Grothdar will go extinct because of zaan

Seraphayel

DocFrost72 wrote: »

A
O
E

Even if you can stay in melee range for boss fights, zaan stinks on trash compared to grothdar. Use one for trash, one for boss if we're discussing absolute optimization.

And then there are still 10 other DPS sets that are trash so OP is not wrong at all.

Waffennacht

Jeremy wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Period. Nerf damage or get rid of every other magicka based monster set as they are not needed... skoria for range zaan for melee and thats basicly it huh? No point of even considering another option.

#Balance

I also believe zos dug themselves into a hole here. Too many monster sets do same thing as others. This is another grothdar with higher damage thats all.

Are we really gonna consider other monster sets based off the 1 piece bonus it gives?

Nerf zaan. But when you nerf zan it becomes same exact thing as grothdar just different look... i dont see how this is progressive at all.

Grothdar is extremely easy to get when compared to Zaan. So Zaan should be better.

Where did this idea come from anyway that everything on an MMORPG is suppose to be "balanced" with nothing being better than anything else? That has never been the case. Usually the more difficult an item is to obtain the better it is. And veteran scalecaller peak makes veteran vaults of madness look like a hello kitty game.

Well there is something called PvP

Edit: and fyi hello kitty is harder than vet vaults of madness

Jeremy

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Period. Nerf damage or get rid of every other magicka based monster set as they are not needed... skoria for range zaan for melee and thats basicly it huh? No point of even considering another option.

#Balance

I also believe zos dug themselves into a hole here. Too many monster sets do same thing as others. This is another grothdar with higher damage thats all.

Are we really gonna consider other monster sets based off the 1 piece bonus it gives?

Nerf zaan. But when you nerf zan it becomes same exact thing as grothdar just different look... i dont see how this is progressive at all.

Grothdar is extremely easy to get when compared to Zaan. So Zaan should be better.

Where did this idea come from anyway that everything on an MMORPG is suppose to be "balanced" with nothing being better than anything else? That has never been the case. Usually the more difficult an item is to obtain the better it is. And veteran scalecaller peak makes veteran vaults of madness look like a hello kitty game.

Well there is something called PvP

And certain items are better in PvP than others. That's the way it has always been.

Peekachu99

One is single target, one is aoe. What are you talking about?

s7732425ub17_ESO

Zaan is balanced. I still prefer Ilambris and Grothdarr over it because they all do roughly the same damage, but Zaan requires you to be in super close melee range.

NyassaV

Grothdarr has some pretty awesome cleave in PvE and PvP. So it won't be used as much, that is certain. But it is not at all useless

KraziJoe

Why is someone complaining about something being "Over Powered" in PVE?

ol_BANK_lo

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Period. Nerf damage or get rid of every other magicka based monster set as they are not needed... skoria for range zaan for melee and thats basicly it huh? No point of even considering another option.

#Balance

I also believe zos dug themselves into a hole here. Too many monster sets do same thing as others. This is another grothdar with higher damage thats all.

Are we really gonna consider other monster sets based off the 1 piece bonus it gives?

Nerf zaan. But when you nerf zan it becomes same exact thing as grothdar just different look... i dont see how this is progressive at all.

This post makes no sense whatsoever. Zaan can't be used at range. Llambris and Skoria can. Zaan is single target. Llambris, Skoria, Nerien'eth are all AOE. Zaan has 18 second cool down. Nerien'eth is 3 seconds; Llambris is 8 seconds; Grothdarr is 10 seconds. They also all proc off different things.

Soooo, in short...Stop complaining. Stop with the nerf. Stop with the exaggeration that the world is ending.

ol_BANK_lo

Jhalin wrote: »

I can confidently say op hasn't used Zaan yet. It's a very minor single-target dps increase, and it's immediately outperformed if there are two adds during a fight.

This

Insanepirate01

Melee mage lol

Danksta

KraziJoe wrote: »

Why is someone complaining about something being "Over Powered" in PVE?

The real question you should be asking is, "Why would someone complain about something being overpowered without even using it or having gone up against it?".

The OP is on Xbox.

pteam

Another nerf thread? It’s already been nerfed once. It does a little bit higher dps on a single target and thus you lose AoE Damage.

Why don’t we just nerf every monster set and then nerf Sorcs, Nightblades, tanks and healers!

Why would you want them to nerf sets in pve? You want your group to do less damage?? They already nerfed off balance so all groups are getting a nerf there in pve, so now u want more pve nerfs so we can do even less damage? smh

OutLaw_Nynx

I hate your threads, OP.

All you want is nerfs. Please go away

Runefang

Nerf Spell Power because now Combat Physician will go extinct. Oh wait.

Nerf Julianos because now Overwhelming Surge will go extinct. Oh wait.

It's the nature of balancing PvE that what's best (or perceived to be best) will always rise to the top, even if only slightly better. If you nerf Zaan such that it competes with Grothdarr then Zaan will go extinct instead.

Ihatenightblades

Runefang wrote: »

Nerf Spell Power because now Combat Physician will go extinct. Oh wait.

Nerf Julianos because now Overwhelming Surge will go extinct. Oh wait.

It's the nature of balancing PvE that what's best (or perceived to be best) will always rise to the top, even if only slightly better. If you nerf Zaan such that it competes with Grothdarr then Zaan will go extinct instead.

Zaan will never go extinct bro.. its op in a 1v1 period. Have you fought a mag dk with zaan? Its the most broken tooltip ever. Its like it crits. But doesn't....

Ihatenightblades

pteam wrote: »

Another nerf thread? It’s already been nerfed once. It does a little bit higher dps on a single target and thus you lose AoE Damage.

Why don’t we just nerf every monster set and then nerf Sorcs, Nightblades, tanks and healers!

Why would you want them to nerf sets in pve? You want your group to do less damage?? They already nerfed off balance so all groups are getting a nerf there in pve, so now u want more pve nerfs so we can do even less damage? smh

I didnt go on a full rant its also the most overpowered thing in a 1v1. Its a 2 piece that does more damage than viper in its prime days.. engulfing flames - embers - zaan - fossilize - meteor - GG

Just wait bud

Ihatenightblades

Danksta wrote: »

KraziJoe wrote: »

Why is someone complaining about something being "Over Powered" in PVE?

The real question you should be asking is, "Why would someone complain about something being overpowered without even using it or having gone up against it?".

The OP is on Xbox.

Because im not dumb dude i see the tool tip i watch streams i add up what i see with what I already know and im not the only one who feels this way so seems like im right

ak_pvp

A new stupid has entered the building.

Step one - apply engulfing flames -
Step two - apply embers
Step three - wait for zaan proc
Step four - fossilize into meteor combo into whips
Step five - ignore hate mail.

Right. So you might beat someone in a squishy duel setup. Go OW. Get squished. Things like them that are OP in a duel only environment will be banned or at least considered an unfair win anyway. I.e. blessed armour.

And honestly, It can be countered easier than you think. Zaan procs. Someone CCs you and moves away. (Immo pots aren't fair game in many duels) They can also just mist. Oops, no CC, and meteor+zaan deal meh damage. Magplar can purge the beam as they see it, NB can cloak it, and cloak fossilize.

Dracane

Zaan is strictly single target, Grothdarr is AoE and will be better as soon as there is more than 1 enemy, which is basically always the case. I am tired of these "Nerf Zaan" threads, so unnecessary.

LioraValkyrie

None of these sets will ever be 'dead' unless another comes along that does exactly the same thing objectively better. The introduction of Zaan is refreshing, in my opinion, because it adds yet another option and conditional BiS to our arsenal.

For an example of how diversity works if we are talking about absolute optimization, let's take Scalecaller Peak...

First boss: I would prefer Ilambris/Skoria because you are often forced to play at range and focus on a single target. If playing PetSorc, which I do, I would use Maw. The Zaan beam range would be broken too often to deal sustained damage.

Second boss: The hoards of ice wraiths are more troublesome than the boss himself, so I would use Grothdarr over anything else.

Third boss: Depending on how the group plays this one, I would either go Zaan if doing a hard nuke or Ilambris/Skoria if taking out the nereids. One member of the group might even use Infernal Guardian to help locate where the nereids are whilst damaging them at the same time.

Fourth boss: Because most of this fight can be conducted at close range, Zaan might be a good option. On the other hand, the quick cooldown of Skoria and Ilambris should be taken into consideration for swiftly dispatching the ads. The long Zaan cooldown means it might not proc at all during this phase, leading to more time spent spread across the map.

Final boss: Particularly in hard mode, you will not always be within 10-15 metres of anything at all so Skoria would probably be best, particularly for that little bit of extra health. Because there is so much going on already, I would stay away from Maw, even on my PetSorc.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Nope. Lets not nerf it.

Ihatenightblades

ak_pvp wrote: »

A new stupid has entered the building.

Step one - apply engulfing flames -
Step two - apply embers
Step three - wait for zaan proc
Step four - fossilize into meteor combo into whips
Step five - ignore hate mail.

Right. So you might beat someone in a squishy duel setup. Go OW. Get squished. Things like them that are OP in a duel only environment will be banned or at least considered an unfair win anyway. I.e. blessed armour.

And honestly, It can be countered easier than you think. Zaan procs. Someone CCs you and moves away. (Immo pots aren't fair game in many duels) They can also just mist. Oops, no CC, and meteor+zaan deal meh damage. Magplar can purge the beam as they see it, NB can cloak it, and cloak fossilize.

Mist form cost a ton and is a get away skill not a stalling skill.. if you think you can win a 1v1 with mist form on you are hilarious

Yamenstein

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

A new stupid has entered the building.

Step one - apply engulfing flames -
Step two - apply embers
Step three - wait for zaan proc
Step four - fossilize into meteor combo into whips
Step five - ignore hate mail.

Right. So you might beat someone in a squishy duel setup. Go OW. Get squished. Things like them that are OP in a duel only environment will be banned or at least considered an unfair win anyway. I.e. blessed armour.

And honestly, It can be countered easier than you think. Zaan procs. Someone CCs you and moves away. (Immo pots aren't fair game in many duels) They can also just mist. Oops, no CC, and meteor+zaan deal meh damage. Magplar can purge the beam as they see it, NB can cloak it, and cloak fossilize.

Mist form cost a ton and is a get away skill not a stalling skill.. if you think you can win a 1v1 with mist form on you are hilarious

Sounds like good ol learn to play. Mist form reduces damage which is a really good defence when feeling pressured.

Please wait until you have actually tested the piece before you start to rant about it.

Oh, do you not like it because you won't be getting the new DLC so you can't use it ? Or do you plan on getting it but you think it's too difficult to complete the vet dungeon?

The damage on zaan ramps up and it can break off easily if you actually move. But that won't mean anything to you because so far everyone has given great reasons why it doesn't need a Nerf but you have just come up with an excuse each time. So ah well. Rant away in this rant thread.

Yamenstein

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

pteam wrote: »

Another nerf thread? It’s already been nerfed once. It does a little bit higher dps on a single target and thus you lose AoE Damage.

Why don’t we just nerf every monster set and then nerf Sorcs, Nightblades, tanks and healers!

Why would you want them to nerf sets in pve? You want your group to do less damage?? They already nerfed off balance so all groups are getting a nerf there in pve, so now u want more pve nerfs so we can do even less damage? smh

I didnt go on a full rant its also the most overpowered thing in a 1v1. Its a 2 piece that does more damage than viper in its prime days.. engulfing flames - embers - zaan - fossilize - meteor - GG

Just wait bud

In this situation you give is the other player in squishy armour and not moving? Because I can heavy attack - heavy attack - heavy attack -GG as well.

Avran_Sylt

If ZoS continues the trend of Single Target boss fights, then yes. I do hope that they will branch out from that though, and have some boss fights where AoE shines. (Where the overall health pool is larger than that of a normal single boss, but spread).

You could argue that Grothdar is better for Trash mobs, and you could swap between sets at the right leg of a dungeon to get an overall performance boost, but that isn't really a thing I think most players will do.

Ackwalan

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Period. Nerf damage or get rid of every other magicka based monster set as they are not needed... skoria for range zaan for melee and thats basicly it huh? No point of even considering another option.

#Balance

Just a curiosity, though, if Zaan's beam can be broken by line of sight, like a tree or something. Wouldn't Grothdar still be viable as it is an AOE?

Im talkin pve.

Why would a PvE mob send you hate mail?

OutLaw_Nynx

Ackwalan wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Period. Nerf damage or get rid of every other magicka based monster set as they are not needed... skoria for range zaan for melee and thats basicly it huh? No point of even considering another option.

#Balance

Just a curiosity, though, if Zaan's beam can be broken by line of sight, like a tree or something. Wouldn't Grothdar still be viable as it is an AOE?

Im talkin pve.

Why would a PvE mob send you hate mail?

That would be kinda cool though. All the trial bosses getting salty

supaskrub

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

The OP is on Xbox.

Because im not dumb dude i see the tool tip i watch streams i add up what i see with what I already know and im not the only one who feels this way so seems like im right

Yeah.. but you are generally wrong and have it pointed out to you many times in your ,many posts which all seem to run on a similar vein.. nerfing.. and whats more you have a condescending attitude to anyone who dare's to question what you say.

Instead of you calling for nerfs again why not come to terms with the fact that folks use the best set for the job in hand. One set can be good in one field but not so good in another and thats the way it should be, of a set overperforms in any scenario then the first place you will hear about it is here with lots of QQ'ing.. Its not happening so let that speak for itself.

ArchMikem

Uh... Grothdarr AoE, ZAAN single target?

Highly doubt Sorcs or DKs specializing in that would give up an extra AoE just cause ZAAN does more damage to a single target on paper. Not to mention its incredibly long cooldown. This whole ZAAN doomsday plz nerfscapade needs to cooldown.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Grothdarr will not die, because it is (for now) incomparably easier to get than Zaan.
The new dungeons are hard in vet mode, you can't really PUG them and you need good comrades in your group to finish it.
So for now Grothdarr must remain a viable alternative - which it is.
Zaan being slightly better (depending on the circumstances) is a logical reward since the dungeon to beat to get it is much harder than Grothdarr's, vault of madness being the walk in the park that it is now, even on vet.