Actual cost per entertainment hour

GimpyPorcupine

I cycled through all my toons yesterday, and using the /played command, tallied up the total time I've spent in this game. It came to just over 5400 hours.

So how much have I spent on this game?

Base game disk: $60
Morrowind disk: $60
2 years ESO+: $360
Total Crowns purchased: $400

Since this is the only game I play, I'll even add in:

XBox One: $500
XBox One X: $500
Elite Controller: $150
Rechargable batteries (estimate: $75)

So it's still less than $0.40/hour played.

I'm posting this as a response to all the "greedy ZOS" hate threads, and because some people apparently can't do Math.

AdamSC

Was also thinking that ESO is a great entertainment deal. I am only 56 hours in and have not scratched the surface of the content yet.

I paid $40 for the edition I am playing and already it is only .71 per hour of play. Will probably buy Morrowwind and some other content, but for now only the base game.

GimpyPorcupine

AdamSC wrote: »

Was also thinking that ESO is a great entertainment deal. I am only 56 hours in and have not scratched the surface of the content yet.

I paid $40 for the edition I am playing and already it is only .71 per hour of play. Will probably buy Morrowwind and some other content, but for now only the base game.

I think Morrowind is on sale now, US $29.99.

VaranisArano

That's great that you've played the game so much and enjoyed the relatively low cost for what you've paid for that entertainment.

When I call ZOS greedy, I'm looking at a couple specific examples.

1. The Morrowind "Chapter". Morrowind was pretty much a blatant "we've bundled several things that would have been good DLC into one so that we don't have to give it to ESO+ members for free and we're banking on TES III nostalgia to get it done."

2. Crown Crates and Apex Mounts. Loots boxes are a thing because the RNG factor means that people who really want an item have to gamble and thus probably spend more than they would if they could buy it straight from the crown store. Hopefully that's enough to counterbalance the amount of players who won't do loot boxes, period.

There are other things that come to mind, like limited time only flash sales, costumes that are poor quality and dye badly, mounts that are nothing more than flashy recolors or previous mounts, persistent bugs that don't get fixed with crown store items, and persistent issues with the game itself that don't get fixed.

I've enjoyed ESO and my $$ per hour entertainment cost is probably pretty close to yours. There are still elements of ZOS' business decisions that I criticize and that prevent me from wanting to spend more money on the game.

DMuehlhausen

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's great that you've played the game so much and enjoyed the relatively low cost for what you've paid for that entertainment.

When I call ZOS greedy, I'm looking at a couple specific examples.

1. The Morrowind "Chapter". Morrowind was pretty much a blatant "we've bundled several things that would have been good DLC into one so that we don't have to give it to ESO+ members for free and we're banking on TES III nostalgia to get it done."

2. Crown Crates and Apex Mounts. Loots boxes are a thing because the RNG factor means that people who really want an item have to gamble and thus probably spend more than they would if they could buy it straight from the crown store. Hopefully that's enough to counterbalance the amount of players who won't do loot boxes, period.

There are other things that come to mind, like limited time only flash sales, costumes that are poor quality and dye badly, mounts that are nothing more than flashy recolors or previous mounts, persistent bugs that don't get fixed with crown store items, and persistent issues with the game itself that don't get fixed.

I've enjoyed ESO and my $$ per hour entertainment cost is probably pretty close to yours. There are still elements of ZOS' business decisions that I criticize and that prevent me from wanting to spend more money on the game.

There is nothing Greedy about the Morrowind Chapter. Every game, specially MMOs charge for Expansions/Chapters whatever you want to call them. Just cause you don't think there was "enough" content or not good enough content to warrant paying doesn't mean it wasn't an expansion.

Crown Crates aren't really going anywhere. it's the new system companies are going to use to make extra revenue. You think ZoS is bad though with it look at some of the mobile app companies. There is a company that made mobile bowling game, every quarter they would release a "NEW" ball obviously just a reskin and charge 20$ for it. That change alone averaged that company 400-500k a quarter for that one game.

Things like Flash sales are a thing cause yeah they work. Just look at giant retail box stores. When they want to clear out inventory massive weekend sale or whatever same with car dealerships. None of this is anything ZoS is doing exclusively.

GimpyPorcupine

@VaranisArano , I'm totally OK with them putting a new class (Warden) and a new game mode (Battlegrounds) behind a paywall, even for ESO+ members. If it had just been the Vvardenfell zone, quests, and trial, then I agree that DLC would have been the appropriate route to take. And when the new chapter comes out this year, then they had better add something worthy of a paywall and not just a large zone.

I don't buy Crown Crates; I do collect houses though, and the Crowns I've purchased have been 1) bought on sale and 2) used to buy Crown-only houses, and Mundus stones for one of my homes, the banker and merchant assistants, and that's about it. I won't knock people for what they spend their money on, nor will I knock ZOS for providing items that people seem to want.

swippy

i love breakdowns like this.

i remember years ago my buddy told me he was gonna pick up WoW to save money. as someone who mostly gamed for free at the time, i didn't understand how paying a monthly fee was saving money. he explained that for $15 (or whatever number) he can have fun all night, all month, but if he were to go "out" once that same amount would be gone in the first 30 minutes of the night.

i love being wrong.

VaranisArano

Truth is, I don't mind the cost of Morrowind. Because of how they did it, I really don't mind paying for what was essentially 3 DLCs bundled into one.

However, I do think that ZOS purposefully bundled 3 DLCs into one specifically so they didn't have to give that content to ESO+ subscribers (I'm not an ESO+ subscriber, so this wouldn't have impacted me either way).

I don't mind that they did it and charged money for it, but I won't pretend to be blind to what they did and why they charged money for it.

TheCyberDruid

One outfit slot costs 13 €. One outfit change token costs about 3.75 €. I think that is what people call 'greedy', not your own personal spending statistics. But hey, you are right! We all should center our perception around your slice of reality in the future.

VaranisArano

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

One outfit slot costs 13 €. One outfit change token costs about 3.75 €. I think that is what people call 'greedy', not your own personal spending statistics. But hey, you are right! We all should center our perception around your slice of reality in the future.

My favorite cost comparison for the Outfitting System is this.

Buy a New Character Slot - 1500 Crowns!
Buy another outfit slot for that new character - 1500 Crowns!

Aliyavana

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's great that you've played the game so much and enjoyed the relatively low cost for what you've paid for that entertainment.

When I call ZOS greedy, I'm looking at a couple specific examples.

1. The Morrowind "Chapter". Morrowind was pretty much a blatant "we've bundled several things that would have been good DLC into one so that we don't have to give it to ESO+ members for free and we're banking on TES III nostalgia to get it done."

2. Crown Crates and Apex Mounts. Loots boxes are a thing because the RNG factor means that people who really want an item have to gamble and thus probably spend more than they would if they could buy it straight from the crown store. Hopefully that's enough to counterbalance the amount of players who won't do loot boxes, period.

There are other things that come to mind, like limited time only flash sales, costumes that are poor quality and dye badly, mounts that are nothing more than flashy recolors or previous mounts, persistent bugs that don't get fixed with crown store items, and persistent issues with the game itself that don't get fixed.

I've enjoyed ESO and my $$ per hour entertainment cost is probably pretty close to yours. There are still elements of ZOS' business decisions that I criticize and that prevent me from wanting to spend more money on the game.

There is nothing Greedy about the Morrowind Chapter. Every game, specially MMOs charge for Expansions/Chapters whatever you want to call them. Just cause you don't think there was "enough" content or not good enough content to warrant paying doesn't mean it wasn't an expansion.

Crown Crates aren't really going anywhere. it's the new system companies are going to use to make extra revenue. You think ZoS is bad though with it look at some of the mobile app companies. There is a company that made mobile bowling game, every quarter they would release a "NEW" ball obviously just a reskin and charge 20$ for it. That change alone averaged that company 400-500k a quarter for that one game.

Things like Flash sales are a thing cause yeah they work. Just look at giant retail box stores. When they want to clear out inventory massive weekend sale or whatever same with car dealerships. None of this is anything ZoS is doing exclusively.

Morrowind had way less content than the industry standard of mmo expansions

GimpyPorcupine

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

One outfit slot costs 13 €. One outfit change token costs about 3.75 €. I think that is what people call 'greedy', not your own personal spending statistics. But hey, you are right! We all should center our perception around your slice of reality in the future.

Well, I didn't ask ZOS to spend money developing the outfit system, and I'm not that worried about changing my clothes, so I won't be buying extra slots. But if a person wants to be able to do it, but doesn't want to pay for it because she does not believe that ZOS should recoup the cost of providing it, then who actually is the greedy one?

Rouven

Tsk tsk tsk. You forgot your electricity, internet provider, power drinks/chips/pizza bill.

Aside from the point that I don't think an 8h eso-workday represents the average person playing this game (which I could be totally off of course lol) I totally agree, this hobby is still one of the cheapest around!

But alas the perception of ZOS being "greedy" as you put it has nothing to do with it. It's in my opinion the balance of the regular content updates (for free if you so will), the quality of it (and the crown store items), the variety offered and so on and so forth.

Personally I still think this is a very generous B2P offer. The ESO+ offer is still very good as well - but the 1500 monthly crowns feel like nothing.

I'd dial the "expensive" limited time offers down (if I thought there is a perception issue), but I guess it's working for them so they must do it right.

Kodrac

The greedy part comes in the form of pricing for crown store items. Not all, but some are flat out ridiculous. Housing, furniture packs, limited time mounts (that show up later in crates), name changes, style parlor ($10 to change your characters look, really?) and now $15 to add an outfit slot.

It's great you get your money's worth playing the game. So do the rest of us. But some of us are less than pleased with the price gouging of the crown store. They've taken what's usually credit sinks and made them wallet sinks. I get it, it's a business but they're so over the top they shoot themselves in the foot. If you want to white knight something, do it for something less detestable.

GimpyPorcupine

Rouven wrote: »

Tsk tsk tsk. You forgot your electricity, internet provider, power drinks/chips/pizza bill.

I telecommute, so I have to have internet for that, and I have to eat whether or not I'm gaming, so I don't include these costs. (Actually, I don't pay for internet, wife works for an ISP so we get it free.)

N00BxV1

- Base Game w/ Explorer's Pack: $60
- Gold Edition upgrade: $25
- Morrowind CE upgrade: $60
- Crowns: $657
- ESO+: $165 (11 months)
Total ESO cost (12 months of play): $967

- Custom built PC: ~$3000
- XboxOne controller x2: $120
- XboxOne play/charge kit: $25
Total gaming rig cost: $3145

- Total cost of ESO and Rig: $4112
- Total hours played: 2269
$4112 / 2269 = $1.82 cost per hour

Morgul667

Outfit cost is crazyyyyyyyyyyy

Nestor

OK, yes, some Cosmetics cost real money. But you don't have to spend the money on those, just pay for the sub. $15 a month is cheap entertainment, that is like a ticket to watch a movie on essentially a big flat screen in a large room with dozens of annoying people and stale $6 popcorn. Unless you have a Minor League team, $15 is not going to get you into any sporting event unless it's a fringe sport and you like being one of 12 in the stadium. Concerts? Unless you are lucky to catch a band on their way up, no one who is going to charge $15 is worth listening too. TV, nothing but recycled sitcoms, reality TV which just means they are lousy actors, and watching millionaires play with a ball.

50 Cents an evening for even an hour or two of non TV entertainment is cheap.

Back to those Cosmetics, the sub gives you 1500 Crowns, more than enough to buy an outfit or two each month, or an accessory pack or something to set your characters apart, if you can't already do that with Crafting.

Rouven

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Tsk tsk tsk. You forgot your electricity, internet provider, power drinks/chips/pizza bill.

I telecommute, so I have to have internet for that, and I have to eat whether or not I'm gaming, so I don't include these costs. (Actually, I don't pay for internet, wife works for an ISP so we get it free.)

Some people might even include an opportunity cost! You know, time is cash.
Regardless, good post - in case it didn't come across I agree with your sentiment, I just think it does not help per se because it kinda misses the mark on where the perception comes from.

My own calculation would be less because of course my PC would be a write off from the start

LordSemaj

Walked to the park: $0
Talked to real friends: $0
Told jokes for laughs: $0
Wrestled with my mate: $0
Did fun things in bed: $0
Played with the children: $0
Inhaled oxygen: $0

Total Hours Enjoying Life: 382948
Total Cost of Happiness: $0 per Hour

We don't need to spend a dime on entertainment. We do so to fund that source of entertainment because we want it to continue. Movies used to be quite cheap and have gone up in price because the costs of producing one has as well. Ice cream and soda pop is no longer as cheap as it one was because the materials have also risen in value. People complain about ZOS greed because they extract substantially more funds from the playerbase than what the entertainment costs them to provide.

Mounts didn't suddenly become $10 per person more expensive to produce, so why is the new one so much more expensive? Character appearance changes are free in other games and 100% free for new characters created, so why does it cost $10 per change here? Does it really demand $15 to change your character's name? I type more characters than that in zone chat in every message. Does an appearance slot demand 1500 crowns when I can only wear one at a time or is that just developers being moneygrubbing?

There are companies that run exchanges that make millions on fractions of a cent. Behold the power of rounding.

Smmokkee

Because there is games like mhw where they dont try to chip you at every turn.. so refreshing not seeing a crown store in a game.

Rouven

LordSemaj wrote: »

Walked to the park: $0
Talked to real friends: $0
Told jokes for laughs: $0
Wrestled with my mate: $0
Did fun things in bed: $0
Played with the children: $0
Inhaled oxygen: $0

Total Hours Enjoying Life: 382948
Total Cost of Happiness: $0 per Hour

We don't need to spend a dime on entertainment. We do so to fund that source of entertainment because we want it to continue. Movies used to be quite cheap and have gone up in price because the costs of producing one has as well. Ice cream and soda pop is no longer as cheap as it one was because the materials have also risen in value. People complain about ZOS greed because they extract substantially more funds from the playerbase than what the entertainment costs them to provide.

Mounts didn't suddenly become $10 per person more expensive to produce, so why is the new one so much more expensive? Character appearance changes are free in other games and 100% free for new characters created, so why does it cost $10 per change here? Does it really demand $15 to change your character's name? I type more characters than that in zone chat in every message. Does an appearance slot demand 1500 crowns when I can only wear one at a time or is that just developers being moneygrubbing?

There are companies that run exchanges that make millions on fractions of a cent. Behold the power of rounding.

Well, you did kinda answer your own question. Ice cream and soda has gone up, so you have to pay people more to be able to afford it. The production value has gone up because you hired more qualified people ... who are paid "more". People work at a place for longer usually get a raise if they do a good job. My phone bill has gone up in the last few years, maybe ZOS bill for servers/infrastructure has gone up too? Or rent.

Juju_beans

For $15/month you have 24/7 access to a game for entertainment.

Can't beat that.

LordSemaj

Rouven wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

Walked to the park: $0
Talked to real friends: $0
Told jokes for laughs: $0
Wrestled with my mate: $0
Did fun things in bed: $0
Played with the children: $0
Inhaled oxygen: $0

Total Hours Enjoying Life: 382948
Total Cost of Happiness: $0 per Hour

We don't need to spend a dime on entertainment. We do so to fund that source of entertainment because we want it to continue. Movies used to be quite cheap and have gone up in price because the costs of producing one has as well. Ice cream and soda pop is no longer as cheap as it one was because the materials have also risen in value. People complain about ZOS greed because they extract substantially more funds from the playerbase than what the entertainment costs them to provide.

Mounts didn't suddenly become $10 per person more expensive to produce, so why is the new one so much more expensive? Character appearance changes are free in other games and 100% free for new characters created, so why does it cost $10 per change here? Does it really demand $15 to change your character's name? I type more characters than that in zone chat in every message. Does an appearance slot demand 1500 crowns when I can only wear one at a time or is that just developers being moneygrubbing?

There are companies that run exchanges that make millions on fractions of a cent. Behold the power of rounding.

Well, you did kinda answer your own question. Ice cream and soda has gone up, so you have to pay people more to be able to afford it. The production value has gone up because you hired more qualified people ... who are paid "more". People work at a place for longer usually get a raise if they do a good job. My phone bill has gone up in the last few years, maybe ZOS bill for servers/infrastructure has gone up too? Or rent.

We're not paying for their rent. We're paying for cosmetic items. You're saying they're okay with gouging a select few individuals to pay their rent, which is even worse. If rent went up, the sub fee would too, not every cash shop item they put out.

What I wrote acknowledges that costs go up and so do the price of things. What I wrote also acknowledges that the cost of producing a pixel mount is not what's going up and the crown cost only burdens folks who want the item. So it's very difficult to side with the assumption that this is all about server costs instead of pure greed.

Linaleah

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

One outfit slot costs 13 €. One outfit change token costs about 3.75 €. I think that is what people call 'greedy', not your own personal spending statistics. But hey, you are right! We all should center our perception around your slice of reality in the future.

this. normaly, I'm all for companies making money off their product, but that is just.... pushing it too far IMO.

outfit slots at that cost? should at a minimum be accountwide. and speaking of accountwide - crown purchases should apply to BOTH US and EU. making you buy things twice if you happen to play on both servers? is pretty darn greedy in my book

LordSemaj

Linaleah wrote: »

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

One outfit slot costs 13 €. One outfit change token costs about 3.75 €. I think that is what people call 'greedy', not your own personal spending statistics. But hey, you are right! We all should center our perception around your slice of reality in the future.

this. normaly, I'm all for companies making money off their product, but that is just.... pushing it too far IMO.

outfit slots at that cost? should at a minimum be accountwide. and speaking of accountwide - crown purchases should apply to BOTH US and EU. making you buy things twice if you happen to play on both servers? is pretty darn greedy in my book

This. The developers have no way of knowing how well a new mount will sell or how many people will delve into their outfit system. They can project but it's also one-time costs that don't impact their ability to bring us the game. ESO plus is a recurring subscription active while the player is playing the game, if anyone would see charge increases for cost load it would be the ones providing money on a regular basis. Not one time sporadic purchases that impact only a minority of users heavily, and often for non-gameplay purposes that serve as an escape hatch for those who would have to delete, recreate, relevel, and reachieve a brand new character to accomplish the change. Which people would gladly pay tooth and nail to avoid, something ZOS is fully aware of.

Lysette

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I cycled through all my toons yesterday, and using the /played command, tallied up the total time I've spent in this game. It came to just over 5400 hours.

So how much have I spent on this game?

Base game disk: $60
Morrowind disk: $60
2 years ESO+: $360
Total Crowns purchased: $400

Since this is the only game I play, I'll even add in:

XBox One: $500
XBox One X: $500
Elite Controller: $150
Rechargable batteries (estimate: $75)

So it's still less than $0.40/hour played.

I'm posting this as a response to all the "greedy ZOS" hate threads, and because some people apparently can't do Math.

It is quite simple - most people, who have family and a career cannot play 5400 hours - this is the time student spend on their study in about 3 years - including what they do at home and in practice semesters. This kind of time is just not at their disposition - they might with luck get to like 300-500 hours per year - ESO does not exist for 10+ years yet, so for them it is a lot more than it is for you - and to get the most out of their time, they will buy more stuff from the crown store than you do as well - and eventually do that for more than one family member - for them ESO is not as cheap as it is for you.

Carbonised

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

...

Posts like this makes me wish this forum had a downvote button.

You completely and utterly missed the point here.

Rouven

LordSemaj wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

Walked to the park: $0
Talked to real friends: $0
Told jokes for laughs: $0
Wrestled with my mate: $0
Did fun things in bed: $0
Played with the children: $0
Inhaled oxygen: $0

Total Hours Enjoying Life: 382948
Total Cost of Happiness: $0 per Hour

We don't need to spend a dime on entertainment. We do so to fund that source of entertainment because we want it to continue. Movies used to be quite cheap and have gone up in price because the costs of producing one has as well. Ice cream and soda pop is no longer as cheap as it one was because the materials have also risen in value. People complain about ZOS greed because they extract substantially more funds from the playerbase than what the entertainment costs them to provide.

Mounts didn't suddenly become $10 per person more expensive to produce, so why is the new one so much more expensive? Character appearance changes are free in other games and 100% free for new characters created, so why does it cost $10 per change here? Does it really demand $15 to change your character's name? I type more characters than that in zone chat in every message. Does an appearance slot demand 1500 crowns when I can only wear one at a time or is that just developers being moneygrubbing?

There are companies that run exchanges that make millions on fractions of a cent. Behold the power of rounding.

Well, you did kinda answer your own question. Ice cream and soda has gone up, so you have to pay people more to be able to afford it. The production value has gone up because you hired more qualified people ... who are paid "more". People work at a place for longer usually get a raise if they do a good job. My phone bill has gone up in the last few years, maybe ZOS bill for servers/infrastructure has gone up too? Or rent.

We're not paying for their rent. We're paying for cosmetic items. You're saying they're okay with gouging a select few individuals to pay their rent, which is even worse. If rent went up, the sub fee would too, not every cash shop item they put out.

What I wrote acknowledges that costs go up and so do the price of things. What I wrote also acknowledges that the cost of producing a pixel mount is not what's going up and the crown cost only burdens folks who want the item. So it's very difficult to side with the assumption that this is all about server costs instead of pure greed.

Ummm ... I don't know how to say this, the cost of a product is more than the cost of the material of producing it.

Here ... if you would buy a painting, are you paying for the actual paint and linen?

If you buy a $600 phone, how much of that is material cost and how much intellectual property?

The main offer is: Buy the base game - you can play for free. But that does not keep the lights on for years. Of course they are trying to create a demand by waving the shinies in front of your eyes and it can be frustrating to see.

Is it greed that makes the supermarket put the "expensive" items conveniently at your eye level and the "cheap" products on the bottom shelf?

Let's try this easier befoer I go off tangent here.

You are paying for a cosmetic item. You are paying for a pixel. But ZOS does not have to buy those pixels anywhere to put them together. They have to pay all the people putting it together and the electrical bill so they can see the pixels in the first place ... and the rent - and the other people who put pixels together that come in free updates.

neverwalk

my internet costs me $60.00 canadian per month to play ESO, plus about 600.00 canadian for game dlc's morrowind and 3+ years of ESO+ = equals PRICELESS. I'm having fun.

Hurtfan

ESO is also a money saver for me too. On average I'd buy 1-2 new games a month, not buying any games right now. ESO is taking care of my video game addiction nicely.