BALANCE! What are your thoughts on balancing PvE and PvP?

Apache_Kid

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Seperate the two, or dont bother.

This has long been the consensus, and the correct one, and ZOS's bullcrap excuses as to why they refuse to (AKA, they dont want people to use different gearsets, and they allready do) is just to cover up the fact they either cant, or wont.

Personally? My forays into For Honor, which end in it geting removed from my Uplay account, make it very clear to me that I have no interest in PVP. So please. Stop leting it bleed into the balance of PVE for those of us who simply dont enjoy the activity.

The excuses for not doing it have been particularly rich.

Tyr_Fury

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Tyr_Fury wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Tyr_Fury wrote: »

well it's really simple to satisfy both sides, really. Guild Wars 2 made it properly. They split certain skills that behave differently in PvP and PvE and they made them switch as you change the game mode (e.g. if you go PvP it changes what it does from PvE) and they're balanced separately. so If a skill is OP in PvP they will tweak how it affects PvP and nerf it, while PvE remaining the same if it's optimal.

to give an example: . https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy

Wow! what a novel ******* concept!!!

what made you butthurt?

The ZoS devs who refuse to spend the time to balance the game separately.

I actually gave you the insightful on your post because I thought that the way GW2 did it was great. And my comment was like a sarcastic "Wow! i can't believe someone thought of that!"

I want ZoS to balance the game separately like it should be. I was not trying to be snarky toward you, only ZoS.

Ah, I apologize then for my attitude, it appeared as sarcasm towards my comparison glad we understand each other though!

Yeah, I was hyped about subbing but now I'm losing interest in the game tbh, and I've been playing for 3 months. I might go back to GW2 for a while until something changes..

Jhalin

They absolutely should be balanced separately. The fact that ZOS is incapable of doing so, going so far as to have the devs call it "too hard" (on ESO Live, it's documented), just assured us that they are a very poorly run company that cares very little about the players.

And no, caring about our wallets doesn't count.

SirCritical

You know, it's about PvP, that's the only stage where balance is always an issue. I don't really know for now, around what they're "balancing" PvP, since earlier they nerfed damage (see proc sets critting), because the dmg for high. Then they nerfed block (and again, and again) because survivalability was an issue. Now it's damage's turn to be nerfed again. Ridiculous.

OrdoHermetica

I've played other MMOs that integrate PvE and PvP fairly well; the old Secret World, for all its faults, was fairly painless when it came from transitioning from PvE to PvP. Sure, you had to swap out a few skills and maybe change up your equipment a little bit, but because of the faction war PvP gear, you could be perfectly effective and even competitive in PvP with a PvE character. The gameplay itself, too, was reasonably similar - obviously, yes, moving, thinking PCs are different than NPCs,
but the mechanics worked as you expected and what was effective in PvE was reasonably effective in PvP, and vice versa.
(That may be the case with the reboot, too, but I haven't played it yet, so I can't say.)

But in ESO, PvE and PvP gameplay is so radically different at this point that I'm not sure how they'd address it now without completely alienating one of the two groups. If they'd focused more on keeping them similar from the beginning, that'd be one thing, but at this point... I think they kinda worked themselves into a corner, and I honestly don't see an easy way out.

MehrunesFlagon

Narvuntien wrote: »

Have a PvE morph and a PVP morph or separate CP trees one for PVP and one for PVE.

That would separate PVE and PVP without having to change the functionality of any skills.

You can also have small changes to skills such as what is with Ambush... in that it is only a snare on players.
Ability does this in PVE and this similar slightly different thing in PVP. But I wouldn't go overboard with it just stun into a snare level.

As far as I'm concerned ambush could be turned into another dot that doesn't even resemble the current skill.In pve.

Vanthras79

Keep them seperate, keep them safe!

umagon

One the best ways I have seen this handled in another game was when the developers created something called “equal footing”. What this buff did basically is make all items output powder equal in pvp areas. This allowed them to make gear for pve and have increasing scales of power for vertical progression without having to worry about it effecting pvp.

To make this understandable in the sense of eso; it would be like having a buff that made all fine, superior, and epic gear into legendary quality. Followed by allowing everyone to spend points up whatever the maximum champion point cap is at the time. While also ensuring that players damage output, healing output, and damage mitigation could not exceed a set threshold.

Lotka

I want devs to stop applying patches that change the balance when you can just change your build. It screws everything up when you have the perfect build and have to change EVERYTHING and grind all over again.

Nobody got time fo that

jnelson1182

Narvuntien wrote: »

Have a PvE morph and a PVP morph or separate CP trees one for PVP and one for PVE.

That would separate PVE and PVP without having to change the functionality of any skills.

You can also have small changes to skills such as what is with Ambush... in that it is only a snare on players.
Ability does this in PVE and this similar slightly different thing in PVP. But I wouldn't go overboard with it just stun into a snare level.

I think this is a good idea and would probably do a lot to help with the many players screaming for this change or that change after every patch, its like one update makes one group happy while the next makes that same group complain again. From playing wow for quite some time one thing I learned is that if you are going to invest your time into playing a game of this style you have to grind thru those updates that may change thing for good or bad until the next one an hope if last one hurt u the newest will help.
I don't like the idea of having to change so much stuff when switching between pvp and pave, it would be much easier to switch set

KeiruNicrom

Have every skill act differently depending on whether in pvp or pve zone. Specifically give us the ability to have 2 loadouts per character. One pve the other pvp. Skills in the pve loadouts would have different damage, healing, and cost values than the pvp loadout ones

SirCritical

Vanthras79 wrote: »

Keep them seperate, keep them safe!

I can think about a solution: give all the NPC mobs a class. Or not just a class, but create whole fake characters. These will be our enemies. With the same HP like player characters. Imagine a magicka based dragonknight skeever with Flame Lash

Then you can start balance PvP and PvE together.

ccfeeling

Yes , GW2 is doing great atm and I play both games .

Inhuman003

It would be nice to have a new server for PVP that is World PVP of Tamriel where you do all the quests that you have already done from PVE but if you joined the PVP server you are taking a risk of being ganked, and the benefits of playing in this PVP server of full Tamriel is you get 800 gold of a quest or a 1000 gold of a quest Plus and the quests are repeatable they have a 24 hour cooldown only if we have this type of PVP in Elder Scrolls Online no one won't be able to complain about it they'll be fair to both sides. And all the towns are safe zones just a few.

Minyassa

Either make 'em completely separate, or balance everything around PvE. PvP is for people who want to test themselves against other people within the framework of the game, and learning to utilize what the game gives them to work with. Part of that challenge should be using what's provided for PvE as PvP skills and not trying to change everything to make it easier for that challenge.

kongkim

It's hard to balance. But it's the same game and I do both PvE and PvP and hope they aim for en middle.
I would hate the idea that they try and balance it separately. I like my skills to more or less do the same.

Azurya

Datthaw wrote: »

This is the biggest problem in this game, the wants and the needs of pvp and pve players are very different. One group cries for nerfs and it ruins the other groups play style. This has been happening patch after patch.

There has to be a medium that keeps everyone happy. Because every patch it's the same broken record, pvp and pve players blaming each other for nerfs.

Want to get some thoughts on this topic together on one page.

This game needs an own server were PvP is happening! There can be the stats for every set different from PVE-server.
and they can make ppl immortal, so nobody can complain anymore that she/he gets killed by something which is ofc OP

the best solution for all troubles PvP is causing!

Inhuman003

Azurya wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

This is the biggest problem in this game, the wants and the needs of pvp and pve players are very different. One group cries for nerfs and it ruins the other groups play style. This has been happening patch after patch.

There has to be a medium that keeps everyone happy. Because every patch it's the same broken record, pvp and pve players blaming each other for nerfs.

Want to get some thoughts on this topic together on one page.

This game needs an own server were PvP is happening! There can be the stats for every set different from PVE-server.
and they can make ppl immortal, so nobody can complain anymore that she/he gets killed by something which is ofc OP

the best solution for all troubles PvP is causing!

I 100% agree with you about a PVP server of its own.

xeNNNNN

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I've long felt they should be balanced separately (in all MMOs that have PvP and PvE). I realise it's extra work but boy, nothing like getting nerf'd because of an issue on "the other side".

Pretty much this ^

The simple truth is that the game is now in such a state that no matter what you do something is broken, which sucks. albeit balance will never be perfect but a vast majority of problems we face in pvp and pve could of been avoided.

I have always said to do the following;

Ability 1

PvE - X does Y to monsters, creatures and men and mer
PvP - X does Y to Enemy Players

Same with passives.

(that is a very simplistic way of me saying how it should be and I do mean VERY simplistic).

So long as ZoS continues too adhere too this ridiculous "seemless transition" policy in the game we will never have better gameplay or better balance. So long as one interferes with how the other is played this game will be a mess and the fact that they even want there too be a seemless transition policy for gameplay in pve and pvp is insulting too all of us even the new player. A vast majority of people are far more intelligent than the devs are willing too admit and I find their balance ethic extremely insulting as a result. The idea that a player cant figure out that X does this in PvE but X does something else in PvP as well is just ridiculous.

Motherball

Balanced pvp in a rpg? LOL

Saint_Bud

There are to less pvpers left that the game needs a pvp balance. Sry to say that, but go to any campain, beside primetime its emty and moast of the pugs are not at cp cap on vivec (eu pc).

Lotka

Saint_Bud wrote: »

There are to less pvpers left that the game needs a pvp balance. Sry to say that, but go to any campain, beside primetime its emty and moast of the pugs are not at cp cap on vivec (eu pc).

Go to NA PC

SaintSubwayy

Taonnor wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Balance all skills arround pve.
Tweak certain skills and stats via battlespirut for pvp, and we're fine.

If something gets to op/weak in pvp nerf/buff it via battlespirit.

If something gets to op/weak in pve buff/ nerf it on the baseskills and adjust battlespirit.

Problem solved

And i say, balance around pvp, remove battlespirit and adjust pve. The reason is, that the environment is doing what i want and nothing more...

to give PVE a version of Battlespirit, works also, its ust the other way arround

fact is they need to balance pve and pvp separatly, how they do it isnt the point

Kuramas9tails

Balance them separate. Tooltips should show damage wise for PVP content and not just PVE.

Tommy_The_Gun

Just an example:
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Teleport+Strike
NB skill has something like this:
"If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned."

As far as I know there are only like 3 skills in the game that have slightly different effect against players and different against NPCs. So it is possible to balance PvP and PvE "slightly" separately.

Biro123

I think ZOS do a pretty good job of balancing both.

The single biggest problem with it are the players who always assume that nerfs to their playstyle are the fault of the other and simply cannot comprehend that it was actually their own playstyle that needed the nerf..

xbobx

its not possible to balance both

Luckylancer

If i cant use a skill on boht pve & pvp and get similar results, pvp and pve are seperate. Most aoe and dots are weak at pvp, bursts weak at pve. There is disparity now.

Seperating 2 modes' balancing can close the gap. Negate is good example. Aoe stun eould be BRUTAL for pvp and aoe silence would be joke for pve. This close the gap between pvp and pve.

This will save time too. A nerf or buff wont cause problem at other side and require extra work. We can play with bow and 2h pve builds.

Datolite

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Balance all skills arround pve.
Tweak certain skills and stats via battlespirut for pvp, and we're fine.

Yes! This except the other way around.

LittlePinkDot

PVE exclusive skill trees could be added with chapters or DLC. We need high burst damage aoe abilities in pve so I wont have to do mind number rotations for DoTs. I hate the DoT meta in pve and its why I have no desire to do vet dugeons.