Lets talk about Snipe...

Devilhand

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Thank you,

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

White wabbit

Love my snipe build so leave it alone

Leandor

That was faster than expected.

Minalan

Sounds like *someone* used to use Miats...

We already called it: Nerf calls for snipe as soon as Miats addon quit working.

White wabbit

Just don't sit at the back of the zerg and you won't get picked off

RighteousBacon

I play on Xbox NA so I haven’t had the aid of your precious add on. I also haven’t had trouble with snipers since the ic patch. Leave the skill alone

Minalan

White wabbit wrote: »

Just don't sit at the back of the zerg and you won't get picked off

Yeah sit at the FRONT of a Zerg, that’ll help.

This is always such garbage advice coming from gankers. Like, hide in a ball group or it’s your fault you get one shot.

The issue here is lag, the sound effect and hit notification land at the same time. Only fix I can think of is adding another half second to the travel time.

Mic1007

I haven't had problems with Snipe-gank builds in forever, and I've never used Miatt's add-on. I just actually stick to the group I am in. Snipers tend to target those who fall behind or run ahead, as those guys will have no support.

Feanor

Mic1007 wrote: »

I haven't had problems with Snipe-gank builds in forever, and I've never used Miatt's add-on. I just actually stick to the group I am in. Snipers tend to target those who fall behind or run ahead, as those guys will have no support.

Solution to all problems: Zerg harder.

DDuke

Right, so couple of things...

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

The "NB who knows what he's doing" clearly doesn't, because that "combo" is garbage. The second part of that burst comes 1 second after the first snipe lands, which coincidentally gives you plenty of time to react. Also, you can't do both poison injection and cloak before the second snipe lands.

Typically the 41m "kill people who don't know how to CC break" combo doesn't even consist of Poison Injection, it's:

1. Radiant Magelight
2. Snipe (hits with Empower)
3. Snipe
4. Radiant Magelight (makes the second snipe hit with Empower)

...which is still a bad combo because it relies on your opponent being extremely slow on reaction time.


The good combo is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (with Asylum Bow), which hits instantly and leaves no time for reaction.

Luckily it doesn't instakill good players with proper CP allocation & impen gear (or alternatively a dmg shield up), though on random pugs I'm frequently critting 20k+ with Lethal Arrows alone.

Devilhand wrote: »

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Sorry, but that sounds more like "build as you want - as long as you don't build around stealth".


But yeah, some changes they could make which would benefit everyone (I believe) are:

• Fixing the desync bugs with Snipe & other cast time abilities. Something that frequently gets complaints.
• What bow builds need is a good spammable ability outside of ganking, one that doesn't get dodged almost every single time. Swapping the places of Arrow Barrage & Snipe would lead to less snipe spam in PvP & would get bow builds a good spammable that is less vulnerable to dodge roll.

White wabbit

Small issue in a big pond I don't see that many people sniping these days

Minalan wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Just don't sit at the back of the zerg and you won't get picked off

Yeah sit at the FRONT of a Zerg, that’ll help.

This is always such garbage advice coming from gankers. Like, hide in a ball group or it’s your fault you get one shot.

The issue here is lag, the sound effect and hit notification land at the same time. Only fix I can think of is adding another half second to the travel time.

Well it is your fault have more health so that I don't target you use magelight so that you don't get stunned etc etc

Pijng

Good at ganking, totally useless in other situations. What's the problem?

idk

By definition anything between two players is played vs players. OP may not like certain actions on PvP but that doesn’t make it less PvP.

Also, since most take the shortest and easiest route between keeps they become easy cannon fodder for the gankers.

Best way to avoid gankers is don’t take the obvious paths between two keeps. Granted gankers do go elsewhere some.

shinikaze

Never had problem with snipe, unless of course ganked by a couple of snipers in which case it's a matter of cuantity not the skill itself.

Just try to get your health past 20k and wear full impen that way you will be capable of reacting.

fred4

I don't understand calls for Snipe nerfs. On my light armor mag builds I am always shielded, and snipers are a nuisance at best. I could understand a call to remove Shield Breaker from the game, but not a nerf to Snipe.

The two stam builds I play are DK and NB. Neither would get killed by one hit, the former pops wings, the latter cloaks. Yes, I have occasionally been killed by Snipe, but in outnumbered situations, or having been damaged or CCd by an Imperial City boss first.

While I am the first to hate "cowardly" snipers, you have to consider that in any outnumbered situation it's the numbers and your lack of playing line-of-sight that gets you killed.

WildWilbur

Devilhand wrote: »

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP?

Actually, when you are a player and the ganker is a player than its player vs. player. That's what PvP stands for. So yes, it is trully PvP.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Minalan

White wabbit wrote: »

Small issue in a big pond I don't see that many people sniping these days

Minalan wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Just don't sit at the back of the zerg and you won't get picked off

Yeah sit at the FRONT of a Zerg, that’ll help.

This is always such garbage advice coming from gankers. Like, hide in a ball group or it’s your fault you get one shot.

The issue here is lag, the sound effect and hit notification land at the same time. Only fix I can think of is adding another half second to the travel time.

Well it is your fault have more health so that I don't target you use magelight so that you don't get stunned etc etc

The problem is the lag, not the skill. Snipe is fine. It’s not exactly a one-shot kill ability, especially if your target just... blocks.

magictucktuck

I don’t use snipe but am a nb in medium and have done my share of ganging. But I have never had an issue fighting snipe from stealth or any ganging method. I hate to say l2p but it’s deffinitly a awareness issue. Even playing other classes ganging has never been an issue for me and lots of other people too I’m sure. Maybe since I main a nb I know where and when I need to be prepared?

But if anything they are weak and you kill them in 2 seconds after they try to gank you. Now not that they have never been successful but rare enough I have never seen it as a problem but more give them props if they can.

Devilhand

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so couple of things...

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

The "NB who knows what he's doing" clearly doesn't, because that "combo" is garbage. The second part of that burst comes 1 second after the first snipe lands, which coincidentally gives you plenty of time to react. Also, you can't do both poison injection and cloak before the second snipe lands.

Typically the 41m "kill people who don't know how to CC break" combo doesn't even consist of Poison Injection, it's:

1. Radiant Magelight
2. Snipe (hits with Empower)
3. Snipe
4. Radiant Magelight (makes the second snipe hit with Empower)

...which is still a bad combo because it relies on your opponent being extremely slow on reaction time.


The good combo is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (with Asylum Bow), which hits instantly and leaves no time for reaction.

Luckily it doesn't instakill good players with proper CP allocation & impen gear (or alternatively a dmg shield up), though on random pugs I'm frequently critting 20k+ with Lethal Arrows alone.

Devilhand wrote: »

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Sorry, but that sounds more like "build as you want - as long as you don't build around stealth".


But yeah, some changes they could make which would benefit everyone (I believe) are:

• Fixing the desync bugs with Snipe & other cast time abilities. Something that frequently gets complaints.
• What bow builds need is a good spammable ability outside of ganking, one that doesn't get dodged almost every single time. Swapping the places of Arrow Barrage & Snipe would lead to less snipe spam in PvP & would get bow builds a good spammable that is less vulnerable to dodge roll.

Sorry mate, but the few times I went snipe build I did what I said and its a guarantee death... So, dont come here saying im sort of a noob.
Youre idea with the asylum bow, well.. Its not original at all. And as a mather of fact leaves the ganker to close to the enemy, meaning if you fail, most certainly the other player will kill you if its fairly decent.

Also, for all of you that say "I dont have issues", "stick closer to the zerg"... Most likely you are:

1) a ganker
2) a zerger

In both cases you opinions are biased.

Making casting abilities reveal you out of sthealth as soon as you cast it, IT WONT affect the damage output. So, all of you people complaining about is that you wont be able to snipe for high numbers from far away and get easy kills while you remain 100% time in sthealth. Want to go glasscannon and deal massive amount of damage? Do it, but dont expect to be 41m away and remain on sthealth 100% of the time because casting multiple skills wont pull you out of sthealth, not to mention the skill is desync/doesnt work properly (no warning sound and no animation).

Brutusmax1mus

All it needs is to not bug outwhen used in stealth.

Feanor

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

All it needs is to not bug outwhen used in stealth.

It’s quite funny. The ones saying Snipe is fine must have never encountered the bugged version then...

DDuke

Devilhand wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so couple of things...

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

The "NB who knows what he's doing" clearly doesn't, because that "combo" is garbage. The second part of that burst comes 1 second after the first snipe lands, which coincidentally gives you plenty of time to react. Also, you can't do both poison injection and cloak before the second snipe lands.

Typically the 41m "kill people who don't know how to CC break" combo doesn't even consist of Poison Injection, it's:

1. Radiant Magelight
2. Snipe (hits with Empower)
3. Snipe
4. Radiant Magelight (makes the second snipe hit with Empower)

...which is still a bad combo because it relies on your opponent being extremely slow on reaction time.


The good combo is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (with Asylum Bow), which hits instantly and leaves no time for reaction.

Luckily it doesn't instakill good players with proper CP allocation & impen gear (or alternatively a dmg shield up), though on random pugs I'm frequently critting 20k+ with Lethal Arrows alone.

Devilhand wrote: »

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Sorry, but that sounds more like "build as you want - as long as you don't build around stealth".


But yeah, some changes they could make which would benefit everyone (I believe) are:

• Fixing the desync bugs with Snipe & other cast time abilities. Something that frequently gets complaints.
• What bow builds need is a good spammable ability outside of ganking, one that doesn't get dodged almost every single time. Swapping the places of Arrow Barrage & Snipe would lead to less snipe spam in PvP & would get bow builds a good spammable that is less vulnerable to dodge roll.

Sorry mate, but the few times I went snipe build I did what I said and its a guarantee death... So, dont come here saying im sort of a noob.
Youre idea with the asylum bow, well.. Its not original at all. And as a mather of fact leaves the ganker to close to the enemy, meaning if you fail, most certainly the other player will kill you if its fairly decent.

1. I didn't call you a noob (not that I wasn't tempted) or claim to be original with the Asylum Bow combo (though now that you've brought that up I did make the first build video for it back in November). Less strawmans please.
2. I outlined above why your "guaranteed(sic) death" isn't really a "guaranteed death" on anyone who knows how to CC break. I've personally never died to it, nor have I killed anyone good with a snipe->snipe rotation over the (almost) 4 years I've played this game. That is the difference between Snipe->Snipe & Snipe>Acid Spray rotations: the latter can kill people even if they know how to CC break while the former doesn't.
3. Your Radiant Magelight->Snipe->Snipe->Poison Injection rotation also requires you to be within skill range of the opponent by the way (Poison Injection has 28m range, it cannot be cast from 41m+ with the snipes).

Devilhand wrote: »

Also, for all of you that say "I dont have issues", "stick closer to the zerg"... Most likely you are:

1) a ganker
2) a zerger

In both cases you opinions are biased.

Right, glad to hear that from a completely unbiased individual such as yourself.

Devilhand wrote: »

Making casting abilities reveal you out of sthealth as soon as you cast it, IT WONT affect the damage output. So, all of you people complaining about is that you wont be able to snipe for high numbers from far away and get easy kills while you remain 100% time in sthealth. Want to go glasscannon and deal massive amount of damage? Do it, but dont expect to be 41m away and remain on sthealth 100% of the time because casting multiple skills wont pull you out of sthealth, not to mention the skill is desync/doesnt work properly (no warning sound and no animation).

It really sounds like your main issue isn't with Snipe or any other ability, but with stealth.

See, here's the thing about stealth in ESO: it's either completely underwhelming when it's being countered by AoEs, magelights, det pots, piercing marks, soul traps, bugged light attacks & whatnot, or it's too strong & annoying af to deal with.

If you asked me, they should completely rework stealth: make it more enjoyable for the people who like making builds based around it and more enjoyable to fight against.


But this has little to do with Snipe (or any other ability cast from stealth).

Brrrofski

I hope on mine when playing any other class is impossible without zerging because you just get zerged down.

Sometimes fighting 1 v 10 is just not tolerable.

Devilhand

DDuke wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so couple of things...

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

The "NB who knows what he's doing" clearly doesn't, because that "combo" is garbage. The second part of that burst comes 1 second after the first snipe lands, which coincidentally gives you plenty of time to react. Also, you can't do both poison injection and cloak before the second snipe lands.

Typically the 41m "kill people who don't know how to CC break" combo doesn't even consist of Poison Injection, it's:

1. Radiant Magelight
2. Snipe (hits with Empower)
3. Snipe
4. Radiant Magelight (makes the second snipe hit with Empower)

...which is still a bad combo because it relies on your opponent being extremely slow on reaction time.


The good combo is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (with Asylum Bow), which hits instantly and leaves no time for reaction.

Luckily it doesn't instakill good players with proper CP allocation & impen gear (or alternatively a dmg shield up), though on random pugs I'm frequently critting 20k+ with Lethal Arrows alone.

Devilhand wrote: »

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Sorry, but that sounds more like "build as you want - as long as you don't build around stealth".


But yeah, some changes they could make which would benefit everyone (I believe) are:

• Fixing the desync bugs with Snipe & other cast time abilities. Something that frequently gets complaints.
• What bow builds need is a good spammable ability outside of ganking, one that doesn't get dodged almost every single time. Swapping the places of Arrow Barrage & Snipe would lead to less snipe spam in PvP & would get bow builds a good spammable that is less vulnerable to dodge roll.

Sorry mate, but the few times I went snipe build I did what I said and its a guarantee death... So, dont come here saying im sort of a noob.
Youre idea with the asylum bow, well.. Its not original at all. And as a mather of fact leaves the ganker to close to the enemy, meaning if you fail, most certainly the other player will kill you if its fairly decent.

1. I didn't call you a noob (not that I wasn't tempted) or claim to be original with the Asylum Bow combo (though now that you've brought that up I did make the first build video for it back in November). Less strawmans please.
2. I outlined above why your "guaranteed(sic) death" isn't really a "guaranteed death" on anyone who knows how to CC break. I've personally never died to it, nor have I killed anyone good with a snipe->snipe rotation over the (almost) 4 years I've played this game. That is the difference between Snipe->Snipe & Snipe>Acid Spray rotations: the latter can kill people even if they know how to CC break while the former doesn't.
3. Your Radiant Magelight->Snipe->Snipe->Poison Injection rotation also requires you to be within skill range of the opponent by the way (Poison Injection has 28m range, it cannot be cast from 41m+ with the snipes).

Devilhand wrote: »

Also, for all of you that say "I dont have issues", "stick closer to the zerg"... Most likely you are:

1) a ganker
2) a zerger

In both cases you opinions are biased.

Right, glad to hear that from a completely unbiased individual such as yourself.

Devilhand wrote: »

Making casting abilities reveal you out of sthealth as soon as you cast it, IT WONT affect the damage output. So, all of you people complaining about is that you wont be able to snipe for high numbers from far away and get easy kills while you remain 100% time in sthealth. Want to go glasscannon and deal massive amount of damage? Do it, but dont expect to be 41m away and remain on sthealth 100% of the time because casting multiple skills wont pull you out of sthealth, not to mention the skill is desync/doesnt work properly (no warning sound and no animation).

It really sounds like your main issue isn't with Snipe or any other ability, but with stealth.

See, here's the thing about stealth in ESO: it's either completely underwhelming when it's being countered by AoEs, magelights, det pots, piercing marks, soul traps, bugged light attacks & whatnot, or it's too strong & annoying af to deal with.

If you asked me, they should completely rework stealth: make it more enjoyable for the people who like making builds based around it and more enjoyable to fight against.


But this has little to do with Snipe (or any other ability cast from stealth).

God... You are really a smart ass dont you?

Thats not the rotation I said, so quit inventing.
Second, if youre not succesfull with it in 4 years sniping, then you must be a really bad one. Your problem not mine.
Third, my issue is the fact sthealth remains on a player until the channeled skill hits the target, with out giving any awarness to the other player. Inmediate dmg/heal casting skills reveal you instantly, casting over time abilities should work the same way.

Fourth, if you are capable enough you CAN kill people BEFORE they can CC break. And, the fact most the time Snipe desync, etc.. plays in the ganlers favour.

Fifth, want a cookie for streaming about Asylum bow? LOL. Who cares. If you know how to read you can notice about that combo.

Sixth, go back to snipe people... because is really working for you. You sniping for 4k probably behind 20 other people, such a brave player, doing it wrong.

And for the record, just give it a couple more weeks until people get sick of it.

DDuke

Devilhand wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Right, so couple of things...

Devilhand wrote: »

With the recently new added DLC 2 weeks ago, the amount of snipers and gankers out there in cyrodill had an exponential growth. From a few before the patch, to almost seeing 2-3 on every battle you jump in (not zerging)...

So, I do understand going full glasscanon and "ganking" people is allowed in the game mechanics. But is it trully PvP? No... It's your call if you want to build all damage and hit really hard, but it should allow the other player to respond properly.

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

The "NB who knows what he's doing" clearly doesn't, because that "combo" is garbage. The second part of that burst comes 1 second after the first snipe lands, which coincidentally gives you plenty of time to react. Also, you can't do both poison injection and cloak before the second snipe lands.

Typically the 41m "kill people who don't know how to CC break" combo doesn't even consist of Poison Injection, it's:

1. Radiant Magelight
2. Snipe (hits with Empower)
3. Snipe
4. Radiant Magelight (makes the second snipe hit with Empower)

...which is still a bad combo because it relies on your opponent being extremely slow on reaction time.


The good combo is Lethal Arrow->Acid Spray (with Asylum Bow), which hits instantly and leaves no time for reaction.

Luckily it doesn't instakill good players with proper CP allocation & impen gear (or alternatively a dmg shield up), though on random pugs I'm frequently critting 20k+ with Lethal Arrows alone.

Devilhand wrote: »

Keep in mind the "warnings" of Snipe skill (sound and seeing the flying arrow) will not be present until after you are hit by the first snipe (tested, you will only hear the casting sound if the target close enough, the aproaching and hit sound will not display). (ZOS fix it please...)
And please increase the size of the arrow or animation (impossible to see...)

I suggest the following change, since Snipe is considered a channeling attack, when casting a channeling attack you will get out of sthealth.
This will work also with other ganking combos from sthealth out there like:

1) Empowered Snipe's...
2) Empowered Dizzing swing...
3) Empowered Frag cast into Overload

This change will make the caster (ganker) which already has a big advantage (surprise element), get inmediatly off sthealth BEFORE the skill hits you, giving time to the player to:
1) see the enemie before he gets hit by a glasscannon build
2) defend him self from high burst damage from sthealth
3) animations, warnings, etc.. should work smoother, allowing a response from the other player. (For example: Snipe sounds SHOULD display properly...)

This is a simple solution that will benefit most of the PvP community with out altering the game principle " build as you want, do what you want".

Sorry, but that sounds more like "build as you want - as long as you don't build around stealth".


But yeah, some changes they could make which would benefit everyone (I believe) are:

• Fixing the desync bugs with Snipe & other cast time abilities. Something that frequently gets complaints.
• What bow builds need is a good spammable ability outside of ganking, one that doesn't get dodged almost every single time. Swapping the places of Arrow Barrage & Snipe would lead to less snipe spam in PvP & would get bow builds a good spammable that is less vulnerable to dodge roll.

Sorry mate, but the few times I went snipe build I did what I said and its a guarantee death... So, dont come here saying im sort of a noob.
Youre idea with the asylum bow, well.. Its not original at all. And as a mather of fact leaves the ganker to close to the enemy, meaning if you fail, most certainly the other player will kill you if its fairly decent.

1. I didn't call you a noob (not that I wasn't tempted) or claim to be original with the Asylum Bow combo (though now that you've brought that up I did make the first build video for it back in November). Less strawmans please.
2. I outlined above why your "guaranteed(sic) death" isn't really a "guaranteed death" on anyone who knows how to CC break. I've personally never died to it, nor have I killed anyone good with a snipe->snipe rotation over the (almost) 4 years I've played this game. That is the difference between Snipe->Snipe & Snipe>Acid Spray rotations: the latter can kill people even if they know how to CC break while the former doesn't.
3. Your Radiant Magelight->Snipe->Snipe->Poison Injection rotation also requires you to be within skill range of the opponent by the way (Poison Injection has 28m range, it cannot be cast from 41m+ with the snipes).

Devilhand wrote: »

Also, for all of you that say "I dont have issues", "stick closer to the zerg"... Most likely you are:

1) a ganker
2) a zerger

In both cases you opinions are biased.

Right, glad to hear that from a completely unbiased individual such as yourself.

Devilhand wrote: »

Making casting abilities reveal you out of sthealth as soon as you cast it, IT WONT affect the damage output. So, all of you people complaining about is that you wont be able to snipe for high numbers from far away and get easy kills while you remain 100% time in sthealth. Want to go glasscannon and deal massive amount of damage? Do it, but dont expect to be 41m away and remain on sthealth 100% of the time because casting multiple skills wont pull you out of sthealth, not to mention the skill is desync/doesnt work properly (no warning sound and no animation).

It really sounds like your main issue isn't with Snipe or any other ability, but with stealth.

See, here's the thing about stealth in ESO: it's either completely underwhelming when it's being countered by AoEs, magelights, det pots, piercing marks, soul traps, bugged light attacks & whatnot, or it's too strong & annoying af to deal with.

If you asked me, they should completely rework stealth: make it more enjoyable for the people who like making builds based around it and more enjoyable to fight against.


But this has little to do with Snipe (or any other ability cast from stealth).

God... You are really a smart ass dont you?

Probably quilty of that, yeah.

Devilhand wrote: »

Thats not the rotation I said, so quit inventing.

Sorry, that's just how I interpreted this:

Devilhand wrote:

Currently its possible to hit targets with +13k snipes from sthealth, from 41m away, by the time the first snipe hits the target and pulls the ganker out of sthealth, he already casted a second snipe, a poison inyect, empowered with magelight and cloak fro certain crit, in other words there is no coming back if the NB know what he is doing.

Maybe you can elaborate and help me understand it better.

Devilhand wrote: »

Second, if youre not succesfull with it in 4 years sniping, then you must be a really bad one. Your problem not mine.

No, not with that particular combo. I've played & made 1vX videos with the following burst combos over the past 4 years:

Snipe->Heavy Attack+Poison Injection
Back when Snipe had a 3s cast time, longer travel time and did a lot more damage. Nightblades also had a skill called "Haste" (later replaced by Grim Focus) which would make charging Heavy Attacks much faster. This meant you could land the Snipe, Heavy Attack and Poison Injection at the same millisecond, dealing enormous burst. This was also before Battle Spirit and before sneak attack modifier was nerfed (and ultimately removed entirely in Morrowind patch). 2014-2015 - I've some old 1vX videos featuring this on my channel.

Snipe->Ambush+Surprise Attack/Incap
Sort of replaced the previous rotation as they reduced Snipe cast/travel time and made it impossible to land Heavy Attack+PI at the same time. Just as lethal, though the emphasis shifted from bow to dual wield/2H & the dominance of melee builds over stamina ranged builds started to take place.
This combo still works somewhat btw, though people prefer not slotting Snipe & just use Heavy Attack->Ambush+Incap instead for ganking.

...and lastly the recent(ish) Snipe->Arrow Spray (with Asylum Bow), highest instant burst you can get with a bow build. It has made pure bow builds somewhat playable again.


Anything not listed simply doesn't work adequately - I've had time to test things.

Devilhand wrote: »

Third, I have no issue with sthealth. My issue is the fact sthealth remains on a player until the skill hits the target, with out giving no awarness to the other player.

That is the entire point of stealth: robbing the other player of some (if not all) awareness of your attacks - adding an element of surprise to the gameplay.

If you can see someone casting that skill, there is no element of surprise when the projectile starts traveling towards you - just laughter as you easily dodge roll it.

Devilhand wrote: »

Fourth, if you are capable enough you CAN kill people BEFORE they can CC break. And, the fact most the time Snipe desync, etc.. plays in the ganlers favour.

Yes, that is exactly why you don't want to use Snipe->Snipe rotations as those give your target too much time to react to it (1s after first impact). As a bow user you need to kill a target before they can CC break, as all your skills are so easily countered with dodge roll/reflect which makes recuperating from bow burst a walk in the park.

Devilhand wrote: »

Fifth, want a cookie for streaming about Asylum bow? LOL. Who cares. If you know how to read you can notice about that combo.

Sixth, go back to snipe people... because is really working for you. You sniping for 4k probably behind 20 other people, such a brave player, doing it wrong.

And for the record, just give it a couple more weeks until people get sick of it.

Actually, one big reason I made the Asylum build public is that I'm just as sick as anyone of those weak Xv1 bow builds sniping from behind a zerg (and sick of every other "Xv1 build" for that matter).

The thing with Asylum bow builds is that while they're capable of getting more kills, they're also putting you at more risk as you need to be within Acid Spray/Bombard range. This means no 41m+ snipe spamming for 4k damage behind 20 other people, as you put it.

Reward? You can count on those snipes being double digit in terms of damage and being much harder to evade (as Acid Spray/Bombard actually land before Snipe and not only buff the Snipe, but also stun the target if hit from stealth).

Here's a damage showcase from last patch (without Hawk Eye stacks): https://youtu.be/R63jwNgGvk4


Up to 30k+ Snipes are possible with this build, depending on target. Usual damage on Cyrodiil pugs is 20k~ each Lethal Arrow (another 5-6k from Acid Spray).
Easily survivable with 5-7 impen, proper CP allocation (reduces the Snipe damage to around 17k max) & 23k+ health though.

fred4

DDuke wrote: »

If you asked me, they should completely rework stealth: make it more enjoyable for the people who like making builds based around it and more enjoyable to fight against.

How would you square that circle?

killimandrosb16_ESO

@Devilhand you know @DDuke is probably one of the best main hand bow users in the game right now, so I would strongly suggest you listen keenly to his words. He writes and makes video guides to bow users, and is one of the best and most solid sources of bowplay you can refer to. Take some time to actually study his latest bow pvp video, and maybe at the same time pass by the character and skill section to participate or read into the bow build(s) and optimal gear for those builds discussed. You would probably see things otherwise and you would also probably learn a bit about how to avoid being killed by double-snipe combo.

Personally I use double snipe combo IF I am chasing a zerg/circling around enemy sieges (where the player sieging is being stuck 0.20 sec on siege before he/she can dodgeroll) and find a target below or just at 20k health. I would never use double snipe combo on DK's, mages with shields and in some cases wardens.

Most bow users dont have asylum bow, but certain combos involving snipe as an opener and moving fast in can be successful, but not as much as the one including that particular bow

DDuke

fred4 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you asked me, they should completely rework stealth: make it more enjoyable for the people who like making builds based around it and more enjoyable to fight against.

How would you square that circle?

I'm no game developer, but putting aside the universal complaints about stealth that can't be fixed (i.e. the whole notion of "stealth is unfair/cowardly/toxic" etc etc - trust me I've heard it all), the things which make it particularly problematic in ESO are:

• No Cooldowns & Infinite Resources
• 100% Stealth rather than "Predator" style stealth/camouflage

...and on the other side of the spectrum:

• Hard counters that require no player skill (i.e. Piercing Mark is just "target NB & hit a button every 30s") and can't really be effectively played around
• Lack of interactive skills/combos based on stealth
• Bugs (this update did fix a lot of them, but they're still present)

So in my opinion there's a lot of ways stealth could be made more enjoyable to play with/against:

1. Making it "Predator" style stealth, i.e. having targets leave visual cues so trying to hit them with AoE or finding stealthers wouldn't be just guesswork. In return, would be nice if more skills had special stealth interactions (like Surprise Attack stun) or could be used without stealth breaking instantly (like Cloak->Ambush currently).
2. Tying stealth to an ultimate instead so it has a "cooldown", but making it stronger in return (see above). Perhaps no longer breaks from damage.
3. Stacking cost modifier a la dodge roll/streak, but less hard counters.

Or any combination of the above...


I think stealth is done a lot better in other MMOs like WoW or Blade & Soul where you get a lot more stealth interaction as rogue/assassin, while stealth itself isn't neither as abusive nor easily countered as it is in ESO.

But that's just my take on it.

VaranisArano

Is this a nerf snipe thread now that people can't hide behind Miats?

Yep, this is a nerf snipe! thread now that people can't hide behind Miats.

As someone who doesn't play a sniper, never used Miats and somehow dealt with snipers without it, welcome to Cyrodiil. Sorry, I can't give an ounce of sympathy for Miats users suddenly complaining about having to deal with snipers.

If you are riding alone, expect a gank and be prepared to react accordingly. Once you've countered the initial burst, its a regular 1v1.

ak_pvp

I never used miats. Snipe should 100% be nerfed. It is a skilless zergling playstyle for those who can't kill people without the help of others. They never come alone.

IMO:

Snipe should have its cast time removed and its travel time shortened. It should be a narrow targetted ability, like sub assault. It should always crit. Tadaa. You now have an effective spammble on bow, but now bads with no targetting skills no longer get to spam it from safety unless you have some skill.

Thunderknuckles

I main a NB (for now) and it just makes me chuckle when people cry out for nerfs against'em. I get smashed and do my share of smashing, but when you have classes like Templar that can heal the crap out of themselves whilst having superb defenses and DPS all going at the same time I just sit back and shake my head that people zero in on NB's so often (no pun intended).

And for the record, I'm not calling for Templars to be nerfed at all. I fully intend to get one into PvP in the near future.