Lets talk about Snipe...

SodanTok

ak_pvp wrote: »

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Always triggers me when I read such things as 'nerf snipe', but you kinda fixed it in the 2nd part Killing people with snipe 1v1 even as ganker, let alone in some fair duel, is already difficult and basically impossible if both players are at same skill level. So obviously snipe does not need to be nerfed, but changed to something that rewards skillfull usage yet also is not so easily unskillfully avoided (snipe is one of the easiest ability to avoid if you can see your attacker)

But this thread is mostly l2p problem by some people that spent last year getting warned 2s before snipe hit.

Not that there arent some new issues with it, which, AFAIK arent really new nor snipe related. All skills are are losing animations and sounds this patch the worse the connection to server gets (both problem of server and user). Snipe is just first skill to go (maybe related to range). Meteor too. After connection gets worse, basically every ranged ability starts disappearing and having no sound. Add more lag/bigger ping and even things like surprise attack stop making any sound and nightblades start to have 2sec of invisibility after every cloak break... And every patch makes this worse.

Datthaw

If I get successfully ganked (only time so far was during and auto run bowl smoke) I will just clap. If you can 1-2 shot me from my horse then you deserve the kill, you successfully built a glass cannon ganker and can use it.

However what normally happens. I get hit block dismount into a shield and pop a detect pot. See the slippery basted hiding like "oh hell what am I gonna do now" then I'm the one that 2 shots them. Or they pop a speed pot and sprint off into the sunset.

Datthaw

ak_pvp wrote: »

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Yeah bow line could use a rework. I always want to make a bow build but the only decent ones seem to run master bow with acid spray. Snipe is pretty useless in actual fights unless you just want to apply defile.

Azurya

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Thank you,

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Disable sneak on vamp, it has nothing to do with a vampire! (lore)

but to be honest, you mostly get those attempts to hit you in the back, that late, due to the LAGS!

I say NERF LAGS NOW!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Wrobel aso

ak_pvp

SodanTok wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Always triggers me when I read such things as 'nerf snipe', but you kinda fixed it in the 2nd part Killing people with snipe 1v1 even as ganker, let alone in some fair duel, is already difficult and basically impossible if both players are at same skill level. So obviously snipe does not need to be nerfed, but changed to something that rewards skillfull usage yet also is not so easily unskillfully avoided (snipe is one of the easiest ability to avoid if you can see your attacker)

But this thread is mostly l2p problem by some people that spent last year getting warned 2s before snipe hit.

Not that there arent some new issues with it, which, AFAIK arent really new nor snipe related. All skills are are losing animations and sounds this patch the worse the connection to server gets (both problem of server and user). Snipe is just first skill to go (maybe related to range). Meteor too. After connection gets worse, basically every ranged ability starts disappearing and having no sound. Add more lag/bigger ping and even things like surprise attack stop making any sound and nightblades start to have 2sec of invisibility after every cloak break... And every patch makes this worse.

I like nerfs into buffs. As opposed to nerfing one to make the other interesting.

Datthaw wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Yeah bow line could use a rework. I always want to make a bow build but the only decent ones seem to run master bow with acid spray. Snipe is pretty useless in actual fights unless you just want to apply defile.

True. Only seen one build that plays bow well as a non potato ganker. It'd just be much better with a spammable.

technohic

I have a liadout I throw on my Stamplar with snipe I find hilarious when someone’s on a wall or to pick off someone Zerg surfing and using range from the back to where I can’t go into melee. Snipe>POTL >poison injection > javelin. Non-brawlers can die from that as it doesn’t give them much of a chance to self purge. Groups with a purge spammer probably need to be matched against another similar group anyway.

The downside is I’m left vulnerable myself if pressured before I can get gear swapped back out of combat

leepalmer95

Its the defile on snipe thats annoying, big dmg and the biggest range in the game, the perma major defile is so horrible.

sharquez

In PVP the responsibility is on the player to build themselves in such a way that they can survive certain things at the sacrifice of damage, If you want to min max for maximum firepower you can do that, but then when you get ganked because your character wasn't built to withstand that level of firepower that's on you. That said, gankers are not usually built for extreme sustain or survivability and will suffer if properly exposed and dealt with, much like popular glass cannon builds. Snipe ganking is not an issue unless you built your character in such a way that it becomes an issue because you have no survivability or sustain.

LittlePinkDot

Flying blade is better than snipe IMO

NyassaV

Minalan wrote: »

Sounds like *someone* used to use Miats...

We already called it: Nerf calls for snipe as soon as Miats addon quit working.

The thing about Miats is that it didn't do much if you play the game with sounds. Before this update I had clear audio queue without Miats. With this update I do not have any audio queue with snipe or they are far to late

Solariken

That is actually a very reasonable suggestion OP - nice idea, I hope they implement it.

Toc de Malsvi

Hollery wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Sounds like *someone* used to use Miats...

We already called it: Nerf calls for snipe as soon as Miats addon quit working.

The thing about Miats is that it didn't do much if you play the game with sounds. Before this update I had clear audio queue without Miats. With this update I do not have any audio queue with snipe or they are far to late

I believe this actually occurred before this update. At least for xbox, and I don't believe it is purely a Snipe issue, I believe it is related to Snipe from stealth or Snipe+Cloak. I noticed in December I had a couple NB Snipe+Cloak spammers shooting me where there was no audio cue. They occurred with health desync though so I just wrote it off as a glitch, it wasn't happening every time though but more often than I would expect.

I have dueled several people and played in hundreds of BG's and I have never gotten the complaint of glitching Snipe. However I don't run a gank build so that is why I think its more of a stealth/cloak issue. Which I think is probably related to all of the issues they have had with stealth in the past.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

I think I’m going to make a gank build again to give you all something real to cry about.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I honestly only get annoyed by snipe when I am mounted. I think that a good snipe ganker coupled with even the tiniest bit of lag can “one shot” (yes it’s more than one skill) a well built player on a horse as it takes a bit longer to react. It doesn’t happen often, but when you are riding along and simply fall of your horse dead, it’s annoying.

I don’t think snipe needs changed on the tool tips, but a slight overhaul of the animation and audio queues might be appropriate.

Barbaran

Roll Dodge into a counter.
Shimmering shield, wings, BoL into a total dark, shield stack, cloak.
I slotted wings when I play my Stam DK and it's amazing.
I've made snipers kill themselves with my Templar.
I can build ult with my warden.
I can out stack a sniper on my sorc.
I don't play my NB too much but I've ganked a few snipers.
Don't be greedy with you skills, you probably need to open a slot for ranged defence

lynog85

Snipes the most broken skill on the game. Hows it still even a skill is beyond me. OP, btw. Its stealth not sthealth

davey1107

Whether or not snipe needs adjustments, it’s kinda silly to say bow ganking isn’t “real PvP.” Are we to assume that real PvP is when a silly scrum of twenty button mashers just mows down people as they run in circles? Lol.

Yes I can snipe people for 15k+. But every single class has the ability to reduce that to under 9k if they build for it.

Feanor

davey1107 wrote: »

Whether or not snipe needs adjustments, it’s kinda silly to say bow ganking isn’t “real PvP.” Are we to assume that real PvP is when a silly scrum of twenty button mashers just mows down people as they run in circles? Lol.

Yes I can snipe people for 15k+. But every single class has the ability to reduce that to under 9k if they build for it.

Well, that’s exactly the issue I have with it - hitting hard while staying at absolute safety shouldn’t be possible. Other ranged play styles at least risk getting gap closed. If you add stealth to it this simply becomes quite stupid. Still I don’t think we’ll see changes. It is what it is at this point.

AyelineESO

Just remove stealth so these players have to learn to play properly - fixed

thank me later

/topic

JobooAGS

AyelineESO wrote: »

Just remove stealth so these players have to learn to play properly - fixed

thank me later

/topic

Lol and you see the eso population and with it zos's money tank...

Yakidafi

Just put the sound back on snipe and it is fine.

Lloydmp

@DDuke - Loving your build atm, running a variation with the AS bow on front bar. Very difficult to master but I’m just having a great time learning/playing it.

@Devilhand - lol noob

Timeraider

AyelineESO wrote: »

Just remove stealth so these players have to learn to play properly - fixed

thank me later

/topic

Cant say i would be fully opposed to changing cloak to kep the "next hit will be critical" but instead of stealth giving minor evasion and major expedition or something ... even though i do have a stam nightblade i like, wouldnt mind having some more of an agile assasin than a guy just flickering in and out of sight ;D

The_Brosteen

This thread is undeniable proof that people will always call for nerfs to the most consistent things they see on their death recaps.

"Its not me, it must be the broken game. I mean its just obviously not me."

I get calling out things that overperform but come on, snipe? That's like the stereotypical pvp noob go to. If you try to snipe a competent player in a 1v1 situations, you're gonna and up running away or getting killed. It's one of those moves that find its effectiveness in xv1 scenarios. No snipe build ever could 1vx.

Snipe is like the hard counter to people looking through their inventory. Or reading maps. Or afk.

The_Brosteen

ak_pvp wrote: »

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Ok, this is actually a really interesting idea.

bardx86

Feanor wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

Whether or not snipe needs adjustments, it’s kinda silly to say bow ganking isn’t “real PvP.” Are we to assume that real PvP is when a silly scrum of twenty button mashers just mows down people as they run in circles? Lol.

Yes I can snipe people for 15k+. But every single class has the ability to reduce that to under 9k if they build for it.

Well, that’s exactly the issue I have with it - hitting hard while staying at absolute safety shouldn’t be possible. Other ranged play styles at least risk getting gap closed. If you add stealth to it this simply becomes quite stupid. Still I don’t think we’ll see changes. It is what it is at this point.

I'm going to have to agree. 12-15k is to much.

H4RDFOX

They've already nerf'ed crit damage from stealth "x" patches ago, and you still want a nerf to snipe. No bro. Leave it alone, and develop better tactics. You can dodge, pop-a-pot, shield for magicka, or shuffle for stamina then reengage the enemy, or continue to run away.

arkansas_ESO

The entire stealth system needs to be reworked IMO. Saying this as somebody who ganks, the ability to one-shot players from stealth with little or no warning beforehand is a pretty lame (and skill-less, but also one of the few ways left to enjoy PVPing solo outside of playing BGs) part of ESO, and one that I'm sure scares off plenty of new players that don't know to run impen or keep up shields and just end up perpetually stuck in a respawn loop as a result of this. I wouldn't be opposed to stealth being disabled in PVP and Cloak being reworked into a mobility/defense tool that keeps the user visible like Streak or Mist Form.

pieratsos

Snipe is one of the most horribly designed skills in the game. Its basically a potato magnet. Just rework it and make it reward skill, not sitting behind 200 people spamming heat seeking missiles on the other side of the map that heal debuff people to sh*t.

JobooAGS

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire stealth system needs to be reworked IMO. Saying this as somebody who ganks, the ability to one-shot players from stealth with little or no warning beforehand is a pretty lame (and skill-less, but also one of the few ways left to enjoy PVPing solo outside of playing BGs) part of ESO, and one that I'm sure scares off plenty of new players that don't know to run impen or keep up shields and just end up perpetually stuck in a respawn loop as a result of this. I wouldn't be opposed to stealth being disabled in PVP and Cloak being reworked into a mobility/defense tool that keeps the user visible like Streak or Mist Form.

With a huge part of the eso population that loves stealth in the game, I doubt zos will remove stealth unless they want their sales to tank