Actual cost per entertainment hour
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was also thinking that ESO is a great entertainment deal.
OP was talking about time spent, not entertainment.
EDIT: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4902275#Comment_4902275Edited by JamilaRaj on February 27, 2018 5:55PM0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭
See the previous statement on how that would impact steady monthly revenue before random impulse purchases.You are paying for a cosmetic item. You are paying for a pixel. But ZOS does not have to buy those pixels anywhere to put them together. They have to pay all the people putting it together and the electrical bill so they can see the pixels in the first place ... and the rent - and the other people who put pixels together that come in free updates.
The only reason to mark up random impulse buys so highly is to exploit the buyers and their desire for those items. You keep arguing it from a perspective of costs when they already have existing dependable avenues specifically to service such a thing. Again, their costs to produce pixel items are not what's increasing. They aren't suddenly paying their employees 100% more to produce those pixels, rent hasn't doubled in the past year, and server rent is covered through dependable revenue yet that revenue stream hasn't seen a price increase either.
ZOS operates on the same principle they have since the game launched. Offering items that players feel they can't live without and then gouging them on the price. It's not a matter of server costs, it's pure greed. We're talking about the same people who wanted to implement paid-mods for Skyrim to profit off of the labor of the player community.3 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
Ah, no, he has it in thread title, though he avoided the word "entertainment" in the actual post. So it is cost per hour of entertianment.
Which makes it easier for me, because I can simply say that cost per hour of entertainment can not be calculated that way, because one does not necessarily have fun in ESO 100% of time played (and part of monetization is based on that fact).Edited by JamilaRaj on February 27, 2018 5:55PM3 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭
See the previous statement on how that would impact steady monthly revenue before random impulse purchases.You are paying for a cosmetic item. You are paying for a pixel. But ZOS does not have to buy those pixels anywhere to put them together. They have to pay all the people putting it together and the electrical bill so they can see the pixels in the first place ... and the rent - and the other people who put pixels together that come in free updates.
The only reason to mark up random impulse buys so highly is to exploit the buyers and their desire for those items. You keep arguing it from a perspective of costs when they already have existing dependable avenues specifically to service such a thing. Again, their costs to produce pixel items are not what's increasing. They aren't suddenly paying their employees 100% more to produce those pixels, rent hasn't doubled in the past year, and server rent is covered through dependable revenue yet that revenue stream hasn't seen a price increase either.
ZOS operates on the same principle they have since the game launched. Offering items that players feel they can't live without and then gouging them on the price. It's not a matter of server costs, it's pure greed. We're talking about the same people who wanted to implement paid-mods for Skyrim to profit off of the labor of the player community.
Can't agree with your sentiment here ... not frOm the "exploitation" point or the "other dependable" sources of income. The market shifts all the time and no company out there can afford to say "nah it's ok, we make enough money". You have to strive to get better and improve. You hire talented people, you buy the latest equipment etc etc. Insert jokes about existing bugs here.
Do I understand why another competitor in this market with a record high of over 10 million people playing the game - all of them paying a monthly fee, started with microtransactions? I do understand it. Do I personally like the trend? Not necessarily. Do I feel nickel and dimed sometimes? Sure do. But the cat is out of the bag. It is proven that people are willing to pay for it. That's why the whole free to play with microtransactions came to be with all it's different variations.
Long story short I guess I define greed and exploitation different than you.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett1 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GimpyPorcupine wrote: »I cycled through all my toons yesterday, and using the /played command, tallied up the total time I've spent in this game. It came to just over 5400 hours.
So how much have I spent on this game?
Base game disk: $60
Morrowind disk: $60
2 years ESO+: $360
Total Crowns purchased: $400
Since this is the only game I play, I'll even add in:
XBox One: $500
XBox One X: $500
Elite Controller: $150
Rechargable batteries (estimate: $75)
So it's still less than $0.40/hour played.
I'm posting this as a response to all the "greedy ZOS" hate threads, and because some people apparently can't do Math.
That's about how much prisoners get paid per hour.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »That's great that you've played the game so much and enjoyed the relatively low cost for what you've paid for that entertainment.
When I call ZOS greedy, I'm looking at a couple specific examples.
1. The Morrowind "Chapter". Morrowind was pretty much a blatant "we've bundled several things that would have been good DLC into one so that we don't have to give it to ESO+ members for free and we're banking on TES III nostalgia to get it done."
2. Crown Crates and Apex Mounts. Loots boxes are a thing because the RNG factor means that people who really want an item have to gamble and thus probably spend more than they would if they could buy it straight from the crown store. Hopefully that's enough to counterbalance the amount of players who won't do loot boxes, period.
There are other things that come to mind, like limited time only flash sales, costumes that are poor quality and dye badly, mounts that are nothing more than flashy recolors or previous mounts, persistent bugs that don't get fixed with crown store items, and persistent issues with the game itself that don't get fixed.
I've enjoyed ESO and my $$ per hour entertainment cost is probably pretty close to yours. There are still elements of ZOS' business decisions that I criticize and that prevent me from wanting to spend more money on the game.
There is nothing Greedy about the Morrowind Chapter. Every game, specially MMOs charge for Expansions/Chapters whatever you want to call them. Just cause you don't think there was "enough" content or not good enough content to warrant paying doesn't mean it wasn't an expansion.
Crown Crates aren't really going anywhere. it's the new system companies are going to use to make extra revenue. You think ZoS is bad though with it look at some of the mobile app companies. There is a company that made mobile bowling game, every quarter they would release a "NEW" ball obviously just a reskin and charge 20$ for it. That change alone averaged that company 400-500k a quarter for that one game.
Things like Flash sales are a thing cause yeah they work. Just look at giant retail box stores. When they want to clear out inventory massive weekend sale or whatever same with car dealerships. None of this is anything ZoS is doing exclusively.
Morrowind had way less content than the industry standard of mmo expansions
No, morrowind has less content than industry standards for a single patch. For example. In World of Warcraft they give 3-4 content updates per expansion. A SINGLE one of those content updates has more content than Morrowind.
1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Actual cost per entertainment hour of the ESO forums: infinitely small.Edited by Feanor on February 27, 2018 7:07PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »GimpyPorcupine wrote: »...
Posts like this makes me wish this forum had a downvote button.
You completely and utterly missed the point here.
But this is exactly why they do not have a downvote button, they'd prefer to let posts like this flourish.
0 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Carbonised wrote: »GimpyPorcupine wrote: »...
Posts like this makes me wish this forum had a downvote button.
You completely and utterly missed the point here.
But this is exactly why they do not have a downvote button, they'd prefer to let posts like this flourish.
There used to be a LOL button, which people perverted into a downvote button, which is why it has since been removed. This is supposed to be a positive community, not a popularity contest.
0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Part of me really wants to go home and do the math, but if the wife sees it, I am probably toast. 5 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Part of me really wants to go home and do the math, but if the wife sees it, I am probably toast.
3 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭
See the previous statement on how that would impact steady monthly revenue before random impulse purchases.You are paying for a cosmetic item. You are paying for a pixel. But ZOS does not have to buy those pixels anywhere to put them together. They have to pay all the people putting it together and the electrical bill so they can see the pixels in the first place ... and the rent - and the other people who put pixels together that come in free updates.
The only reason to mark up random impulse buys so highly is to exploit the buyers and their desire for those items. You keep arguing it from a perspective of costs when they already have existing dependable avenues specifically to service such a thing. Again, their costs to produce pixel items are not what's increasing. They aren't suddenly paying their employees 100% more to produce those pixels, rent hasn't doubled in the past year, and server rent is covered through dependable revenue yet that revenue stream hasn't seen a price increase either.
ZOS operates on the same principle they have since the game launched. Offering items that players feel they can't live without and then gouging them on the price. It's not a matter of server costs, it's pure greed. We're talking about the same people who wanted to implement paid-mods for Skyrim to profit off of the labor of the player community.
Can't agree with your sentiment here ... not frOm the "exploitation" point or the "other dependable" sources of income. The market shifts all the time and no company out there can afford to say "nah it's ok, we make enough money". You have to strive to get better and improve. You hire talented people, you buy the latest equipment etc etc. Insert jokes about existing bugs here.
Do I understand why another competitor in this market with a record high of over 10 million people playing the game - all of them paying a monthly fee, started with microtransactions? I do understand it. Do I personally like the trend? Not necessarily. Do I feel nickel and dimed sometimes? Sure do. But the cat is out of the bag. It is proven that people are willing to pay for it. That's why the whole free to play with microtransactions came to be with all it's different variations.
Long story short I guess I define greed and exploitation different than you.
I feel like you completely lost track of the conversation and went onto a sidequest to say that microtransactions are good things. Which was neither the argument, the point, the rebuttal, or the original sentiment. You've taken a soap box method of relaying your point when this all started with how cost doesn't factor in the overpriced crown items. Nor was the argument that it cannot or should not, but that it does not and as mentioned should you find it to be the case of exploiting a select few to cover fees to keep the lights on, that would be even worse than what was previously indicated in my original point.
Your definition of greed and exploitation appear to be lost here in the wilderness and fall short of arriving at a conclusion. But I agree with your rant, companies love to expand and make more money. More profits. What was the definition of greed again?2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What was the definition of greed again?
I believe I can help with your question.
According to Merriam Webster, the following is the definition of greed.
GREED
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed
Edited by Raideen on February 27, 2018 7:35PM2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen movies where I fell asleep in the theatre
That's a waste of money with 0 time of entertainment (didn't even sleep well)
I like OP's post.
I endorse this message0 -
Ley✭✭✭✭✭
✭$440 spent.
Around 2,000 hours played.
$0.22 cost per hour.
Worth it.Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In two decades of playing MMOs, ive learned their are 4 types of mmos.
1) F2P = Completely free to play. These games are usually poor quality and/or on their deathbed.
2) Sub= By far the best bang for the buck. You pay one price and play as much as you want with no restrictions. And average sub is $15 a month. If you play just 6 hours a week that is 62 cents an hour for your entertainment.
3) Freemiums- AKA: Pay to Win. These games masquerade as free games but are the most expensive to play. Free mode is usually heavily restricted to the point of barely functional gameplay. Free players tend to end up being part of the content for paying players. Game of War was the king of the category as people got addicted and spent so much on the game they were taking out second mortgages to play. These games will literally rob you, especially if you dont have strong self control. They try to frustrate you with "road blocks" into buying upgrades.
4) Hybrids - Hybrids use a combination of the above. Offering subs, sometimes on different levels, for extra benefits. They also offer premium purchases but often limit those to vanity items or items that wont give a player a huge advantage over other players.
Number 2 is the least greedy game type that is worth investing your time, ironically. Number 1 isnt worth the time, the game is basically dead and likely has few to no devs working on it. Number 4 is ESO, and my second preferred option. Number 3 everyone should stay away from. They are money pits and the more you give them, the more they will want you to give them as they keep making what you got irrelevant and non competitive.... unless you upgrade of course.
2 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭
See the previous statement on how that would impact steady monthly revenue before random impulse purchases.You are paying for a cosmetic item. You are paying for a pixel. But ZOS does not have to buy those pixels anywhere to put them together. They have to pay all the people putting it together and the electrical bill so they can see the pixels in the first place ... and the rent - and the other people who put pixels together that come in free updates.
The only reason to mark up random impulse buys so highly is to exploit the buyers and their desire for those items. You keep arguing it from a perspective of costs when they already have existing dependable avenues specifically to service such a thing. Again, their costs to produce pixel items are not what's increasing. They aren't suddenly paying their employees 100% more to produce those pixels, rent hasn't doubled in the past year, and server rent is covered through dependable revenue yet that revenue stream hasn't seen a price increase either.
ZOS operates on the same principle they have since the game launched. Offering items that players feel they can't live without and then gouging them on the price. It's not a matter of server costs, it's pure greed. We're talking about the same people who wanted to implement paid-mods for Skyrim to profit off of the labor of the player community.
Can't agree with your sentiment here ... not frOm the "exploitation" point or the "other dependable" sources of income. The market shifts all the time and no company out there can afford to say "nah it's ok, we make enough money". You have to strive to get better and improve. You hire talented people, you buy the latest equipment etc etc. Insert jokes about existing bugs here.
Do I understand why another competitor in this market with a record high of over 10 million people playing the game - all of them paying a monthly fee, started with microtransactions? I do understand it. Do I personally like the trend? Not necessarily. Do I feel nickel and dimed sometimes? Sure do. But the cat is out of the bag. It is proven that people are willing to pay for it. That's why the whole free to play with microtransactions came to be with all it's different variations.
Long story short I guess I define greed and exploitation different than you.
I feel like you completely lost track of the conversation and went onto a sidequest to say that microtransactions are good things. Which was neither the argument, the point, the rebuttal, or the original sentiment. You've taken a soap box method of relaying your point when this all started with how cost doesn't factor in the overpriced crown items. Nor was the argument that it cannot or should not, but that it does not and as mentioned should you find it to be the case of exploiting a select few to cover fees to keep the lights on, that would be even worse than what was previously indicated in my original point.
Your definition of greed and exploitation appear to be lost here in the wilderness and fall short of arriving at a conclusion. But I agree with your rant, companies love to expand and make more money. More profits. What was the definition of greed again?
Sigh. I did not lose track nor was I ranting, I was merely trying to convey the message in your original ice-cream style trying to avoid the larger political theme looming in the background because it does not belong on this forum. Did not say microtransactions are good or bad either, but I leave you to your interpretation. However I know a rhetorical question when I see one.
Here is not a rhetorical question, but food for thought - well meant btw. What is the economical value of something?
CheersReal stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't want to know how much I spent, because I could find out I spent too much already.PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »That's great that you've played the game so much and enjoyed the relatively low cost for what you've paid for that entertainment.
When I call ZOS greedy, I'm looking at a couple specific examples.
1. The Morrowind "Chapter". Morrowind was pretty much a blatant "we've bundled several things that would have been good DLC into one so that we don't have to give it to ESO+ members for free and we're banking on TES III nostalgia to get it done."
2. Crown Crates and Apex Mounts. Loots boxes are a thing because the RNG factor means that people who really want an item have to gamble and thus probably spend more than they would if they could buy it straight from the crown store. Hopefully that's enough to counterbalance the amount of players who won't do loot boxes, period.
There are other things that come to mind, like limited time only flash sales, costumes that are poor quality and dye badly, mounts that are nothing more than flashy recolors or previous mounts, persistent bugs that don't get fixed with crown store items, and persistent issues with the game itself that don't get fixed.
I've enjoyed ESO and my $$ per hour entertainment cost is probably pretty close to yours. There are still elements of ZOS' business decisions that I criticize and that prevent me from wanting to spend more money on the game.
There is nothing Greedy about the Morrowind Chapter. Every game, specially MMOs charge for Expansions/Chapters whatever you want to call them. Just cause you don't think there was "enough" content or not good enough content to warrant paying doesn't mean it wasn't an expansion.
Crown Crates aren't really going anywhere. it's the new system companies are going to use to make extra revenue. You think ZoS is bad though with it look at some of the mobile app companies. There is a company that made mobile bowling game, every quarter they would release a "NEW" ball obviously just a reskin and charge 20$ for it. That change alone averaged that company 400-500k a quarter for that one game.
Things like Flash sales are a thing cause yeah they work. Just look at giant retail box stores. When they want to clear out inventory massive weekend sale or whatever same with car dealerships. None of this is anything ZoS is doing exclusively.
Just so it is clear: The issue that @VaranisArano is speaking toward is that ZoS redefined terms to get around former promises. Many people feel this was a bait and switch and I certainly can sympathize with their point of view. I don't take a hardline stand on it but I certainly understand the point. At the very least I do find it odd we can't simply buy the Chapter with Crowns, even if it at a higher rate than the other DLC.
(I just want to make it clear I found Morrowind entertaining and I got the special collector version, so there's that).Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on February 27, 2018 9:54PMUS/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess the next thing the original poster will say that Morrowind is not DLC or loot crates is not gambling.
I wonder what the original poster will say about maybe TES VI having only one save slot. But don't worry you can buy more save slots for $10 a save slot. After all it's cheap entertainment right? Think I am talking non sense? There is a game that just does this. A single player game with one or three save slots, but if you want more you can pay for it. Forget the game though.
If we are going to talk about cost per hour, let's just look at Skyrim. Let's say it cost $100 for base game and the 3 DLC when it came out. I am sure a lot of us had thousands of hours on it. So that is what a penny an hour if not even less? So your 40 cents an hour compared to 1 cent an hour is what paying 40X more. So if that is not greed then what is?
Let's not look at how much it costs but how much more we have to pay. 40X more for what we played before is a HUGE increase. If that is not greed, then what is?Edited by Davor on February 27, 2018 10:39PMNot my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭GimpyPorcupine wrote: »I cycled through all my toons yesterday, and using the /played command, tallied up the total time I've spent in this game. It came to just over 5400 hours.
So how much have I spent on this game?
Base game disk: $60
Morrowind disk: $60
2 years ESO+: $360
Total Crowns purchased: $400
Since this is the only game I play, I'll even add in:
XBox One: $500
XBox One X: $500
Elite Controller: $150
Rechargable batteries (estimate: $75)
So it's still less than $0.40/hour played.
I'm posting this as a response to all the "greedy ZOS" hate threads, and because some people apparently can't do Math.
Tell you what, go look at the Word of warcraft expansions and see how much content they offer at a much lower price vs ZoS's "chapter" morrowind, which was essentially a slightly bigger wrothgar with shiny stuff and nostalgia. Then rethink your thread.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was also thinking that ESO is a great entertainment deal.
OP was talking about time spent, not entertainment.
EDIT: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4902275#Comment_4902275
Issue with that being time spent in a product in an entertainment segment of the industry goes hand in hand with Enjoyment of said product (entertainment).
And so time spent in the game will also equal too or be less or more than the entertainment value of said product.
Ultimately vs things like the witcher and WoW in terms of Content provided through purchase they are appearing more and more greedy as the moment goes by.
Just look at the 5000 Crown Research reduction scroll of 15 days. Think about it "5000" crowns for what is basically a Convenience. People use that as a justification for the prices being fine as they are which gives ZoS an excuse. These people are inadvertently advocating ZoSs greedy and malicious practices (and indeed industry wide as well) that frankly are not even necessary in the industry which has been proven by various companies now, the most obvious example being CDPR.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After the cost of the game, it cost 15$ a month for unlimited play. Which is less then going to a movie that last 2 hours.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I rarely, if ever hear people calling ZOS greedy for the cost/value of the game itself, the DLC or ESO+. I think most of the playerbase thinks those are appropriately priced.
I do hear people calling ZOS greedy for high crown store prices on items that are recolors, have obvious flaws, are limited time only, or that obviously limit the in game system in order to get people to use the crown store.0 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Part of me really wants to go home and do the math, but if the wife sees it, I am probably toast.
Does this look scary?0
