Explain this mount gank argument to me

Kuramas9tails

So in area chat this weekend, some people were complaining about gankers and how you can't counter them while on a mount. My boyfriend is a ganker and he dueled me enough times to teach me what to expect in a gankers rotation and counter it. Since then, the only way I end up dying to a ganker is from my fault (i.e. not going stealth when looking at my inventory or not bar swapping to the right bar when I get caught off guard) or two gankers are together and hit me at once. But when I am on a mount, as soon as I hear a ganker close the distance, I immediately roll dodge off my mount and shield up because I can dodge the Incap if I do that.

I am also a Mageblade so I can go immediately in stealth and use inner light to pull the ganker out. Now, because I said this in area chat, immediately 3+ people were being sarcastic with me, saying "Oh I am sorry that I am not unkillable like you" and even saying some really offhand remarks that were really rude when I simply stated you can counter gankers, you just need to pay attention and learn.

The only thing I can think that would be a gankers dream is if you have no stamina on your mount and the animation of you falling off is a good split second to die without defending. That makes sense to me. You can't flx a wall and fight at the same time. There's animations associated with it. But at least with a mount, you can immediately get off before you get kicked off so I am failing to see what these people in area chat in Vvardenfell were complaining about. Can someone explain this to me if I am missing something? Or did I trigger some complainers who don't want to learn to counter a ganker.

Arobain

nice post, yeah my ice mage usually gets taken out by nightblades if i'm stunned without being able to put a ward up, since i only have like 14k health in pvp with him, however i can usually always take em out or send em running if they try to hit me and dont kill me before i can put a ward up

Kuramas9tails

Arobain wrote: »

nice post, yeah my ice mage usually gets taken out by nightblades if i'm stunned without being able to put a ward up, since i only have like 14k health in pvp with him, however i can usually always take em out or send em running if they try to hit me and dont kill me before i can put a ward up

How....do you have 14K health? If I saw you, I would tell you your food dropped. lol.

Feanor

Horse ganking is the lowest form one can fall down too. Bonus points if you do it on a lvl 22 with no stamina leveled on the horse yet. There are many people who want to fight only when they know they will win. Explains the love for the Nightblade class too (and the class being very strong outside ganking too off).

Vizier

I've no sympathy for the ganked. Be aware. Don't let your horse stamina run too low. Don't ride the most traveled paths between keeps by yourself. Make a detour off the beaten track. Use terrain to limit LOS...shrug. In Cyrodiil you are always a target...get used to it.

josiahva

Its the horse-fall stun that is the worst part of horse-ganking, its ridiculous because you are dead by the time you get up...gankers are scum to begin with, but horse-gankers are the most cowardly of a cowardly lot. This is really only a problem if your horse training isnt complete, so new toons essentially. I have had the music off on this game for YEARS and have never "heard" a ganker use a distance closing ability. I do see them fairly often and just use an ability to dismount, or I just ignore them and keep riding, depending on whether I am actually going somewhere or not.

VaranisArano

You can counter gankers even while mounted, but that requires paying attention, being alert to surroundings, expecting a gank when in certain areas and alone, and knowing how to react to counter their usual opening moveset. After that point, its regular 1v1.

So, more than most players want to do, I guess.

Personally, I can usually survive to get to the 1v1 part, where I fall apart because I'm on my group healer build and I'm by no means a good 1v1 player. But I can survive the ganking part of the attack.

Beardimus

People don't like to counter gankers
People don't like to counter sorcs

They like to whine. And are too proud to say that they just aren't good enough....

geonsocal

got ganked on my horse this weekend...been a while since that has happened...

was playing a 7 light armor wearing magplar/healer type...the first time two lethal arrows got me for about 22k - yikes...

second time it was a few more arrows and I was reading my map close to a resource flag...

after that I made sure to slot radiant magelight...

just one of those things...probably won't happen again for months...

Kuramas9tails

josiahva wrote: »

Its the horse-fall stun that is the worst part of horse-ganking, its ridiculous because you are dead by the time you get up...gankers are scum to begin with, but horse-gankers are the most cowardly of a cowardly lot. This is really only a problem if your horse training isnt complete, so new toons essentially. I have had the music off on this game for YEARS and have never "heard" a ganker use a distance closing ability. I do see them fairly often and just use an ability to dismount, or I just ignore them and keep riding, depending on whether I am actually going somewhere or not.

I don't see gankers as scum. They are an assassin class. It creates a unique form of fighting that keeps both parties on their feet. I have tried ganking myself but I am not good at it so I gave up but when I successfully get away from a gank, I feel a sense of accomplishment, knowing I outwitted an assassin with a bounty on my head. heh. I'd rather come face to face (or rather face to shadow) with a gankblade over a mag DK any day. That flame damage and DOT eats my shield. Not to mention gankers are a good way to get people to pair up and watch each other while bombers encourage zerg spacing. It's a war out there. No one is safe.

Lysette

Feanor wrote: »

Horse ganking is the lowest form one can fall down too. Bonus points if you do it on a lvl 22 with no stamina leveled on the horse yet. There are many people who want to fight only when they know they will win. Explains the love for the Nightblade class too (and the class being very strong outside ganking too off).

That is actually according to Sun Tzu the art of war - do not start a fight if you haven't won it already.

Kuramas9tails

geonsocal wrote: »

got ganked on my horse this weekend...been a while since that has happened...

was playing a 7 light armor wearing magplar/healer type...the first time two lethal arrows got me for about 22k - yikes...

second time it was a few more arrows and I was reading my map close to a resource flag...

after that I made sure to slot radiant magelight...

just one of those things...probably won't happen again for months...

Is spamming lethal arrow a gank build? Because to me, that is worse than an "Ambush Incap" gank build. I find myself roll dodging and cloak when I hear that snipe sound, even if it's a greenie shooting an enemy.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

geonsocal wrote: »

got ganked on my horse this weekend...been a while since that has happened...

was playing a 7 light armor wearing magplar/healer type...the first time two lethal arrows got me for about 22k - yikes...

second time it was a few more arrows and I was reading my map close to a resource flag...

after that I made sure to slot radiant magelight...

just one of those things...probably won't happen again for months...

Same thing happened to me on Saturday. It has been a long time since I was ganked and thought, man there was nothing I could have done. I think the horse complicates things because it takes a bit longer to react when mounted. My recap was book ended by two lethal arrows of about 12k each, and I had the standard, PI, LAs, Enchants, in the middle. The instant I felt the first damage hit, I was blocking and shielding, but by the time I actually dismounted from my horse, the second Lethal Arrow finished me off.

I am not one that thinks ganking should be removed, but at the same time, I am not sure that properly built characters should get effectively one shot off their mounts.

Vizier

There is almost always an attack indicator whether it's sound or the entering combat. It's true some have a difficult time getting off their horse in time. I'm not sure why that is. Block works great.

It's just the funniest thing to see folks want to take absolutely no precautions while riding, probably wearing light/Med / divines and then cry about getting shot off their horse.

Just so you know...It's actually a great feeling seeing a dead character along with his dead horse. It doesn't happen that often, but it's a very satisfying kill.

geonsocal

I rarely use magelight on any of my characters, most of them are in at least 5 pieces of heavy armor - to which - good luck trying to gank me...

however, if you plan on standing around in 7 pieces of light, or medium, and you're not wearing a defensive set like brass fortress or impenetrable armor - magelight ain't such a bad idea to have slotted...

I actually don't mind getting targeted, my health pool is in the low 20k's (on a few different characters) - so, i know someone will see that as an excellent opportunity to get me out of there in 3 or 4 shots...

it just surprised me that only two lethal arrows (plus there was a poisoned effect) showed up on my death recap...

since I was on my horse - not much to do except slot magelight...

more reason to kill those sneaky, stinky bow users (I have 4 characters myself who take advantage of using the bow )...

personally, at times I myself prefer to to say hi to my enemies from afar...

most of the time when I get hit by an arrow shot while riding my mount - I'll just keep right on riding...it's just that light and medium armor makes you a lot more vulnerable to them...

unknowngamer

The thing about ganking/counter-ganking is that it all revolves around proper builds and matchups. In my experience, most people that 'brag' about surviving a gank or think its all to easy don't realise that if a ganker is properly set up and aware of the situation, a failed gank is on the ganker not the ganked.

Proper gankers build for ganking and only that. I see far too many gankers out there slotting impen on their gear and that have ability bars revolving around 'oh ***' moments. Trying to build a ganker that can also effectively duel/1vx is a pointless gesture as you end up inadequately fulfilling either role. Proper gank builds preclude the ability to be effective brawlers. A gank build should focus on 100% damage at the expense of survivability. This is what makes ganking a niche role and a one trick pony. Assassin builds don't rake in high AP as they require waiting for the right target to come along : low hp, light/medium armour builds. If your ganking someone in heavy - which is easily 75% of Cyrodiil btw, you are doing it wrong.

For the OP, I surmise you encounter that type of attitude because when it comes to ganking, if the right target is chosen, there is little one can do; frustrating, but it is simply part of the game. Hell, most people don't even slot radiant because its one and only purpose is to counter a gank and you have to sacrifice a skill slot, or Inner light for magicka users for it.

I'll give an example. For anyone wanting to gank, forget about the bow snipe/ambush/incap - it is easily exploitable for the reasons OP points out. A melee 2h gank build running 5PC Sword-Singer, 5PC Automaton 1PC kragh/Veli two-shots most light/medium targets under 26k. Wrecking blow from stealth into Onslaught = dead target if onslaught crits. If it doesn't, a light attack weave into execute seals the deal. Also slot a damage poison as enchants don't trigger off abilities but poisons do. For even more cheese and a higher damage ceiling with the tradeoff of less guaranteed damage, slot a 4pc damage set with 2pc Selene/Veli. This can push up to 30k damage. Slot concealed for stealth speed, use speed pots and with the nerf to crouch damage, you can now safely approach targets from the front using cloak.

This is great setup for zerg surfing and siege line disruption which IMO is the best way to gank nowadays. Solo roamers tend to be high skill and built for 1vx whereas zergers/siegers are more likely to run light/medium for zerg focused builds. Sure you will die if caught, you wont be considered an ub3r-l33t tw1tch pro gam3r but for some people, myself included, the metagame of setting up and executing the perfect kill is highly rewarding.

In the end people that complain about gankers need to understand one thing - it exists and you either learn to live with it and accept gank builds have their weaknesses, or hit the uninstall button.

Twenty0zTsunami

Lysette wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Horse ganking is the lowest form one can fall down too. Bonus points if you do it on a lvl 22 with no stamina leveled on the horse yet. There are many people who want to fight only when they know they will win. Explains the love for the Nightblade class too (and the class being very strong outside ganking too off).

That is actually according to Sun Tzu the art of war - do not start a fight if you haven't won it already.

I always found those arguments to be quite hilarious "bwaaaah he only atk'd me cause he knew he'd win" well yeah you'd have to be stupid to attack someone you didnt think you could beat.

geonsocal

unknowngamer wrote: »

The thing about ganking/counter-ganking is that it all revolves around proper builds and matchups. In my experience, most people that 'brag' about surviving a gank or think its all to easy don't realise that if a ganker is properly set up and aware of the situation, a failed gank is on the ganker not the ganked.

Proper gankers build for ganking and only that. I see far too many gankers out there slotting impen on their gear and that have ability bars revolving around 'oh ***' moments. Trying to build a ganker that can also effectively duel/1vx is a pointless gesture as you end up inadequately fulfilling either role. Proper gank builds preclude the ability to be effective brawlers. A gank build should focus on 100% damage at the expense of survivability. This is what makes ganking a niche role and a one trick pony. Assassin builds don't rake in high AP as they require waiting for the right target to come along : low hp, light/medium armour builds. If your ganking someone in heavy - which is easily 75% of Cyrodiil btw, you are doing it wrong.

For the OP, I surmise you encounter that type of attitude because when it comes to ganking, if the right target is chosen, there is little one can do; frustrating, but it is simply part of the game. Hell, most people don't even slot radiant because its one and only purpose is to counter a gank and you have to sacrifice a skill slot, or Inner light for magicka users for it.

I'll give an example. For anyone wanting to gank, forget about the bow snipe/ambush/incap - it is easily exploitable for the reasons OP points out. A melee 2h gank build running 5PC Sword-Singer, 5PC Automaton 1PC kragh/Veli two-shots most light/medium targets under 26k. Wrecking blow from stealth into Onslaught = dead target if onslaught crits. If it doesn't, a light attack weave into execute seals the deal. Also slot a damage poison as enchants don't trigger off abilities but poisons do. For even more cheese and a higher damage ceiling with the tradeoff of less guaranteed damage, slot a 4pc damage set with 2pc Selene/Veli. This can push up to 30k damage. Slot concealed for stealth speed, use speed pots and with the nerf to crouch damage, you can now safely approach targets from the front using cloak.

This is great setup for zerg surfing and siege line disruption which IMO is the best way to gank nowadays. Solo roamers tend to be high skill and built for 1vx whereas zergers/siegers are more likely to run light/medium for zerg focused builds. Sure you will die if caught, you wont be considered an ub3r-l33t tw1tch pro gam3r but for some people, myself included, the metagame of setting up and executing the perfect kill is highly rewarding.

In the end people that complain about gankers need to understand one thing - it exists and you either learn to live with it and accept gank builds have their weaknesses, or hit the uninstall button.

great info...ganking has definitely become a lost art in cyrodiil...

you're 100% correct, a lot of the ganking I see nowadays does seem to be focused around sieges...

hmmmm, i suddenly have the strong desire to log on and take one of my nightblades out for a friendly spin...

there's something about killing someone without them even firing back a single offensive skill that's very gratifying (not including mount ganks of course)...

contrary to popular opinion - it's not very easy, and doesn't happen all that often (at least not for me)...

I don't use UI indicators for enemy health numbers/percentages, so, I've "bounced" off more than a few players over time...dang costumes (it looked like they were wearing robes)...

in which case - cloak and run away, run away

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Just use Miats, (or some other unpublished addons) it still works LOL. Despite all the hype about it finally being gone.

Kuramas9tails

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just use Miats, (or some other unpublished addons) it still works LOL. Despite all the hype about it finally being gone.

I guess I will just have to wait for Add On's on PS4 then....

Kuramas9tails

unknowngamer wrote: »

In the end people that complain about gankers need to understand one thing - it exists and you either learn to live with it and accept gank builds have their weaknesses, or hit the uninstall button.

I couldn't agree with you more. I like the assassin concept in PVP.

Stinkyremy

Correct me if I am wrong, but gankning is the concept of a group of players, (who are normally very low skilled players, so they group up) ganging up on lowly unsuspecting victims. Like 20 vs 2. While I can understand having a "gank build" by slotting fast sneaky skills, like that nightblade thing invisible strike (idk what it is called never played nb) but 1 person cant exactly be a ganker, with a gank build, because gankning is about being in a group. Not a zerg size group.

Stinkyremy

Vizier wrote: »

I've no sympathy for the ganked. Be aware. Don't let your horse stamina run too low. Don't ride the most traveled paths between keeps by yourself. Make a detour off the beaten track. Use terrain to limit LOS...shrug. In Cyrodiil you are always a target...get used to it.

I got killed in cyrodiil opening a simple chest in a delve, that was when I made the consious decision to not loot or farm nodes in cyrodiil at all

Danksta

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Horse ganking is the lowest form one can fall down too. Bonus points if you do it on a lvl 22 with no stamina leveled on the horse yet. There are many people who want to fight only when they know they will win. Explains the love for the Nightblade class too (and the class being very strong outside ganking too off).

That is actually according to Sun Tzu the art of war - do not start a fight if you haven't won it already.

I always found those arguments to be quite hilarious "bwaaaah he only atk'd me cause he knew he'd win" well yeah you'd have to be stupid to attack someone you didnt think you could beat.

Well, either stupid or looking for a challenge and looking to improve. Not going to get better wrecking scrubs all day.

Royaji

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but gankning is the concept of a group of players, (who are normally very low skilled players, so they group up) ganging up on lowly unsuspecting victims. Like 20 vs 2. While I can understand having a "gank build" by slotting fast sneaky skills, like that nightblade thing invisible strike (idk what it is called never played nb) but 1 person cant exactly be a ganker, with a gank build, because gankning is about being in a group. Not a zerg size group.

You are wrong. It is ganking not ganging. Gank has nothing to do with groups. It is about solo (rarely duo) characters which are built to pump out maximum damage in the shortest time-frame possible. When a ganker attacks a target his plan is to kill them before they can react and get out.

Stinkyremy

Royaji wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but gankning is the concept of a group of players, (who are normally very low skilled players, so they group up) ganging up on lowly unsuspecting victims. Like 20 vs 2. While I can understand having a "gank build" by slotting fast sneaky skills, like that nightblade thing invisible strike (idk what it is called never played nb) but 1 person cant exactly be a ganker, with a gank build, because gankning is about being in a group. Not a zerg size group.

You are wrong. It is ganking not ganging. Gank has nothing to do with groups. It is about solo (rarely duo) characters which are built to pump out maximum damage in the shortest time-frame possible. When a ganker attacks a target his plan is to kill them before they can react and get out.

Well ganking has always been known as groups of players picking off easy targets, usually low level with a 1 vs 20 battle.
The word may be used in a different term in eso, or in any modern mmo, but this was the original word for that type of cheap play style.

Minyassa

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

I've no sympathy for the ganked. Be aware. Don't let your horse stamina run too low. Don't ride the most traveled paths between keeps by yourself. Make a detour off the beaten track. Use terrain to limit LOS...shrug. In Cyrodiil you are always a target...get used to it.

I got killed in cyrodiil opening a simple chest in a delve, that was when I made the consious decision to not loot or farm nodes in cyrodiil at all

I feel ya, but you can't just ignore all the treasure maps piling up or getting that skyshard achievement done. It's obnoxious but if you try to stay away from where the action is, most people will leave you alone. The actual pvp folks seem to be focused on the war, not on mugging. Also try off hours, that might help.

Stovahkiin

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but gankning is the concept of a group of players, (who are normally very low skilled players, so they group up) ganging up on lowly unsuspecting victims. Like 20 vs 2. While I can understand having a "gank build" by slotting fast sneaky skills, like that nightblade thing invisible strike (idk what it is called never played nb) but 1 person cant exactly be a ganker, with a gank build, because gankning is about being in a group. Not a zerg size group.

Being a ganker has nothing to do with being in a group. If you need more than one ganker to take down a single enemy, then you’re not a very effective ganker.

Hurtfan

I get ganked inside keeps that aren't being attacked lol

Being ganked on a horse....is just par for the course (this rhymes FYI)

geonsocal

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but gankning is the concept of a group of players, (who are normally very low skilled players, so they group up) ganging up on lowly unsuspecting victims. Like 20 vs 2. While I can understand having a "gank build" by slotting fast sneaky skills, like that nightblade thing invisible strike (idk what it is called never played nb) but 1 person cant exactly be a ganker, with a gank build, because gankning is about being in a group. Not a zerg size group.

I just looked it up (urban dictionary) and you are correct...what we describe as zerging is defined there as ganking...

although, here on the forums - attacking from stealth is largely considered ganking...

Lexxypwns

I’ve never killed anyone in pvp that I didn’t gank off a horse