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Class balance is a problem in 2018

casparian
casparian
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As always with a new patch, players have been doing a lot of testing and theorycrafting to see how the various classes balance against one another in PVE and PVP.

It's not looking good.

Class balance has definitely been worse in the past, and this patch took some steps toward making things better. But the game still greatly incentivizes only a few classes for DPS in endgame raids: basically, ranged magsorc and magblade, and melee stamina builds. Ranged magplars and magDKs are just doing magblades' job worse, a dubious honor they can achieve only by giving up their classes' signature skills (Flame Lash and Puncturing Sweep). And while Mechanical Acuity and Zaan have brought new life to melee magicka builds, it isn't enough -- as huge a buff as those sets are to melee magicka builds, they're still well behind stamina melee builds in terms of DPS, meaning there's still no reason to bring melee magicka builds to a min-maxed endgame raid with limited melee slots .

Maybe that's on purpose. Maybe, for some reason, ZOS thinks magicka players should not play in melee range in endgame content, and Flame Lash and Puncturing Sweep are only intended for questing. But I don't think this is what ZOS intends. Magicka melee DPS has been a part of endgame raiding for most of this game's history, and ZOS has taken steps to fix Puncturing Sweep's scaling issues (though they have ignored our feedback about Radiant Destruction incorrectly scaling additively with other damage bonuses since the Morrowind patch). Zaan also seems to be an attempt to at least partially fix melee magicka DPS' issues.

Things are much better in PVP, but there are still issues. Gina and the devs have gone radio silent on a major templar bug. ZOS took all the feedback the playerbase gave about stamina wardens (Shimmering Shield is too cheap and too strong; a class that can access Reverse Slice and Reverb Bash should not have access to such massive kiting, healing, and defensive potential; and so on) and responded by nerfing magicka wardens for some reason. Befoul is an offensive CP star that players can invest in without having to give up points in any other offensive CP star. Magplars have heIIa problems. And so on.

I'm optimistic that the big rebalancing that seems to be planned for the summer (a promised class balance patch as well as the introduction of whatever the Psijic skill line turns out to be) will fix at least some of these issues. But that's a long time from now. Would it be too difficult to experiment with raising the damage of melee magicka DPS' main tools, even if just as a stopgap until the next big rebalance? Maybe Puncturing Sweep could get a damage buff in an incremental patch and the spell damage bonus of Molten Whip could be increased (to help magDKs not be so reliant on the Power Lash proc, since that is now prevented from proccing very often in raids). (These would also be non-threatening changes for PVP: I don't think anyone seriously believes magplars are on the verge of doing too much damage now, and Power Lash is still the preferred morph in PVP.) For those of us who don't play stamina DPS, magblades, or magsorcs, saying "just wait until the next patch" is hardly satisfying, especially since that's what we've been saying to ourselves for several patches now. We would like to be welcomed in raids in the meantime, please.
7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    Sad part is, it used to not be this way with MagPlars and MagDK’s. But for whatever the reason, ZOS choose to strp those 2 classes bare. And for literally no reason too. Just up and decided that they were going to destroy those classes out of the blue. Now look at them. Damn shame, to be honest.
  • KingYogi415
    KingYogi415
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    There is only a race problem.

    Class balance is best it has ever been!
  • KingYogi415
    KingYogi415
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    You must be new here.
  • red_emu
    red_emu
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    Ah now you've said it they will buff Stam Warden and Nerf Mag Warden to the ground :neutral:

    Mag warden = New MagPlar
    PC - EU:
    Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
    Falathren - AD StamSorc
    Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
    Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
    Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
    Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
    Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    well hopefully we'll hold off on a Necromancer class or anything of the like until it's sorted out
  • red_emu
    red_emu
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    Iccotak wrote: »
    well hopefully we'll hold off on a Necromancer class or anything of the like until it's sorted out

    Looking at what's been said about the Warden before Morrowind, eveyone will scream Nerf before Necromancer is ever released. And once released, ZOS will nerf Templar because reasons.
    PC - EU:
    Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
    Falathren - AD StamSorc
    Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
    Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
    Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
    Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
    Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    red_emu wrote: »
    Iccotak wrote: »
    well hopefully we'll hold off on a Necromancer class or anything of the like until it's sorted out

    Looking at what's been said about the Warden before Morrowind, eveyone will scream Nerf before Necromancer is ever released. And once released, ZOS will nerf Templar because reasons.

    257nrv.jpg
  • Rohaus
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    I agree that the game feels pretty balanced to me!
    YouTube channel Rohaus Lives!
    Daggerfall Covenant
    VR16 DragonKnight
  • Datthaw
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    Go play candy crush you scrub.


    Jk, <3 you casp.
  • red_emu
    red_emu
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    The way opinion on class balance works in PvP and also on the forums:

    fish-cartoon-580.jpg
    PC - EU:
    Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
    Falathren - AD StamSorc
    Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
    Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
    Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
    Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
    Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    ranged magdk? That's some perverse ***.
    Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.
  • Starlight_Knight
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    Things are much better in PVP, but there are still issues. Gina and the devs have gone radio silent on a major templar bug. ZOS took all the feedback the playerbase gave about stamina wardens (Shimmering Shield is too cheap and too strong; a class that can access Reverse Slice and Reverb Bash should not have access to such massive kiting, healing, and defensive potential; and so on) and responded by nerfing magicka wardens for some reason. Befoul is an offensive CP star that players can invest in without having to give up points in any other offensive CP star. Magplars have heIIa problems. And so on. "


    I love this - i agree wholeheartedly, Mag wardens did not need to suffer any nerf at all, i was gobsmacked when they did.
    I only play pvp on my mag warden as a main and it is in serious need of a buff, when i play my stam warden or mag sorc its laughable how easy and bursty they are to play.
    i think they should undo the change to un-dogable cliff-racer ( for mag ) and work on giving the mag warden a class execute.
  • casparian
    casparian
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    Datthaw wrote: »
    Go play candy crush you scrub.


    Jk, <3 you casp.

    1v1 me in Lego Racers you scrub <3
    7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • rustic_potato
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    Stam plays melee magika plays ranged. I think this is how ZOS wants the classes to function. A rangedplar and ranged DKs are weaker but still viable.

    If Magplar and mDK do the same damage in melee as stam, stam DPS will lose their spot. The current iteration is the perfect situation as far as class balance goes.

    There are always going to be weaker classes and stronger classes.
    I play how I want to.


  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    If you choose to focus on how efficiently every class can complete content and exclude every class that performs certain roles less efficiently than others, you will always complain about class balance in one form or another.

    Currently, all classes can complete all content. Judgment and exclusion based on efficiency is something players create and are responsible for fixing.

    Or in other words, when players insist on labeling classes as winners and losers based on efficiency in content, is it really any surprise that ZOS changes up the winners and losers with every patch?
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