Please don't make me bail out dungeon PUGs

fred4

After two and a half years, 980 CP, and now on my 5th active (non-mule) character, I have established my niche. It's PvP. I hate dungeons, but I have to do them to get Undaunted Mettle. Don't argue. I do. Everyone does, really. It's too good a buff to pass up, if you at all care about being competitive.

Tonight I queued 3 times with the Dungeon Finder, and each time I see the dreaded blue portal when I enter the dungeon, the one that means I have been drafted in to help a group who has the dungeon half done. I don't mind helping a low CP group, but this is too much. If I am going to spend, likely, considerable time with them, it has to at least move my character progression forward. I want credit for the pledge and dungeon quest. It's the only thing I'm there for. Wish ZOS would accomodate that.

drkfrontiers

"Undaunted! Undaunted!" Say it with me friend, "We are the Undaunted.."

fred4

That's what I start chanting in the chat, to my friends .

thedude33

woe is me. Life is sooo tough.

kargen27

fred4 wrote: »

After two and a half years, 980 CP, and now on my 5th active (non-mule) character, I have established my niche. It's PvP. I hate dungeons, but I have to do them to get Undaunted Mettle. Don't argue. I do. Everyone does, really. It's too good a buff to pass up, if you at all care about being competitive.

Tonight I queued 3 times with the Dungeon Finder, and each time I see the dreaded blue portal when I enter the dungeon, the one that means I have been drafted in to help a group who has the dungeon half done. I don't mind helping a low CP group, but this is too much. If I am going to spend, likely, considerable time with them, it has to at least move my character progression forward. I want credit for the pledge and dungeon quest. It's the only thing I'm there for. Wish ZOS would accomodate that.

I understand why they don't want to give credit for the pledge if you are there only for the last boss. The final boss isn't always the toughest boss and we all know there are players in the game that would kick someone and invite a friend for the last boss.

There should be an option in the dungeon queue that allows you to select whether or not you want to join a group in progress.

fred4

thedude33 wrote: »

woe is me. Life is sooo tough.

This isn't life. It's a game. By and large ESO allows you to play only those parts of it that you find fun. This goes towards that.

Hetaira

I love it when I end up in a dungeon with motifs when they are on the last boss. Free motif for me if I can manage a carry.

fred4

Hetaira wrote: »

I love it when I end up in a dungeon with motifs when they are on the last boss. Free motif for me if I can manage a carry.

This is interesting, because:

kargen27 wrote: »

There should be an option in the dungeon queue that allows you to select whether or not you want to join a group in progress.

I thought everyone would take the option for a fresh group, and that might be a reason why ZOS don't allow the choice. Seems like it might be viable though.

Osteos

I agree if you join through group finder it should progress your pledge even if you only kill the final boss.

f047ys3v3n

Maybe there should be some extra reward for bailing a garbage group out on the last boss on vet. Of course, folks would try to trick the system to get the reward with pre-made groups.

As is, I typically just bail when I see that is the situation and deal with the que timer. Typically the folks left in a broken group are 1) the worst players that were in that already not capable of completing group, and 2) Not capable of doing their roll sufficiently to be of aid or to complete a dungeon even with good players added.

Probably the best thing is to prevent groups that loose people due to a person dropping group (as opposed to DC'ing) from refilling that spot using the que. The current system just creates poisonous groups that push anybody with half a brain into the que timeout. That is not at all fair when some have spent a long time in que only to be handed a soiled worthless group that 4 other folks have already bailed on.

fred4

It's not merely the pledge I'm looking for, to be honest. If I just do the pledge, non-DLC on vet HM, I get 20 points towards Undaunted, I think. I find I often get many more points the first time I do a dungeon though, up to something like 45 extra points. I don't know why that is, whether it's achievements or the dungeon quest, but I want those points .

Kanar

Yes the key is that you have to join through group finder. This would make it difficult (but not impossible) to kick someone and invite a friend.

Juju_beans

fred4 wrote: »

Hetaira wrote: »

I love it when I end up in a dungeon with motifs when they are on the last boss. Free motif for me if I can manage a carry.

This is interesting, because:

kargen27 wrote: »

There should be an option in the dungeon queue that allows you to select whether or not you want to join a group in progress.

I thought everyone would take the option for a fresh group, and that might be a reason why ZOS don't allow the choice. Seems like it might be viable though.

And if groups couldn't get a replacement then maybe they won't be so quick to kick people.

fred4

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

As is, I typically just bail when I see that is the situation and deal with the que timer. Typically the folks left in a broken group are 1) the worst players that were in that already not capable of completing group, and 2) Not capable of doing their roll sufficiently to be of aid or to complete a dungeon even with good players added.

Add to that:

3) Still at it 15 minutes later, and you get drafted into the same group again.

4) CP200 players who make snarky comments about how could their previous group member not have enough DPS to deal with the second boss in vCOA2.

disintegr8

I'll tell you what every 'elitist' tells new players - if you don't like Pugs, find a guild or some friends to run dungeons with.

I don't know that this is any different from the PVE players who complain about having to do PVP to get vigor and caltrops.

I'd suggest that you only need to run normal dungeons, and do the daily undaunted quest as well as the undaunted dungeons for extra leveling. Me and a friend level up all of our characters undaunted this way - I now have 11 characters at level 9 in the skill line (all are at least at Alliance level 5 as well).

kargen27

fred4 wrote: »

Hetaira wrote: »

I love it when I end up in a dungeon with motifs when they are on the last boss. Free motif for me if I can manage a carry.

This is interesting, because:

kargen27 wrote: »

There should be an option in the dungeon queue that allows you to select whether or not you want to join a group in progress.

I thought everyone would take the option for a fresh group, and that might be a reason why ZOS don't allow the choice. Seems like it might be viable though.

When this idea was first thrown out there I thought most would want a full run also. Turns out a lot of people only want the bonus for the random daily and they actually like getting in on a dungeon already towards the end.

idk

It is significantly faster to get a group of guild mates together and run a bunch of dungeons. A reasonably skilled group can get plenty of the achievements that grants Undaunted points. In addition to the vet clear of the dungeon, speed run, no death and HM challenges are more likely to be accomplished making it a faster trek to Undaunted 9.

fred4

disintegr8 wrote: »

I don't know that this is any different from the PVE players who complain about having to do PVP to get vigor and caltrops.

It is not.

I'd suggest that you only need to run normal dungeons, and do the daily undaunted quest as well as the undaunted dungeons for extra leveling. Me and a friend level up all of our characters undaunted this way - I now have 11 characters at level 9 in the skill line (all are at least at Alliance level 5 as well).

Friends and guilds aren't so readily available, especially now there's a new DLC everyone is doing. Normal is slow. I find Undaunted levels about 5 times faster when you do vet HM. I limit myself to the easier non-DLC dungeons. When I do those, and do the dungeon quests, I seem to get a ton of points. When I do the dungeon quests on normal, I seem to get NO extra points and only get 10 points for handing in the pledge. I don't know exactly how this works, but it seems like I'm wasting a huge potential points haul by doing those quests on normal.

spencer2361

It sure is nice if you are just doing the random daily, one fight and your done

Recremen

I can definitely see the desire to get something in the group finder that lets you opt in/opt out of joining a group in progress. But with that said, you should try, in the meantime, to do it only with friends or stick to the daily delve quests. Depending on whether or not it's really that much of a dealbreaker for you, of course.

idk

fred4 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I don't know that this is any different from the PVE players who complain about having to do PVP to get vigor and caltrops.

It is not.

I'd suggest that you only need to run normal dungeons, and do the daily undaunted quest as well as the undaunted dungeons for extra leveling. Me and a friend level up all of our characters undaunted this way - I now have 11 characters at level 9 in the skill line (all are at least at Alliance level 5 as well).

Friends and guilds aren't so readily available, especially now there's a new DLC everyone is doing. Normal is slow. I find Undaunted levels about 5 times faster when you do vet HM. I limit myself to the easier non-DLC dungeons. When I do those, and do the dungeon quests, I seem to get a ton of points. When I do the dungeon quests on normal, I seem to get NO extra points and only get 10 points for handing in the pledge. I don't know exactly how this works, but it seems like I'm wasting a huge potential points haul by doing those quests on normal.

Sounds like you need to find a better guild. I generally can find an Undaunted grind group to work with when I have leveled up a new character. Much faster than what you are speaking of, read my post a couple above this as to why.

Otherwise just form your own group in Zone. Ranting about it in here is not going to make it go faster.

Apache_Kid

kargen27 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

After two and a half years, 980 CP, and now on my 5th active (non-mule) character, I have established my niche. It's PvP. I hate dungeons, but I have to do them to get Undaunted Mettle. Don't argue. I do. Everyone does, really. It's too good a buff to pass up, if you at all care about being competitive.

Tonight I queued 3 times with the Dungeon Finder, and each time I see the dreaded blue portal when I enter the dungeon, the one that means I have been drafted in to help a group who has the dungeon half done. I don't mind helping a low CP group, but this is too much. If I am going to spend, likely, considerable time with them, it has to at least move my character progression forward. I want credit for the pledge and dungeon quest. It's the only thing I'm there for. Wish ZOS would accomodate that.

I understand why they don't want to give credit for the pledge if you are there only for the last boss. The final boss isn't always the toughest boss and we all know there are players in the game that would kick someone and invite a friend for the last boss.

There should be an option in the dungeon queue that allows you to select whether or not you want to join a group in progress.

Or they could make it where you get credit for the bosses killed for the pledge quest ONLY if you join the group via the activity finder and not if someone manually invited you.

WakeYourGhost

Make three friends. Do Pledges together. Never PUG again.
...Maybe make more than Three friends, in case some of your friends are busy.
In fact, it's a good idea to have a large group of friends and/or allies to draw from.

...I wonder if there is any service in game to help with that?
To help with finding non PUGs to go in to a Dungeon with..

Well, I guess you're stuck.

fred4

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Make three friends. Do Pledges together. Never PUG again.
...Maybe make more than Three friends, in case some of your friends are busy.
In fact, it's a good idea to have a large group of friends and/or allies to draw from.

...I wonder if there is any service in game to help with that?
To help with finding non PUGs to go in to a Dungeon with..

Well, I guess you're stuck.

Congratuations. Your post is so obtuse, I have no idea what side of the argument you're on.

Demycilian

Every time i turn around i see a pvper crying. tremorscaleblobeyezergpuglagmiatspurplealliance

jssriot

Even with guilds you will struggle to find good people to group with. Even people in your guilds can be ***, or they're incompetent, or they're not skilled enough yet for that content or don't understand what they need to do to progress to that level, or they're busy, etc. etc.

I agree there should be some incentive for players who join a group in progress and help them complete the dungeon. The way it is now, it treats players like we have infinite time to waste doing these damn dungeons. At least give us a bleeping Undaunted key for helping other players out.

Grouping in this game has never been great but it's definitely a lot worse now. This is why I only have two toons with level 9 Undaunted and the rest I just do the delve quest with when i'm not insanely bored with doing them. I have several monster helms and shoulders to play with until the ones I need still either show up in the Golden or I manage to find a competent group of not-*** to run that dungeon. I do feel sorry for lower cp players struggling with this. Wish I knew a way to make it easier for people but I don'' t.

fred4

jssriot wrote: »

Even with guilds you will struggle to find good people to group with. Even people in your guilds can be ***, or they're incompetent, or they're not skilled enough yet for that content or don't understand what they need to do to progress to that level, or they're busy, etc. etc.

This mirrors my experience a lot more than what idk says.

WakeYourGhost

fred4 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Make three friends. Do Pledges together. Never PUG again.
...Maybe make more than Three friends, in case some of your friends are busy.
In fact, it's a good idea to have a large group of friends and/or allies to draw from.

...I wonder if there is any service in game to help with that?
To help with finding non PUGs to go in to a Dungeon with..

Well, I guess you're stuck.

Congratuations. Your post is so obtuse, I have no idea what side of the argument you're on.

I will simplify for you.

Stop complaining, get together a proper group, and do the dungeon from the like that.
Obvious solutions to irrelevant problems are available if you use your imagination.

If you jump in at the last stage of a Dungeon, you shouldn't get full rewards. That is always a risk of doing a PUG, and why it's better to actually develop just enough social skills to get a full group together to take a Dungeon on from the start.

fred4

Smug.

kargen27

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Make three friends. Do Pledges together. Never PUG again.
...Maybe make more than Three friends, in case some of your friends are busy.
In fact, it's a good idea to have a large group of friends and/or allies to draw from.

...I wonder if there is any service in game to help with that?
To help with finding non PUGs to go in to a Dungeon with..

Well, I guess you're stuck.

Congratuations. Your post is so obtuse, I have no idea what side of the argument you're on.

I will simplify for you.

Stop complaining, get together a proper group, and do the dungeon from the like that.
Obvious solutions to irrelevant problems are available if you use your imagination.

If you jump in at the last stage of a Dungeon, you shouldn't get full rewards. That is always a risk of doing a PUG, and why it's better to actually develop just enough social skills to get a full group together to take a Dungeon on from the start.

Or we could ask for something as simple as a choice to join in progress dungeons or not. Some of our best guild members were found doing random dungeons with pick up groups. Group finder is a part of the game and if we have an idea that might make it better we should share that idea here. Same if we have a complaint.

Saying don't join a random group isn't a solution nor is it any kind of help.

VilniusNastavnik

Can honestly say 7/10 when ever I use the group finder and see a portal it's a bunch of PvP players trying to grind out PvE content with their PvP builds that do less damage than the PvE healer. Last thing I want to do when I am burning my enlightenment in the daily random normal is drag sweaties through.. but I will do it if I have to.

The remaining 3/10 times is low CP groups of new players that legit do not know mechanics and are trying to do their first clear. I got no problem helping low CP players. They want to learn, and will generally listen.

Quit being an elitist and just help people when they need it. You might not like it, but suck it up princess.