Healing - What am I doing wrong?

Seraphayel

gabriebe wrote: »

I would switch your Julianos for Twilights Embrace, personnally. Helps with the HoTs you are lacking. If you arent into vet trials, I'd say you could even backbar your SPC on a s&board bar, get it to proc with orbs or rapid regeneration and add 2 pc Earthgore to the mix so you can heavy attack to gain ressources back with a safety net.

Khajit Sorc healer though is a very weird choice. You could make use of Bone Shield to take advantage of the extra stam you dont need.

Why Twilights Embrace? It only increases healing you receive - did I miss something?

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Twilight's+Embrace+Set

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

I would switch your Julianos for Twilights Embrace, personnally. Helps with the HoTs you are lacking. If you arent into vet trials, I'd say you could even backbar your SPC on a s&board bar, get it to proc with orbs or rapid regeneration and add 2 pc Earthgore to the mix so you can heavy attack to gain ressources back with a safety net.

Khajit Sorc healer though is a very weird choice. You could make use of Bone Shield to take advantage of the extra stam you dont need.

Why Twilights Embrace? It only increases healing you receive - did I miss something?

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Twilight's+Embrace+Set

They mean http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Twilight_Remedy

zaria

Griffe wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Khajiit doesn't have a racial bonus on healing nor magicka. That's prob what's going on

It does not really matter. My kitty NB healer has 41k magicka and 2.3k magicka recovery. Thanks to the CP for the healing part, but I did fine when they did not exist at all.
I am only speaking about a healer point of view. I do not think I can tell the same for DD... (Actually I do not really know, I only play healers.)

Healing is less about raw magic or spell damage than DD, racial bonuses for healing is also less.
Sorcerer healer has some benefit, dark conversion give good sustain, they do excellent damage and have an very strong emergency heal, the 10 second shield is also sweet, way easier to keep up than a 6 second one.
I feel that sorcerer is more of an dungeon healer than trials, both dps and the good emergency heal is far more relevant here.

troomar

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sorcs basically have 3 things that arguably help the group when healing. ... Compare that to what a Templar and Warden can offer and its pretty laughable...

I love when someone is spreading FUD about things that can be easily verified

For the trial purpose I made a list of buffs/debuffs/utilities, so I and my party know what I can and should provide. While I'm not saying these buffs are exclusive to sorcerers, it's far from "3 arguable things". Also the listed uptimes are only theoretical, it can and will differ in real fights.

Party Buffs from Skills
Minor Berserk, 100% uptime (Combat Prayer) - Damage Done +8%
Minor Resolve, 100% uptime (Combat Prayer) - Physical Resistance +1320
Minor Ward, 100% uptime (Combat Prayer) - Spell Resistance +1320
Minor Intelect, 100% uptime (Empowered Ward) - Magicka Recovery +10%
Spinal Surge synergy, 4 members (Bone Surge) - 100% HP Damage Shield for 10 seconds
Major Vitality, 4 members (Bone Surge) - Healing Received +30%
Minor Protection, 100% uptime (Ring of Preservation) - Damage Taken -8%
Minor Endurance, 100% uptime (Ring of Preservation) - Stamina Recovery +20%
Roll Dodge Cost Reduction, 100% uptime (Ring of Preservation) - Roll dodge cost -20%
Exploitation, 100% uptime (Dark Magic passive skill) - +657 Spell Critical
Major Berserk, 8 seconds, ult+global cooldown (Summon Charged Atronach) - Damage Done +25%
Minor Toughtness, ult cooldown (Aggressive Warhorn) - +10% Max Health
Max Magicka, Max Stamina, ult cooldown (Aggressive Warhorn) - +10% Max Magicka, +10% Max Stamina
Major Force, 9.5 seconds, ult cooldown (Aggressive Warhorn) - Critical Damage Done +15%

Party Buffs from Sets
Healing Combustion Synergy (Energy Orb) - ~7000 Health burst heal, ~4000 Magicka or Stamina
Minor Force, 100%* uptime (Twilight Remedy 5-piece set effect) - Critical Damage Done +10%
SPC effect, ~80% uptime (Spell Power Cure 5-piece set effect) - Spell Damage +252, Weapon Damage +252

Party Heals
Blood Funnel Synergy, cooldown (Sanguine Altar) - +50% Health
Burst Heal, aoe (Combat Prayer) - Burst heal ~6724 Health
Burst Heal, 2 targets (Summon Twillight Matriarch) - Burst ~9235 Health, targets with the lowest Health
HoT, aoe (Healing Springs) - HoT ~2613/s, stackable up to 3 effects (7839/s)
HoT, single (Mutagen) - HoT ~1000/s with ~7000 Burst heal under 20% Health
HoT, aoe, multieffect (Energy Orb) - HoT ~2328/s, can be summoned more at one time
HoT, aoe, 100%* uptime (Twilight Remedy 5-piece set effect) - HoT ~2588/s
HoT, aoe, ult cooldown (Absorption Shield) - HoT ~3774/s

Debuffs
Minor Lifesteal, aoe 100% uptime (Sanguine Altar) - ~762 Health/s
Minor Magickasteal, singe 100% uptime (Elemental Drain) - ~300 Magicka/s
Minor Mangle, 100% uptime (Pulsar) - Max Health -10%

Self Buffs
Major Resolve, 100% uptime (Boundless Storm) - Physical Resistance +5280
Major Ward, 100% uptime (Boundless Storm) - Spell Resistance +5280
Major Expedition, 100%* uptime (Boundless Storm) - Movement Speed +30%
Immovability, ~10% uptime (Potion of Immovability) - Immunity to knockback and disability effects
Major Prophecy, 100% uptime (Potion of Immovability) - Spell Ciritical Rating +2191
Major Intellect, 100% uptime (Potion of Immovability) - Magicka Recovery +20%
Major Mending, ~30% uptime (Heavy attack) - Healing Done +25%

Custos91

Summoning @Tasear to tell them that Khajiti Sorc healer is not a problem...

I could do it myself, but that one is better at it^^

QuebraRegra

VaranisArano wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Khajiit doesn't have a racial bonus on healing nor magicka. That's prob what's going on

Every time someone says something like that, it puts me in mind of this comic by Isriana: https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/TESO-Respect-Your-Healers-696152788

Comic under Spoiler for size

methinks someone is forgetting that heals can crit... BIG!

PrinceShroob

I'd drop Worm's Raiment for four-man content and use something else (personally, I use Alteration Mastery). Worm's Raiment is for trials and only one healer needs it.

Remember that you can boost your spell damage by slotting sorcerer class skills.

Here's what I use on my Argonian sorcerer healer. I'm not claiming that this is optimal, but it's been fine for normal dungeons and the vet dungeons I've tried:

Bar 1: Charged lightning staff with shock damage enchantment; Crushing Shock; Elemental Drain; Elemental Blockade; Empowered Ward; Summon Twilight Matriarch; Ice Comet.
Bar 2: Powered Restoration staff with absorb magicka enchantment; Healing Springs; Energy Orb; Combat Prayer; Healing Ward; Summon Twilight Matriarch; Replenishing Barrier (or Aggressive Warhorn if in a premade group).

I use Spell Power Cure and Alteration Mastery with the Apprentice Mundus Stone and spell damage enchantments on the jewelry.

I'm ambivalent about increases to raw healing output only, such as Blessed, the Ritual, or Healer's Habit. Usually it's a pretty small amount of extra healing and, in my opinion, not really worth it when running a cost/benefit analysis.

Sawzallz

I use rapid regen and I seem to be healing a lot I also use guard in dungeons note people didn't not even know what that is and the Dps would run away from the healer (me) then die and say great job healer, anyway I use rapid regen and heavy armor with the mending passive which increases resource gain from heavy attacks so I get around 7k mana from a single pull,

Finedaible

QuebraRegra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Khajiit doesn't have a racial bonus on healing nor magicka. That's prob what's going on

Every time someone says something like that, it puts me in mind of this comic by Isriana: https://isriana.deviantart.com/art/TESO-Respect-Your-Healers-696152788

Comic under Spoiler for size

methinks someone is forgetting that heals can crit... BIG!

Not disagreeing, but If you are referring to Carnage passive, ZoS removed spell crit from that passive. I really wish they'd revert that change because it made Khajiit pretty unique for magicka builds, and it wouldn't be op now since they nerfed crit Mundus Stones a while afterwards.

Jeremy

Saphayla wrote: »

Hello. My main character (CP 302) is a Khajiit Sorcerer, whose main job in group content is healing. For quite a while now I've been using 5 pieces of Healer's Habit + 5 pieces of Law of Julianos. I've been doing fine in Veteran Dungeons, and even did a few Normal Trials with... mixed results, but that had probably more to do with having to tend for 12 people instead of 4, which I might get better at with practice.

However, I've been interested in getting some serious "Best in slot" healing equipment, and so I got myself 5 pieces of Spell Power Cure + 5 pieces of Worm's Raiment.

Now, here comes the problem

This is what my stats look like with Healer's Habit and Law of Julianos. Healing Springs costs 2844 Magicka and heals 2346 Health.

Here are my stats with Spell Power Cure and Worm's Raiment:

As you can see, both Spell Damage and Spell Critical have gone down. Now, Healing Springs costs 2703 Magicka but heals only 2163 Health.

By the way, in both instances I'm using The Asylum's Restoration Staff, and the only buff I have on is from Bound Aegis. Here is my build in terms of skills and passives, by the way: eso-skills.com build

My Champion Points are used as follows:

THIEF
Sprinter - 5
Warlord - 20
Arcanist - 40
Healthy - 10
Tenacity - 5
Tumbling - 20

MAGE
Blessed - 75
Elfborn - 25

WARRIOR
Spell Shield - 20
Light Armor Focus - 20
Hardy - 20
Elemental Defender - 20
Quick Recovery - 10
Bastion - 5

I have never used a guide, mainly because most Healer guildes focus on Templars, and because I like to understand why I do what I do, instead of copying someone else. Using Power Surge and drinking an Essence of Spell Power potion increases my Spell Damage to 1969 and Spell Critical to 41%. However, from what I hear from my guild mates, those numbers are very low, so what am I doing wrong and what should I change about my build to become better?

I've read through this thread and thought I'd my two cents.

Firstly - I would not underestimate the value of high spell critical as a healer. It helps a lot, especially with the added CP bonus. So if you are having trouble healing I would consider boosting that to see if it helps you. It'll boost the power of your HoTs a good deal and the extra damage is always nice to have.

So I would make increasing your spell critical a priority over support skills and abilities.

Tasear

Narvuntien wrote: »

Sorc Healers give maximum up time of vulnerability and off balance to a group with all the lightning damage.
If groups start running wall of fire and mageblades as mag dps then that is going to be more important. I was worried about my sorc healer when the off balance changes were announced but then I realised that it produces a meta shift that actually makes them more useful.

I would not go healing without SPC.
Worm cult I am luke warm on.. I get that its good in trails but its terrible in 4 man content.

Twilight remedy I felt like I needed to bend my bar set up for more synergies than I would like, I still think the set is good but without shards and ritual it seems worse.

Our heal over time skills are lacking which makes Mending worse on us than temps and warden.

I went with the DSA Healers set. Because unlike Templar and warden we don't have mending already in our kit, also i can just buy it. I do wonder how it compares to Sanctuary though, Sanctuary might just be straight better.

How does master architect interact with overload? I think if I wanted a damage set master architect seems better than even the ever reliable Julianos.

In regards to master architect it doesn't work with overlord. Wardens or nightblades will like it.

Tasear

Seraphayel wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

I would switch your Julianos for Twilights Embrace, personnally. Helps with the HoTs you are lacking. If you arent into vet trials, I'd say you could even backbar your SPC on a s&board bar, get it to proc with orbs or rapid regeneration and add 2 pc Earthgore to the mix so you can heavy attack to gain ressources back with a safety net.

Khajit Sorc healer though is a very weird choice. You could make use of Bone Shield to take advantage of the extra stam you dont need.

Why Twilights Embrace? It only increases healing you receive - did I miss something?

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Twilight's+Embrace+Set

It's name, I swear! But pretty sure they meant Twlight Remedy.

Tasear

Custos91 wrote: »

Summoning @Tasear to tell them that Khajiti Sorc healer is not a problem...

I could do it myself, but that one is better at it^^

Thanks!

.... ...............
@Saphayla you made a great choice.
Sorc healers are quite fun, a bit gritty and highly adaptive. I assure you now you will be able to enjoy content hearts content.

@troomar is the official discipline explained sorc a bit unique with how we heal others. There's quite few ways to do it, but most interesting way is adding overlord to the bar thus giving you three bars. This how we have every buff in the game..well almost. Even so before this you have advantage in up time in off balance and concussion. This will naturally happen to most sorc healer because there's a entire skill line for it. Now this brings up interesting point hybrid healer such as bosmer or well khajit have advantage in setting off balance from dodging via champion passive. You also won't find yourself hurting to break free. ( Khajitt do vampire well with health recovery). You also have minior prophecy and minior intellect.

Okay now that I said how fun and powerful sorcs are then let's talk what you are doing wrong. First what skills are you using? Remember you are a sorc not a templer. So use skills to your advantage.

Gear wise, twlight remedy is best in slot for sorc healers. It provides buffs that goes well sorc and missing heals over time. Another set is nercropotance. This goes well sorc especially starting off to give more Magicka and better sustain, and general boost to dps. I don't personally think worm is the best fit for sorcs.

It you are having sustain issues using infused, if you are having trouble with healing per sec use precise for now and powered later. If you have issues dying use defending staff. Charged staff provides better usage for concussion and off balance.


Hmm, I think I covered it. Don't forget to come look at my sorc healer builds.

Narvuntien

Hmm my issue with SPC + Twlight remeady is that I either have to do Vet WGT or Vet MoL to get the rings.

... and I am not good enough....

I tried Vet WGT and gave up after an hour.. I tried Vet SO trail.. we gave up after 2 and half hours... and I have heard Vet MoL is worse. .

It doesn't help that everything I play is Off Meta.

Also I have spent all my transmutation stones on SPC (which is probably a good investment tbh).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Narvuntien wrote: »

Hmm my issue with SPC + Twlight remeady is that I either have to do Vet WGT or Vet MoL to get the rings.

... and I am not good enough....

I tried Vet WGT and gave up after an hour.. I tried Vet SO trail.. we gave up after 2 and half hours... and I have heard Vet MoL is worse. .

It doesn't help that everything I play is Off Meta.

Also I have spent all my transmutation stones on SPC (which is probably a good investment tbh).

You can get blue jewelry from norm mol and they are just as good as purple twilight . Or you can buy key fragments or farm them and use them on the wgt box. Both are easy. Or you could just run norm wgt and use the blue jewelry from that. The difference is so small that it hardly matters. And by the time it does you will be better at the game and be able to farm the purple.

Jura23

Do you have spell dmg enchant on your jewelry? That might help a bit.

xiZeroPointix

One thing to mention is that as a healer having a high crit chance will boost your healing by a significant margin. Heals can crit and they can crit very high. This is especially important to reduce the amount of magicka you use to heal and when u do heal it will be very efficient. Get your crit chance up and then pump up elborn for the extra crit healing julianos is a good crit set and so is the kitty as a race, but stay with the healing sets you just farmed and run the thief with a precise resto staff back bar and cahrged ligting staff front bar for the above mentioned concussed and off balance application..which after dragon bones will not be as important it only being 25% uptime on bosses...still important for trash adds but less viable overall. Vulnerability and flame status effect will be the new meta...frost well people arent ready for it yet but ice wall is op. As wierd as it may sound running twice born star with thief and shadow or mundus of your choosing, like the old days with mother sorrow will ensure almost 80 to 90 percent of your heals will crit which is 150% increase in your total healing not factoring in cp and other percent amps, but u loose a lot of group utility. Would be fun to try to say the least also having higher crit will increase your chances to proc monster sets. I say precise on the resto staff becuase the extra crit chance is far more efficent than powered unless you have 60% crit without.

troomar

Narvuntien wrote: »

Hmm my issue with SPC + Twlight remeady is that I either have to do Vet WGT or Vet MoL to get the rings.

You don't need purple jewelery to run vet trials. I don't have them either xD (Although I have gold jewelries from sets like Mending or Infallible Mage, but I don't use these sets, so I'm running blue SPC)

Narvuntien wrote: »

... and I am not good enough....

Maybe. Firstly, the success in a trial is a team's work, not healer's. But if you fail (as a team), you should know if it was your fault or not. Or if your performance was below or on par. That's why it's important to use add-ons such as Combat Metric. After each boss battle, look at the statistics. Try to remember what your uptime for important buffs was, what your HPS was (it's important for your healing / recovery ratio) and what targets you had to heal the most. Repeat these tests on a skeleton. Because when you fail, you can recognize what the problem was. Try to record your trials / vet DLC dungeons, watch them and learn what you did wrong and what not.

I remember my first run in HoF ever. We managed to get to the final boss after so many hours. I was quite exhausted, but I could perform my role without problems. And then we wiped during the execute phase. We called it a day and went to sleep. I watched the recording next day and immediately saw the problem - I brought the aoe from the boss to DPS stacked behind the boss. It was so obvious, but I didn't see it on live. Next time we went there I didn't make this mistake again.

Sawzallz

I noticed I heal people 11,000 and others 6,000 i think It's cause of heal received they target being healed.

Narvuntien

I wasn't on my sorc healer...I am still leveling up her skills and I was grinding gear.... I was on my Magdk DPS... with her 22K dps. I have tried there is no way to improve that when I have 300 ping. I have a lot less dps in actual trails because I run out of mag using harness magicka and have to stop to dodge skills. So I just sit there and heavy attack through most fights.

Well I have a full set of SPC in divines now, thanks transmutation stones.. I just need a TR necklace and a TR lightning staff. (I have a resto) and a belt (or get a SPC belt). I could gold dump into Necro I guess, I'll probably want it later anyway.

The vet SO fail was probably the tanks fault they were new.. but we also had terrible RNG on some of the mechanics and some bugs. I must of been tired or something for the vet wgt because I just couldn't get my head around the planar inhibitor fight, have to wait until it turns blue then take aggro from the tank for a bit.. while also closing all the portals....aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... too many things I have to pay attention to.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Narvuntien do Normal white gold tower. There is no reason to do vet if all you are doing is farming gear. Same with the trails. You get the same gear but in blue and armor you can upgrade and jewelry quality doesnt really matter.

Saphayla

Narvuntien wrote: »

I must of been tired or something for the vet wgt because I just couldn't get my head around the planar inhibitor fight, have to wait until it turns blue then take aggro from the tank for a bit.. while also closing all the portals....aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... too many things I have to pay attention to.

The more you do it the easier it becomes. One time I had to heal my allies, heal myself through the immense damage because I was engulfed in blue flames for ~10 seconds and close the portals, and yet noone died. Granted, that was on Normal, but i did vet WGT and didn't have much problem there (other than the consecutive stuns and status effects during the Molag Kena fight).
If you're doing it on Veteran, I think there is a general rule of thumb to not take aggro while you're the one closing the portals. Remember - other than you and the tank, there are two other people in the dungeon. If you have to close the portals, let someone else worry about the Inhibitor, because if you try to take on everything at once you might end up messing something up and dying, leaving the team with one dead teammate and with adds spewing out of the portals.

Also, if you're just looking for armor and not jewelry, do Normal. I did Normal WGT probably 20 or so times to get all my Spell Power Cure pieces. I then had enough Key Fragments to go to the treasure place in WGT (I entered it on veteran) and got a purple SPC ring from it. And even if you're looking for jewelry, if it's something tough like Bloodrot Forge, the difference between blue and purple jewelry is very small, so there's no need to do veteran

Tasear

Sawzallz wrote: »

I noticed I heal people 11,000 and others 6,000 i think It's cause of heal received they target being healed.

Sounds like breath of life. Other person is half the heal.

xiZeroPointix

Tasear wrote: »

Sawzallz wrote: »

I noticed I heal people 11,000 and others 6,000 i think It's cause of heal received they target being healed.

Sounds like breath of life. Other person is half the heal.

His heal crit....you will do a standard amount of healing the 11000 was a crit number the 6000 was non crit. Boost ypur crit 30 is to low to be efficient

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Sawzallz wrote: »

I noticed I heal people 11,000 and others 6,000 i think It's cause of heal received they target being healed.

Sounds like breath of life. Other person is half the heal.

His heal crit....you will do a standard amount of healing the 11000 was a crit number the 6000 was non crit. Boost ypur crit 30 is to low to be efficient

Healers general only have 32% or 42% if they are running inner light or spell crit pits. this is fine.

exeeter702

Lynx7386 wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Here is what's important as a healer. If you are doing both, then you are doing fine. Ignore the naysayers and trolls

1. Keeping people alive from non-one-shot mechanics

2. Having near 100% uptimes on the buffs you provide to the group

Hard to argue with those points. If you fail at step one, all the buff sets and unique class abilities dont mean squat. The main problem is that list off buffs is pretty short for a khajiit sorc healer. Sorcs basically have 3 things that arguably help the group when healing. They have reduced cost of ultimates, which might help warhorn uptime a bit, they give minor prophecy to the group with dark magic, but so does really any sorc DPS, and they have a pretty good burst heal, but that is tied to your pet which can be risky, especially in a trial. Compare that to what a Templar and Warden can offer and its pretty laughable, but again, if you are only concerned about step one, you can heal pretty much all content in this game with a single resto bar on any class.

One other sorc buff for the group, minor intellect if running empowered ward, but again could be covered by a sorc dps. I'd guess that the dark magic minor prophecy buff is probably less likely to be coming from a healer but setups can vary.
Since I'm newer to this though, what do Templars and Wardens offer? I don't know Warden at all, but for Templar I can see - burst heal that is pet independent, minor sorcery, ultimate gain for allies being healed, and a negative effect cleanse that is cheaper than Purge, or am I missing something else? And is part of the argument that sorc healer is redundant with sorc dps, whereas one is less likely to find magplar dps or ?

Wardens provide minor intellect and endurance, minor fortitude, major ward and resolve, minor lifesteal, and major protection (via ultimate) to their group.

Every healer if they really want to, has access to minor lifesteal, but its just as rare as a warden running vines in trials so the comparison is pointless. I dont believe wardens have minor fortitude, you must be thinking of minor toughness, which is a class passive and not exclusive to warden healers any more than minor prophecy is exclusive to sorc healers. Group wide major ward and resolve is a nice utility but reduntant as most groups rarely build around the afforded ability bar space that it provides, the same applies to frost cloaks nearest cousin, igneous weapons.

And while its easy to say most healers are slamming warhorns on CD and it may be reaching here but major protection is a nice buff for sure, but so is having the only way in the entire game of providing major berserk to an ally via ultimate.

The argument between class utiltiy is always skewed in favor of whoever is making said argument. The available tools for each is hardly as lopsided as many try to claim.

DoctorESO

Sawzallz wrote: »

I noticed I heal people 11,000 and others 6,000 i think It's cause of heal received they target being healed.

An extra 5,000 on top of the 6,000 (for a total of 11,000) amounts to 83.3% extra healing taken. Are you sure it isn't critical heals you are referring to?