Give ZOS some love, and some money!

Lunaugh

First and foremost, Thankyou ZOS! I love to play ESO.

I've seen alot of hate directed toward the folks who keep the game running, ZOS.
I've written the following paragraphs to hopefully bring some perspective to those who feel that ZOS shouldn't be hungry for money.

On pay-to-win: I feel that one can view certain aspects of the game as Pay to Win, but I also feel that it is a very fine line. The imperial racial passives are unique and highly advantageous for a stamina-weapon=fighter build. A lowest level of pay player (the initial cost of their ESO account) can play for years and never have access to the content. Pay-to-win. The Warden Class is another example (and I argue the only other example) of pay-to-win.
Crown Scrolls and Crown motifs do not = pay-to-win. Crown Scrolls: Scrolls reduce the amount of grinding, necessarily the amount of time necessary to obtain EXP. Grinding is not a skill, it is not a unique ability; it is a highly repetitive task that is done to achieve a repetitive goal. The person who buys Crown scrolls is still grinding, they are only using hours they spent working in place of hours they spent playing. No unfair advantage is present.
'Some people don't have excess cashflow thus making it unfair [EDIT: that those who do can obtain things that those who don’t can not’]'. Some people don't have internet; every person with internet is inherently being unfair to those who do not have internet by applying this argument.

If you have access to a computer which can handle the graphics requirements for ESO and you have an internet connection that can handle the latency requirements for ESO, then, in my opinion, you are not in a situation where you are financially impaired. You may want something in-game that costs crowns, and not want to spend money on the crowns, but that does not equal "I can't buy crowns". What it says to me is "I will not budget to buy crowns".

SIDE NOTE: If you are a dependent, I.E. your folks are paying for your tech and your internet, I'm sorry kid. I begged my parents for spending money and occasionally got it; also I bought candy from Costco and Sams at discounted rates and sold it at school to get spending money. If you want money, there is (usually) an honest way to get it; just keep your eyes open.

On ZOS needing money: We enjoy a massive online game which necessitates heavy wear and tear on servers, constantly connected to the web, heavily monitored and protected from malicious attacks (hackers). Is ZOS Greedy? Sure. Would we be able to enjoy ESO as it is today if ZOS was not greedy? Certainly not. Greed is not a bad word.
I feel that ZOS could learn a lesson in profit by volume vs profit by unit, but at the end of the day, I understand and feel that the community should work harder to understand why ZOS charges so much for SWAG and tokens.

It is worth pointing out that ZOS does not offer buying instant level ups; they put thought into what they allow to be purchased by money instead of effort. I feel that ZOS should continue to innovate and expand upon what crowns can get a player.

As a gamer who is past his gaming prime, I appreciate the pay-for-fun aspects. Buying exp scrolls helps me regain the time I do not have to spend grinding for levels. I'm a working-person, and I can not achieve meaningful results from grinding alone (I buy exp scrolls). I have a family of 3 dependents who will not eat if I don't earn; to game is a luxury. I love ZOS for allowing me to continue enjoying the MMO scene even though I can't devote near as much time to it as I used to.

On that note, I believe ZOS would see an increase in spending on crown scrolls, motifs and tokens if they decreased the price of these items. I also believe that further inovation is necessary on what crowns can do for players.

Slick_007

Lunaugh wrote: »

On pay-to-win: I feel that one can view certain aspects of the game as Pay to Win, but I also feel that it is a very fine line. The imperial racial passives are unique and highly advantageous for a stamina-weapon=fighter build.

there are other races that are highly advantageous for stam builds too. your argument is wrong.

A lowest level of pay player (the initial cost of their ESO account) can play for years and never have access to the content. Pay-to-win. The Warden Class is another example (and I argue the only other example) of pay-to-win.

since warden has no advantage over other classes, you're wrong here as well.

'Some people don't have excess cashflow thus making it unfair to those who do not'. Some people don't have internet; every person with internet is inherently being unfair to those who do not have internet by applying this argument.

W.T.F.?

Lunaugh

If you carefully read my arguments, you will see that I wrote them cautiously. I do not believe the race of Imperial or the warden class make the ‘pay to win’ grade. I used it as the closest stretch I could imagine towards achieving a p2w scenario.

Morgul667

Zos has a good game and good ideas but some choices are very bad and get their players angry.

Outfit system could be awesome and the best of the market. yet many people dont use it because zos does not listen to its players (yet): no hide tabard and ridiculous outfit slots prices (we are talking 1500 crowns per char per slot which is huge and more than what internet costs. Between 1000 and 2000 dollars to have all the slots.you can choose to defend those pricing i certainly dont)

Another reason for people disliking zos behaviour is that many bugs are reported on pts and yet they are not corrected on live. Many players lost their items due to the storage bug. The bug was known on pts. Zos didnt solve it nor compensate the players that suffered it. I dont think ZOS is doing a good commercial job with its existing player base.

VaranisArano

I understand why ZOS charges as much as they do for Crown Store items.

Understanding why does not actually make me any more likely to spend money or crowns on anything I don't want, don't need, or don't feel is worth the money I'd pay for it.

Slick_007

Lunaugh wrote: »

If you carefully read my arguments, you will see that I wrote them cautiously. I do not believe the race of Imperial or the warden class make the ‘pay to win’ grade. I used it as the closest stretch I could imagine towards achieving a p2w scenario.

Lunaugh wrote: »

The Warden Class is another example (and I argue the only other example) of pay-to-win.

explain it again.

Acrolas

Lunaugh wrote: »

I believe ZOS would see an increase in spending on crown scrolls, motifs and tokens if they decreased the price of these items. I also believe that further inovation is necessary on what crowns can do for players.

That's your thesis. Everything before that was just condescending setup.

While new items would provide other ways to spend crowns, there's really no solid external evidence that lowering crown store prices would increase the sale of regularly priced crown packs. Only ZOS knows the actual spending habits of millions of players, so I think they have the better handle on their financial obligations and whether they are meeting them, exceeding them, or falling short of them.

VaranisArano

Honestly, I prefer to spend money on quality items. I love costumes. The recent spate of costumes that dye poorly or distort the body of my female characters simply don't catch my interest. So that's crowns I'm not spending because of quality issues.

Or consider crown crates. I'm happy to buy items when I know I can't get what I want, but not when I only have a chance at getting what I want. So where I would have spent crowns to get the Imperial Soldier costumes, I instead got them with gems from the free crate events.

Maybe I'm not supporting ZOS with my money when I should. From my perspective, ZOS isn't selling anything I want to spend money on.

Morgul667

VaranisArano wrote: »

I understand why ZOS charges as much as they do for Crown Store items.

Understanding why does not actually make me any more likely to spend money or crowns on anything I don't want, don't need, or don't feel is worth the money I'd pay for it.

I actually think they spend the money on attracting new players and not so much on making existing players happy.

I think crown stores items are shortsighted, they would sell more with better prices, bringing more profit a t the end of the day.

Sixty5

I'll criticise ZOS for the stuff they mess up and praise them for the stuff they get right.

As for the money, I have ESO plus, anything beyond that is at my own discretion

Lunaugh

I appreciate the wealth of comments and ideas which appear in this thread. Admittedly my OP is a form of attack; in my mind it is a retaliation towards ideas I've seen while perusing the forums; ideas that I feel are in part due to financial indifference and/or ignorance.

I feel that the discussion created here is a worthwhile result from my exclamations. I am not above revisiting my own arguments based on well thought out critiques and responses.

A condescending setup? I don't believe it was condescending, though it may appear that way (or it may be that way); it reflected my opinion that many individuals are ignorant or ambivalent to the subject of money yet still hold strong opinions toward ZOS as an entity for wanting to earn more of it.

WildRaptorX

I understand why they need the money. The business model was a subscription for everyone and they took that off. Of course they had to make that money up elsewhere

Rohamad_Ali

ZoS is doing fine financially . They do not need anyone pitching their product for them , they can afford super bowl commercial time lol .

Morgul667

Lunaugh wrote: »

I appreciate the wealth of comments and ideas which appear in this thread. Admittedly my OP is a form of attack; in my mind it is a retaliation towards ideas I've seen while perusing the forums; ideas that I feel are in part due to financial indifference and/or ignorance.

I feel that the discussion created here is a worthwhile result from my exclamations. I am not above revisiting my own arguments based on well thought out critiques and responses.

A condescending setup? I don't believe it was condescending, though it may appear that way (or it may be that way); it reflected my opinion that many individuals are ignorant or ambivalent to the subject of money yet still hold strong opinions toward ZOS as an entity for wanting to earn more of it.

Problem is that your post is based on the idea that most people dont understand anything about companies. Many of us understand more than you give us credit for and yet we still disagree with ZOS on recent prices.

Anotherone773

I paid $50 for this game and $15 a month for a sub. i am playing a laggy game full of crippling bugs that take far to long to fix, if they get fixed at all. On top of this when a bug is fixed, they manage to create 3 more. I have to reloadUI a lot, i would love to swap weapons, dodge, block and attack when i push the keys. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesnt. I die more because of bugs, gliches, lag, and so on than i do for any other reason.

We play on potato servers meanwhile Zenimax( the parent company of ZOS) is sitting on $2.5 BILLION equity. They have plenty of money to spend on decent hardware to run every single aspect of this game and on fixing bugs and gliche. $2.5 BILLION and we get ways to play dress up and put on fashion shows instead of being able to get to the heals on our backbar before we die....

Just let that sink in.

Yzalirk

I am just waiting for ZOS to actually add cool items to the Crown Store. All I want is Sai Sahan’s Beard and more long, braided beards. That is all. All the costumes honestly suck. In a game where you are a hero and savior of Nirn, you should at least dress the part. That does not mean wear dirty Highrock rags.

As for the Crown Crates, I would like for there to be a “no duplicate” system for collectibles. I opened three free Glame Atronach Crates and got lipstick twice. After that, I have no interest in buying crates... ever. The compensation of a few gems was just insulting. They contain cool items, sure, but is the risk really worth the reward?

Brotherchaotic

I'm waiting for ZOS to give XBOX the same subscription pricing options as PC and PS4. Only $14.99/month for Xbox. That's $179.88. PS4 and PC can get $12.99/month if they buy a 6 month subscription at $77.94. That's $155.88. Thats a differnce of $24. Xbox gives ZOS the majority of their money.

Lunaugh

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I paid $50 for this game and $15 a month for a sub. i am playing a laggy game full of crippling bugs that take far to long to fix, if they get fixed at all. On top of this when a bug is fixed, they manage to create 3 more. I have to reloadUI a lot, i would love to swap weapons, dodge, block and attack when i push the keys. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesnt. I die more because of bugs, gliches, lag, and so on than i do for any other reason.

We play on potato servers meanwhile Zenimax( the parent company of ZOS) is sitting on $2.5 BILLION equity. They have plenty of money to spend on decent hardware to run every single aspect of this game and on fixing bugs and gliche. $2.5 BILLION and we get ways to play dress up and put on fashion shows instead of being able to get to the heals on our backbar before we die....

Just let that sink in.

Equity does not equal cash flow. Equity equals the potential income owner(s) will recieve if they liquidate their holdings.
I feel that to assume the big wigs of ZOS are swimming in money is erroneous without some inside information, which I have not seen evidence of.

At the end of the day, we still play. That means they are doing something right.

Being a large company which has experienced success does not necessarily equal financial omnipotence. Sometimes the simple solutions can be overlooked, and until I recieve something from ZOS, I will take no discouragment from contrary arguments.

I do assume that many individuals do not have a grasp of financial literacy. I do not claim to feel most. If you feel I’m calling you ignorant, thats on you.

Slick_007

Brotherchaotic wrote: »

I'm waiting for ZOS to give XBOX the same subscription pricing options as PC and PS4. Only $14.99/month for Xbox. That's $179.88. PS4 and PC can get $12.99/month if they buy a 6 month subscription at $77.94. That's $155.88. Thats a differnce of $24. Xbox gives ZOS the majority of their money.

id bet they give zos 12.99/month in those figures

Kikke

What is this logic? DLC's are pay too win? NERF DLC's!!!!!

Lunaugh

kikkehs wrote: »

What is this logic? DLC's are pay too win? NERF DLC's!!!!!

Let me begin with: I love you Kikkehs.

My personal view is that the concept of pay-to-win does not apply to ESO.
In my opinion, being allowed to spend crowns for legendary gear that levels with the player would be an example of pay-to-win.

Morgul667 wrote: »

I actually think they spend the money on attracting new players and not so much on making existing players happy.

I think crown stores items are shortsighted, they would sell more with better prices, bringing more profit a t the end of the day.

I agree. I feel that they lack focus on retention. I also feel it is symptomatic of being a leader in their industry. They have a game that is rich in lore and (for now) no shortage of individuals interested in diving into the land of Elder Scrolls from an MMO perspective.

On a tangent, it is possible that ZOS wants to milk ESO for all it can while covertly developing their next MMO as new innovations and technologies for gaming are on the horizon. If that is the case, I will still confidently hand over some of my hard earned $ to support their launch into the future, so that I may thoroughly enjoy my present as an Khajiti Slave, an enscorcled Bosmer, a crafty Imperial assassin, etc, etc.

Anotherone773

Lunaugh wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I paid $50 for this game and $15 a month for a sub. i am playing a laggy game full of crippling bugs that take far to long to fix, if they get fixed at all. On top of this when a bug is fixed, they manage to create 3 more. I have to reloadUI a lot, i would love to swap weapons, dodge, block and attack when i push the keys. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesnt. I die more because of bugs, gliches, lag, and so on than i do for any other reason.

We play on potato servers meanwhile Zenimax( the parent company of ZOS) is sitting on $2.5 BILLION equity. They have plenty of money to spend on decent hardware to run every single aspect of this game and on fixing bugs and gliche. $2.5 BILLION and we get ways to play dress up and put on fashion shows instead of being able to get to the heals on our backbar before we die....

Just let that sink in.

Equity does not equal cash flow. Equity equals the potential income owner(s) will recieve if they liquidate their holdings.
I feel that to assume the big wigs of ZOS are swimming in money is erroneous without some inside information, which I have not seen evidence of.

At the end of the day, we still play. That means they are doing something right.

Being a large company which has experienced success does not necessarily equal financial omnipotence. Sometimes the simple solutions can be overlooked, and until I recieve something from ZOS, I will take no discouragment from contrary arguments.

I do assume that many individuals fo not have a grasp of financial literacy. I do not claim to feel most. If you feel I’m calling you ignorant, thats on you.

Actually as a successful business owner and one that deals, on the daily basis, with equity, assets, and liabilities it tells me quite a bit given my experience with many of their titles.

If you have a lot of assets but little cash flow, then your not properly managing your business. IE: your not investing money in the right places. More assets should generate you more cash flow. In business having assets for the sake of having assets is a no no. If that asset isnt making you money, it should be liquidated and that money invested in something that will increase your revenue.

Many game companies are short sighted. Put out a crappy product, dont fix it, charge for features that should be included, keep charging for extras while ignoring the underlying issues within the game. Keep adding content for people to buy while not fixing any of the problems customers care about.

The end result of this model of business is companies like Machine Zone( Game of War), Kabam( various titles), Niantic( Pokemon Go). They could of been great but they were basically " One hit wonders" because of poor greed based decisions.

Yes we still play... the ones that are here right now...which is irrelevant. How many people have came and gone? Why did they leave? How many new players had to many issues with the game and left? How many new players will be put off by negative reviews? Once you get a reputation for being a poor choice to do business with, very few will do business with you.

Look at player retention. How many players have played this game 3 or more years? I play a MMO on and off which has players that have played for a decade or more, not just small portion either, its a good chunk. This same game is nearly bug free and major bugs get fixed within 48 hours usually. That IC bug would of never made it to live and if it somehow did, they sure wouldnt ban people for it. Banning people for duping items, sure. But how many people pay attention to experience gains in this game? And the experience gain is way out of whack. I mean you gain experience at one rate then you hit champion run you daily dungeon and gain 10 plus CP from a single dungeon run. You have quests that pay 1/3 of other quests. Opening a chest nets me 4k xp but killing a normal mob nets me 1.8k while an elite nets 5.5k. So opening a chest is twice as much work as killing something but slightly easier than killing an elite? That makes zero sense. But just ban people for it anyway. You should never ban players because you screwed up on something that is very easy to accidently exploit, EVER. You should own up to your mistakes.

Lunaugh

@ Anotherone773
Thank you for your insights. I agree with much of what you have to say.

It is my fervent wish that ZOS will spend future efforts on player retention and enhancing the virtual society and virtual economy.

It is my stalwart belief that whining about crown prices, misspelling the companies name with a $ instead of an S and other similar forms of complaint are not going receive the time of day from any level of ZOS representative.

I feel that having a high volume thread which begins in praise to those who allow us to express our voice in this digital forum is a step in the right direction. I want ZOS' attention. I want to push positive solutions to perceived problems. I want the same end goal as many, many other players; to have a better, more enjoyable ESO.

monktoasty

They do not need to.gouge prices. If you gonna have cash shop make it affordable for all.

They do not need loot crates..or at least loot crates with pitiful chances at anything good.

I'd wager fixing those things would make them even more money as more people would buy things.

Zbigb4life

Another post of a fanboy who only thinks this game had no issues/flaws

Lunaugh

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Another post of a fanboy who only thinks this game had no issues/flaws

Consrtuctive Criticism is welcome. I love trolls, their flesh is delicious if you can get over the smell.

TheCyberDruid

Lunaugh wrote: »

I feel that ZOS could learn a lesson in profit by volume vs profit by unit, but at the end of the day, I understand and feel that the community should work harder to understand why ZOS charges so much for SWAG and tokens.

Yeah, the community is the problem. Would be better if there was no community and just money being handed to ZOS without any cause. While I see where you are coming from (paying money for convenience which is fine), I really think you got this one backwards. ZOS needs to figure out how to keep their players happy and engaged, not the other way around. There are more than enough examples of what happens to companies (or games) that think otherwise.

Lunaugh

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Yeah, the community is the problem. Would be better if there was no community and just money being handed to ZOS without any cause. While I see where you are coming from (paying money for convenience which is fine), I really think you got this one backwards. ZOS needs to figure out how to keep their players happy and engaged, not the other way around. There are more than enough examples of what happens to companies (or games) that think otherwise.

I appreciate your input.
I will admit I've done some instigating.

If the Empire levies a tax on the farmer, requiring the farmer to pay in food stores what he can not pay in gold, and the farmer can not afford to give up any food for fear of the coming winter, the farmer must seek a different resolution.
I would not blame the farmer for chasing after the Imperial Tax collector with a rusty pitchfork; I'd say he is justified.
I will say that chasing the Tax collector will not ease his tax burden, and will likely end with the farmer being shanked by a guard who's adventuring days were ended by an arrow to the knee.
The emperor will not listen to a citizen who starts by screaming obscenities or grievances.
Because there are more farmers, the one farmer should instead gather more farmers who feel the injustice of the tax.
Now to follow this analogy too far would be unproductive, as history has shown many such events ended in a show of force from the governing body, slaughtering a few of the protesters to shut up the rest. That is not an option in the scenario we face.
Players need to keep a few things in mind when criticizing the company that floats their game (imo). Among them are the fact that name calling and finger-pointing will get them ignored faster than an invisibility potion.
You want your opinion to be respected, begin by respecting those who would respect your opinion.

It is possible to express grievances without loosing composure, especially in the form of communication we embrace here: Text.

We have edit buttons and the ability to review before we post.
ZOS is not perfect.
I am not perfect.
Neither are you.
Lets work together in the true spirit of 'Forum' and discover what we can achieve.

Edit: Spelling

Rouven

ESO player #1: "What are you getting ZOS for christmas this year?"

ESO player #2: "I'm giving ZOS all my love!"

ESO player #1: " Well that's not very clever."

ESO player #2: " What? Why not? It's free."

ESO player #1: "Yeah, but then you have nothing left for the birthday."


On topic: Of course every company needs to make money. How they do it is up to them - and if the customers are willing to accept that offer then all is good. The worst thing (from their perspective) you can do is not spend any money and leave without a word. Because then they don't know what made you leave. Well that's my short version of 2c here.