Dyes: "Coldharbour Ash Black" and "Legate's Black"

duendology

Guys,

Those of you who own these two dyes, what is the difference between these: "Coldharbour Ash Black" and "Legate's Black"?

On UESOP they look pretty much the same.. but from my experience you can't trust the colour until you see it on armor.

Arobain

i'm curious too

Feanor

Coldharbour Ash Black often comes out as not real black but lighter. The only real true dark black is Legate‘s Black.

duendology

I thought so. Thanks, Feanor

Capsaica

Legate black is much more glossy - almost as if you are wearing an oil slick (as the all-knowledgeable friend khajiit @Recremen likes to say).

The best black in the game.

duendology

So many deaths, so, so, so many deaths before I obtain the Legate's Black. lol

One more question.. is Coldharbour Ash Black a darker shade of black than Thalmor Black? (I can't believe I am talking about shades of black lol..such things only in eso lol)

Marginis

Legate Black is a blue-black, and glossy. Coldharbour Ash Black is a red-black, and matte. So CAB is flat and brownish, LB is cooler colored and shiny, but they are both the darkest blacks of their types.

I have played on PC and xbox on different graphics and color settings, and I studied color theory while I was getting my degree in graphic design, so I know what I'm talking about.

Recremen

Coldharbour Ash Black




Legate Black

Nestor

TBH, it does not matter what the Base Color is supposed to be. Each and every dye looks different on each and every material and to some extent, motif style, and even tier.

The only way to get what you really want in a dyed color is to apply it to the item and see. Now, at least with the Outfit stations, we can preview what Motifs, Material and Level looks like with the various dyes.

CAB has come out red to gray to black depending on what I am applying it to. For example, you want a true brilliant in your face red dye, you have to use Pact Conqueror Red on a mid tier metal, like Steel or Quicksilver. Using it on say Rubedite, it comes out as a Rose Pink color.

duendology

@Recremen , thank you SO MUCH for the pictures!!!! Thank YOU! Much, much, much appreciated.

@Marginis , not sure why it matters but I am an art historian MA (soon phd) and have studied probably all known theories of colour ... and I can say that eso developed its own system... And thanks for the descriptions

@Nestor , I agree with you... a reason I said "don't trust the colour until you see it on armor".

Marginis

duendology wrote: »

@Marginis , not sure why it matters but I am an art historian MA (soon phd) and have studied probably all known theories of colour ... and I can say that eso developed its own system... And thanks for the descriptions

People have told me that I'm talking out of my tail before - so I wanted to say right off the bat that this isn't BS. And while materials in ESO affect how to color appears (similar to real life) like @Nestor said, of note some rarer dyes also have a translucent top layer when applied, giving off a particular sheen in the light. Coldharbour Ash Black does not have this as far as I've seen, but I'm not sure about Legate Black, so that may be another thing to factor in.

duendology

@Marginis
Agreed, agreed.
At the moment it's much faster for me to obtain CAB. (I couldn't be arsed to finish the Main Story, really, maybe the dye convinces me lol)
I plan to use it only on fabric (such as light Assassin's jerkin/robe and alike)..maybe on some medium armor. So it should look like a black one, flat or not. But we'll see.

@Nestor said CAB looks like a rose pink on rubedite (uggh o_0...that's so wrong!)...so for the heavy pieces I'll still use Thalmor Black until, someday, I get the Legate's Black. I am not in hurry.

Marginis

CAB is the one to go to if you want an actual black, definitely. LB takes FOREVER.

Beamer_Miasma

The special thing about CAB is that it has a very muted specular power, which makes it look very black under all lighting conditions.

In simple terms, the specular map is a texture that determines how a material reflects light, so it can be used to create materials that look shiny because they have reflective surfaces (like polished steel or a water surface) or materials that look matte and reflect light much more diffuse (like a sheet of woven cotton). In addition to this there is typically a specular power parameter that determines how much light is reflected (or how much is absorbed, if you prefer).

As far as I've been able to tell, the specular map is determined by the material/tier you are using, whereas the specular power is a parameter of the color you apply to it. For CAB this is very low which results in a matte black look even on the more shiny top tier materials.

The above pictures show this quite clearly already, although it becomes even more obvious when the material or the light source are moving around. The CAB picture shows a lot less reflected light than the LB one around the pecs areas and the creases on the skirt.

So there's a bit more to it and just the pure color. LB might be more black and CAB more a very dark grey, but the matte effect that CAB gives to any material it is applied to causes it to blend in with the shadows much better and give a more deep black effect to the eyes under changing lighting conditions than any of the other near-black colors.

duendology

@Marginis, thanks again.
Just one more quest and I'll have the CAB tonight. ;P

@Beamer_Miasma , it 's very insightful!! Thank you.

There should be some informative site showing eso colours on all kinds of armor and both in bright light as well as when it's not the bright sunny day in Tamriel. Without that... the eso palette is/remains VERY misleading.

Nestor

duendology wrote: »

@Marginis

@Nestor said CAB looks like a rose pink on rubedite (uggh o_0...that's so wrong!)...so for the heavy pieces I'll still use Thalmor Black until, someday, I get the Legate's Black. I am not in hurry.

Actually, it is the Pact Conqueror Red that comes out that way. The Red of CAB, if it comes out that way, is a dark gray red.

I have had CAB come out in different hues though depending on material. Lower level stuff, it's a good black, higher level, I am looking for other things. Perhaps Thalmor would work on some things. I have heard that Legate Black is more of a truer black on most things, but I have yet to unlock that one, and based on my PvP experience, or rather, lack there of, I probably never will.

Nestor

I will say that I have taken to just doing a Randomize now on my dyes. Since they can look so different, it makes it so that I use shades I may have never even tried. Oddly enough, it seems to always be the first random pattern that I really like. I have taken to writing down the dyes as I randomize some more, then I recreate the first one I saw.

Someone above mentioned lighting, and as much as I like Black as a Dye on gear, it does make the style of the gear kind of disappear unless your in a well lit area, if your lucky to get a near black result from the dye. This has stopped me from using a lot of blacks now. Although, a recent Argonian Medium Leather outfit looks nice with a palette of black, gray and blue.

Taleof2Cities

duendology wrote: »

There should be some informative site showing eso colours on all kinds of armor and both in bright light as well as when it's not the bright sunny day in Tamriel. Without that... the eso palette is/remains VERY misleading.

This would be a massive undertaking though.

You’re talking about posting pictures of each color multiplied by the fabric palettes on light, medium, and heavy (for which each of those have multiple palettes depending on the motif). That’s not including the time it takes to unlock the dyes.

For now, at least you have the outfit station preview before you commit to an outfit or craft new gear (with the dyes that are unlocked).

Recremen

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

There should be some informative site showing eso colours on all kinds of armor and both in bright light as well as when it's not the bright sunny day in Tamriel. Without that... the eso palette is/remains VERY misleading.

This would be a massive undertaking though.

You’re talking about posting pictures of each color multiplied by the fabric palettes on light, medium, and heavy (for which each of those have multiple palettes depending on the motif). That’s not including the time it takes to unlock the dyes.

For now, at least you have the outfit station preview before you commit to an outfit or craft new gear (with the dyes that are unlocked).

I'm actually quite interested in helping with this, if possible. I have almost every dye unlocked, requiring only the fishing and battleground ones, which I'm hoping to finish up this patch. I also have every motif currently available in game and do not expect to fall behind at all. As long as I can get a well-lit dye station I do suppose this is possible to manage... we'll see how those fishing and battleground dyes come.

duendology

So, I got the CAB and I am quite pleased with it. It even looks nice on heavy pieces: shoulders and gloves (styles: Outlaw and Assassin's).



If I had known it's a rather nice "shade" of black I would have finished the Main Story quest line much, much earlier. :P
Of course the dye change an all pieces cost me above 4k.. but..we love zos, don't we?

You can't see the details on armour... this is true... but I like it, for now.

Feanor

What I found really interesting when playing with Armour colors: Add Transliminal Violet to the mix. It never shows up as the violet but somehow makes the other colors stronger: a more gold Ayleid Gold for example. It’s one of the most used colors for me.

duendology

Haven't collected this one yet. Sounds intriguing.

One of the colours that really surprised me was "Entoloma Blue". It gives this another layer of shiny not necessarily changing the base colour but rather giving it this turquoise/bluish glowing. Very interesting.

moonio

Has the Coldharbour Ash black dye changed?
I looked at some of my toons yesterday and the colour is now faded and more of a green grey??

Coldharbour Ash Black used to dye as an almost flat black which although it lacked detail was quite striking and satisfying.

Has anyone else noticed a change?

Maybe its my new monitor settings?

duendology

@moonio
I haven't paid much attention but I'll check it when I play this weekend.

moonio

Thanks, its really beginning to bother me lol..

Coldharbour back is/was the blackest black that you could find in the game, and I am worried that they have nerfed it!!!

OMG....

Taleof2Cities

moonio wrote: »

Thanks, its really beginning to bother me lol..

Coldharbour back is/was the blackest black that you could find in the game, and I am worried that they have nerfed it!!!

OMG....

Sorry, but that’s not an accurate statement.

I posted some screenshots back at the beginning of May to show a comparison of the two. Legate Black dyes a lot better.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5126841#Comment_5126841

moonio

I feel that Legate black has blue highlight reflections whilst coldharbour black has/had warm grey highights..
It makes a lot of difference.

Maybe you prefer the cooler tones?

Marginis

moonio wrote: »

Has the Coldharbour Ash black dye changed?
I looked at some of my toons yesterday and the colour is now faded and more of a green grey??

Coldharbour Ash Black used to dye as an almost flat black which although it lacked detail was quite striking and satisfying.

Has anyone else noticed a change?

Maybe its my new monitor settings?

CAB has not changed. Check your settings, probably, if you're looking at the same armor and everything from before.