery and 49k magicka coupled with 16k stamina (4 well-fitted) and 1080 stamina recovery sprinkle with a 1.9k spell damage (no nirn, no berserk glyph) and 45% critical.

My stam sustain is just so good, dodging, breaking free and blocking when u want is a true freedom.

But I've trouble to sustain my magicka. My matriarch heal is the most expensive heal in the game and I need to cast ward every 2-3 second, which is a true mana drain. I can long fight only with dark conversion, but it's kinda hard to use it when you are heavely pressured...

Do you have different magicka stats when bar swapping?

No, I've almost 49k on both bar, no meteor or bound armor cheese

Minno

How many pieces of well fitted were run? I think I see 7 pieces?

Lexxypwns

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

Minalan

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

I can tell you why I don’t. Resto ult is a clench skill you use when you’re going to die outnumbered. It doesn’t work well when gates behind overload.

Plus, for me, overload is clunky enough to switch in and out of without using healing Ward or something to glitch yourself out of it.

Malamar1229

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

Fyi it doesn't work for me. I'm probably doing it wrong.

Malamar1229

Minalan wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

I can tell you why I don’t. Resto ult is a clench skill you use when you’re going to die outnumbered. It doesn’t work well when gates behind overload.

Plus, for me, overload is clunky enough to switch in and out of without using healing Ward or something to glitch yourself out of it.

As info you can use it offensively too . I'd rather spend the ult on dawnbreaker for the offensive gain but resto ult will save you as described above and allow you to swap offensively to relieve pressure.

Aedaryl

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

I can tell you why I don’t. Resto ult is a clench skill you use when you’re going to die outnumbered. It doesn’t work well when gates behind overload.

Plus, for me, overload is clunky enough to switch in and out of without using healing Ward or something to glitch yourself out of it.

As info you can use it offensively too . I'd rather spend the ult on dawnbreaker for the offensive gain but resto ult will save you as described above and allow you to swap offensively to relieve pressure.

Or put the resto ulti on the overload bar for the lol

Berenhir

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

You mean slotting a different ultimate on the active overload bar? That's afaik a console only exploit. Bug was fixed on PC long ago and cannot be used.

BohnT

Berenhir wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

You mean slotting a different ultimate on the active overload bar? That's afaik a console only exploit. Bug was fixed on PC long ago and cannot be used.

Still works.

Berenhir

BohnT wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

You mean slotting a different ultimate on the active overload bar? That's afaik a console only exploit. Bug was fixed on PC long ago and cannot be used.

Still works.

This game...

Aedaryl

This is not a bug anymore, this is a feature.
It's in the game for years and ZoS knows it.

When u need resto ultimate it's generaly for saving a friend life or saving your and returning the pressure.

The overload animation make that ur friend is already dead and you don't have the time to spend 1 gcd for nothing when u are heavely pressured.

Berenhir

Aedaryl wrote: »

This is not a bug anymore, this is a feature.
It's in the game for years and ZoS knows it.

When u need resto ultimate it's generaly for saving a friend life or saving your and returning the pressure.

The overload animation make that ur friend is already dead and you don't have the time to spend 1 gcd for nothing when u are heavely pressured.

It is obviously an exploit @ZOS_GinaBruno

But lets not derail Malcoms thread.

RinaldoGandolphi

adding more Stam or high Stam recovery to a mag sorc build def adds a lot to your survival.

I tried running 10k Stam last patch but didn’t like it...even with Bloodthorn and Tri-pots I wouldn’t run less then 14k....even more would be ideal. You folks are def on the right track

thedude33

I have watched thousands of these type of videos, and have to say this is one of the best. Clear and informative. Great insight. To top it off you are an excellent player. I have been trying to find a more efficient way to roll dodge after watching your video.

Edit: I read an earlier post about this being a long video. It is, but it didn't seem long with all the great information. No heavy metal music blaring in the back ground. No mumbling and stumbling. Very well done.

VirtualElizabeth

Really great job on the video!! My only suggestion is on the youtube page maybe indicate at what point in the video (indicated by the time stamp) the different sections start such as skills, gear etc. I wanted to view certain topics again and it took me a while to find the sections.

Again, great job!!!

Derra

Berenhir wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

This is not a bug anymore, this is a feature.
It's in the game for years and ZoS knows it.

When u need resto ultimate it's generaly for saving a friend life or saving your and returning the pressure.

The overload animation make that ur friend is already dead and you don't have the time to spend 1 gcd for nothing when u are heavely pressured.

It is obviously an exploit @ZOS_GinaBruno

But lets not derail Malcoms thread.

It´s been in the game since patch 1.6
That means march 2015. I have reported it back then. It´s a feature because otherwise zos wouldn´t be able to fix an exploit in 3 years - i´m pretty sure saying sth like that constitutes blasphemy.

MalcolM24

Minno wrote: »

How many pieces of well fitted were run? I think I see 7 pieces?

4 pieces, 3 infused. 7 works too I just like going over 42k magicka.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@MalcolM24 any reason you don’t slot overload and put resto ult on overload bar?

I want to have atro. Very good ult for 1v2-5 situations where I need to stop kiting and fight them. It turns the fight in my favor a lot, and for longer than resto ult. It also buffs my stamregen on backbar, since it's the only deadric summoning skill there. If I were to place overload there I would need to place curse on resto bar, but I want to have my burst combo on the same bar for more efficient use.
About resto ult - it's a 'damn I messed up' skill, and it's best for getting out of situations you didn't want to get into. Lets just say looking to the right and to the left before you cross a road is a good way to prevent accidents. And this:

Aedaryl wrote: »

This is not a bug anymore, this is a feature.
It's in the game for years and ZoS knows it.

When u need resto ultimate it's generaly for saving a friend life or saving your and returning the pressure.

The overload animation make that ur friend is already dead and you don't have the time to spend 1 gcd for nothing when u are heavely pressured.

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Really great job on the video!! My only suggestion is on the youtube page maybe indicate at what point in the video (indicated by the time stamp) the different sections start such as skills, gear etc. I wanted to view certain topics again and it took me a while to find the sections.

Again, great job!!!

Thank you ^^ Timestamps are in the youtube description, but I'll add them in the thread

@thedude33 Thanks!

Subversus

Love the video! Especially satisfying how you dealt with those 3 wing spamming dks, that must've been annoying hahahaha.

Nice to see at least one sorc that still uses streak...

Mavi

Can I ask why no impen? Sorry if this a dumb question, but I cant survive 5 minutes without it

thedude33

Mavi wrote: »

Can I ask why no impen? Sorry if this a dumb question, but I cant survive 5 minutes without it

You need more offense if you can't kill someone in 5 minutes.

Berenhir

Mavi wrote: »

Can I ask why no impen? Sorry if this a dumb question, but I cant survive 5 minutes without it

Because impenetrable only benefits builds that take damage to their health. This build relies on avoiding taking damage to health by shielding, repositioning and dodging.

Mavi

Berenhir wrote: »

Mavi wrote: »

Can I ask why no impen? Sorry if this a dumb question, but I cant survive 5 minutes without it

Because impenetrable only benefits builds that take damage to their health. This build relies on avoiding taking damage to health by shielding, repositioning and dodging.

The trait is not applied to the shield?