Help against magdk

RighteousBacon

Alright I’m a stamina Templar on Xbox NA and I struggle killing some of the mag dk’s o run into. I have good magicka sustain for a stamplar so I cleanse their dots a lot. I have shuffle to give a little bit of snare immunity, but when they fossilize me and line up a burst especially with v scoria I just have to use so many resources to recover. Any tips even though this is likely just an l2p issue

Sixty5

Didn't you hear? Mag DK's have been nerfed into the ground and are the most garbage class in the game!

In all seriousness though, they are an utter pain to fight against given their control over your character through Talons and Stuns. The best way I have found to fight one is to create range, and stay mobile until I have an Immov potion up, and then go as aggro as I can to put pressure on them.

This can be hard given how durable DK's can be, but once you have the initiative in a fight, it becomes harder for them to control you, as they have to use abilities defensively.

The other advice is to bring a friend. The class has zero escapes and very limited AOE potential in most cases, so beyond Talon spam, there isn't too much they can do when you gang up on them.

GeorgeBlack

So to deal with this class you need to bring One friend.
Whereas other classes post videos of experienced 1v5.
And you make fun of people complaining about the destruction of the class?
I dont even main mDK

Sixty5

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

So to deal with this class you need to bring One friend.
Whereas other classes post videos of experienced 1v5.
And you make fun of people complaining about the destruction of the class?
I dont even main mDK

No, what I am saying is that if you fight a Mag DK 1v1 they are going to be at a massive advantage, so if you want to reliably beat a Mag DK, the best course of action is to bring a friend.

And yes I am making fun of people complaining that the class is ruined in PVP, especially considering how strong they are. Zaan was a disgusting addition to the game for Mag DK's. A full Zaan Proc will deal something like 85% of my Stam Sorcs health pool in damage.

GeorgeBlack

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

Sixty5

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

And what does that say about the class when one of the best forms of counterplay is to outnumber them?

GeorgeBlack

With only One extra enemy?
What does that say about classes that survive and kill 5 good enemies?

VaranisArano

Sixty5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

And what does that say about the class when one of the best forms of counterplay is to outnumber them?

To be entirely fair, having a friend is a pretty good counter to any class. And in Cyrodiil, you can always call a friend.

It sounds to me like the OP is having issues in two areas. One, the OP is taking a lot of DOT damage and thus having to Purge it. Two, that puts the OP into a bind once the MagDK lines up their burst.

I'd be interested in other ideas for dealing with those problems. I'm inclined to recommend using line of sight to try to avoid being hit with DOTs whenever possible and staying mobile, where the DK skillset is lacking. Does anyone know a good way to quickly escape the fossilize. thus escaping the incoming burst combo?

Another idea is to practice dueling MagDKs, leanring how to counter them and keep up the pressure.

Sixty5

VaranisArano wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sixty5 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

And what does that say about the class when one of the best forms of counterplay is to outnumber them?

To be entirely fair, having a friend is a pretty good counter to any class. And in Cyrodiil, you can always call a friend.

It sounds to me like the OP is having issues in two areas. One, the OP is taking a lot of DOT damage and thus having to Purge it. Two, that puts the OP into a bind once the MagDK lines up their burst.

I'd be interested in other ideas for dealing with those problems. I'm inclined to recommend using line of sight to try to avoid being hit with DOTs whenever possible and staying mobile, where the DK skillset is lacking. Does anyone know a good way to quickly escape the fossilize. thus escaping the incoming burst combo?

Another idea is to practice dueling MagDKs, leanring how to counter them and keep up the pressure.

The reason I say bringing a friend is effective VS a Mag DK is more effective is that compared to something like a Stam Warden who can Sub+Dawnbreaker+Reverse Slice multiple people at once, a Mag DK can only really burn down one target at a time (Discounting Take Flight cheese)

Personally, I am a Stam Sorc player, so I can only really speak from that perspective, when fighting a DK.

The first thing I try to do when facing a DK is to create distance so I am out of Talons range, given that when you are trapped in talons, you are working at either getting out of them, or simply staying alive, meaning the DK has no pressure on them, and is free to apply Dots, buffs or whip you.

Secondly, you need to gain a pressure advantage in the fight. When you force a DK to play defensively, they don't have the time to control your movement to the same degree, and keep damage up on you. I find either an Immovable potion or use of an ult to be the best tool for the job here, as they give you a couple of seconds to really put the pressure on.

From there, you can either try for the kill onto the DK, or go back to creating distance and kiting. Mag DK lacks mobility skills outside of Chains (bad) and Leap (Ultimate), so once you are outside of the 8 meter range where they can CC you with no counterplay, then you can start planning the rest of the fight.

If I am up against a 30k+ Hp DK, the it is usually at this point that I will say screw it, and move on. I can't kill them on my own in a reasonable amount of time, and if any other enemy shows up, I die. So I will either run away like the little girl I am, or I will continue to kite and look for some assistance.

DK's, and especially Mag DK's are still the class that gives me the most trouble to fight myself, as they are extremely good at turning any fight into a drawn out one where they have the advantage. Running a more brawly setup with Heroic Slash and Reverb Bash has helped somewhat, but I still find that you don't want to spend extended periods of time next to a DK, especially if they have Zaan.

GeorgeBlack

As a stamsorc all you have to do os heal through dmg.. and since Zos has dmg and heal buffed by the same stats... well....

ak_pvp

MagDK in a 1v1 is pretty disgusting lmao. This new update as only strengthened that for a few builds since they have nearly 100% uptime on exploiter. Free 10% damage. And most can use whip more commonly. And its possible to permablock much easier in duels. (Though also hurt some areas. Talons being pretty *** IMO since it just means your whip will be dodged, and any builds using block enchant are a lot weaker)

Stamplar shouldn't struggle too much. Use FM if you can deal with less healing. Its better than shuffle by quite a bit and shuts down really any use of talons. If you do get talonsed, roll/purge. It will either cause the flame lash to not set you offbalance, or the power lash. Expect and counter the fossilize every 7s.

Use a disease enchant to defile them. The heal from DB costs a whole lot and when its healing nearly nothing its easy to force a turtley embers spam. Purge the dots quick enough and you won't have to deal with any fight resetting 15k embers heals.

Use dots+POTL to wear them away, especially bleeds. Jabs occasionally to wear the block stamina away, but tbh it won't do much against a blocky opponent.

Whilst this generally doesn't matter much in duels, a DKs sustain is pretty bad cause of expensive abilites. If you use siphoner and poisons (like a dirty zerger ) and disease on one bar. Then you can quite easily make a DK cry, at the expense of losing some OW strength.

ak_pvp

Sixty5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

And what does that say about the class when one of the best forms of counterplay is to outnumber them?

To be entirely fair, having a friend is a pretty good counter to any class. And in Cyrodiil, you can always call a friend.

It sounds to me like the OP is having issues in two areas. One, the OP is taking a lot of DOT damage and thus having to Purge it. Two, that puts the OP into a bind once the MagDK lines up their burst.

I'd be interested in other ideas for dealing with those problems. I'm inclined to recommend using line of sight to try to avoid being hit with DOTs whenever possible and staying mobile, where the DK skillset is lacking. Does anyone know a good way to quickly escape the fossilize. thus escaping the incoming burst combo?

Another idea is to practice dueling MagDKs, leanring how to counter them and keep up the pressure.

The reason I say bringing a friend is effective VS a Mag DK is more effective is that compared to something like a Stam Warden who can Sub+Dawnbreaker+Reverse Slice multiple people at once, a Mag DK can only really burn down one target at a time (Discounting Take Flight cheese)

Personally, I am a Stam Sorc player, so I can only really speak from that perspective, when fighting a DK.

The first thing I try to do when facing a DK is to create distance so I am out of Talons range, given that when you are trapped in talons, you are working at either getting out of them, or simply staying alive, meaning the DK has no pressure on them, and is free to apply Dots, buffs or whip you.

Secondly, you need to gain a pressure advantage in the fight. When you force a DK to play defensively, they don't have the time to control your movement to the same degree, and keep damage up on you. I find either an Immovable potion or use of an ult to be the best tool for the job here, as they give you a couple of seconds to really put the pressure on.

From there, you can either try for the kill onto the DK, or go back to creating distance and kiting. Mag DK lacks mobility skills outside of Chains (bad) and Leap (Ultimate), so once you are outside of the 8 meter range where they can CC you with no counterplay, then you can start planning the rest of the fight.

If I am up against a 30k+ Hp DK, the it is usually at this point that I will say screw it, and move on. I can't kill them on my own in a reasonable amount of time, and if any other enemy shows up, I die. So I will either run away like the little girl I am, or I will continue to kite and look for some assistance.

DK's, and especially Mag DK's are still the class that gives me the most trouble to fight myself, as they are extremely good at turning any fight into a drawn out one where they have the advantage. Running a more brawly setup with Heroic Slash and Reverb Bash has helped somewhat, but I still find that you don't want to spend extended periods of time next to a DK, especially if they have Zaan.

Not wrong generally. Distance and mobility can help against talons/foss/ember usage, which is a DK clutch in duels. But IMO zaan is trash. It breaks way too easily in any real setting, and if 1vXing is almost useless since gg sticking to a target for long enough when being beaten on. DK also does have potential multi target pressure. Engulfing+deep breath+talons+leap worked well in the past. Though not so much now since god damn is it expensive and talons will probably be immune in the stam meta.

Sixty5

ak_pvp wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

You just said all you need to do to beat a mDK is bring One friend. That's all it takes if the mDK is skilled.

And what does that say about the class when one of the best forms of counterplay is to outnumber them?

To be entirely fair, having a friend is a pretty good counter to any class. And in Cyrodiil, you can always call a friend.

It sounds to me like the OP is having issues in two areas. One, the OP is taking a lot of DOT damage and thus having to Purge it. Two, that puts the OP into a bind once the MagDK lines up their burst.

I'd be interested in other ideas for dealing with those problems. I'm inclined to recommend using line of sight to try to avoid being hit with DOTs whenever possible and staying mobile, where the DK skillset is lacking. Does anyone know a good way to quickly escape the fossilize. thus escaping the incoming burst combo?

Another idea is to practice dueling MagDKs, leanring how to counter them and keep up the pressure.

The reason I say bringing a friend is effective VS a Mag DK is more effective is that compared to something like a Stam Warden who can Sub+Dawnbreaker+Reverse Slice multiple people at once, a Mag DK can only really burn down one target at a time (Discounting Take Flight cheese)

Personally, I am a Stam Sorc player, so I can only really speak from that perspective, when fighting a DK.

The first thing I try to do when facing a DK is to create distance so I am out of Talons range, given that when you are trapped in talons, you are working at either getting out of them, or simply staying alive, meaning the DK has no pressure on them, and is free to apply Dots, buffs or whip you.

Secondly, you need to gain a pressure advantage in the fight. When you force a DK to play defensively, they don't have the time to control your movement to the same degree, and keep damage up on you. I find either an Immovable potion or use of an ult to be the best tool for the job here, as they give you a couple of seconds to really put the pressure on.

From there, you can either try for the kill onto the DK, or go back to creating distance and kiting. Mag DK lacks mobility skills outside of Chains (bad) and Leap (Ultimate), so once you are outside of the 8 meter range where they can CC you with no counterplay, then you can start planning the rest of the fight.

If I am up against a 30k+ Hp DK, the it is usually at this point that I will say screw it, and move on. I can't kill them on my own in a reasonable amount of time, and if any other enemy shows up, I die. So I will either run away like the little girl I am, or I will continue to kite and look for some assistance.

DK's, and especially Mag DK's are still the class that gives me the most trouble to fight myself, as they are extremely good at turning any fight into a drawn out one where they have the advantage. Running a more brawly setup with Heroic Slash and Reverb Bash has helped somewhat, but I still find that you don't want to spend extended periods of time next to a DK, especially if they have Zaan.

Not wrong generally. Distance and mobility can help against talons/foss/ember usage, which is a DK clutch in duels. But IMO zaan is trash. It breaks way too easily in any real setting, and if 1vXing is almost useless since gg sticking to a target for long enough when being beaten on. DK also does have potential multi target pressure. Engulfing+deep breath+talons+leap worked well in the past. Though not so much now since god damn is it expensive and talons will probably be immune in the stam meta.

Yeah, the Zaan thing is weird.

On one hand, vs multiple opponents, it is pretty bad, and Blood Spawn is going to be so much better. On the other hand, if you get caught with your pants down by a DK with Zaan, it is going to be really painful.
After the first couple of encounters with Zaan users, I've learned to just streak as soon as I see the beam connect. Seeing [Zaan 8700] in death recap has made me a tad cautious about the set.

And the thing with Multi Target pressure is that most DK's aren't running that setup, and prefer to focus down one person at a time, at least from my experience, unlike literally every Stam build that runs Dawnbreaker and Reverse Slice.

GreenhaloX

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Alright I’m a stamina Templar on Xbox NA and I struggle killing some of the mag dk’s o run into. I have good magicka sustain for a stamplar so I cleanse their dots a lot. I have shuffle to give a little bit of snare immunity, but when they fossilize me and line up a burst especially with v scoria I just have to use so many resources to recover. Any tips even though this is likely just an l2p issue

Oh yeah, MagDK can be rough, with its ability to spam out Talons and Fossilize; however, a StamPlar is also brutal. I'm 2h/bow StamPlar, so I have good healing support from Resolving Vigor and Forward Momentum and brutal damage dealers with Biting Jabs and Executioner. A StamPlar also have good support from Javelin, Power of the Light (or that other healing morph), and Total Dark or Unstable Core. As a 2h/bow, you also have access to Stampede as the gap closer and Poison Injection or Lethal Arrows for brutal support damages. You need to have higher stam into the higher 30s and use tri-food. You also need to have majicka up there in the mid-teen or more. When the Talons are thrown on you, you have to roll out as quickly as you can, as you know the Lashes are coming. If you can't readily roll out, you gonna have to keep block up against those lashes. Unfortunately, with Fossilize, you have no choice but to wait it out.

As most, if not all MagDK are also likely 2h, they have to access to Forward Momentum and would negate the knock down of the Javelin, but blast it out anyways. It still does good damage, even though, it may not cause the knockdown. If it does knock the other down (better yet), and if you're 2h, hit Stampede, then Biting Jabs and Executioner religiously. Even before I attack, I'll drop them with Power of the Light and Total Dark. Blast them with Poison Injection when you can and also hit Forward Momentum and Vigor, as you can (if you're 2h.) Get heavy attack in there; combo it with Biting Jabs and/or animation cancel with Executioner. Be prepare to roll from the Talons and just keep hitting with Javelin, the Light and Total Dark. Also, don't forget to buff with Restoring Focus.

Try giving heavy armor a shot. A lot of StamPlars are running heavy in PvP. Heck, the majority of toons are running heavy; even damn healers are running around in heavy. You get more spell/phys resistance, which more spells resist the better against a MagDK, and you still have good overall weapon damage. You also want to plus up Ironclad (around 20%) and Thick-Skin (at least 9% or more), and Elemental Defender (at least 9% or more), as damages from a MagDK are both direct and DoT; particularly from those Lashes and Burning Embers. If you're DW, use those Shrouded Daggers and Deadly Cloak. Yeah, it's always a good fight against a MagDK for me. It's who gets who first in taking down the resources, being able to mitigate CC/snares, healing and who gets the better when one is cced/snared or in a bind. Otherwise, like others have commented, double-team or zerg him. No one survives a 1vzerg. Ha ha

Minalan

If you’re opponent is a vampire, zaan will probably end them. Normal people should be able to escape a fossil, talon, power lash, zaan proc. But remember you’re chasing them, so zaan is going to hit longer than you think.

Subversus

I found that dropping vamp increased my survivability against magdks tremendously. Previous to curing it, sword and board tank builds felt like I was fighting @DDuke 's massive damage build. Post curing it I really don't feel threatened by magdks anymore, not even by those that focus heavily on damage. My biggest advice if you're having trouble with em is to drop vamp (completely).

Gorrest

As you a Stamina Temp, you have an easy time against Mag Dks because of Purge. But most of the time any damage you will do will be healed up. So you have to combo one shot them with WB(Jav if dual Wield)>Dawnbreaker>Jabs with a Power of the Light Proc when they get CC from your WB/Jav.